The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!!

[Alex Logan]

Thanks!

 

[Mindreaper21]

This was just pathetic. You don't want Robin or Dick? Well, you've got 4 movies thus far where he's not present (the Burton and Nolan films). Not to mention Dick/Robin's introduction has nothign whatsoever to do with the Riddler's appearance (seriously, you're graqsping here).

Not to mention TDK had an ensemble cast and it worked very well, so it can most certainly be done (and it doesn't have to be by Nolan either).

Seriously, others have outlined their opposition to Robin's inclusion far more articulately and intelligently than you have. All you've shown is that you're a close-minded fool. This thread demonstrates that others are far less dismissive when it comes to Robin.

And I think that, even if he is never included, the latter is a far better place to be, than everyone being the former (like you).

Did you actually try and attack me with this? Do not try and insult my intelligence when you clearly have not done your research. I have given a resonable opinion on this topic as to why I believe there is no room for Robin nor Dick in the next film long before I made this statement. As far as myself being a closed-minded fool (which you clearly spelled incorrectly), you are completely mistaken because I'm always open to everyones opinion so do not display your disrespect to me. Your rant is childish and irrelevant which there is no room for on these boards. So here is a little advise for you, the next time you choose to insult someone because of their opinion, try viewing their earlier posts so that you do not make the mistake of embarrasing yourself like you have just done.

 

[nightwing666]

I dont think many crazed fanboy's understand TDK. There is no room for a colourful character like Robin to enter Nolan's vision of Batman. One point of this Batman is he doesnt want to put anybody else in danger but himself so why would he put a young teenage boy dressed in green/yellow and red.Plus it would take many years to fully train Robin to be even close to Batman's level. Batman even makes mistakes. Imagine if young Robin went up against Heath's Joker. He would get his ass thrashed. It would be very easy to figure out Batman's identity with young Robin's crappy mask.

 

[Alex Logan]

I dont think many crazed fanboy's understand TDK. There is no room for a colourful character like Robin to enter Nolan's vision of Batman. One point of this Batman is he doesnt want to put anybody else in danger but himself so why would he put a young teenage boy dressed in green/yellow and red.Plus it would take many years to fully train Robin to be even close to Batman's level. Batman even makes mistakes. Imagine if young Robin went up against Heath's Joker. He would get his ass thrashed. It would be very easy to figure out Batman's identity with young Robin's crappy mask.

You many assume too much, most of us understand TDK better then you think.

 

[wellsy]

Did you actually try and attack me with this? Do not try and insult my intelligence when you clearly have not done your research. I have given a resonable opinion on this topic as to why I believe there is no room for Robin nor Dick in the next film long before I made this statement. As far as myself being a closed-minded fool (which you clearly spelled incorrectly), you are completely mistaken because I'm always open to everyones opinion so do not display your disrespect to me. Your rant is childish and irrelevant which there is no room for on these boards. So here is a little advice for you, the next time you choose to insult someone because of their opinion, try viewing their earlier posts so that you do not make the mistake of embarrasing yourself like you have just done.

This is rich. But I've no desire to get into a flame war.

I was composing a much longer post, but I think I'll be short and sweet.

Reread the post I answered. For your convenience, here it is:

I can't believe this is still going on.
This thread should have burned in hell the moment it was opened. No more Robin nor Dick, he'll just complicate things. There will be too many stories going on at once and it will just make the movie soppy and all over the place. For once I wan't to see something where that pipsqueek doesn't make an appearance everytime The Riddler comes along. Bruce is a playboy with issues that need to be resolved, he's not about to baybysit some kid...someone please put this thread out of it's misery

Now, having reread that, explain to me how this is not dismissive of the contrary argument (that is, close-minded), and how my answer to it is childish and irrelevant.

To even level such a charge is mind-boggling. How can I be irrelevant when I'm on topic in the thread I'm posting in? Childish? Perhaps - I do admit, I come across quite harshly. But I feel such harshness justified, and stand by my comments.

When I post a reply to someone's post, I don't care what they've said pages and pages ago. I focus on what they said in the post I quoted. Again, reread your post. Tell me how I couldn't get the impression that you are close-minded and dismissive.

And let me provide you with some more useful, practical advice: when countering a charge of close-mindedness and dismissiveness, you don't attempt to go after the person who made the post. You knock their arguments out from underneath them. In fact, it's so simple, a child can do it. What you say is this...

Close-minded? Dismissive? Balderdash!

[Insert previous, more articulate, less dismissive, more open-minded post here]

It's not hard to copy-paste something, and if you'd done that, I probably would have accepted that (unless said post is still as dismissive and close-minded as the post I answered).

So there, a bit longer, but hey, not too bad.

Oh, and as for the close-minded/closed-minded part - well, according to my spell checker, both are right. Ho hum .

