The Wolverine News & Discussion Thread - Part 1

[chaseter]

The movie does not have to be about this, it can just be a small element or jumping off point. I would rather have a post x-3 wolverine movie than a prequel. The movie can be a very loose sequel/spinoff, it doesnt have to be a continuation of x-3. I have faith in this, Mangold is a very good director.

Nobody and I mean nobody on here or the internet any where:

a) wanted this to be a sequel
b) wanted any part of his motivations to be about Jean's death

I can't believe people are so complacent about this. It's like being told by your dad that you get a BMW for your 16th birthday and when you walk out in the drive way there is a Ford Fiesta. It's like once again Fox has something so simple and amazing in front of their faces and what do they do? The movie could still be good, I can't say it will be crap this early...but dear god how do they so easily set themselves up for epic failures?

 

[Snikt]

True, alot of it is completely up to interpretation. Oh well. I love the idea that The Wolverine is after X3 and the idea of a connected continuity in some form, despite some of my several disagreements with X3.

This works for The Wolverine because, as Mangold said, he's no longer restricted on what he can do with Wolverine. He doesn't have to match ANYTHING up with the previous films. Wolverine left the team again and is on his own again.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Nobody and I mean nobody on here or the internet any where:

a) wanted this to be a sequel
b) wanted any part of his motivations to be about Jean's death

I can't believe people are so complacent about this. It's like being told by your dad that you get a BMW for your 16th birthday and when you walk out in the drive way there is a Ford Fiesta. It's like once again Fox has something so simple and amazing in front of their faces and what do they do? The movie could still be good, I can't say it will be crap this early...but dear god how do they so easily set themselves up for epic failures?

I'm still optimistic.

I'm not getting the masterpiece Aronofsky wrote, but I might still get a great Wolverine film that leads into DOFP.

If they kept The Hand, Ogun & the R-rating, I'll gladly embrace whatever Mangold & Bomback did to Aronofsky's screenplay.

That pic of Jackman in the well looks great.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

2? You and your buddy Marvelrobbins are concentrating on one



really lets compare being that all pervious X-Men films is now officially Cannon..

At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. Mind you, this movie takes place in the 60s. In the movie, The Last Stand, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be 80s.
In the same opening scene in The Last Stand, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways.

In X-Men Origins: Wolverine, we also see Professor X standing at the end of the film.

Back to the Wolverine movie, during the escape of Three Mile Island, we see Emma Frost as a teenager. In First Class (which happens years before), she is an adult. Of course, they never mentioned her name in the movie, but the actress was credited as "Emma Frost."

In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.


First Class establishes that Hank McCoy (Beast) was the one who built Cerebro. In the first movie, Professor X explains that he built it with the help of Magneto.

Because it was stated that Magneto helped Professor X construct Cerebro, Magneto was able to build a helmet that was impervious to telepathy. Well in First Class, Magneto merely takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw.
In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see a young Storm cameo. That would mean Storm in the trilogy should be about 50 years old. I'm sure this was made clearly for fan service, but I'm just sayin'.

In The Last Stand, Mystique becomes cured from her mutation, where we see her revert into a brunette. In First Class, she's a blonde. First Class also establishes that her blue form is her "true" form, which means she was born blue. If being "cured" in The Last Stand means she gains a human appearance, I'm going to assume that she had normal skin before her blueish scales. So which one came first?

Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart.

What say you?

X-Men Origins is not canon.

Moira in X3 can easily be Rose Byrne's daughter & sister to Proteus.

The opening scene with Xavier walking is actually Mystique.

 

[Doc Ock]

This works for The Wolverine because, as Mangold said, he's no longer restricted on what he can do with Wolverine. He doesn't have to match ANYTHING up with the previous films. Wolverine left the team again and is on his own again.

Agreed, freedom! It is very exciting, it would be nice to get Wolverine(and the X-Men as a whole) back up there again in a world seemingly dominated by the Bat and good ol Tony Stark.

 

[Dr Tactics]

X-Men Origins is not canon.

Who confirmed that?

