Apocalypse Nightcrawler in the Apocalypse Movie

[craigaat]

As long as he's better than Cumming's version I won't mind.

 

[Super Jim]

I am afraid it would just come out of nowhere....we should have at least seen Mystique pregnant or with someone in the previous film. andI dont think theres room for it in this film.

Sure you'll hate this, but I have a big feeling that at some point they'll show a flashback of Raven abandoning baby Kurt with Margali.

My guess is it'll go like this...

Professor X and the team will go to Europe and visit the circus, where Nightcrawler is the main attraction.

While the X-kiddos are watching the show, Professor X will be talking with Margali. This will lead to a flashback (hopefully it'll not come off cheesy) where we see Raven, leaving baby Kurt on Margali's trailer step (or something like that).

This will serve multiple purposes...

One, we'll see that it's Mystique who is Kurt's mom and maybe her reasoning for abandoning him.

And two, give Kurt's origin, kind of. It'll explain how and why he grew up in the circus.

Later in the movie, likely when Mystique is resolving things with Eric, or Charles, or Kurt (but likely Eric); we'll get to see a little bit more, including how (hopefully) it's Azazel who was the father...

I know, you'll hate this, but it makes so much sense going this way...

 

[psylockolussus]

I feel like its just too many things going on, so much backstories and I think its for the best that they leave this mother/son relationsip out of the film.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Totally agree. Just say NO to those skin markings and the whole religious thing.

Fun, mischievious, swashbuckling, flirtatious (with Storm) and self assured. That's what Kurt should be!

 

[CaptainWagner]

“I think I’m really going to make it my own because it is kind of going back and its seeing the younger character,” Smit-McPhee said. “I realize the Nightcrawler that is portrayed in X2 is one that has been through quite a bit more and has really embraced the superhero part of him—a kind of violent part. Whereas I think what they’re trying to show here is the more vulnerable Nightcrawler and the one we all kind of related to in the comics. It’s really the fun, happy, swashbuckling Nightcrawler that we all love, so I really can’t wait to portray that. He’s just very vulnerable and truthful, and grounded in his faith. I think it’s something new though that we’ll see. But as I said, all of the traditional things that we want in it—it’s still there. Hint, hint.”

So, effectively everything I've wanted for this character seems to be happening!!!!!

Yay!!!!

Just loving that he even used the identical wording that I used at the start of this thread:

"fun, happy, swashbuckling!"

Did I mention... Yay!!!!!!

This makes me extremely happy. t:

 

[BeholdMe]

I am afraid it would just come out of nowhere....we should have at least seen Mystique pregnant or with someone in the previous film. andI dont think theres room for it in this film.

They could easily explain that though and with her being one of the focuses anyway to close the chapter for the 3 the movie started with its not extreme for them to say Mystique is his mother or hint at it which can be explained in another movie down the line. It doesn't have to come out immediately but it needs to be told as well as Azazel being is father.

 

[Super Jim]

Here's a point...

First, think about the way Singer and Kinberg write their stories, before you become closed to this concern...

We know that a major piece of this story is going to be the resolution of Chuck's, Eric's and Raven's collective relationship arcs. It's quite possible that some of these A-Listers (hopefully not all) will never be in an X-Men movie again... Just saying...

Now one thing that I've noticed is a desire to have some sort of "theme" behind the story. As much as many of us would hope that the "theme" for this movie would be developing the characters of young Scott, Jean and Storm (and Kurt), we've all got to know that that is more wishful thinking than anything else.

So, if you're looking to resolve, and possibly "conclude" the stories of these main characters, what could you use as the "theme".

Well, family is a main one and one that we know pertains to some (and possibly all) of these main three. Just to recap, though I know you guys know, we have:

- Magneto and his son Quicksilver and daughter(s) Scarlet Witch and/or Polaris.

- Mystique and Nightcrawler, per comic-book canon. Since we know that Kurt will be in this movie it seems like a very good possibility that his parentage, as it does apply to his origin, will be, at least somewhat, featured.

- And then Chuck. Chuck doesn't have any family, right? I mean, his students are his family, right? Well, as most of you know, in the comics Charles did indeed have a kid, and depending what the source material you want to use, his child could be one of two different options. Now at this point it's very hard for me to believe that Charles' son would be featured in this movie, especially since there has been no casting that could apply, but, we still have that whole theme thing...

