Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Iceman]

Maybe Gambit or Kurt. I would have suggested one of the younglings in Kitty/Jubilee/Armor but he'll probably he in no position to mentor anybody in the beginning.

Also, I would like to see the Weapon X team with some new members. Sabrertooth, Omega Red, Aurora, Sauron, Fantomex and Mesmero.

If it was a youngster, it could be a case of him having to protect them rather than mentor, and then being "stuck with them".

And I definitely thinks it's time we saw Omega Red!

 

[Iceman]

I’m very confident that Marvel will find the right guy to play Wolverine. I think they’re aware of how much it would benefit them to hew closer to the comics this time around in an effort to set this Wolverine apart from Hugh’s iconic portrayal.

Fancasting is fun, but I’m going to support whoever they decide to go with.

Also, I kinda hope they take their time introducing the X-Men. I personally think Silver Surfer and the Fantastic Four should both get movies before a new X-Men film.

They could build up to the X-Men movie similarly to how they built up to the Avengers. Introduce Wolverine in a Wolverine vs Hulk movie, Rogue in Captain Marvel 2, and Storm in Black Panther, in addition to post credits scenes and maybe some introductory cameos from the rest of the burgeoning team.

That approach seems to be what most of us want here. I expect a F4 film before an X-Men team film. It's a far more straightforward undertaking (for a start you already know the roster lol). Another good thing about building up with cameo/guest solo appearances is that they can start that relatively soon, casting one at a time rather than having to get everyone on board before being able to begin.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yes them being young and starting out when most contemporary heroes are also pretty new to their roles is almost entirely different to them starting out when other heroes have already been saving the world and getting adored and/or despised by the public for years and actually over a decade. Let alone if/when you have (as probably will happen) them outright looking up to the older established heroes.

Another significant issue with starting them and having them be real young (teenagers/HS) is that the actors (even newcomers) probably won't want to do more than a few films so if you have two or three solo HS years films and three crossover appearances you wouldn't ever get the adult experienced versions (or in just one film) short of recastings. That would be a lot less of a problem if the MCU started having a lot fewer crossover appearances but that's unlikely.

The Harry Potter films were an inspiration for Marvel Studios Spider-Man and may be for its X-Men but actors being willing to do a Harry Potter-length series/character portrayal seems unlikely.

What I love about the X-Men is that, even when they first started, they had no reason to look up to established heroes because they were neglected by the established heroes. The Avengers never come to the X-Men's apartment and dance around the great power-great responsibility speech. The Avengers go around saving everyone BUT mutants, and that creates enmity, not admiration. They are not Spider-Man just because they're young. I also don't know of younger actors passing up on deals, because young actors are like Tom Holland, and while the X-Men start as high schoolers, they graduate from HS in I think issue 7 of their first comic. Just because someone is 17-19 doesn't mean that they aren't an experienced adult by the end of the movie. I think a lot of the discussion here is sort of like EXPERIENCED ADULTS or PERPETUAL CHILDREN, and honestly, I take that as validation. If I say "I'd like to see these characters established over the course of 1 film instead of starting pre-established" and the response from you, and others, is "I don't want to wait 3 films to see them established" then that suggests that there's not really a problem with my suggestion.

True. Although to get to a certain level you also need experience in your field. The guy on his first day at the job might be the most assertive person in the world but he won't be able to confidently talk about things he has no knowdege of yet. In the way you're talking even some 12 years olds who are on the path to greatness were plenty assertive at that age but you don't get taken seriously until you have something to back that up. Even those middle aged corporate CEOs who are as confident as they come wouldn't get taken seriously on their first mission if they run into Cap and co without field experience.

I think that's the rub, right, I don't forsee Cyclops running into Cap on his first mission. Or second, or third. Whether there's a montage of missions like The First Avenger, or really only two big fights like Iron Man 1, I expect to see the X-Men's adventure into becoming superheroes, and that on-screen experience be why Cyclops stands toe to toe with Cap (assuming he's still alive) when X-Men crosses over with the Avengers, which, again, will not be at the beginning of the first X-Men movie. The core, in my mind, of Cyclops' issue with Cap is that Cap can't/won't do what Cyclops does. That's a lot more powerful if we've seen it than if Cyclops doesn't even do what Cyclops does, but just says he's done it.

