MCU X-Men - Part 1

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It is not necessary to change Jean's race specifically. But to stay true to the spirit of the xmen comics the cast must be diverse imo. Now there are many members of the xmen who are minorities, but most of the major, original characters who the films will likely focus on are white. Ergo Racebending seems likely.
I agree, the cast should be diverse but the main X-Men should stay their original race they were in the comics. And no, it does not. Because Marvel doesn't race swap main heroes.
 
I agree, the cast should be diverse but the main X-Men should stay their original race they were in the comics. And no, it does not. Because Marvel doesn't race swap main heroes.

Well, maybe they should start. You agree that the cast should be diverse, but want the main xmen to remain the same race. Given that the MCU xmen films will likely focus quite a bit on those main xmen (rather than going for more obscure characters,) do you not see the contradiction?
 
Well, maybe they should start. You agree that the cast should be diverse, but want the main xmen to remain the same race. Given that the MCU xmen films will likely focus quite a bit on those main xmen (rather than going for more obscure characters,) do you not see the contradiction?
How is that a contradiction? Having a diverse cast = Focusing on the core members. The cast can still be diverse by having a plethora of multiracial mutants both in Xavier's school and the Brotherhood/any other evil mutants. Having the main 6 (whom wouldn't all be white) doesn't change the fact that Scott, Jean, Logan, Charles etc would be complimented by a diverse cast
 
So in a fictional world where being born with green hair is fine, a non-white actress with red hair is where you draw the line? K

YG9RTE7.jpg

Oh yeah, so diverse.

Jean should look like your avatar, only NOT drawn by a talentless hack.

Great job, you found a picture where five of the characters are literally duplicates of some of the other characters. And yet, still diverse! Unless you don't count Jews and furry blue people as being minorities?
 
How is that a contradiction? Having a diverse cast = Focusing on the core members. The cast can still be diverse by having a plethora of multiracial mutants both in Xavier's school and the Brotherhood/any other evil mutants. Having the main 6 (whom wouldn't all be white) doesn't change the fact that Scott, Jean, Logan, Charles etc would be complimented by a diverse cast

It needs to be more than background extras being diverse. It's about time we started seeing more major characters who are not white. If you have a diverse supporting cast but the main guys are still all white it undermines the entire message.
 
It needs to be more than background extras being diverse. It's about time we started seeing more major characters who are not white. If you have a diverse supporting cast but the main guys are still all white it undermines the entire message.
So does that mean Spider-Man: Homecoming's diversity meant nothing because Peter Parker was still white?
 
It needs to be more than background extras being diverse. It's about time we started seeing more major characters who are not white. If you have a diverse supporting cast but the main guys are still all white it undermines the entire message.

Seriously. And the Xmen is the perfect place to switch things up and still be true to the character. The only ones who dont need to change are the few who are specifically a certain race or nationality like colossus, nightcrawler, jubilee, storm, bishop, forge etc. The original 5 and prof. X should not have to be all white. Maybe save for angel who could easily represent white privilege.

As a fan of these characters and a person of color I understand both sides of the arguement. I could fan cast all day actors who like the role. But at the same time I do like to imagine some switch ups in the xmen because there aren't enough heroes that look like everybody else.
 
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So does that mean Spider-Man: Homecoming's diversity meant nothing because Peter Parker was still white?

The diversity in Spiderman was good. And honestly not that background; all of Peter's friends (and bully's) where non-white pretty much. My point is that diversity is especially important for the xmen franchise. It's got to be front and centre.
 
Yes, the people who were demanding Peter Parker be played by someone non-white and some cases, some wanted Peter to be Gay or Bisexual.. Here's the thing though, Peter Parker is one of the most iconic Marvel characters ever and he's always been a white guy. Why should his race be changed?

After 18 years of the Singerverse twisting and warping the source material, avoiding iconic elements and veering away from the comics, the last thing I'm looking for is some "All new All different" reinvention of the X-Men. We've been getting that for the past 18 years now. Marvel should embrace the source material

I think you're making a false equivalence between Spider-Man and the X-Men. The difference is that the X-Men were created to appeal specifically to discriminated minorities. Marvel already had two teenagers appealing to the masses; the X-Men were made for those whom reading about Peter Parker wasn't enough.

If you look at it that way, making all of the O5 white was more of a marketing thing than a genuine thing. I mean, when the X-Men came out segregation was still a thing and Marvel was just taking off. It probably made more sense at the time to tell a discrimination story with white characters than to make them actual minorities and risk hurting their sales. If X-Men had come out today, do you think everyone in the O5 would be white? Honestly, I doubt even most would be white.

