MCU X-Men - Part 3

[Marvel united]

True, black panther was super successful. Cuz there was nothing there to upset anyone who isnt hardcore racist.
But the minute you thow in an openly gay character/romance, moms of america will scream, china wont give you a release date and that is the harsh truth. Lgbt community isnt as big as black community and wont make up for all the narrow minded people who refuse to see it.

I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of people who won't see it because of an openly LGBTQ character. The truth is, the entire foundation of Black Panther was built up on race, the idea of a nationalism vs a racial collectivism, the villain himself was a black racist who wanted to free oppress blacks around the world and incite genocide war on his "oppressors" for what happened to his ancestors In the past. Those are pretty serious subjects that everybody knew was in the movie and BP still destroyed the box-office. The people whining about diversity and "SJWs" or whatever, will be drowned out by the larger audience who will come out to see this movie in droves. I could EASILY X-Men being the next big cultural phenomenon like BP was.

Also are you forgetting that Deadpool 2 had a openly LGBTQ couple and it still outgrossed EVERY X-Men film not named DOFP? Let that sink in.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This entire discussion hurts my brain

 

[Marvel united]

Do some of you even realize X-Men since its inception has always been about diversity and has always had socio-political overtones?


It's also already often been a not-so-subtle allegory for gay rights and other minority issues (it had an AIDS allegory in the comics that was about as subtle as that Bobby "coming out" scene in X2, which is to say, not subtle at all).


Suggesting X-Men of all franchises is not the place to push diversity is pretty hilarious.

It truly is baffling. The lack of understanding some have about what the X-Men stand for and what mutants as a whole are suppose to represent.

 

[rebellion]

I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of people who won't see it because of an openly LGBTQ character. The truth is, the entire foundation of Black Panther was built up on race, the idea of a nationalism vs a racial collectivism, the villain himself was a black racist who wanted to free oppress blacks around the world and incite genocide war on his "oppressors" for what happened to his ancestors In the past. Those are pretty serious subjects that everybody knew was in the movie and BP still destroyed the box-office. The people whining about diversity and "SJWs" or whatever, will be drowned out by the larger audience who will come out to see this movie in droves. I could EASILY X-Men being the next big cultural phenomenon like BP was.

Also are you forgetting that Deadpool 2 had a openly LGBTQ couple and it still outgrossed EVERY X-Men film not named DOFP? Let that sink in.

Deadpool2? Thats just the right example of tokenism. Those characters were barely characters.
Beauty and the beast caused quite a stir and disney tried to downplay the lgbt aspect. Look, we had valkyrie, the okoye exchange in bp... All ended on a cutting room floor. Id love to be proven wrong. We shall see.

 

[Abudefduf]

Mcu isnt gonna suddenly become political just because it has x men back.

You seem to believe that politics had nothing to do with Marvel's decision to focus on straight, white male heroes for 10 freaking years... well I'm sorry but you're mistaken. The MCU has been political for a while.

 

[Marvel united]

Deadpool2? Thats just the right example of tokenism. Those characters were barely characters.
Beauty and the beast caused quite a stir and disney tried to downplay the lgbt aspect. Look, we had valkyrie, the okoye exchange in bp... All ended on a cutting room floor. Id love to be proven wrong. We shall see.

I actually really liked the fact that Deadpool 2 had a lesbian couple and didn't shine some huge spotlight on it. They were treated as normal people in a relationship.

Either way Deadpool 2 and B&TB disprove your argument about nobody wanting to see X-Men because of an openly gay character. The only groups that are going to be throwing tantrums about LGBTQ representation are the ones X-MEN was never the target audience for anyway.

 

[Havok83]

True, black panther was super successful. Cuz there was nothing there to upset anyone who isnt hardcore racist.
But the minute you thow in an openly gay character/romance, moms of america will scream, china wont give you a release date and that is the harsh truth. Lgbt community isnt as big as black community and wont make up for all the narrow minded people who refuse to see it.

What decade are you stuck in? The 1960s?

