Most powerful Marvel character we have seen on screen so far?

[Silver Spider]

as for those who say the surfer's too fast, ghost rider has his change and the surfer doesn't have a force field (as you noticed he had to slap missles away), meaning he could whip round the surfer and take him off his board (or drag them both down).

Since we don't see the surfer's 'strength' in any shape or form, one could argue ghost rider is strong enough to hold on or drag him and his board down once attached to his chain and then it's all about the pennace stare.

The Surfer could just phase through any of GR's attacks. And I doubt the Rider could sneak up on ol' Norrin, I mean he knew he was being monitored and destroyed the machine tracking him and he could sense Sue when she was Invisible.

 

[Matt Murdock]

Mephisto has the power to alter reality.

The Silver Surfer doesn't.

'Nuff said.

 

[the a1ant]

storm, are you joking????

err.. what about magneto of xavier who nearly killed everyone on the planet or I dunno, Mephisto or any other person who doesn't get beat up by characters with elvis styled haircuts...

Storm could easily electrocute Magneto to death, if she wanted. Xavier has the upper hand being able to tell when she'd strike, she still might be able to strike before he can do anything about it. Xavier almost killed everyone on the planet with the aid of Cerebro...not him alone.

Don't hate.

 

[Savage]

Storm could easily electrocute Magneto to death,

Gotta wonder why she didn't do that for 3 movies straight.

 

[X-Maniac]

Cool thread!

Well, seeing as Phoenix's power hadn't been seen at full potential but was described as without limits, the movie version has got some fierce power at her disposal. As Magneto tells her: 'You can do anything, anything you can think of.' She allowed herself to be stabbed to death, but if she didn't allow it, it wouldn't happen. She'd turn Hulk back into Banner with a thought, atomise Ghost Rider's chain and turn him back to normal Blaze.

Against Silver Surfer, I'm not sure. Comicbook Phoenix defeated a Galactus herald (Firelord) and I'm betting that movie Phoenix would give movie Surfer a good run for his money. His power comes from the board and he can be separated by a tachyon field. If she could separate him from the board, he'd be a goner.

I think the only one against whom she could be defeated would be Galactus, and she'd give him a run for his money.

Movie versions of Magneto and Storm are more vulnerable than the comicbook versions with more specific, smaller-scale, non-global powers, so they'd be out of the fight fairly early on. Storm and Magneto would be fairly evenly matched in the movies, though he has the edge (as we saw at Alcatraz when Storm failed to do anything against his burning car attacks).

 

[Savage]

Cool thread!

Well, seeing as Phoenix's power hadn't been seen at full potential but was described as without limits, the movie version has got some fierce power at her disposal. As Magneto tells her: 'You can do anything, anything you can think of.' She allowed herself to be stabbed to death, but if she didn't allow it, it wouldn't happen. She'd turn Hulk back into Banner with a thought, atomise Ghost Rider's chain and turn him back to normal Blaze.

When did it show she had that ability? That's more Mephisto's deal. I can see him doing that. Pheonix looks like all she can do is fry the crap out of things in the movie.

Against Silver Surfer, I'm not sure. Comicbook Phoenix defeated a Galactus herald (Firelord) and I'm betting that movie Phoenix would give movie Surfer a good run for his money. His power comes from the board and he can be separated by a tachyon field. If she could separate him from the board, he'd be a goner.

Hope she has the ability to create a tachyon field then or she's 10 kinds of boned.

I think the only one against whom she could be defeated would be Galactus, and she'd give him a run for his money.

Something else I doubt since her powers barely phased Wolverine. It looks like she was giving him all she had until the last moment. I think the Hulk and Surfer would just find her annoying more than anything else and Ghost Rider would walk up to her and punch her unconscious.

 

[Drizzle]

I'd say Phoenix, by default. Silver Surfer was impressive, too.

 

[X-Maniac]

When did it show she had that ability? That's more Mephisto's deal. I can see him doing that. Pheonix looks like all she can do is fry the crap out of things in the movie.