You say they should embrace the source material, but is the spirit of the source material not the most important part? If yes, then racebending some characters is important. Maybe not characters with specific cultures like Banshee and Colossus, but guys like Iceman and Beast? They should be fair game.
 
The diversity in Spiderman was good. And honestly not that background; all of Peter's friends (and bully's) where non-white pretty much. My point is that diversity is especially important for the xmen franchise. It's got to be front and centre.
And why wouldn't that be the case for X-Men? They were still supporting characters. Why do the mutants who are poc have to be in the background? The main members who were white in the comics aka Jean, Scott, Logan can still be white people
 
And why wouldn't that be the case for X-Men? They were still supporting characters. Why do the mutants who are poc have to be in the background? The main members who were white in the comics aka Jean, Scott, Logan can still be white people

Spiderman was a one-hander. There's one clear protagonist in there and he's only going to be one ethnicity. So yes the minority characters were secondary to spiderman, but that's because everyone was. Some of the most important characters in the movie where non-white.

With X-men we're looking at an ensemble cast. If they do go with the original five, or mostly the original five, and they all keep their comic book ethnicities, what you end up with is a core of white people and several minority supporting characters. Which is better than no diversity at all, but our media should be further along than that by this point.
 
Jean should look like your avatar, only NOT drawn by a talentless hack.
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Great job, you found a picture where five of the characters are literally duplicates of some of the other characters. And yet, still diverse! Unless you don't count Jews and furry blue people as being minorities?
This picture comes from the Marvel Now relaunch and depicts the core cast of the two flagship books. These are the characters that have been driving the books for years now, and most of them are integral to the X-men mythos in a meaningful way. There's no point having this conversation with you if you think Beast counts for diversity.

X-men Blue and Gold are the current flagships. You're kidding yourself if you think this is enough diversity for stories that come from the experiences people of colour and queer people face.
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The diversity in Spiderman was good. And honestly not that background; all of Peter's friends (and bully's) where non-white pretty much. My point is that diversity is especially important for the xmen franchise. It's got to be front and centre.
There are enough minority X-Men to choose from, there is no need to racebend anyone.

Storm
Bishop
Forge
Jubilee
Psylocke
Blink
Thunderbird
Sunfire
Sunspot
 
There are enough minority X-Men to choose from, there is no need to racebend anyone.

Storm
Bishop
Forge
Jubilee
Psylocke
Blink
Thunderbird
Sunfire
Sunspot

It's certainly true that you could make a primarily minority xmen team from preexisting characters. But the original five plus Professor X are all white. The new movie won't necessarily start with all the original five but it's hard to picture the MCU focusing on guys like Bishop and Warpath over Cyclops and Jean Grey.
 
Though it is less essential than a property like Black Panther, I do think the Xmen should have a majority non-white cast and more than that, the non-white cast should come from varied ethnicities. 2/6 non-white main cast members is already fairly standard for Marvel at this point. I would like to see Xmen push the envelope a little more, personally.
The best idea imo is to have X-men symbolize bigotry in a general sense. Having about 1/3 be a racial minority seems fair because that's how America looks like. But I agree that the characters should be from varied ethnicities.
I think they have to respect the core audience for these films, the comic book fans. But they can do that AND have diversity at the same time.
 
Meaningful representation, not just token diversity, means making a diverse cast integral to the franchise and the stories it is telling. Like, it means that if a minority charcter was not present in the film, the story could not be told. Take Wolverine or Rogue away from X1 and the film is incomplete; take Storm away and not much is changed. That might mean raising the profile of characters like Jubilee, Sunspot, Rictor, Dani Moonstar, Forge, Bishop, etc. Does that leave room for Scott, Jean, Iceman, Xavier, Emma, Angel, Rogue, Gambit, Wolverine, etc? Maybe one or two, which is why raising profiles + race-bending is the way to go.
 
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And yet, still diverse! Unless you don't count Jews and furry blue people as being minorities?

That has got to be a joke. If it is, it's funny.

Well, at least where I come from, I've never seen any "furry blue people". If you're counting Beast, then you don't have to count minorities there because they're all mutants and mutants are minorities in MCU.

If it wasn't clear, we're talking about reflecting the diversity in the real world. So people of color, LGBTs, etc, all count. "Furry blue people" don't.
 
