Dark of the Moon Michael Bay has killed Transformers for me - Part 1

[Hotwire]

Bolded statements like this really amuse me. Who are you to question someone's commitment to anything that they might feel passionate enough about to voice their opinion in a valid, non-trollish manner? The parts of your statement that I bolded are more trollish than many of the other things I've read in this thread. You're elevating yourself above people who might not like what they see in these movies... that makes you more of a real fan than them? That's absurd.

He's just stating his opinion. Something you have already said we have the right to do. You disagree, but who are you to tell him his opinion is wrong?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

He's just stating his opinion. Something you have already said we have the right to do. You disagree, but who are you to tell him his opinion is wrong?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and to speak them......but opinions can be wrong.

Anyone who's opinion is that he is a greater fan because he hasnt complained about the Bay films, or feels he can pass judgment on all fans that complain is wrong.

 

[Mace Dolex]

Live action Transformers was destined to be very human focused, you can blame a variety of factors for this, but if you're going to have actors portraying humans you have to give them a lot of focus. Otherwise they'd simply make another animated movie. If you're only going to use live-action actors for, say, 1/4th of the film, then you've effectively made an animated feature, and might as well animate the whole thing.

I mentioned the very same thing in other thread but I like the way you worded it, exactly what I was thinking.

A full 2 hour movie with all CGI robots will definitely put some people off since they'll already be complaining trying to distinguish one TF from the other which is why you need actual human actors to counter balance between both.

A good example I can think of is in Matrix Revolutions with all the battles with those metallic slug like things that wanted me to yell at the screen, it all was boring.

 

[Marvin]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and to speak them......but opinions can be wrong.

Anyone who's opinion is that he is a greater fan because he hasnt complained about the Bay films, or feels he can pass judgment on all fans that complain is wrong.

Cricits that question an audience's intelligence for liking a film are also wrong
if I may.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Cricits that question an audience's intelligence for liking a film are also wrong
if I may.

I'm not sure if you were directing that at me or not?

Did I somehow question an audience's intelligence??

 

[Marvin]

I'm not sure if you were directing that at me or not?

Did I somehow question an audience's intelligence??

I was referring to the professionals actually

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I was referring to the professionals actually

Ahh

 

[CEREBRAL....]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and to speak them......but opinions can be wrong.

Anyone who's opinion is that he is a greater fan because he hasnt complained about the Bay films, or feels he can pass judgment on all fans that complain is wrong.

well spoken.....

 

[Marvin]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and to speak them......but opinions can be wrong.

Anyone who's opinion is that he is a greater fan because he hasnt complained about the Bay films, or feels he can pass judgment on all fans that complain is wrong.

^opinion

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I mentioned the very same thing in other thread but I like the way you worded it, exactly what I was thinking.

A full 2 hour movie with all CGI robots will definitely put some people off since they'll already be complaining trying to distinguish one TF from the other which is why you need actual human actors to counter balance between both.

A good example I can think of is in Matrix Revolutions with all the battles with those metallic slug like things that wanted me to yell at the screen, it all was boring.

Well you don't need sets and special effects if actors are not going to be interacting with Transformers (that much). If you're going through all the trouble of making so it appears Shia is actually standing next to a giant robot car you better get your damn money's worth. If the production is so CGI heavy that you only need real sets for a fraction of the film, then screw it and just animated the whole thing. You could easily DO an all CGI Transformers film, but live-action is a different storytelling medium with different demands. Maybe you'd waste some extra money on MoCap or something.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

well spoken.....

Thank you.

^opinion

Yes it it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

One of the things I noticed in Revenge of the Fallen was how awkward the scene in space with the Fallen, Megatron and Starscream was. I thought the CGI throughout the film was excellent, and even as good as it was in that particular scene it still was jarring and felt like I was watching an animated film in the middle of a live action film. Like something out of Enchanted or Who Framed Roger Rabbit?. I think even if you handed Bay a blank check, it would still be awkward to make a robot-centered movie.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I really dont see much of an "elevation" fiction wise with the first film.