As I stated, Magneto tells her: "You can do anything, anything you can think of". We never got to see her full unlimited power, because she allowed herself to die a human rather than become an all-powerful corrupted god. But her power goes far beyond 'frying the crap' if she can do 'anything she can think of.' We saw anti-gravitational effects for starters, in a deleted scene she created a controlled nuclear reaction from nothing more than a metal cup. The movie didn't show her at full limitless power because it wasn't going to show her nuking the world, but it clearly described she could do anything she could think of; and also Beast says her powers have no limits, and Xavier calls her abilities 'practically limitless.' Based on that, it goes beyond the odd bit of 'frying.'

Hope she has the ability to create a tachyon field then or she's 10 kinds of boned.

If she can do anything she can think of, she can create a tachyon field if she knows that's what must be created. He gets his power from the board, she is power itself, so it sounds like he might be the one getting boned.

Something else I doubt since her powers barely phased Wolverine. It looks like she was giving him all she had until the last moment. I think the Hulk and Surfer would just find her annoying more than anything else and Ghost Rider would walk up to her and punch her unconscious.

Once again, she was torturing and taunting Wolverine. She wanted to die (she begs wolverine to kill her earlier in the movie) but the malevolent Phoenix personality was toying with him as he dared to approach. If she wanted to rip him apart, she would have done. Ghost Rider couldn't get near enough for a Penance Stare. She'd also be telepathically aware of the intentions of her attackers and able to counteract accordingly.

 

[Savage]

As I stated, Magneto tells her: "You can do anything, anything you can think of". We never got to see her full unlimited power, because she allowed herself to die a human rather than become an all-powerful corrupted god. But her power goes far beyond 'frying the crap' if she can do 'anything she can think of.' We saw anti-gravitational effects for starters, in a deleted scene she created a controlled nuclear reaction from nothing more than a metal cup. The movie didn't show her at full limitless power because it wasn't going to show her nuking the world, but it clearly described she could do anything she could think of; and also Beast says her powers have no limits, and Xavier calls her abilities 'practically limitless.' Based on that, it goes beyond the odd bit of 'frying.'

Well they did a lousy job showing this "limitless power" or ran out of money or something because what I saw was "Oh I guess she can demoleculerize things now". The fact that you have to throw deleted scenes in there proves my point even further that they did a lousy job showing her unlimited power. If you need deleted scenes or a novel for proof then the film makers did a crappy job. We are basing things off of what we DID get to see. What was onscreen for those moments we saw these character. Pheonix in all her glory honestly wasn't too impressive.

Silver Surfer sucked a being even larger than the earth into himself. His mere presence shut off lights and froze oceans. He put holes in the earth. Pheonix doesn't come close. Mephisto alters the fabric of reality itself. Galactus eats planets. Ghost Rider is literally an unstoppable force of nature in the dark and Pheonix...well...someone said she can do anything so I guess it must be true.

If she can do anything she can think of, she can create a tachyon field if she knows that's what must be created. He gets his power from the board, she is power itself, so it sounds like he might be the one getting boned.

We're talking about movie Pheonix. Not comic book Pheonix. If she could have done anything then she would have done more than destroy a little islet off the coast of San Francisco. I think Magneto was just motivating her with his little speech more than anything else. Nothing I saw in that movie was past Silver Surfer's power level. What she did to that island took the Surfer just a clap to accomplish and fly off.

Once again, she was torturing and taunting Wolverine. She wanted to die (she begs wolverine to kill her earlier in the movie) but the malevolent Phoenix personality was toying with him as he dared to approach. If she wanted to rip him apart, she would have done. Ghost Rider couldn't get near enough for a Penance Stare. She'd also be telepathically aware of the intentions of her attackers and able to counteract accordingly.

