Dark of the Moon Michael Bay has killed Transformers for me - Part 1

[Mr. Para-Normal]

Like I have said many many times before NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SEE THESE MOVIES. Yes, you are entitled to your own opinions that's fine. But come on the constant crying is annoying now. We all get it some of you don't like these movies because they aren't how you wanted them. I respect the source material but I am not against the live action movies taking a different approach.

There is no need for this topic to exist anymore. You guys have been crying since 07. It's common sense I doubt any of you are really this dumb. If you hated the previous two movies don't bother seeing dark of the moon. Because all you gonna do is sit there and whine about what you didn't like. Save your self some money and say home and watch G1 cartoons. Period end discussion!

 

[Marvin]

it got really bad after the second film seemingly affirmed all the hate...the norm in this genre of movies is that they don't "suck" till the third.

what's interesting is a movie "dropping the ball" at the second totally opens the door for the quality of the third.

I'm sure this thread will take on a new purpose when that time comes around...
me laughing.

 

[mustachier]

As much as I would love to continue a discussion on how the rantings of over-dramatic fanboys makes the group look bad. However, since all you are going to do is repeat yourself, and ignore the explanations in my posts, I think we're done here.

I'm just doing the same thing you're doing... repeating my point over and over and over again.

My gripes about the Bay franchise; the Transformers themselves lack any true character development. They are the title characters and I couldn't care less about what happens to anybody besides Optimus Prime or Bumblebee... and even they are barely fleshed out (excuse my pun). I'm hoping that Dark of the Moon explores the actual Transformers moreso than the humans. There was waay too much focus on the humans in the first 2 movies. The desert scene itself was cumbersome and drawn out with waay too much human perspective. We get the idea, these are big robots... but how about this time around, we get to see some things from the Transformers perspective.

If you see these complaints as unreasonable, fanboy gripes... I guess I'm guilty. What I see in here is mostly complaints about the complainers though, I think the former needs to be the one to move on and let the conversation develop itself.

 

[mustachier]

In addition, I read a lot of, "nobody is forcing you to see/like these movies"... same could be said of everybody reading this thread. Nobody is forcing you to read the complaints, and as far as I can see, they are centralized to this thread. So what's the problem?

 

[Marvin]

That's an interesting point. You do realize it would probably be the first time in a live action movie that something like that happened with not human actors. I wouldn't mind seeing it myself.

Battle LA was the desert battle for a full movie oddly enough.

 

[Marvin]

another kid with a ruined childhood
[YT]UGSYoR7qBBg[/YT]

 

[CEREBRAL....]

I never said I misunderstood your point, I was saying that if people want to complain about a movie, then let them complain. If you want to argue with them about their gripes and complaints, then do so... but the moment you start complaining about their complaints... it becomes a matter of oppressing someone's opinion. If the complainers aren't being trolls... then they have every right to complain all they want.

here here!! this simple point gets looked over constantly, and just like "no one is forcing you to go see the movie" as others say...well NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO READ THIS THREAD.

In addition, I read a lot of, "nobody is forcing you to see/like these movies"... same could be said of everybody reading this thread. Nobody is forcing you to read the complaints, and as far as I can see, they are centralized to this thread. So what's the problem?

nevermind you beat me to it!!

 

[Drizzle]

what's interesting is a movie "dropping the ball" at the second totally opens the door for the quality of the third.

I find it interesting, too. There's only two franchises I can think of where the third film is leagues better than the second film: "Revenge of the Sith" was way better than "Attack of the Clones" (even though the Star Wars prequel trilogy didn't start off too strong to begin with) and "Predators" was much better than "Predator 2". If I were to bet, I'd say DOTM will be better than ROTF.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't mind criticisms of ROTF, it truely was a very successful disaster of a film. What I mind is the notion that Bay has "killed" Transformers or that the Transformers franchise has been "damaged" by Bay, if you think that you're legally insane. First of all, I thought the first movie did a very good job of adapting much of Transformers to a live-action genre. I think it also elevated the material by giving the military an active presence, and giving Spike "Sam" Witwicky an upgrade in character. Some of this continued into the next film, but that film certainly had a whole host of other problems. If anything though both films have served the Transformers brand very well, and have exploded their toy market so much so they have multiple unrelated lines of Transformers being sold by the planet-full every year.

My pet peeve honestly is all these fans who claim it's raping their childhood, mostly because they aren't real fans. Most diehards who have stuck with the franchise through it's many, and sometimes abysmal interpretations, some so bad it makes Bay look like James Cameron, don't complain near as much as a crowd of nostaglia fueled casual fans who are merely piecing together what bits and pieces they remember from 25 years ago. If that sounds a wee bit condescending, it is. They've been making Transformers for over two decades, Michael Bay is far from the only person to make large scale drastic changes. Also, as far as elevating the fiction goes, he probably produced their best non-comic fiction with the first film. I cannot think of anything Transformers has done on television that would rival that. I'm sure some would argue that, but I disagree. Transformers was the first thing they did which wasn't warped by Hasbro to be a giant toy commercial, despite the fact that Bay kept the commercial "feel" to the film (Although some of the tie-in fiction is influenced by the movie toyline).

