The Dark Knight My theory about Joker

[Cinemaman]

Ok, guys I have my theory there and I'd like to know what you think.

I think they should show only one scene, which would explain how Joker became Joker, which is known for us.

I guess it should be scene with two Falcone's henchmen taking Joker to chemistry factory.

It would mean that Red hood (pre-Joker) was hurting business of Falcone's family in crime deals. So they decided to finally find and kill him.
So Falcone's henchmen throw Red Hood in sack in waste nuclear liquid.

Then, only in 2nd act we see again Red Hood as Joker this time. He starts war with Falcone's family not just for revenge, but also for power. He wants to became a new prince of Gotham.

But he also realizes that he can't begin this war, because Falcones are too powerful. What he does? Joker starts war between Facones and... arm dealers/other mob bosses and crime families.

So in his strategy, after this war, neaither Facones nor other side will have enough powers to go against a new figure, Joker.

What you think about this?

 

[strider]

Meh sounds to long to put into a movie. Plus to much Falcone will be redundant. I think the Joker will have a small origin nothing over board and I also think that he'll be causing trouble for both Batman/Gordon/Dent & whatever mob boss there is in TDK. (Maroni, Throne, Cobblepot)

 

[Cinemaman]

But there is only one origin scene

 

[Hunter Rider]

The Joker already exists when the movie starts,i see no reason for an origin,keep him mysterious

 

[I Am The Knight]

I think we do need an origin. Him just coming out of nowhere looking all crazy sounds kind of meh to me. I want to see some kind of origin for Joker, you know, just a flashback to show us how he was created. Wether Batman will have anything to do with it, is another thing entirely.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Making him enigmatic would be great IMO,we don't need to feel for him or care about him we need to fear him

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I want little pieces of his life like what they did with Bruce's past.

Show me him as a boy being abused by his drunk dad and living with a crack****e of a mom in a trailer park or rundown apartment.

Show him as a standup comedian doing terribly on stage. Show the audience walking out on him, booing him, and being disruptive. He goes home to his apartment, to his pregnant wife, and finds out he'll be thrown out on his butt soon because he got the last eviction notice and hasn't been paying his rent.

Show him hating his dead-end job at the Wayne Chemical Plant.

Then, he does some jobs for the Falcones or Maronis. Becomes the Red Hood, his wife dies (like in Alan Moore's book), and then he starts to want out of the mob. Falcone or Maroni finds this unacceptable and then pushes him into the chemical vat altering his hair, smile, and skin.

 

[Miranda Fox]

I want little pieces of his life like what they did with Bruce's past.

Show me him as a boy being abused by his drunk dad and living with a crack****e of a mom in a trailer park or rundown apartment.

Show him as a standup comedian doing terribly on stage. Show the audience walking out on him, booing him, and being disruptive. He goes home to his apartment, to his pregnant wife, and finds out he'll be thrown out on his butt soon because he got the last eviction notice and hasn't been paying his rent.

Show him hating his dead-end job at the Wayne Chemical Plant.

Then, he does some jobs for the Falcones or Maronis. Becomes the Red Hood, his wife dies (like in Alan Moore's book), and then he starts to want out of the mob. Falcone or Maroni finds this unacceptable and then pushes him into the chemical vat altering his hair, smile, and skin.

I like that. Making his situation the opposite of Bruce in every way and showing what would happen if Bats hadn't had support after his parents' murder, a stable family before that and general guidance. I could see Nolan going for that.

As for the origin vs no origin - I think there IS need to do one. Having an origin is not the same as explaining everything - there's no need to tell us his name or anything like that. OTOH, villians can work without any explanation ala John Doe in Seven but that's a rare case.

Heath made some reference to there not 'being a lot known about the Joker and it's left that way' - I think he just dropped us a pretty big clue about what direction they would be going in. My interpretation? We'll learn about as much as Gordon and Bats did in TMWL. Which was that he might have been the Red Hood and where he had his accident. It's still an origin, but a vague one.

 

[Two-Face]

I think Nolan mix it with TMWL & TKJ. Those great ideas ^ BTW.

 

[Banshee]

With movies I think the film makers feel like they need to link the villain's origin to the hero to give the villain a motive and keep the movie streamlined. I understand why they do this, to try and keep none-fans interested and not alienate them... but I really hope nolan manages to find a way around this. I don't think the joker needs to be or should be a result of batman's origin and story, just destined enemies. Its like in every spider-man movie, the villains have to be integrated into the hero's life before they become villains, goblin, octopus, now sandman. I hope nolan finds a way to streamline the story without linking joker's origin to batman, but at the same time gives him a decent motive and keeps the relationship between the two interesting.