Where? Where did it say she was torturing and taunting Wolverine? Where did she show any intentions of stopping? Why Wolverine and not Cyclops? If she has enough control to NOT obliterate people then why couldn't she? What I saw was the people without healing factors dying and the guy with a healing factor not dying. Just putting 2 and 2 together.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well they did a lousy job showing this "limitless power" or ran out of money or something because what I saw was "Oh I guess she can demoleculerize things now". The fact that you have to throw deleted scenes in there proves my point even further that they did a lousy job showing her unlimited power. If you need deleted scenes or a novel for proof then the film makers did a crappy job. We are basing things off of what we DID get to see. What was onscreen for those moments we saw these character. Pheonix in all her glory honestly wasn't too impressive.

Silver Surfer sucked a being even larger than the earth into himself. His mere presence shut off lights and froze oceans. He put holes in the earth. Pheonix doesn't come close. Mephisto alters the fabric of reality itself. Galactus eats planets. Ghost Rider is literally an unstoppable force of nature in the dark and Pheonix...well...someone said she can do anything so I guess it must be true.

We're not just talking about what we saw. That's silly. We're talking about the information we are given. As I stated, she never attained her full power in the movie because the Jean Grey part of her wanted to die a human and not let the Phoenix personality consume everything. If Xavier says her abilities are 'practically limitless' and Beast says she has no limits, then that's information on the character. We didn't need to see her nuking a star system or devouring several galaxies as light snacks - that's not what this movie was about. This wasn't a Star Wars movie, the point is that 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' as Magneto says at the start of the movie. He also says she can do anything she can think of; the knowledge of it and the threat of it is enough. We didn't need to see the earth turned into toast, and it wouldn't be much of an X-Men movie if every single person on earth and in the universe dies. You are being ridiculous.

We're talking about movie Pheonix. Not comic book Pheonix. If she could have done anything then she would have done more than destroy a little islet off the coast of San Francisco. I think Magneto was just motivating her with his little speech more than anything else. Nothing I saw in that movie was past Silver Surfer's power level. What she did to that island took the Surfer just a clap to accomplish and fly off.

See above response. You are still being ridiculous and ignoring the information presented in the movie. Beast, Magneto and Xavier all described her power as limitless and absolute, therefore it was. End of argument. And this is movie Phoenix, comicbook Phoenix is another thing altogether.

Where? Where did it say she was torturing and taunting Wolverine? Where did she show any intentions of stopping? Why Wolverine and not Cyclops? If she has enough control to NOT obliterate people then why couldn't she? What I saw was the people without healing factors dying and the guy with a healing factor not dying. Just putting 2 and 2 together.

Clearly she was toying with him. It didn't need to come up in a subtitle across the bottom of the screen, unless you want a special version for dumb people to be made. If she can do anything and destroy anyone, why is she allowing him to come near? His adamantium might slow down her destructive powers at this early stage of her ascendance to godhood, but she'd be able to atomise him eventually if she wanted. She stood there and watched him dare to approach. Earlier in the movie, she begs him to kill her. This time she wanted it. He was being allowed to get near her for a reason. This is as obvious as night and day; I feel disappointed and sad for you that you missed all this.

 

[Savage]

We're not just talking about what we saw. That's silly. We're talking about the information we are given. As I stated, she never attained her full power in the movie because the Jean Grey part of her wanted to die a human and not let the Phoenix personality consume everything. If Xavier says her abilities are 'practically limitless' and Beast says she has no limits, then that's information on the character. We didn't need to see her nuking a star system or devouring several galaxies as light snacks - that's not what this movie was about. This wasn't a Star Wars movie, the point is that 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely' as Magneto says at the start of the movie. He also says she can do anything she can think of; the knowledge of it and the threat of it is enough. We didn't need to see the earth turned into toast, and it wouldn't be much of an X-Men movie if every single person on earth and in the universe dies. You are being ridiculous.



See above response. You are still being ridiculous and ignoring the information presented in the movie. Beast, Magneto and Xavier all described her power as limitless and absolute, therefore it was. End of argument. And this is movie Phoenix, comicbook Phoenix is another thing altogether.