 

[CaptainWagner]

The "mom's of America" had a meltdown over Beauty and the Beast. And Disney certainly didn't try to "downplay" LeFou's sexuality, if anything they over-hyped it, making it seem like it was some big deal in the film when, in reality, it was barely noticeable. And what happened? A billion dollar movie.

The regressive voices in America don't have nearly the power that they like to think they do. An X-Men movie heralding the first openly gay superhero will be hugely successful, mark my words. And Marvel has made it clear that they don't plan on shying away from politics. If they were to cave to the vocal minority of bigots that these characters were created to fight against, it would be a massive betrayal of the source material.

 

[Double B]

Like someone said on the last page, a gay Iceman has the potential to be the heart of the movie and you best believe, it could leave a huge mark on the audience a la Black Panter.

 

[Lip]

in the grand scheme of things, those are all relatively supporting characters. In the X-franchise, it would be like changing the races of Moira McTaggert, Val Cooper, Amanda Sefton and Toad

Well, to be fair, Spiderman is a solo hero, so the rest of characters are supporting characters and that is a big difference when you compare to X-Men. Also, you can add villains like Scorpion and Shocker in the mix.

And it's worth noticing that they did that simply to reflect how the world is right now. It would be ridiculous to have an all white cast in a story set NY city. And if they did that with a franchise that doesn't have a responsibility with diversity like the X-Men has, they will be doing it with X-Men. That's a fact.

 

[Lip]

I don't think they'll be changing Logan, Scott and Jean. So here's what could be:

Xavier: Black (Giancarlo Esposito and Jeffrey Wright are my top picks)
Scott: White
Jean: White
Storm: Black
Jubilee: Asian
Rogue: Black or Latina (Claremont originally wanted her to look like Grace Jones)
Bobby: Gay

I'm fine with that.

 

[Havok83]

Well, to be fair, Spiderman is a solo hero, so the rest of characters are supporting characters and that is a big difference when you compare to X-Men. Also, you can add villains like Scorpion and Shocker in the mix.

And it's worth noticing that they did that simply to reflect how the world is right now. It would be ridiculous to have an all white cast in a story set NY city. And if they did that with a franchise that doesn't have a responsibility with diversity like the X-Men has, they will be doing it with X-Men. That's a fact.

But thats my point. Its alot easier and less risky to take liberties like this with more minor characters than it is with the leads. Even when most people assumed Mary Jane Watson would be played by Zendaya, Disney didnt have the guts to change her up and just created an original character instead. The teens in Homecoming were largely throwaway. If we never see them again, its not going to hurt that franchise going forward.

Compare this to the Avengers; none of the actual team was race swapped and instead we had everyone that was original white, portrayed onscreen as white. You didnt see Hawkeye all off a sudden become Native American or Bruce Banner as a black man or Scarlet Witch as Middle Eastern. We saw Valkyrie and Heimdell get changed which again is bc they are more minor supporting players. The X-men have plenty of those and Id expect to see them changed up. Not so much with the A-listers

 

[Marvel united]

So Cyclops, Jean, Logan, Iceman, Kitty, Charles etc will probably remain white. Everybody else? I want Beast to get swapped because Dev Patel would be an amazing Hank McCoy

 

[rebellion]

What decade are you stuck in? The 1960s?

Im from croatia, so its more like 40s :/ and yes, based on my experience in the USA, a lot of people are still in the 60s.

 

[fobi]

Wow, a lot of ideas in here. Lol

 

[TheVileOne]

Like someone said on the last page, a gay Iceman has the potential to be the heart of the movie and you best believe, it could leave a huge mark on the audience a la Black Panter.

What about Laura Kinney as Wolverine?

 

[Marvel united]

What about Laura Kinney as Wolverine?

No, that will never happen

 

[Da-Scribe]

Peeking into this thread like

 

[MasterCat]

Well then you picked the wrong franchise to be a fan of. That's like saying "I don't want elements of the hero's journey or spirituality in my STAR WARS movies."

Too late.

What do you mean, "too late"? I didn't notice Campbell's monomyth or any spirituality in the sequel trilogy.