I believe Beast Wars and certainly Beast Machines did far more elevating to the fiction then the first Bay film.

Why? Because they introduced a bunch of mythos by fanwanking all the convoluted elements of the comic and TV show into one storyline? Beast Wars was good, excellent in terms of TF fiction, but it wasn't groundbreaking and I'd consider the show about average. In my opinion most of what made that show only really mattered to Transformers nerds. The shows best episodes aren't as approachible to a general audience as the first Transformers movie was. I never thought Transformers did a very good job of telling the human's story until the first film.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Why? Because they introduced a bunch of mythos by fanwanking all the convoluted elements of the comic and TV show into one storyline? Beast Wars was good, excellent in terms of TF fiction, but it wasn't groundbreaking and I'd consider the show about average. In my opinion most of what made that show only really mattered to Transformers nerds. The shows best episodes aren't as approachible to a general audience as the first Transformers movie was. I never thought Transformers did a very good job of telling the human's story until the first film.

"elevation of fiction" at least to me, is not a measure of how approachable or accessible the show/episode may be to a general audience, but how enjoyable and well produced the show/episode is to the main fan base.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

"elevation of fiction" at least to me, is not a measure of how approachable or accessible the show/episode may be to a general audience, but how enjoyable and well produced the show/episode is to the main fan base.

No offense, that's a horrible metric. Most fans will tolerate or even love downright crap produced by their franchises. Comic books have always been a shining example of this.

 

[mustachier]

He's just stating his opinion. Something you have already said we have the right to do. You disagree, but who are you to tell him his opinion is wrong?

Where did I state that his opinion was wrong? What's your point? If you can show me where I said exactly that, then we might have something to work off of. If not, then you really don't have a point.

Let me save you the trouble, I implied that calling yourself a true fan and saying that people who disagree with your opinion are not true fans is borderline trollish. Simple as that. I don't understand why you're grasping for straws where there are none.

 

[mustachier]

Live action Transformers was destined to be very human focused, you can blame a variety of factors for this, but if you're going to have actors portraying humans you have to give them a lot of focus. Otherwise they'd simply make another animated movie. If you're only going to use live-action actors for, say, 1/4th of the film, then you've effectively made an animated feature, and might as well animate the whole thing.

Spoiler

Avatar

 

[Marvin]

No offense, that's a horrible metric. Most fans will tolerate or even love downright crap produced by their franchises. Comic books have always been a shining example of this.

apparently not

 

[Marvin]

Spoiler

Avatar

another example that doesn't even come close to what fanboys are asking bay to do with transformers.

 

[mustachier]

I was just providing an example that live action films would be able to incorporate non animated characters while keeping the focus of the story on the animated characters.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

No offense, that's a horrible metric. Most fans will tolerate or even love downright crap produced by their franchises. Comic books have always been a shining example of this.

None taken.....and I'm sure I dont agree.

Sure, fans end up having to live with crap [like you said Comic books great example] but I really dont see us loving or tolerating it.

We ***** and complain all over the place.It just doesnt get us anywhere.

 

[Marvin]

I was just providing an example that live action films would be able to incorporate non animated characters while keeping the focus of the story on the animated characters.

The problem is that said movie is another hollywood film with humans at the forefront and center. Not all that diff from Bayformers except for the fact it doesn't have a rabid fan base eager to pounce for not getting rid of the humans.

The only reason said movie does seem slightly more about the animated aliens than the robots in bayformers is because it doesn't take place on earth. But let's be honest, an avatar movie without a human presence or human centric story...not happening.

 

[mustachier]

How about Wall-E? Fairly successful movie about a robot. Not that I remember too much about it, I wasn't that impressed with it.

 

[Marvin]

that would be a great example if it was live action
(it has it's share of humans I think)

movie was alright, slightly overrated imo.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Spoiler

Avatar

Avatar was very human focused