Did we need to see the earth nuked in the comics to know that Pheonix could do anything she wanted? No. She showed her power in other ways. The movie didn't even bother to. You're being ridiculous by basing everything on someone's word. Just because I say "This guy's so powerful he can do anything he wants." does not mean literally he can imagine something and poof it's there. If that were the case she'd just bring Cyclops back to life since she was so distraught over his death. Saying someone is the most powerful being in the universe is one thing but I bet if anyone tried to describe a planet eating monster to Professor Xavier he'd just laugh and say no more froot loops before bed.

Clearly she was toying with him. It didn't need to come up in a subtitle across the bottom of the screen, unless you want a special version for dumb people to be made. If she can do anything and destroy anyone, why is she allowing him to come near? His adamantium might slow down her destructive powers at this early stage of her ascendance to godhood, but she'd be able to atomise him eventually if she wanted. She stood there and watched him dare to approach. Earlier in the movie, she begs him to kill her. This time she wanted it. He was being allowed to get near her for a reason. This is as obvious as night and day; I feel disappointed and sad for you that you missed all this.

You just proved my point! If she can do anything and destroy anyone then why IS she letting him come near? Answer ladies and gentlemen? She can't! She CAN'T do anything and destroy everyone or else she would have. She showed no hesitation in killing the man she loved, the man she CHOSE over Wolverine, and yet Wolverine shows up and "after killing this island full of people, my mentor, and the love of my life, I'm just going to mess with this one guy". Get out of here with that.

Yes she begs him to kill her when she's able to fight it off and be in control. There's no middle about it. She's either in control or she isn't. If she was able to fight it off even as close to the level you say she can we wouldn't have a dead Cyclops and Xavier to ***** about. Wolverine's not special or she would have chose him.

Thank you for being condescending by the way. Makes me feel better about being the bigger man in an internet conversation about movies and not stooping down to your level.

 

[X-Maniac]

Did we need to see the earth nuked in the comics to know that Pheonix could do anything she wanted? No. She showed her power in other ways. The movie didn't even bother to. You're being ridiculous by basing everything on someone's word. Just because I say "This guy's so powerful he can do anything he wants." does not mean literally he can imagine something and poof it's there. If that were the case she'd just bring Cyclops back to life since she was so distraught over his death. Saying someone is the most powerful being in the universe is one thing but I bet if anyone tried to describe a planet eating monster to Professor Xavier he'd just laugh and say no more froot loops before bed.

First you ask why we didn't see limitless power, then you say we didn't need to see the earth nuked. You can't have it all ways. There's no way this movie was going to show 'limitless power', especially when she hadn't attained it fully. She's only beginning to get going at the end of the movie on Alcatraz, when she raises Phoenix-like talons of water hundreds/thousands of feet in the air around the island and destroys hundreds of soldiers.

Remember, Jean's full power (locked away by Xavier) developed a malevolent personality (Phoenix). Jean could only safely control a part of it. When Jean Grey tried to wield all that power she suddenly had access to, in order to block and cancel Cyclops' eye blasts at the lake, she killed Cyclops. The Phoenix personality that came with the power was then reborn and fighting for control. If it wanted to bring Cyclops back, it would have done. Jean by herself was not capable of wielding/controlling that level of power, it was her Phoenix alter-ego that did. (In an early script version, Mystique died and was later restored out of thin air by Phoenix for a griefstricken Magneto... yes, not in the movie, but nonetheless proving the basic idea of that potential being given to the character)

You just proved my point! If she can do anything and destroy anyone then why IS she letting him come near? Answer ladies and gentlemen? She can't! She CAN'T do anything and destroy everyone or else she would have. She showed no hesitation in killing the man she loved, the man she CHOSE over Wolverine, and yet Wolverine shows up and "after killing this island full of people, my mentor, and the love of my life, I'm just going to mess with this one guy". Get out of here with that.