Guess what I'm saying is that I am worried that they will put too much focus on something like this familial theme, which would greatly reduce character development time for those we want to see developed.

It is possible that some, or all of the big three's kids will be Horsemen (along with Archangel), but I'm hoping that is not the case. I really hope that Proteus or Legion are not featured in this at all, but ever since hearing that Moira is coming back I can't help but shake the feeling that it's for the main purpose of focusing/giving a relationship to Charles, just like the relationships that Mystique and Eric could have. Yes, maybe it won't be the kiddo thing for Charles, but a relationship theme does seem to be right up Singer's and Kinberg's wheelhouse.

 

[psylockolussus]

They could easily explain that though and with her being one of the focuses anyway to close the chapter for the 3 the movie started with its not extreme for them to say Mystique is his mother or hint at it which can be explained in another movie down the line. It doesn't have to come out immediately but it needs to be told as well as Azazel being is father.

And I doubt the casual viewers would care about Azazel being the father and I don't know what good it would do the film other than staying true to the comics. And aside from this, people also want to see the Quicksilver/Magneto/Scarlet Witch relationship and Cyclops/Havok relationship.

 

[Malik]

Well cyclops, havoc, quicksilver, and magneto are in. Sw is the only one missing.

 

[Super Jim]

And I doubt the casual viewers would care about Azazel being the father and I don't know what good it would do the film other than staying true to the comics. And aside from this, people also want to see the Quicksilver/Magneto/Scarlet Witch relationship and Cyclops/Havok relationship.

Actually, having Azazel as the father cn most definitely play into the story that revolves around the resolution between Eric and Raven

Think about what we know...

- There was some level of mutual attraction between Raven and Eric. This was shown in numerous scenes in First Class.

- This level of attraction was toeing the line of being sexual. That whole scene with Raven in Eric's bed definitely implied that they were together, right?

- At the end of the movie Raven makes the choice to leave with Eric. Effectively, she has chosen Eric's side, which includes his belief (and possibly his bed), over the diametrically opposed views of Charles.

- Now in DoFP we find out that she was "on her own". It can be cocluded that she has been "on her own" for a while.

- We later find out that Eric went off to try to save Kennedy and ended up being captured. Why he didn't take Raven with him was never answered (I believe), but it did seem like he did this by himself, meaning no other Brotherhood members went with him (especially since most were dead).

- We also know that Azazel and others were killed during Project Wideawake in July of 1963.

- Since the Cuban Missile Crisis happened in October of 1962 and Azazel was killed in July of 1963, it is likely that if Azazel and Raven were together (as most hope/assume) that it happened during this time.

- Kennedy was killed in November of 1963. It makes sense that Eric's mission was an ongoing one, meaning he must have left months earlier. The fact that he knew Kennedy indicates a familiarity that he would not have had in November of 1962.

- We know that Kurt will be somewhere around the age of 18 or 19 in Apocalypse, based on the ages of other characters and the actor. Yes, this isn't definitive, but it would coincide with other evidence that we have.

So, here's a very logical scenerio...

Eric and his Brotherhood leave together in October of 1962. They likely set up a headquarters, free Emma, help other mutants, etc.

At some point during the winter of 1962/1963 or spring of 1963 Eric becomes knowledgeable of the fact that Kennedy is a mutant. Maybe Kennedy (or his people) contacted him, or he found out through other means. It's very likely that Eric starts to take an active role in trying to help/protect Kennedy during this time, and is leaving the Brotherhood team for periods during this time. Quite possibly Kennedy wanted as few as possible to know that he was a mutant, which means Eric wouldn't be able to tell others that he was helping.

I have to assume that Project Wideawake happened when Eric wasn't there. Azazel and Tempest were killed. Possibly Angel Salvadore (the dragonfly looking chick) as well. Obviosuly Raven either escaped or wasn't there.

It's very likely that Eric left the team in the spring of 1963. Raven would feel abandoned in many ways.

It would be during this time, say between May to July of 1963 that she and Azazel were together.

Now, there's many different possibilities for why this would/could happen.

- Maybe Eric started spending time with Emma, making Raven jealous. Would she try to make him jealous back by showing affection to another?