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Also, as far as elevating the fiction goes, he probably produced their best non-comic fiction with the first film. I cannot think of anything Transformers has done on television that would rival that.

I really dont see much of an "elevation" fiction wise with the first film.

I believe Beast Wars and certainly Beast Machines did far more elevating to the fiction then the first Bay film.

 

[Mace Dolex]

I don't mind criticisms of ROTF, it truely was a very successful disaster of a film. What I mind is the notion that Bay has "killed" Transformers or that the Transformers franchise has been "damaged" by Bay, if you think that you're legally insane. First of all, I thought the first movie did a very good job of adapting much of Transformers to a live-action genre. I think it also elevated the material by giving the military an active presence, and giving Spike "Sam" Witwicky an upgrade in character. Some of this continued into the next film, but that film certainly had a whole host of other problems. If anything though both films have served the Transformers brand very well, and have exploded their toy market so much so they have multiple unrelated lines of Transformers being sold by the planet-full every year.

My pet peeve honestly is all these fans who claim it's raping their childhood, mostly because they aren't real fans. Most diehards who have stuck with the franchise through it's many, and sometimes abysmal interpretations, some so bad it makes Bay look like James Cameron, don't complain near as much as a crowd of nostaglia fueled casual fans who are merely piecing together what bits and pieces they remember from 25 years ago. If that sounds a wee bit condescending, it is. They've been making Transformers for over two decades, Michael Bay is far from the only person to make large scale drastic changes. Also, as far as elevating the fiction goes, he probably produced their best non-comic fiction with the first film. I cannot think of anything Transformers has done on television that would rival that. I'm sure some would argue that, but I disagree. Transformers was the first thing they did which wasn't warped by Hasbro to be a giant toy commercial, despite the fact that Bay kept the commercial "feel" to the film (Although some of the tie-in fiction is influenced by the movie toyline).

Well put, all these people complaining about Bay and ROTF aren't true TF fans but merely came onto the franchise only after the nostalgia was there and can't look past the changes.

A real fan like me has been there with the brand since 1984 and I never gave up on it even when others put it aside as a kids toy and the toy cancellation in the 90's.

When Beast Wars came out I was excited that Hasbro still had faith in the brand, I might not have like what they did with it changing the vehicle format to animals but I didn't complain.

If it wasn't for BW we might not have gotten the kick start to brand new toys, reissue of the originals, new comics and Steven Speilberg showing interest.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Well put, all these people complaining about Bay and ROTF aren't true TF fans but merely came onto the franchise only after the nostalgia was there and can't look past the changes.

Sorry if this sounds rude but......thats Total ignorant BS.

I have been a TF fan since day 1.I even collected the diaclones before the TF franchise started.

I enjoyed the first film a bit....but yes, I have my complaints about Bay and his films.

I have never given up on the franchise, even when I hated what was being dont, the Unicron trilogy for example.

I wasnt trilled when I heard of the Beast Wars concept, but it was so well writen/produced that it proved my doubts wrong.

I gave Bay's films the same chances, so far they havent failed to disappoint.

But I'll give the 3rd installment the same chance I have given every incarnation of the brand.But I dont think it will do much better then the last 2 films.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

^ Yes, but you don't go around claiming that these movies ruined your childhood or that you've completely given up on TF. That's what the others are talking about.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

^ Yes, but you don't go around claiming that these movies ruined your childhood or that you've completely given up on TF. That's what the others are talking about.

True, some people tend to get over emotional.

I dont understand people who claim what they think is the crap of today can ruin what they thought was great in the past.

 

[Mr. Para-Normal]

You guys are right. No one is forcing us to view this topic like no one is forcing dislikers to see the movie. I just don't understand the logic behind the constant complaints still after two movies. I certainly wouldn't go see the 3rd movie to a franchise if I hated the previous two nor would I waste time griping about it from 2007 to 2011. But whatever, you guys have to right to complain still if you want. That's you just know that it dosent change anything the film is done. All you can do is complain and wait for a reboot and hope that it's done YOUR way. Even still I doubt complainers would be happy.


So I will continue to enjoy both the source material and the live action films. I am done with this topic. Have fun guys! The closer we get to release new footage and info will be out for you guys to gripe about!

 

[CEREBRAL....]

^ Yes, but you don't go around claiming that these movies ruined your childhood or that you've completely given up on TF. That's what the others are talking about.

^^honestly..i really think some of you are too sensitive..so what, that's how someone described their feelings for the film, not one of you can not tell me you have gone on any other forum (doesnt have to do with comic books or films) just about any forum talking about whatever and not get this same reaction. They're just words...kind of like when your joking around with your friends telling a story and exaggerating a little....there just words man...people on here need to get over the whole term "ruining my childhood"

maybe not their childhood but the way they remembered TF and their characters...good lawd already.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

You guys are right. No one is forcing us to view this topic like no one is forcing dislikers to see the movie. I just don't understand the logic behind the constant complaints still after two movies.

what is there not to understand..people didnt like it, and are voicing their opinions...someone got onto a free forum decided to make a thread about disliking the film, and others who shared their view decided to add their two cents...i mean really it's not that hard

it's free forum, kind of like american....freedom of speech!