Yes she begs him to kill her when she's able to fight it off and be in control. There's no middle about it. She's either in control or she isn't. If she was able to fight it off even as close to the level you say she can we wouldn't have a dead Cyclops and Xavier to ***** about. Wolverine's not special or she would have chose him.

No, you're wrong. Jean and her Phoenix alter-ego formed a bond with Wolverine. Phoenix and Wolverine shared a primal rage and lust. The unrestrained Phoenix tries to seduce Wolverine in the infirmary. Wolverine furiously tells Xavier 'when you cage the beast, the beast gets angry', clearly speaking from experience and a reference to himself as well as to Phoenix. Jean begs to be killed, she mentally contacts Wolverine (after joining Magneto) and calls him to the forest encampment. Clearly there is a bond between them. This is in the movie, and is also backed up by other sources (a Chris Claremont interview years ago described the affinity between Wolverine and Phoenix, both barbaric, primal characters.) Wolverine was an anchor in the mental turmoil in the mind of Jean/Phoenix, through his love/respect for Jean and his more animalistic similarity to Phoenix. Regardless of Cyclops' role in the comics, we are looking at what the movies are depicting.

Wolverine dares to approach Phoenix. His healing power and adamantium enables this to be possible, along with the bond he has with her, even though she could easily turn on him with full focus. When he appeals to her human side ('No, not for them, for you'), the Phoenix personality retreats for a moment, Jean regains some control (we see the eyes change to normal), and he kills her.

Thank you for being condescending by the way. Makes me feel better about being the bigger man in an internet conversation about movies and not stooping down to your level.

I feel quite justified in what I said. You reveal an incredibly limited understanding and dreadfully inaccurate interpretation of what was in the movie. May I suggest you rewatch several times with a print-out of my posts at hand. I aim to enlighten. I am increasingly being made aware that many opinions on this movie are born out of misunderstanding. The movie shows us things, without subtitles or a little man popping up at the side of the screen with an explanation; it expects us to use our comprehension skills.

 

[Savage]

First you ask why we didn't see limitless power, then you say we didn't need to see the earth nuked. You can't have it all ways.

Sure I can. I didn't need to see the Silver Surfer nuke the earth to know how powerful he was. Just have him calmly pop a hole in it. Tadaaa. Power.

There's no way this movie was going to show 'limitless power', especially when she hadn't attained it fully. She's only beginning to get going at the end of the movie on Alcatraz, when she raises Phoenix-like talons of water hundreds/thousands of feet in the air around the island and destroys hundreds of soldiers.

Remember, Jean's full power (locked away by Xavier) developed a malevolent personality (Phoenix). Jean could only safely control a part of it. When Jean Grey tried to wield all that power she suddenly had access to, in order to block and cancel Cyclops' eye blasts at the lake, she killed Cyclops. The Phoenix personality that came with the power was then reborn and fighting for control. If it wanted to bring Cyclops back, it would have done. Jean by herself was not capable of wielding/controlling that level of power, it was her Phoenix alter-ego that did. (In an early script version, Mystique died and was later restored out of thin air by Phoenix for a griefstricken Magneto... yes, not in the movie, but nonetheless proving the basic idea of that potential being given to the character)

You're actually making sense here. You're right. Pheonix is the one with the power and not Jean. Which is why I don't think Jean fighting the Pheonix had anything to do with Wolverine surviving because clearly she's no match for her and her raw power and emotion. Cyclops is almost understandable when you look at it as a first offense but I think she would have stopped herself at Professor Xavier if there was anybody to stop at. It would have been him that she was begging to kill her.