To reiterate, this is/should be a big, worrying deal. Feige and others at Marvel seemed to think that at least with Spider-Man high school age meant incompetent or minimally competent, literally have to be saved by another hero twice though he can then succeed and save the day at the end of the film.

True, but there's a difference between being 15 and self taught and being 18 and taught by Charles Xavier. So it's not quite the worry unless you're convinced that young = just like Spidey. I get when people just make those assumptions, like, you're not evil or silly for thinking that, but it's not necessarily a well founded concern either.

Thank f***.

We don't need origin upon origin yet again, especially in the mcu. Enough with the origin porn. I've no interest in waiting another decade just to get the team to the place the audience wants to see them.

No one wants a decade, but in the MCU, even characters that start with their powers, like Spider-Man or Black Panther experience origin-like story arcs where they come into their own as heroes on screen because, for a number of reasons, it works. It doesn't take a decade though, it takes one film. I don't think X-Men will or should be any different.

I bet Feige is very relieved that this timely deal is going to spare him the hassle of having to make a Black Knight movie. lol

This. I'm excited for X-Men as well, but this, effectively, is the end of the broadening of the MCU that really elevated the Avengers into household name that they just weren't ten years ago.

I could never have predicted that mini-series would become an avenue for us to get a wealth of new material, but when they mentioned big budget it sounded hopeful. And now that they will be competing with the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime for streaming shows they will be screaming out for content. And if they get this stuff right from the outset it could be the case that the GA chooses to watch all of it as one huge supporting show to the films, rather than treating them all individually and picking and choosing in the way that regular shows find themselves.

Yeah, in a perfect world there's a X-Men movie series (and maybe a Wolverine series) as well as an Xavier's School Disney Streaming series. That's kinda the only way they'll have a shot at doing justice to both the breadth and depth of the X-Men corner (half?) of the universe.

Fancast I'm proud of right now:

Will Poulter (Maze Runner, Bandersnatch) as Scott "Cyclops" Summers
You need someone to humanize a dick. And Cyclops is a dick, he's a fricking basketcase, can't keep a marriage, can't make friends, total OCD anal retentive, but goddamnit he can make a battle plan and be cool calm and collected under fire. A dead on sniper and highly disciplined, you need someone like Poulter who has been humanizing the worst technically correct people since he himself was a 16 year old just learning the trade. 25 years old.

Cyclops is also the greatest case in point I can think of to say: The LEAD of the movie is NOT the LEADER of the X-Men At least not necessarily. And getting this confused is why the Singer films had to gut Cyclops because they couldn't understand the idea that the protagonist doesn't necessarily come up with the plan. Avengers, on the other hand, got this right, knowing that just because RDJ is driving the action, doesn't mean that he's capable or that the movie is best served by him being the one giving the orders. Cap is best for that. Cyclops would be similar.

Oh, and just for the record, Saoirse Ronan was in the running for Jean Grey for Apocalypse, but maybe didn't match up well in the screen tests with Tye Sheridan.

Saoirse Ronan (Lady Bird, Hanna, The Host) as Jean Grey, the Marvel Girl
I really don't feel any explanation here is needed. She looks the part and is an absolutely incredible actress. 24 years old.

But that's not controversial... here's one I think would change the game:

Jeffrey Wright (West World, Hunger Games: Catching Fire) as Charles Francis Xavier aka Professor X
I know, I know, Xavier's White, I get it, his father's old money New England, and we're used to him as a British guy because Patrick Stewart is f'ing awesome. That, I'm afraid is why Xavier needs a strong clearly different direction, and connecting him to the actual struggle for equality that the X-Men got their initial relevance from will do that. Bonus, it doesn't at all impede his father from being old money New England (seeing as how "White" people can have "Black" children), but actually suggests it away from a British background, bringing with it the unspoken tension that can come from that kind of writes itself. Now you see Cain Marko feels he's the rightful son, don't you? More importantly than the elephant in the room, Wright's a phenomenal actor and his voice carries a gravitas to the kind of exposition Xavier has to do that works, and if we're honest, that's kind of his job on Westworld, Hunger Games, Source Code and etc. He's really good at it. Wheelchair experience a plus, and he's one of the few accomplished Black actors that hasn't already gotten a supporting role in the MCU outside of Will and Zel, and TBH, I don't see them doing MCU stuff, much less for multiple movies. And yes, for the record, he looks good bald. 53 years old.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I have long held firm that Xavier can easily be race swapped. I don't think he must be a bald, old, white guy. Wright is a good suggestion as well.