- Maybe she and Eric were truly in love. The limited conversation in DoFP might imply that. But he left her and in her distraught state maybe a dashing guy like Azazel consoled her.

- Maybe Azazel used a little known power that he has of being able to change his appearance to trick Raven into believing that he was Eric.

- Maybe Azazel forced himself on her. Many might assume that she would be able to fight him off, but who knows.

The point is that there are many scenerios that one could come up with that would have Raven and Azazel together, and almost all of them could be considered (from Raven's point of view) caused by Eric leaving her alone.

I would imagine that Raven would have certain emotions due to this. Actually, when you watch that scene where Raven is reading the Project Wideawke file in DoFP it does seem like she is truly upset. You know, the whole tears and stuff. Maybe that was just general emotion, but it quite possibly could have been focused on her seeing the picture of Azazel. meaning, maybe she had true emotions for him.

Now imagine this...

Raven finds herself, in July of 1963, pregnant and alone. She has just found out that Azazel was killed by the government. Eric has left her alone as well. She would be very upset at the situation. And then, a few months later, she sees that Eric tried to kill the President and he was captured.

She gives birth to Kurt in March of 1964 and knows that she must give up her baby to someone else to raise since she feels she must go and try to save Eric. She leaves baby Kurt at the circus with Margali and goes off.

Since we will have Kurt in this movie, it's very likely we'll get some origin story for him (a quick one) that will include how he was left at the circus.

We know there will also be some resolution between Raven and Eric, and the events of what happened to her between when Eric left her and her leaving Kurt at the circus would most definitely apply. Again, flashback use is likely and if it is Azazel, it may or may not be shown. If he forced himself on her, or more likely tricked her, I could see it being shown, but if she was actually in love with Azazel (or at least had feelings for him) then Azazel may not be shown, just discussion between Eric and Raven, along with the prior flashback stuff of baby Kurt being left.

It's quite possible that we won't get into the nitty gritty and quite possible that the movie will be left with Kurt not even knowing that Mystique is his mother (since they don't have a relationship to resolve), but you have to expect that these other elements will be told.

Now, my biggest concern in regard to this is that they (Kinberg and Singer) will greatly diverge from cacnon and not have Azazel as the father. My biggest worry is that if it's not Azazel then who would it be, and I could see them going with Eric, which would be beyond stupid and upset me beyond words!

 

[Sullstar]

Also, Raven starts crying when she is going through them photos in DOFP. While this is because of all the mutants that were killed and/or experimented that she couldn't save, it could also be a response to seeing Azazel, the father of her child.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Yep she wanted revenge on trask for their deaths, she was brought to tears seeing angel and azazel in the pictures and didn't mind knocking out magneto to kill trask herself for revenge so I don't believe that whole they were so in love and the evil azazel took advantage

She didn't bust magneto out of prison even though she certainly could have and him going to jail would likely have been all over the news

And magneto trying to kill her to save mutant kind pretty much says he didn't love her

I don't think you really need excuses for her getting with azazel

 

[Super Jim]

^ Some things to consider:

Her knocking out Magneto was post him trying to kill her. Pretty much any feelings she may have had for Eric ten years prior would have gone by the wayside after he betrayed her in this way (from her point of view). The fact that she went out of her way to get to him (in that subway scene), and that she didn't just kill him (she could have - multiple times - including with the glass gun right before knocking him out and taking his helmet off), shows that (for reasons not explained) she wanted to understand his motivation for trying to kill her and likely had other reasoning.

The honest truth is that we don't know whether she ever tried to free Eric back in the 60's. As we discussed, she was likely a little busy (being pregnant) between when he was captured (in October of 63) and when she would have given birth to Kurt (in March of 64). It's quite possible that she didn't know exactly where Eric was being held (though it would be fair to question how Charles would know) or she knew that the security was too tight for her to free him. Yes, Quicksilver was able to do it with Beast's help, along with Wolverine (Charles was effectively useless at this point), but maybe Mystique would not have been able to. I know she's a very accomplished mutant, but without Quicksilver, who is beyind OP, the breakout would not have been successful.

As far as your third point, I can't agree. See, to me, Magneto's number one priority, over everything else in his life (with perhaps his self-preseration being the only issue of higher importance), is winning this war against the homosapians.