No, you're wrong. Jean and her Phoenix alter-ego formed a bond with Wolverine. Phoenix and Wolverine shared a primal rage and lust. The unrestrained Phoenix tries to seduce Wolverine in the infirmary. Wolverine furiously tells Xavier 'when you cage the beast, the beast gets angry', clearly speaking from experience and a reference to himself as well as to Phoenix. Jean begs to be killed, she mentally contacts Wolverine (after joining Magneto) and calls him to the forest encampment. Clearly there is a bond between them. This is in the movie, and is also backed up by other sources (a Chris Claremont interview years ago described the affinity between Wolverine and Phoenix, both barbaric, primal characters.) Wolverine was an anchor in the mental turmoil in the mind of Jean/Phoenix, through his love/respect for Jean and his more animalistic similarity to Phoenix. Regardless of Cyclops' role in the comics, we are looking at what the movies are depicting.

Wolverine dares to approach Phoenix. His healing power and adamantium enables this to be possible, along with the bond he has with her, even though she could easily turn on him with full focus. When he appeals to her human side ('No, not for them, for you'), the Phoenix personality retreats for a moment, Jean regains some control (we see the eyes change to normal), and he kills her.

Yeah, okay, I think you missed something here. Pheonix is as primal as it gets and operates on raw emotion. Wolverine makes Jean hot but she's not in love with the guy. Now a being like Pheonix, instead of having any self control acts on that desire. There is no "bond" in which you speak of. Wolverine may relate to The Pheonix but The Pheonix does not relate to Wolverine and can easily smack him around like anybody else with no remorse whatsoever. The impression that I got was that that little girl we saw in the beginning IS The Pheonix we got. She was locked away and never grew up. If something got in her way she threw a tantrum and destroyed it. That simple. This is why I believe she was going full force at the end of the movie. Pheonix does not hold back. That goes against her nature (according to the rules set in the movie anyway).

I feel quite justified in what I said. You reveal an incredibly limited understanding and dreadfully inaccurate interpretation of what was in the movie. May I suggest you rewatch several times with a print-out of my posts at hand. I aim to enlighten. I am increasingly being made aware that many opinions on this movie are born out of misunderstanding. The movie shows us things, without subtitles or a little man popping up at the side of the screen with an explanation; it expects us to use our comprehension skills.

Really now? The impression I got was that you were reaching for meaning where there isn't any (for what was clearly a quickie popcorn flick for Brett Ratner). It almost feels like you're making excuses for the crew that worked on the film at this point. "Basic comprehension skills" shows me that the guy with the healing factor survived because he can heal and those without that power didn't because they COULDN'T heal.

 

[November Rain]

Or he could end up dragging GR into space and we get a space battle on our hands. I honestly think if you can bring people back to LIFE then you just shouldn't be messed with. Any joe can kill. Who can really resurrect somebody? I still say one blast from the surfer would take GR out of the battle. At least enough to have him reconstructing himself for an hour or two molecule by molecule.

or one touch of the surfer's board could render it under ghost rider's control, releaving him of any power source altogether.

i'm not sure what type of molecule destruction the surfer showed in the film, when was this?

Bringing back sue was circumstancial, she wasn't an ordinary human and had some cosmis entities within her which silver surfer probably manipulated in order to bring her back. I mean HUMANS have brought back people who have been dead for 15 mins so surfer didn't do anything special in my eyes

 

[Savage]

Well what he did to Doom was certainly on a molecular scale (in fact it looked like exactly the same effects used in X3, the cheap bastards) and he's able to absorb missiles and go through solid objects. He has demonstrated complete control over the molecular structure. I know people want to forget the movie but come on. He showcased that ability more than any other.

Well hey, he repaired organs and brought her back. Let's see Pheonix and Ghost Rider do that.

 

[3dman27]

Gotta wonder why she didn't do that for 3 movies straight.

most likely because the movie storm isn't a killer by nature

 

[November Rain]

so much pointless discussions about characters that don't appeal to the list

strongests overall are mephisto and galactus.

Best portrayal of general power was definitely surfer (including doom on board)

Best portrayal of strength was the thing

Best Super tier implied power was mephisto and galactus

Best invulnerability (at nighttime) was Ghost Rider...

