MCU X-Men - Part 3

[BH/HHH]

My idea for starting off the X-Men in the MCU is to start with a Wolverine movie where he takes on the Hulk, similar to the comic book arc. Then you do an X-Men Movie team movie, sort of using the new Wolverine to introduce the mutant idea into the MCU.

 

[CaptainWagner]

So why isn't MCU Spider-Man a 27-year-old Chinese jock named Peter Park whose parents are alive and has no uncles?
Being an A-list character with numerous mass media appearances makes no sense as a reason to change everything about him but his superpower.

You again seem to have a very poor concept of what makes up the character beyond their race. Homecoming's Peter is still a nerdy orphan with an overwhelming sense of responsibility because those are the key traits of his character. However, last I checked, he's never been portrayed the way he was in Homecoming. And there are still some stubborn fans mad about that. They changed major details but left the core the same. Why? Because we've seen the classic story time and time again.

Magneto being Jewish is not at all key to his story because he's not a practicing Jew. The historical specifics of his origin do not define him, you can substitute any minority and any hate group and you get the same character. What is most important for Magneto is that he makes the audience question their allegiance and that is story is culturally/socially relevant. Trying to force him to stay a Holocaust survivor through convoluted means or making him a "second generation survivor" actually WILL alter who he is as a character.

 

[Marvel united]

I'll be extremely disappointed if Marvel doesn't modernize Eric's origin to something that is important now.

One of the reasons Eric is the most important X-Men villain it's because he's a walking example of what hate and prejudice does. Eric is a character with a message. He makes (and should make) people feel unconfortable now.

The holocaust was awful, yes. People still feel awful when it's brought up, yes. But it happened decades and decades ago and there are many other important issue that should be brought up.

Damon Lindelof said about adapting Watchmen to HBO that there is no point in adapting that storyline making allegories to Reagan or Gorbachev, or the Cold War. It would be a disservice. And I think adapting Eric, ignoring social and political issues now would be a huge disservice for the character.

And if that wasn't enough, Marvel has another reason to modernize him. If Homecoming is any indication, Marvel will want to stay away from what's been adapted before. And boy, we've seen Eric's origin ad nauseam.

This

 

[rebellion]

My idea for starting off the X-Men in the MCU is to start with a Wolverine movie where he takes on the Hulk, similar to the comic book arc. Then you do an X-Men Movie team movie, sort of using the new Wolverine to introduce the mutant idea into the MCU.

a-a, i have had enough of wolverine centric x men films. Its time for other characters to shine. If we need someone to introduce the idea of mutants to mcu, start with storm in black panther 2. Or have any member of O5 in some post credits scene.

 

[Endeavor]

As far as I know, Eric has never been portrayed as actively Jewish, like, say, Kitty Pryde.

Nope, he hasn't. Furthermore, he hasn't always been jewish.
For a time it was said he was Roma (Gypsy), who were also persecuted and murdered by the Nazis.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What's the point of even adapting a comic book character if you're going to change everything about him except the most superficial thing, his superpower?
I know Erik Lehnsherr, and he's not a generic "minority". He's a person with a detailed biography, a Jewish Holocaust survivor who hunted Nazis circa 1962 and had children with at least one woman, Magda.
Take all that away and your new magnet-power man will always be inferior to the comics-faithful FOX version.

By this standard every single comic book adaptation needs to be either a period piece or contain some massive convolution to justify why said characters whose origins place them being born over fifty plus decades ago still are youthful in the modern world. By this standard RDJ's and Berthal's portrayals are illegitimate since instead of placing either in the Vietnam conflict they updated them into the age of "The War On Terror". I mean maybe you want to see an Iron Man or Punisher in their 70's and I suppose that's not inherently a bad idea but in terms of the type of stories you tell witha Frank Castle at 72 and a Tony Stark pushing 80 it's not going to be what we have gotten so far in live action. Plus... These aren't one off solo films but we are indeed talking about a shared universe that is about making huge bank off of a wide net audience. Tying down characters to the time frame of their first appearances basically means keeping them in stories close to tha time frame or making modern stories where realistically (Yeah sorry but even fantasy films SHOULD be beholden to some level of realism) these characters are closer to the grave than being in shape to go on their next adventure.