 

[Marvel united]

I'm conflicted on the idea of a race swap on Charles. For me, swapping Scott, Jean and Logan are a no-no. But Charles - like Logan and as Dr. Cosmic mentioned, is in fact tied to old money. So you do have to change the context of his origin even if the basic details remain the same.

If they HAVE to change him, then Wright is a good choice.

 

[OB12]

Wright is a good suggestion for Xavier, I'd also be in favor of Lennie James.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I have long held firm that Xavier can easily be race swapped. I don't think he must be a bald, old, white guy. Wright is a good suggestion as well.

Agreed, but he HAS TO be a bald older guy.

 

[DrCosmic]

I thought about him too, Lennie James is a G, love him. The reason I went with Wright is that he easily passes as Biracial, and so the only thing you need to do to explain why this Black man is old NE money is show that mother that we never see was a Black woman. You really wanna have fun make her a British Black woman. There's not really a lot of context changing, just added context of being a civil rights activist (or more dramatically a helpless child during the civil rights era) AND old money NE, which creates kind of a fun dichotomy, imho. He doesn't HAVE to be a Black guy, but I think it adds a lot to his story without actually taking anything away.

And yeah, he has to be an older bald guy. I didn't even think that was up for discussion. He also has to be in a wheelchair, preferably from the start, but I'll accept the first third of the film. Also telepathy. And being an academic.

 

[Marvel united]

I thought about him too, Lennie James is a G, love him. The reason I went with Wright is that he easily passes as Biracial, and so the only thing you need to do to explain why this Black man is old NE money is show that mother that we never see was a Black woman. You really wanna have fun make her a British Black woman. There's not really a lot of context changing, just added context of being a civil rights activist (or more dramatically a helpless child during the civil rights era) AND old money NE, which creates kind of a fun dichotomy, imho. He doesn't HAVE to be a Black guy, but I think it adds a lot to his story without actually taking anything away.

And yeah, he has to be an older bald guy. I didn't even think that was up for discussion. He also has to be in a wheelchair, preferably from the start, but I'll accept the first third of the film. Also telepathy. And being an academic.

Well you found a way out of the confusion by making Charles Bi-racial. But his origin would be much harder to explain if he has two black parents coming from 1800s old money. Charles' family tree goes wayyy back.

 

[Zarex]

I would dump Charles and Erik in the Marvel reboot, at least to start. Have Chuck hanging with his alien girlfriend and Erik gone underground. Put Scott and Jean in charge of the school and give them time to shine.

 

[DrCosmic]

Well you found a way out of the confusion by making Charles Bi-racial. But his origin would be much harder to explain if he has two black parents coming from 1800s old money. Charles' family tree goes wayyy back.

Agreed. Being biracial was what I was implying by saying ""White" people can have "Black" children."

I would dump Charles and Erik in the Marvel reboot, at least to start. Have Chuck hanging with his alien girlfriend and Erik gone underground. Put Scott and Jean in charge of the school and give them time to shine.

Nah. It's not Guardians of the Galaxy where making the setting seem alien from our own is part of the point. Familiar -> Crazy is what I'd suggest. Now if Charles alien girlfriend is Ayesha, and Erik was a SHIELD agent with Fury back in the day, that could be an interesting way to tie the X-Men into the already up and running MCU.

 

[Marvel united]

Agreed. Being biracial was what I was implying by saying ""White" people can have "Black" children."



Nah. It's not Guardians of the Galaxy where making the setting seem alien from our own is part of the point. Familiar -> Crazy is what I'd suggest. Now if Charles alien girlfriend is Ayesha, and Erik was a SHIELD agent with Fury back in the day, that could be an interesting way to tie the X-Men into the already up and running MCU.

Good ooint. I can see the value in having a Charles that's much more in-tune with Civil Rights act. Adds another layer to the MLK allegory that Charles represents.