 

[mustachier]

That's an interesting point. You do realize it would probably be the first time in a live action movie that something like that happened with not human actors. I wouldn't mind seeing it myself.

That's a pretty vague and broad statement, as I can think of a few movies where a non-human's perspective was shown vs a human's... though I might be misinterpreting your statement. I seriously doubt that Bay will change this film around enough to jeopardize the human connection with the audience that he has established with the first 2 films. It's perhaps, beyond his scope.

Battle LA was the desert battle for a full movie oddly enough.

Yes... I concur. I fell asleep during the movie.

 

[mustachier]

Well put, all these people complaining about Bay and ROTF aren't true TF fans but merely came onto the franchise only after the nostalgia was there and can't look past the changes.

A real fan like me has been there with the brand since 1984 and I never gave up on it even when others put it aside as a kids toy and the toy cancellation in the 90's.

Bolded statements like this really amuse me. Who are you to question someone's commitment to anything that they might feel passionate enough about to voice their opinion in a valid, non-trollish manner? The parts of your statement that I bolded are more trollish than many of the other things I've read in this thread. You're elevating yourself above people who might not like what they see in these movies... that makes you more of a real fan than them? That's absurd.

 

[Marvin]

That's a pretty vague and broad statement, as I can think of a few movies where a non-human's perspective was shown vs a human's... though I might be misinterpreting your statement. I seriously doubt that Bay will change this film around enough to jeopardize the human connection with the audience that he has established with the first 2 films. It's perhaps, beyond his scope.

It's simple, I can't remember a film that didn't star human actors and wasn't told from their perspective and was shot in life action. Just doesn't seem possible given the executive mind. Yet we all demand it of bayformers...

Animated films do it 50% of the time, but live action? I'm thinking no.
But I could be wrong(that'd be a first)

Yes... I concur. I fell asleep during the movie.

Yea but the desert scene in ROTF is considered one of the most "whack" battle scenes ever whereas that other film is just forgotten, and this has always been my problem.

perhaps it's the existence of TF fans that give the film any discussion at all, moreover give it a successful box office where as the other "bad" films that aren't as "bad" as bay formers just bomb.

it's an interesting trend.

 

[Mr. Para-Normal]

what is there not to understand..people didnt like it, and are voicing their opinions...someone got onto a free forum decided to make a thread about disliking the film, and others who shared their view decided to add their two cents...i mean really it's not that hard

it's free forum, kind of like american....freedom of speech!

Thats fine and dandy but come on... WE GET IT some hardcore guys don't like Bay's take on TF. We have seen and heard your complaints since the first movie came out which was in 2007. Here it is 2011 and a new movie and you guys are still here complaining about the same things you have been since 2007. What else is there to complain about? You hated TF 1 and 2 you will most likely hate dark of the moon. So your still here just to complain some more?


There are a ton of other movies comming out this year and next year that I am sure some of you are bound to like. Why not join the hype for those movies instead of complaining about a movie that is already done filming? Bay has his own take and some like it some don't. Your complaints are not going to change anything about Bay's movies.


And if these movies killed your love of TF then I don't think your a real fan of TF. I was'nt crazy about X-men 3 or X-men Origins Wolverine or Spider man 3 but I did'nt let those movies kill my love for the characters or franchise. I was'nt like Sam Rami killed my love for Spidey, or Brett Ratner destroyed my love of X-men. No.. I expressed my opinions and then moved on with my life.


I just think haters of the current TF films should either just deal with what we have until a reboot comes along. Maybe the reboot will make you happy, maybe not until then get over it. Bay's movies really put TF into the mainstream and thats a good thing. Prior to the first movie TF was not really popular with anyone outside of the TF hardcore fanbase. These movies have had a positve impact for TF by bringing in new fans and a renewed popularity. That means new toys, comics, cartoons, and video games. That should please any TF fan.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I am done with my rant lol.

I'm pretty sure you made a similar claim already.

I am done with this topic.

Yep.

 

[Mr. Para-Normal]

I'm pretty sure you made a similar claim already.



Yep.

I am done lol. Seriously

 

[Jake Cassidy]

^^honestly..i really think some of you are too sensitive..so what, that's how someone described their feelings for the film, not one of you can not tell me you have gone on any other forum (doesnt have to do with comic books or films) just about any forum talking about whatever and not get this same reaction. They're just words...kind of like when your joking around with your friends telling a story and exaggerating a little....there just words man...people on here need to get over the whole term "ruining my childhood"

maybe not their childhood but the way they remembered TF and their characters...good lawd already.

It doesn't bother me. I was just explaining to sto what the others were talking about.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Live action Transformers was destined to be very human focused, you can blame a variety of factors for this, but if you're going to have actors portraying humans you have to give them a lot of focus. Otherwise they'd simply make another animated movie. If you're only going to use live-action actors for, say, 1/4th of the film, then you've effectively made an animated feature, and might as well animate the whole thing.