Best invulnerability at day is a surfer

Best offensive arsenal is Ghost Rider's Pennance stare

Fastest with vehicle is surfer

Fastest on land is Hulk

Most lethal display was xavier with cerebro

Most hyped potential was either blackheart or pheonix

Best healing factor was Hulk

Hardest to kill by physical means would be sandman.

In a truelly all out fight with everyone up against everyone else, plenty of characters would be able to pick each other up but it'd be mephisto who came out top. Without him or galactus, Then again it's got to be the rider.

I'd agree with the surfer but he's been seen to be too relied on his board.

The only thing Johnny blaze has against him is sunlight but then to have him transform back (in a similiar way they could transform banner back to the hulk), i don't see that as an actual victory but more of a ring out. The only ones who could do this are the mutants storm and jean but they'd be out of this in a heartbeat due to their mortal bodies being fairly weak.

If transformation ring-outs are allowed, then i give it to the surfer (superglued to his board)., if not, then mephisto and his boy take out the crowd fairly easily.

 

[November Rain]

Another point i'd like to add is that doom in his natural state has been vastly overlooked but he seems to be just as invulnerable as the next dude. Easily could take on the x-men, sandman, hulk, pheonix.

Again a pennace stare would be the only way to truelly take him down. With prep time, doom is in the top three (excluding galactus and mephisto already).

 

[Savage]

most likely because the movie storm isn't a killer by nature

She had no problem frying Toad. Who knows if that guy's still alive. Oh and Calypso as well. Can't forget her.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Cool thread!

Well, seeing as Phoenix's power hadn't been seen at full potential but was described as without limits, the movie version has got some fierce power at her disposal. As Magneto tells her: 'You can do anything, anything you can think of.' She allowed herself to be stabbed to death, but if she didn't allow it, it wouldn't happen. She'd turn Hulk back into Banner with a thought, atomise Ghost Rider's chain and turn him back to normal Blaze.

Against Silver Surfer, I'm not sure. Comicbook Phoenix defeated a Galactus herald (Firelord) and I'm betting that movie Phoenix would give movie Surfer a good run for his money. His power comes from the board and he can be separated by a tachyon field. If she could separate him from the board, he'd be a goner.

I think the only one against whom she could be defeated would be Galactus, and she'd give him a run for his money.

Movie versions of Magneto and Storm are more vulnerable than the comicbook versions with more specific, smaller-scale, non-global powers, so they'd be out of the fight fairly early on. Storm and Magneto would be fairly evenly matched in the movies, though he has the edge (as we saw at Alcatraz when Storm failed to do anything against his burning car attacks).

Gotta agree with Savage on this one, i think she was going all out on Wolverine at the end of X3 until he told her he would die for her. You even see effort and strain in her face when he is climbing towards her.

For me Pheonix cant do anything to hurt Hulk, The Surfer, or Ghost Rider for that matter, permanently anyway.

 

[Savage]

Another point i'd like to add is that doom in his natural state has been vastly overlooked but he seems to be just as invulnerable as the next dude. Easily could take on the x-men, sandman, hulk, pheonix.

Again a pennace stare would be the only way to truelly take him down. With prep time, doom is in the top three (excluding galactus and mephisto already).

Well the Penance stare is one way to take him down but I think two Fantastic Four movies showed that there are other methods as well. Defeat does not always mean kill. Doom is very powerful and CAN take on those people and put on a great show, though. I think that the Silver Surfer, Hulk, and Ghost Rider can take him though. Pheonix I'm not so sure about. That would take forever and both have long range on their side. That one really is tough to call.

 

[X-Maniac]

Sure I can. I didn't need to see the Silver Surfer nuke the earth to know how powerful he was. Just have him calmly pop a hole in it. Tadaaa. Power.

Different circumstances. The FF story required that SS prep the earth for destruction. For Phoenix, we saw the various phenomena we saw - odd forces of nature at the lake, a house lifted and blasted internally, whirling waves of destruction and rising water tendrils at Alcatraz. While storyboards showed the destruction of SF, this was not in the movie shooting script (too expensive, too apocalyptic, whatever?). Phoenix's 'limitless' power potential is what we need to know.