Also, the choice of Saoirse Ronan as Jean Grey is very good. Having seen Ladybird -- I can attest that she Is a very talented actress and she's making waves in Hollywood right now..She did in fact audition for Jean in 2015 and she was very close to getting the part. The only reason why Sophie Turner was chosen over her was because of her GOT clout. Sophie even admitted this herself, that Saoirse was a better choice.

 

[Silvermoth]

I would dump Charles and Erik in the Marvel reboot, at least to start. Have Chuck hanging with his alien girlfriend and Erik gone underground. Put Scott and Jean in charge of the school and give them time to shine.

That’s an interesting idea. Even if he only aappears as a statue or something, it would help put the spotlight on other characters. But maybe it would cop flack for erasing disability from the xmen? Idk

 

[FredoTL]

Hi all, new here. Went back and read about 15 pages of awesome theories and casting suggestions. I figured I would share this image for those who like Chris Pine for Cyclops. Found this a while back and loved it.

EDIT : I like the idea of changing Xavier's race, however I wouldn't mind seeing a shaven head Hugh Jackman take the role as a nod to him.

 

[DrCosmic]

EDIT : I like the idea of changing Xavier's race, however I wouldn't mind seeing a shaven head Hugh Jackman take the role as a nod to him.

I think it'll be very interesting to see if they take anyone from the Fox-Men universe, or if they'll avoid them like the plague

 

[FredoTL]

I think it'll be very interesting to see if they take anyone from the Fox-Men universe, or if they'll avoid them like the plague

Hopefully avoid. Short of maybe a quick nod to the very few stand outs of the original few movies. In my opinion most of everything after X-Men 2 wasn't good. And even the original 2 movies don't hold up well any longer due to the movie quality we get these days.

 

[Abudefduf]

This. I'm excited for X-Men as well, but this, effectively, is the end of the broadening of the MCU that really elevated the Avengers into household name that they just weren't ten years ago.

Before Phase 3 I wouldn't have been happy about it, but now I kind of am, for two reasons:
1) Fox proving with Apocalypse that they're simply incapable of getting their **** together when it comes to the X-Men
2) the fact that Marvel is obviously starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

This deal couldn't have happened at a more opportune time.

 

[DrCosmic]

Hopefully avoid. Short of maybe a quick nod to the very few stand outs of the original few movies. In my opinion most of everything after X-Men 2 wasn't good. And even the original 2 movies don't hold up well any longer due to the movie quality we get these days.

I suspect they'll avoid as well, but like, we do have Chris Evans and Michael B. Jordan from previous Fox movies in new very different roles. That's about a level of crossover I'd expect with any franchise from the massive MCU superproject. Like, for instance, if I was going to pick the Lord of The Rings franchise, I could name 5 actors, easy that have been in the MCU. Same with Star Wars, the Matrix, basically anything BUT X-Men, which is kind of an understandable but seemingly intentional avoidance. Of course, now I can think of one person who has done both Fox-Men and MCU: Peter Dinklage

Before Phase 3 I wouldn't have been happy about it, but now I kind of am, for two reasons:
1) Fox proving with Apocalypse that they're simply incapable to get their **** together when it comes to the X-Men
2) the fact that Marvel is obviously starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

This deal couldn't have happened at a more opportune time.

I feel that, and at the same time, some of these 'bottom' of the barrel characters could be the next Guardians of the Galaxy. Black Knight sounds wack, but modernized sci-fi Camelot as a core aesthetic isn't exactly the worst idea in the world. She Hulk, Nova and Namor aren't exactly tragic ideas, to say nothing of Young Avengers, Thunderbolts, New Warriors or giving new life to Blade, Ghost Rider or Inhumans. Hell, New Universe and Supreme Powers would make my year, easy. That said, put all that up against X-Men, because X-Men is X-Men, it's a tough call even for me, someone who likes even the less lauded parts of the Marvel Universe. Far anyone whose intro to these characters is film, I wouldn't expect it to be even close to a contest, and yet, NOT going with that perspective is what made the MCU what it is, and it's a shame that that growth is kinda over.

That said, Shang Chi is probably not a project I'm going to be super excited about.