Moira in X3 can easily be Rose Byrne's daughter & sister to Proteus.

You're not serious. That was Miora. The Professor called her by name

The opening scene with Xavier walking is actually Mystique.

That makes no sense..

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Who confirmed that?



You're not serious that was Miora. The Professor called her by name



Thats makes no sense..

Aronofsky confirmed it would ignore Origins when he was still attached.

Yes, her name was Moira, but you could easily say its her daughter (also named Moira) given that X3 takes place 40 years after First Class.

Mystique & Erik learn of Jean Grey & visit her home. Mystique plays the Charles role because a telepath will seem more relatable to Jean than a shapeshifter & a master of magnetism. Mystique whilst playing Charles, can still walk.

That makes perfect sense.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

IIRC "Charles" communicates with Jean telepathically, which shouldn't be possible since Mystique can't copy powers. Plus it gives away to the problem child that she's dealing with an impostor.

 

[psyonic]

They should do a new origins scene for Jean in DoFP, taking place after the Xavier and Erik visit, where her friend Annie dies and Jean's power manifesting on a destructive level, thus leading to the psychic barriers being placed in her mind.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

IIRC "Charles" communicates with Jean telepathically, which shouldn't be possible since Mystique can't copy powers. Plus it gives away to the problem child that she's dealing with an impostor.

Whoops.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Just accept the opening scene of Last stand has been reconned away just as post credit
scene of Thor has been.I would prefer both the Last Stand and origins removed from contunity but I can accept last stand In cannon.

 

[danoyse]

There has been an unacceptable amount of obnoxiousness, and off-topic talk consuming this thread. Those posts have been deleted, but going forward:

Please, keep the Avengers talk to the Avengers forum.

Furthermore, please keep the MCU/Fox chest-thumping about which franchise is better to yourselves..

And as always, quit the name-calling and snide remarks.

This is the only warning. Infractions and probations come next, and I know a few of you don't have to many strikes left here, so tread carefully.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

So I might be alone on this one, but wouldn't it be great if the other mutant in the well is Creed?

Schreiber is the one thing from Origins I wouldn't retcon.

 

[Duran Man]

Mystique was Xavier? Madre Mia! These attempts to fix continuity has gotten out of hand! What Mangold says pretty much confirms that X3 was never tossed out (I still don't know where that idea came from).

 

[craigdbfan]

Spoiler

So I might be alone on this one, but wouldn't it be great if the other mutant in the well is Creed?

Schreiber is the one thing from Origins I wouldn't retcon.

Hugh's arms are vascular as heck.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Why doesn't he have adamantium claws anymore?

 

[Matt Mortem]

Hugh's arms are vascular as heck.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Why doesn't he have adamantium claws anymore?

my guess is that's from a flashback scene. Wasn't it reported there'd be [BLACKOUT]WW2[/BLACKOUT] scenes?

 

[craigdbfan]

my guess is that's from a flashback scene. Wasn't it reported there'd be [BLACKOUT]WW2[/BLACKOUT] scenes?

Oh that's right. Almost completely forgot about that. Well that makes sense then.

Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Mystique was Xavier?

No.

 

[Human Torch]

I prefer to think the walking Charles scenes in X3 and Origins were an astral projection.

Anyway,I'm glad they're actually making this a sequel,since
A.I liked X3 t:
And
B.I want an X4 which is what it sounds like DoFP is shaping up to be.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Oh that's right. Almost completely forgot about that. Well that makes sense then.

Thanks for reminding me.

Yeah, its WWII and there's a mutant in the well with Logan.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Mystique was Xavier? Madre Mia! These attempts to fix continuity has gotten out of hand! What Mangold says pretty much confirms that X3 was never tossed out (I still don't know where that idea came from).

People assumed it because we all thought the new X-films would follow First Class, since First Class blatantly ignored X3 and Origins. In X3 and Origins you have a walking older Charles, and in X3 not only was Charles walking but still friends with Magneto. And as others have pointed out, we even see Charles communicate with Jean via telepathy, so it's pretty hard to ignore that.