The best idea imo is to have X-men symbolize bigotry in a general sense. Having about 1/3 be a racial minority seems fair because that's how America looks like. But I agree that the characters should be from varied ethnicities.
I think they have to respect the core audience for these films, the comic book fans. But they can do that AND have diversity at the same time.
:up:
If they did an O5 movie and changed Hank and Bobby and added Storm that would be a 3 to 3 ratio and there wouldn't be an argument of the people of color being mere background characters
 
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There are characters where I care about race, but more often than not it's not that much of a concern. I'd keep Emma Frost white (and blonde). My inclination is for Jean Grey to be white, but if she does need to be racebent (not that I could say why she specifically would need to be), I'd rather they make her Asian or Hispanic rather than black. I'm also inclined to keep Rogue white, if only because they're already probably making major changes to her compared to the version I know/like, and it's just another addition to her being changed. However, if she does get changed, oh well. Other than that, I can't think of any white X-Men characters where it would be a sticking point for me.

As for the idea of Mystique being transgender, I'm against it, and I don't think it'll happen, anyway. If Marvel does go there, I don't think it'll be with a character with so much general audience exposure.

However, putting that aside, I just don't think it would work. If you make Mystique a man in a woman's body, then you've made a female character male for the sake of diversity. If you make her a woman in a man's body, then you've changed her default blue appearance to male and put her in a situation where she'd never want to take that form. Unless you have her a blue male who transforms into a blue female instead, but then her "real" form wouldn't be much more real than any other form she takes.

I also think it's important to not have conflict between the metaphor and the thing it's a metaphor of. For example, you can have racial minority mutants, gay mutants, disabled mutants, but you don't want to depict discrimination against those groups because...if you want a story about discrimination against a real group, you can make such a movie, but if you want to deal with it through a metaphor, having the real thing there just gets in the way of it. It's not good for mutation to be redundant with or in conflict with the explicit real world issues.

People who have a phobia about being touched might relate to Rogue, but if you make her have that phobia, then it doesn't matter as much that her mutation prevents her from touching people because she doesn't want to/can't touch them, anyway. And it prevents people with that phobia from dealing with it from the safer vantage point of a metaphor if it's also explicitly there on the screen and all too real.

Bringing it back to Mystique, her changing forms could be seen as a metaphor for hiding your identity from an unfriendly world. She disguises herself as people who are more trusted than her, more desired than her, more empowered than her. If you make her someone who uses her power to change herself from the form she doesn't see herself as, you've killed that metaphor. You've made it into wish fulfillment for transgender people, the ability to magic up a new body at will, when the X-Men isn't about wish fulfillment. If there were to be a transgender mutant, it should be someone whose power has nothing to do with that.
 
There are enough minority X-Men to choose from, there is no need to racebend anyone.

Storm
Bishop
Forge
Jubilee
Psylocke
Blink
Thunderbird
Sunfire
Sunspot

eXactly. Also just stick to what the character looks like in the comics.
 
Storm, Bishop, Jubilee, Sunfire, and Forge as the MCU's O5. Fans will love it.
 
Storm, Bishop, Jubilee, Sunfire, and Forge as the MCU's O5. Fans will love it.
So it's either all are minorities or it doesn't count at all? So standing out as characters is not what matters? The women are supporting roles in Black Panther but they are all scene stealers.

And since when is O5 a must so they need to racebend? I thought most people here were OK with the team in X1.
 
So it's either all are minorities or it doesn't count at all? So standing out as characters is not what matters? The women are supporting roles in Black Panther but they are all scene stealers.

And since when is O5 a must so they need to racebend? I thought most people here were OK with the team in X1.
I've already explained what meaningful representation looks like.

The mindset starts to become: "as long as Scott, Jean, Xavier, Emma, Rogue, and Gambit are in the film, white, and the main important characters, the rest of the cast can be diverse. That way the movie is diverse and no one was racebent." Except all the diversity becomes tokenish like Storm was in X1.
 
The mindset starts to become: "as long as Scott, Jean, Xavier, Emma, Rogue, and Gambit are in the film, white, and the main important characters, the rest of the cast can be diverse. That way the movie is diverse and no one was racebent. Except all the diversity becomes tokenish like Storm was in X1"
Well I've never said that so maybe stop grouping everyone into the same box. I can say gun to my head I only really need Cyclops Jean Grey and Storm, they can do whatever they want with the rest.
 
Well I've never said that so maybe stop grouping everyone into the same box. I can say gun to my head I only really need Cyclops Jean Grey and Storm, they can do whatever they want with the rest.
And if you don't racebend Cyclops and Jean, what is important to you is that 2/3rds of this group be white. In a movie about systemic oppression, based on stories where characters are profiled and targeted for some kind of brutality by the government/police.

I love Scott and Jean too, but I think we should acknowledge that there are some problems with who we become most invested in and who we imagine as being integral to the franchise.

That's why some people suggest race-bending (but are always quickly met with some kind of backlash, because god forbid we entertain the thought).
 
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