You're actually making sense here. You're right. Pheonix is the one with the power and not Jean. Which is why I don't think Jean fighting the Pheonix had anything to do with Wolverine surviving because clearly she's no match for her and her raw power and emotion. Cyclops is almost understandable when you look at it as a first offense but I think she would have stopped herself at Professor Xavier if there was anybody to stop at. It would have been him that she was begging to kill her.

Xavier ain't the killing kind. Wolverine is.

Yeah, okay, I think you missed something here. Pheonix is as primal as it gets and operates on raw emotion. Wolverine makes Jean hot but she's not in love with the guy. Now a being like Pheonix, instead of having any self control acts on that desire. There is no "bond" in which you speak of. Wolverine may relate to The Pheonix but The Pheonix does not relate to Wolverine and can easily smack him around like anybody else with no remorse whatsoever. The impression that I got was that that little girl we saw in the beginning IS The Pheonix we got. She was locked away and never grew up. If something got in her way she threw a tantrum and destroyed it. That simple. This is why I believe she was going full force at the end of the movie. Pheonix does not hold back. That goes against her nature (according to the rules set in the movie anyway).

I still don't believe she was going full force. She was stood there calmly, almost mockingly, there was no whirling fury of telekinetic destruction. He was walking towards her on upturned vehicles that remained intact. I believe it was a combination of factors - she was holding back and sadistically taunting him with occasional waves of force; his healing factor; and the almost indestructible adamantium protecting his bones and thus protecting some vital organs.

Really now? The impression I got was that you were reaching for meaning where there isn't any (for what was clearly a quickie popcorn flick for Brett Ratner). It almost feels like you're making excuses for the crew that worked on the film at this point. "Basic comprehension skills" shows me that the guy with the healing factor survived because he can heal and those without that power didn't because they COULDN'T heal.

Ratner altered some elements of the script but had eight weeks prep time rather than eight MONTHS. When he came on board, the story was mostly set in place by Penn, Kinberg and also the prior director Matthew Vaughn who decided much of what we saw in X3. Ratner had no time to do very much to a story for which sets were built and story arcs decided.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I still don't believe she was going full force. She was stood there calmly, almost mockingly, there was no whirling fury of telekinetic destruction. He was walking towards her on upturned vehicles that remained intact. I believe it was a combination of factors - she was holding back and sadistically taunting him with occasional waves of force; his healing factor; and the almost indestructible adamantium protecting his bones and thus protecting some vital organs.

To me it definately looked like she was going full-force, the ground almost shakes at one point and a big swirl of dust comes from the ground showing that she is using her powers. Also even as Wolverine is approaching, at one point she even turns her head in disbelief while still keeping her eyes on Wolverine.

 

[SymbioteKal-El]

IMO, The Hulk takes this one, from what we have seen in the movies, nothing either The Silver Surfer or Pheonix can do could hurt Hulk or not be overcome by his healing factor.

Hulk took missile's and tank shells full on in the face and chest, SS chose to dodge them, indicating to me he didnt want to take them on, and Pheonix, if the missile's got through her powers, would be obliterated.

 

[Savage]

Both Surfer and Pheonix can obliterate those missiles actually. That whole demoleculerize thing they have a habit of doing. I just think that the Surfer is even more powerful than Pheonix so he can probably take out Wolverine and Hulk (he did it to Galactus at the end. I'm positive he can take on Hulk and Wolverine with it). Probably Ghost Rider too.

Which reminds me. Can't believe I didn't think of this before. Can't the Surfer pretty much take anybody and put em on a different planet or something? The man has complete molecular control and he's really untouchable when he feels like it. He flies through buildings and absorbs missiles. The more I think about it the more Silver Surfer outclasses absolutely everybody mentioned here short of Mephisto and Galactus.