 

[Lip]

I would dump Charles and Erik in the Marvel reboot, at least to start. Have Chuck hanging with his alien girlfriend and Erik gone underground. Put Scott and Jean in charge of the school and give them time to shine.

I wouldn't mind that at all.

Charles is very important for the X-Men, but we can absolutely see his dream through the X-Men. I think it would actually be quite refreshing to see the X-Men representing his dream.

 

[Shoppy]

If I was choosing the next Xavier I'd go for Niles from Frasier.

 

[Marvel united]

I would dump Charles and Erik in the Marvel reboot, at least to start. Have Chuck hanging with his alien girlfriend and Erik gone underground. Put Scott and Jean in charge of the school and give them time to shine.

I wouldn't mind that at all.

Charles is very important for the X-Men, but we can absolutely see his dream through the X-Men. I think it would actually be quite refreshing to see the X-Men representing his dream.

The problem with starting without Charles is that the X-Men begins WITH Charles. He's the one that funds the school, he's the one that finds the students and he's the one that sees to them finding their true potential. Scott and Jean are his students, they don't run the school. This once again goes back to the problem of trying to fit the entire history of the comics into the MCU: trying to start the story of the X-Men off at a point that did not happen in the comics until almost 45 years after their debut. The only time I can recall Charles being absent from the school and the X-Men seeing to Charles' dream on their own was in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. I guess you could say Age of Apocalypse but that was an alternative reality and Magneto was leading the school, not Charles.

Charles needs to be in the movie. He should be a supporting character to his students, he shouldn't have a huge role but he's an essential character that must be present in the Introduction of mutants.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Yeah professor X needs to be there. We dont need a new introduction to the character with a complete origin though.

 

[Lip]

The problem with starting without Charles is that the X-Men begins WITH Charles

The same point could be made about Uncle Ben and his "with great powers" thing. I mean, by now, after 20 years, the GA already knows quite well who Charles is and his ideology.

I won't be mad if he's there. But I won't be mad if he's just mentioned either. FC survived without Scott, Jean and Ororo. And Scott had minor roles in almost every movie he was in. So I don't think it's the end of the world if Charles skip one movie. And it's not like "doing things wrong", since he can be mentioned as the founder, mentor and all that...

 

[Marvel united]

The same point could be made about Uncle Ben and his "with great powers" thing. I mean, by now, after 20 years, the GA already knows quite well who Charles is and his ideology.

No, it could not. Charles is not an Uncle Ben-lit character whose only purpose in the narrative is to die and be the motivating factor for the X-Men. Charles has played an active role in the source material and various forms of media since the X-Men debuted in 1963. He's not comparable to Uncle Ben at all. The closest equivalent to Charles in the Spider-Man mythos is Aunt May. (Whom was stil the emotional backbone of Peter in Homecoming)

I won't be mad if he's there. But I won't be mad if he's just mentioned either. FC survived without Scott, Jean and Ororo. And Scott had minor roles in almost every movie he was in. So I don't think it's the end of the world if Charles skip one movie. And it's not like "doing things wrong", since he can be mentioned as the founder, mentor and all that...

You're skipping his character in the introduction of the X-Men to the MCU. In a world where mutants aren't even a classified species yet it makes zero sense to skip Charles' character when he is world's foremost leading geneticist in the field of mutation and evolution. He dedicated his life to studying the X-Gene. Who is going define what a "mutant" is? Who is going to debate anti-mutant politicans on TV? Jean? Hank? Cecilia Reyes? Forge? We're talking about establishing the building blocks here. Charles is ground zero and you can't have the X-Men without him. Now in the sequel, you want to have him go off into space somewhere with Lilandra and the Shi'ar, that's completely fine. But the foundation must be established first.

The reason why Scott, Jean and Ororo weren't in First Class is because they weren't born yet.

Yeah professor X needs to be there. We dont need a new introduction to the character with a complete origin though.

Right. Just introduce Charles Xavier as is, as a geneticist who has studied the X-gene and evolutionary patterns over the last 20 years.

 

[Zarex]

Charles can be a "presence" on the show without actually appearing. He led the team during their underground days, went away, and Scott and Jean are trying to bring the school back in the era of superheroes while staying true to Xavier's ideals. After a series in which Chuck and Erik dominated the screen at the expense of the team, I really would prefer the two take a break.