 

[CaptainWagner]

But thats my point. Its alot easier and less risky to take liberties like this with more minor characters than it is with the leads. Even when most people assumed Mary Jane Watson would be played by Zendaya, Disney didnt have the guts to change her up and just created an original character instead. The teens in Homecoming were largely throwaway. If we never see them again, its not going to hurt that franchise going forward.

Compare this to the Avengers; none of the actual team was race swapped and instead we had everyone that was original white, portrayed onscreen as white. You didnt see Hawkeye all off a sudden become Native American or Bruce Banner as a black man or Scarlet Witch as Middle Eastern. We saw Valkyrie and Heimdell get changed which again is bc they are more minor supporting players. The X-men have plenty of those and Id expect to see them changed up. Not so much with the A-listers

It's also worth noting, though, in regards to the lack of diversity in the original Avengers lineup, that they were still held under the sway of Perlmutter at the time, who wouldn't have allowed anything like that regardless of what the creative teams wanted.

That's a good point that was made about Rogue. Considering Claremont's original vision for her, she would be a prime option to race-swap.

 

[Tg11]

Charles Xavier/Professor X- Daniel Craig
Erik Lehnsherr/Magneto- Jason Isaacs
Scott Summers/Cyclops- Armie Hammer
Jean Grey- Lily James
Ororo Munroe/Storm- Deborah Ayorinde
Bobby Drake/Iceman- Tyler Posey
Remy LeBeau/Gambit- Richard Madden
Dr. Hank McCoy/Beast- Benjamin Walker
Warren Worthington III/Angel- Dan Stevens
Kitty Pryde/Shadowcat- Hailee Steinfeld
James "Logan" Howlett/Wolverine- Kit Harington
Raven Darkholme/Mystique- Emilia Clarke
Victor Creed/Sabretooth- Charlie Hunnam
John Allerdyce/Pyro- Brenton Thwaites


Marie D'Acanto/Rogue- Daisy Ridley

 

[Marvel united]

A Rouge race swap would be interesting

 

[Lip]

But thats my point. Its alot easier and less risky to take liberties like this with more minor characters than it is with the leads. Even when most people assumed Mary Jane Watson would be played by Zendaya, Disney didnt have the guts to change her up and just created an original character instead. The teens in Homecoming were largely throwaway. If we never see them again, its not going to hurt that franchise going forward.

Compare this to the Avengers; none of the actual team was race swapped and instead we had everyone that was original white, portrayed onscreen as white. You didnt see Hawkeye all off a sudden become Native American or Bruce Banner as a black man or Scarlet Witch as Middle Eastern. We saw Valkyrie and Heimdell get changed which again is bc they are more minor supporting players. The X-men have plenty of those and Id expect to see them changed up. Not so much with the A-listers

There are still many differences. Besides Perlmutter that CaptainWagner mentioned above there is also the fact that our vision changed a lot in the last few years. The recent case of Johansson cast as a trans man and the massive sucess of Black Panther only shows that the vision has changed when it comes to diversity represented onscreen.

Also, still comparing with Homecoming, those changes were made to reflect the world as it is right now. And there's only a few white people in the cast. If you apply the same logic to the X-Men (that has a responsibility), you can't change only side characters like Val Cooper and Moira.

So unless the line up is Storm, Forge, Bishop, Jubilee, Sunfire and Cecila Reyes, they will be changing some fan favorite.

 

[Darkprime]

Well then, X-Men isn't the comic made for what you're wanting out of comic book heroes. Because it has always been one of the most political Marvel comic book franchises with political undertones, arguably more so than Black Panther in the 60s.

Complaining about political overtones or "Social Justice' topics in an X-MEN film is like complaining about Peter Parker going through money problems and girl problems in a SPIDER-MAN film.

The irony here is not lost on anyone

Not true at all the mcu has only been political when it needs to be and even then its very minimal. Winter Solder, Black Panther etc. It fit in the context of the movie. You dont see avengers dealing with LGBT issues.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What do you mean, "too late"? I didn't notice Campbell's monomyth or any spirituality in the sequel trilogy.

Then my assumption is you have great difficulty processing information received through the combination of audio and visual stimuli referred to as "movies".