Now, if they do what I was discussing before, where it's a loose continuity, and basically only keep the fact that Jean's dead and ignore the other stuff in X3, then I'm fine. I'm all for a DOFP movie, but if we followed X3, then older Charles would have to be played by a different actor then Stewart, which I'm not interested in seeing. I'm hoping they just ignore that stuff.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

People assumed it because we all thought the new X-films would follow First Class, since First Class blatantly ignored X3

How is a five-minute scene & a character with less than a minute of screentime enough for First Class to ignore X3 completely?

FC was very much a prequel to X3. Hank's arc mirrors Kelsey's from start to finish.

Not to mention, that the opening with Xavier can be easily ignored or explained.

 

[The Infernal]

That makes perfect sense.

Sorry, but it doesn't. It's too convoluted.

So I might be alone on this one, but wouldn't it be great if the other mutant in the well is Creed?

Schreiber is the one thing from Origins I wouldn't retcon.

I totally agree about Schreiber (his version clearly tops Tyler's, he and Gambit were the bits I'd like to keep from Origins), but I'm unsure about having him in the film. However, I'm unsure how this part of the film is supposed to play out and I'd rather the main plot wouldn't feature him, but if there was a way to sneak in a flashback (post memory loss) then I could be convinced. An after credit scene would also do the trick for me.

Hugh's arms are vascular as heck.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Why doesn't he have adamantium claws anymore?

I think those are army clothes he has on. So it's likely the WW2 parts of the movie.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Sorry, but it doesn't. It's too convoluted.

Okay, watching X3 on Blu-ray as I write this.

20 YEARS AGO

Xavier's Benz pulls over in front of Jean's house. Xavier & Erik get out of the car.

Erik: "I still don't know why I'm here. Couldn't you just make them say yes?"

Charles: "Yes I could but its not my way. And I would expect you of all people to understand my feelings about the misuse of power."

Erik: "Ah, power corrupts and all that...yes. I know, Charles. When are you gonna stop lecturing me?"

Charles: "When you start listening. You're here because I need you."

Erik: "We're not gonna have to meet every one of them in person, are we?"

Charles: "No. This one's special."

The two are inside the house now sitting with Jean's parents who look at the brochure for Xavier's School for The Gifted.

Mrs. Grey: "What a beautiful campus. John, don't you think?"

John: "Yeah, the brochure is great. But what about Jean? What about her illness?"

Erik: "Illness? You think your daughter is sick, Mr. Grey?"

Charles: "Perhaps it would be best if we were to speak to her alone."

Mrs. Grey: "Of course. Jean, could you come down, dear?"

Jean walks downstairs and sits in front of Charles & Erik.

John: "We'll leave you then."

Jean's parents leave the room.

Charles: "Its very rude, you know? To read my thoughts or Mr. Lensherr's without our permission."

Erik: "Did you think you were the only one of your kind, young lady?"

Charles: "We're mutants, Jean. We are like you."

Jean: "Really? I doubt that."

Jean elevates everything in the neighborhood.

Erik: "Oh, Charles...I like this one."

Charles: "You have more power than you can imagine, Jean. The question is will you control that power or let it control you?"

THE END

Never in the scene does Xavier read Jean's mind. She reads his.

The Mystique angle works.

 

[The Infernal]

Never in the scene does Xavier read Jean's mind. She reads his.

The Mystique angle works.

I'm not saying he does and I'm not arguing about whether she would have known better if it was Mystique (I too watched it to make sure), but that's not why I'm saying it doesn't work. To me it's a bit much considering that Xavier is there to recruit her. If you want to pretend that follows First Class then it would just be nonsense writing to say that Magneto was tricking her to go to Xavier's school or that he was trying to recruit her into the Brotherhood and it backfires. Those rectons and any other ideas call for another story entirely which consequences would have to played out. Even then it would still be, in my eyes, a convoluted mess.

In short, it's not the scene itself but what is implied. I'd rather it just be simply ignored rather than tackled because as bad as X3 was it just makes for worse storytelling to insert retcons like that.