And before anyone says "but this is different" I am sorry, but it's really not. More over... I am sorry but this is a change to the character that is INEVITABLE. Because keeping Magneto as a survivor of the Nazi death camps as resonant as that is for the character affects too many other characters as well. Suddenly it's not just Magneto that requires added convolution to a premise that is already straining credulity, but now a whole plethora of characters need essentially immortality. This would require some kind of addition to the X-Men mythology I think and well... Wasn't that reason, the in some view that change was unnecessary the start of this whole thing in the first place?


If you expect there to be fans of the X-Men, twenty, thirty, forty or fifty years from now... Sorry but there will be massive amounts of updates done to every single character in the X universe. And like it or not, even if it gets put off for a few more years it's coming whether one likes it or not.

 

[Havok83]

Nope, he hasn't. Furthermore, he hasn't always been jewish.
For a time it was said he was Roma (Gypsy), who were also persecuted and murdered by the Nazis.

yeah the Jewish part was a retcon added in the 80s, much later after he was created in the silver age. And it was done to humanize him when Claremont wanted to redeem and turn him into a hero

 

[Marvel united]

"I am.... Magneto"

 

[MasterCat]

If you expect there to be fans of the X-Men, twenty, thirty, forty or fifty years from now... Sorry but there will be massive amounts of updates done to every single character in the X universe. And like it or not, even if it gets put off for a few more years it's coming whether one likes it or not.

I understand that. What I'm opposed to is a new film creating an original character who shares Erik Lehnsherr's superpower and trying to force him on a world that already knows and likes Erik the Ashkenazi Jew who hunted Nazis before learning enough about mutants to become a mutant supremacist.
Let Marvel Entertainment change him into a Rwandan in the comics and see how that goes over rather than forcing it on the MCU with zero precedent. There's still time for an Al Pacino or Martin Sheen to portray Erik as we've known him since Claremont first.

 

[Marvel united]

They're not going to start Magneto off as an 80 year old man in the MCU. No way it will happen

 

[MasterCat]

They're not going to start Magneto off as an 80 year old man in the MCU. No way it will happen

If you're correct, then they should only use him in a period piece. Forcing someone who's not Erik Lehnsherr on us as "Magneto" with zero precedent is unacceptable, especially as some social engineering trick to change people's opinions of a minority that leftists now like more than Jews.
Like I said, start Magneto's new race in comics and give it time to percolate.

Also, why do you find Michael Douglas (born 1944) totally acceptable but not an actor born in 1939 or '40?

 

[Havok83]

If you're correct, then they should only use him in a period piece. Forcing someone who's not Erik Lehnsherr on us as "Magneto" with zero precedent is unacceptable, especially as some social engineering trick to change people's opinions of a minority that leftists now like more than Jews.
Like I said, start Magneto's new race in comics and give it time to percolate.

Also, why do you find Michael Douglas (born 1944) totally acceptable but not an actor born in 1939 or '40?

Michael Douglas isnt playing Ant-Man in his prime. He serves the role as a mentor to a much younger Ant-Man thats taken on the mantle. Not the same thing. If they are going to use Magneto, its going to be him in his prime, not a senior citizen long past retirement age. We definitely arent going to see him serve as a mentor to a new Magneto that takes up his mantle. Its not just about age, but how the characters will be utilized.

 

[MasterCat]

Michael Douglas isnt playing Ant-Man in his prime. He serves the role as a mentor to a much younger Ant-Man thats taken on the mantle. Not the same thing. If they are going to use Magneto, its going to be him in his prime, not a senior citizen long past retirement age. We definitely arent going to see him serve as a mentor to a new Magneto that takes up his mantle. Its not just about age, but how the characters will be utilized.

Well why not use Erik as a mentor, using the CGI facelift for a scene of when he mentored a college-age Charles in Haifa and making Polaris the active leader of the Brotherhood?