 

[Banshee]

Also, I really like Terry McGuinnes' assesment of bats and joker's relationship in the reurn of the joker batman beyond movie. When he says something along the lines of "thats why you were always so obsessed with the oldman, because you could never get him to laugh at your pathetic jokes" kind of thing. I would love it if that was incorporated.

 

[Heretic]

I like above idea about Flashbacks since the Joker clearly already exists. I agree that there doesnt have to be any connection to Batman at all. The commercials for Spidey 2 saying that Sandman was Uncle Bens actual killer makes me induce vomiting.

Also, why do we need an origin for Joker? The reason hes crazy is the same reason all the other baddies are crazy...the fear toxin that affected the entire slum area. I dont care if he has an actual clown face...Id be fine with it just being his gimmick with make-up.

 

[The Shredder]

I wouldnt mind The Joker's origin being told via flashbacks, but I also think it would be interesting if instead of giving the audience an airtight backstory that reveals The Joker's past, have it where thru out the film, other scenarios of a possible origin of The Joker come up from time to time to which contradicts with what may have been established before in Joker's TDK origin. Think of the film, "Wonderland" and you get what I mean. Like Alan Moore's The Killing Joke, have it be multiple choice. And let the audience come to their own conclusions as to which version of Joker's origin is the "true" one.

 

[Banshee]

Love that idea. Keep the audience as clueless about his origin as he is. "If I'm going to have a past, I'd like it to be multiple choice"

Then again, you always run that fine line of making the movie more about joker than batman like in 89.

 

[Heretic]

Joker is THE Batman villian. If you have to have Batman share equal time with a villian, hes the one to do it with.

 

[Superman45]

ok heres what I would do if I was writing the story.

Joker at first is a "normal guy" meaning he hasen't been scared yet. He wears a silly V for vendeta like mask, with a clown halloween costume with poka-dots and stuff, really catoony. He goes around committing armed robery, double homicide like what batman hears about at the end of begins. He leaves his calling card thinking hes cute and funny and very amateruish. He is then caught by batman and nearly ****s his pants when batman confronts him. On his way to jail Joker escapes by killing the guards. Joker then goes back to his hide out and twists his mind around to convince himself that batman is the reason why he kills and why he is bad. joker starts laughing and starts to burn himself with his own chemicals turing his skin white and his hair green. His lips start to swell and burst with puss and blood giving him his blood read lips. (Ok, OK I know many people won't like the fact that joker is doing this to himself but it's more of a physical simbolic way of showing just how insane he is.) Ok so now Joker is on his floor laughing uncontrollably with blood poring out of his mouth in a very scary way.

From then on Joker is not intimidated by bats and becomes the real Joker.

 

[Kritish]

Nuclear waste in real life kills people, it doesn't give them powers or alter their appearance.
I doubt Nolan would do otherwise in his "realistic universe".

 

[Cinemaman]

Making him enigmatic would be great IMO,we don't need to feel for him or care about him we need to fear him

But at first we should know something about him to have a fear.

 

[Cinemaman]

I guess nobody had read what I wrote

 

[Mister J]

But at first we should know something about him to have a fear.

Knowing that he's unpredictable and a psychotic murderer is reason enough to fear him. We don't need a definitive origin for that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I guess nobody had read what I wrote

I read it Cine i just don't think The Joker needs to be tied to Batman or The mob bosses,his goal is chaos and destruction,he is flamboyant,theatrical and psychotic,that's all i feel we need to know

 

[Cinemaman]

^^^

Well, at least you read it

 

[Cinemaman]

Knowing that he's unpredictable and a psychotic murderer is reason enough to fear him. We don't need a definitive origin for that.

I think ony one scene of how did he get his look won't hurt the whole movie.

 

[Batman jr.]

Nuclear waste in real life kills people, it doesn't give them powers or alter their appearance.
I doubt Nolan would do otherwise in his "realistic universe".

Indeed.

 

[wikum]

at first, i was all for a small flashback explaining jokers origin....however:

scarecrow: no origin
rhaz: no origin

did it hurt either of the characters? no.

so why does the joker need one? just to explain why he looks how he looks? not really that essential is it. i don't want to feel any remorse or sorrow for this joker and i believe going too much into his backstory will ruin the character.