If he believed (as we were shown he did) that killing Mystique was the best way to save the mutants, then that is what he would do.

But, I do agree, the emotions she showed during that scene in Task's office definitely makes me lean towards her having had a relationship and feelings for Azazel, which again, based on what we saw in First Class, was likely the result of Eric not being there for her in the spring and/or summer of 63!

 

[GuestStar2004]

Seeing how she is with Hank in FC and wolverine in X2 I don't believe there needs to be an excuse at all as to why mystique would show interest in another guy

As for the 1963 thing well to be fair it's the bent bullet website that said he was killed in 1963 but we don't know if Kinberg and singer will stick to that or if they even had a part in that explanation

Obviously that would confuse as to how magneto knew they were dead but they may ignore that

 

[Super Jim]

Well, it is feasible to come up with a story that has Magneto with his Brotherhood until the fall of 1963, meaning that he would be there to experience the loss of Riptide and Azazel (and Angel).

The issue would still be how there seemed to be feelings (or something) between Erik and Raven back in First Class, but this is months later, so numerous things could have happened, meaning there could be a reasonable explaination for why she would be with Azazel instead of with Erik.

It would be kinda cool (story wise) for part of the resolution between Erik and Raven to be a reveal about Kurt.

Imagine that the two of them are together and going through their resolution storyline. Obviously part of that discussion would be regarding the events that transpired between her leaving Charles and Erik leaving to save Kennedy. So what if he left in say September or what have you, and he wasn't aware that she was pregnant. This could end up being part of the discussion.

Guess what I'm saying is that the things that happened between when Raven left and when Kurt was born matter as far as Raven's character, and apply to Nightrawler's origin (we assume and hope). I have to believe that, at least somewhat, this will be part of the story.

Again, maybe Raven and Kurt will not have any discussion regarding this, but I have to believe it will be ingrained, at least a little, in the story...

Actually, for the general audience, I could see them making it seem that the person who left Kurt with Margali was just some unknown person, but then later it is revealed that it was Raven. yes, to us, this would not be a mystery in the slightest, but for the GA, maybe it would be...

 

[Mars123]

Of course if he joins the xmen he might never have gone to the circus. Possibilities opens up a lot with the new timeline

 

[JP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3m6T_ml8J4

 

[BeholdMe]

And I doubt the casual viewers would care about Azazel being the father and I don't know what good it would do the film other than staying true to the comics. And aside from this, people also want to see the Quicksilver/Magneto/Scarlet Witch relationship and Cyclops/Havok relationship.

I never said the casual viewer would care but since that is his father whom he looks more so like he just has Mystiques blue skin, I just think it would a good thing to include and it won't take up much time since it does still involve Mystique in which this is closing out her trilogy in the movie. My point is that they should touch on it. Also isn't Azazel a demon from the underworld so him dying in the movie can easily be explained away since he is somewhat immortal and that can lead to more stories and introduce other characters like Magik

 

[Iceman]

As long as he's better than Cumming's version I won't mind.

I hope he is, but I thought Cumming's version was great.

 

[BMM]

Cumming's Nightcrawler was great--a highlight of the franchise. That said, I think Smit-McPhee will be great, too. Really looking forward to seeing Nightcrawler in action and what they do with the character now.

 

[Iceman]

No excuse for not getting the effects and look right given how good they were in 2003.

 

[Malik]

What do you mean effects? He had his bamf thing going on. It didn't glow purple if that's what you mean? His powers were well realized.

 

[BMM]

What do you mean effects? He had his bamf thing going on. It didn't glow purple if that's what you mean? His powers were well realized.

That's why Iceman said his effects were good, and that's why he's saying there's no excuse that they shouldn't be just as good in Apocalypse. And I agree. I hope the makeup and effects are just as good, if not better.

 

[Iceman]

That's why Iceman said his effects were good, and that's why he's saying there's no excuse that they shouldn't be just as good in Apocalypse. And I agree. I hope the makeup and effects are just as good, if not better.

Yep, thanks

 

[JP]

@BryanSinger: First day on set! Here is @kodismitmcpheee as #Nightcrawler. Catch him before he’s gone.… https://t.co/f8ppx6MCBn