 

[Boom]

"I am.... Magneto"

I quite like this suggestion.

 

[Lip]

Modernizing Eric is not "creating a new character". What defines Eric isn't the holocaust. What defines him is being a victim of hate and prejudice in a very violent way. Which made him develop his own ideology.

The holocaust was awful but it's about god damn time to people start to look around and finally see the atrocious things going on here. Did anybody here missed the current president of US putting kids in cage?

The problem is that the FOX X-Men movies hit the audience so much in the head with the holocaust survivor thing (literally brought up in every movie) that people has this idea that he needs the holocaust background. No. He needs a tragic background caused by hate and prejudice that makes him develop his ideology and become who he is.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Whoever they select I just hope they don’t call him Max Eisenhardt. I never was fond of that retcon.

 

[MasterCat]

The holocaust was awful but it's about god damn time to people start to look around and finally see the atrocious things going on here. Did anybody here missed the current president of US putting kids in cage?

... have you read Magneto: Testament? "Atrocities" are not a Platonic form where every example is interchangeable with every other. Being a Sonderkommando forced to operate a crematorium where murdered Jews were disposed of is not the same as holding children separately at the border when their parents are arrested for breaking US law (because throwing children in jail would be, you know,worse), and the kind of offensive and philosophically incoherent leftism that treats them as equal is exactly what I'm afraid of replacing the intelligently-written, comics-faithful FOX Erik.

 

[Lip]

... have you read Magneto: Testament? "Atrocities" are not a Platonic form where every example is interchangeable with every other. Being a Sonderkommando forced to operate a crematorium where murdered Jews were disposed of is not the same as holding children separately at the border when their parents are arrested for breaking US law (because throwing children in jail would be, you know,worse), and the kind of offensive and philosophically incoherent leftism that treats them as equal is exactly what I'm afraid of replacing the intelligently-written, comics-faithful FOX Erik.

Yes. I did read. And I'm not comparing the situations.

I'm sorry, but you completely missed the point of the character if you think Eric is about how malign and evil the human being can be. Eric is not about comparing and measuring how cruel human beings can be. It isn't about this is more evil than this. That's not the message.

 

[Marvel united]

If you're correct, then they should only use him in a period piece.

Or they can update the character the same they updated Tony Stark and Frank Castle.

Forcing someone who's not Erik Lehnsherr on us as "Magneto" with zero precedent is unacceptable, especially as some social engineering trick to change people's opinions of a minority that leftists now like more than Jews.

The ONLY thing that will change about the character is where he was born and what act of barbaric human hatred that turned him into a mutant supremacist.

And what does the second half of your sentence even mean? What are you trying to imply there? That liberals like other minorities more than Jews? is this the new conspiracy or something cause I'm confused.

Like I said, start Magneto's new race in comics and give it time to percolate.

Or vice-versa will happen. The comics change things all the time in reaction to whatever is going on in the movies.

Also, why do you find Michael Douglas (born 1944) totally acceptable but not an actor born in 1939 or '40?

Because Pym is playing a mentor. He's not Ant-Man. Magneto will be a reccuring villain throughout the X-Men franchise, you can't start him off as an 80 yo man when you have at least a decade worth of film appearances for the character

 

[Iceman]

My idea for starting off the X-Men in the MCU is to start with a Wolverine movie where he takes on the Hulk, similar to the comic book arc. Then you do an X-Men Movie team movie, sort of using the new Wolverine to introduce the mutant idea into the MCU.

I want Wolverine introduced in a film with Hulk, but I don't want that to be the way the X-Men are introduced. I think it's important that Marvel introduce the X-Men and make a success of them in at least one team film without Wolverine (hints/cameo aside), to show the GA how good these characters are independently of Wolverine.

 

[MasterCat]

Or they can update the character the same they updated Tony Stark and Frank Castle.

You don't update a man who was an Israeli spy with a license to kill until he learned enough about mutants to organize a mutant supremacist movement by taking his heritage away from him. Tony Stark was still the white American son of Howard and Maria Stark; they just updated the environment that traumatized him into fighting with a flashy power.

The ONLY thing that will change about the character is where he was born and what act of barbaric human hatred that turned him into a mutant supremacist.

That's BS. If you take his heritage away from him, you'll also take away his origin story and family. Jewish Erik could still be kin to Wanda and Pietro, perhaps by being the father of Marya (an Ashkenazi name) Maximoff.

And what does the second half of your sentence even mean? What are you trying to imply there? That liberals like other minorities more than Jews? is this the new conspiracy or something cause I'm confused.

Erik is a sympathetic Israeli. The left is anti-Israel. You didn't know?

Or vice-versa will happen. The comics change things all the time in reaction to whatever is going on in the movies.

Yeah, and that would be bad. The point is that there are zero stories about your completely different Magneto to adapt for films, whereas FOX had a comics-faithful Magneto.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Magneto should have decelerated aging. Simple

 

[Marvel united]

You don't update a man who was an Israeli spy with a license to kill until he learned enough about mutants to organize a mutant supremacist movement by taking his heritage away from him. Tony Stark was still the white American son of Howard and Maria Stark; they just updated the environment that traumatized him into fighting with a flashy power.

That same exact story can work with any race. Erik can easily be a middle-eastern spy and have his heritage taken away. None of these things are exclusive to one race or tragic event in history, you change his race and the placement of the tragedy and everything remains the same.

That's BS. If you take his heritage away from him, you'll also take away his origin story and family. Jewish Erik could still be kin to Wanda and Pietro, perhaps by being the father of Marya (an Ashkenazi name) Maximoff.

That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Pietro is dead and Wanda already shares very little with her comic counterpart as is. The time for the Maximoff family dynamic has passed, it's way too late. You can still have Polaris as his daughter and develop their relationship.

Erik is a sympathetic Israeli. The left is anti-Israel. You didn't know?

No, not really. Does this have something to do with Palestine, or...?

Yeah, and that would be bad. The point is that there are zero stories about your completely different Magneto to adapt for films, whereas FOX had a comics-faithful Magneto.

So an adaptation of Mutant Genisis, Fatal Attractions, Age of Apocalypse. Savage Land etc all stories that feature Magneto in a prominent role won't work because he's no longer Jewish? Yeah, sure..

 

[MasterCat]

So an adaptation of Mutant Genisis, Fatal Attractions, Age of Apocalypse. Savage Land etc all stories that feature Magneto in a prominent role won't work because he's no longer Jewish? Yeah, sure..

An adaptation of any of the stories that feature Storm in a prominent role won't work unless she's African? Yeah, sure... Claremont established that she was born in 1950 and became an orphan with lifelong claustrophobia during the Suez Crisis of 1956, so let's change her race. She can be an Asian street thief in a country where her origin makes a lot more sense in the present day than Egypt, then be worshiped by a primitive tribe in the wilds of Southeast Asia.

 

[Havok83]

Well why not use Erik as a mentor, using the CGI facelift for a scene of when he mentored a college-age Charles in Haifa and making Polaris the active leader of the Brotherhood?

Because Marvel is not going to have Polaris take Magneto's place in the films. I love Lorna and would love to see her get elevated but that has about a 0% chance of happening. Besides that completely throws things off. I think if and when she is introduced it should be as a young mutant that may or may not be with the X-men. Magneto's role as main antagonist and counterpart to Xavier is too vital to make too many drastic changes to.

An adaptation of any of the stories that feature Storm in a prominent role won't work unless she's African? Yeah, sure... Claremont established that she was born in 1950 and became an orphan with lifelong claustrophobia during the Suez Crisis of 1956, so let's change her race. She can be an Asian street thief in a country where her origin makes a lot more sense in the present day than Egypt, then be worshiped by a primitive tribe in the wilds of Southeast Asia.

Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was not vital to any of those stories he listed. Heck it wasnt known that he was one in some of those as they pre-date the retcon. He can still be Jewish without having lived through the Holocaust