 

[Chuck_the_bear]

No one likes Robin not even dc
remember Jason tod lol

 

[Gianakin_]

One could argue that the fans killed Todd, not DC. And if what you say is true, how come we've had 3-4 Robins so far in the Batman mythos?

 

[Majik1387]

I liked Jason Todd.

 

[CaptainClown]

I hate robin take him out. Jason Todd was the best simply because he DIED

 

[El Payaso]

One could argue that the fans killed Todd, not DC. And if what you say is true, how come we've had 3-4 Robins so far in the Batman mythos?

I'd say because it works in comic books to some extemnt, which makes me wonder, how come we've had most bat-movies and the best ones without Robin?

 

[Gianakin_]

I'd say because it works in comic books to some extemnt, which makes me wonder, how come we've had most bat-movies and the best ones without Robin?

A matter of writing perhaps. I can't be certain enough to blame the concept of the character for his cinematic failures.

I mean in BF the character wasn't done amazingly or something but Grayson/Robin was certainly not the worst part of the movie for me. He was pretty bad in B&R but almost everything was bad in that movie, so...

Sam Hamm's Batman Returns script also had a pretty sucky Robin with a bad origin, so what can I tell you? I still believe that someone will do him justice, but it's difficult for me to accept that to make a cinematic Robin work, you have to be faithful to the comics.

 

[SuperKoala]

I wouldnt mind an aquaman cameo to help set up the justice league movie

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

Just because you personally don't like the character of Robin doesn't mean you can tell other people he doesn't belong in Batman's world. Tell it like it is. You don't like him. That's fair.

Robin is a part of Batman's history. And as such, should be honoured. This legacy came before Nolan even knew more than "Batman wears a costume, and fights crime!"... and deserves more respect than it's given. I personally like Batman better ALONE (both in comics and the movies), and yet I know, and accept that Robin is essential to some part of Batman.

It's time for people to start remembering where these characters come from. And it's ISN'T Christopher Nolan.


~HoH~

 

[Alex Logan]

Just because you personally don't like the character of Robin doesn't mean you can tell other people he doesn't belong in Batman's world. Tell it like it is. You don't like him. That's fair.

Robin is a part of Batman's history. And as such, should be honoured. This legacy came before Nolan even knew more than "Batman wears a costume, and fights crime!"... and deserves more respect than it's given. I personally like Batman better ALONE (both in comics and the movies), and yet I know, and accept that Robin is essential to some part of Batman.

It's time for people to start remembering where these characters come from. And it's ISN'T Christopher Nolan.


~HoH~

That's kinda the problem we do remember where Robin came from and the stories writen about him back then were cheesy. That kind of stuff doesn't belong in these new films and in my own opinion it doesn't belong in any Batman film.

As I said before, make a Teen Titans film and give Robin the lead.

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

I'm curious as to why people only seem to remember the fifties and sixties in the comics. As if all the other serious storylines never existed. They've done things far darker in the comics than Nolan has ever considered doing in his films.


~HoH~

 

[I Am The Knight]

I wouldnt mind an aquaman cameo to help set up the justice league movie

Batman finds him in Gotham's sewers while chasing Killer Croc. Arthur is trying to "Jump the Croc" and surprise Batman with an alligator type present for the Holidays, but Batman's having none of it. Comedy ensues.

 

[SuperKoala]

exactly

 

[SPider-T0rch]

Just because you personally don't like the character of Robin doesn't mean you can tell other people he doesn't belong in Batman's world. Tell it like it is. You don't like him. That's fair.

Robin is a part of Batman's history. And as such, should be honoured. This legacy came before Nolan even knew more than "Batman wears a costume, and fights crime!"... and deserves more respect than it's given. I personally like Batman better ALONE (both in comics and the movies), and yet I know, and accept that Robin is essential to some part of Batman.

It's time for people to start remembering where these characters come from. And it's ISN'T Christopher Nolan.


~HoH~

Exactly. Nolan hasn't really "created" anything but instead has found ways to evolve these characters, who once had reputations for being overly campy, into three-dimensional people we could easily find believable in our world. If the Joker could be stripped of his silly clown persona and become recreated into a homicidal psychopath in TDK, I personally believe Robin can be given the same treatment. Of course, there would have to be a logical reason to fit him in but it doesn't mean that it's impossible TO fit him in.

I'm not expecting Robin in the third film because it just doesn't feel like a good logical step after TDK. However, i hope to see Robin appear in later movies in some shape or form, if done correctly of course

 

[Alex Logan]

I'm curious as to why people only seem to remember the fifties and sixties in the comics. As if all the other serious storylines never existed. They've done things far darker in the comics than Nolan has ever considered doing in his films.

~HoH~

To be fair you said that people need to remember WHERE the characters came from, you set yourself up for that one.

The simple fact is this: After the story in TDK, Robin is not the next logical step .

 

[the_joker]

If done right Robin could work. I think it's unlikely that Nolan would ever add Robin, but if the rumours that a third and final Batman film will be set sometime in the future with an older Bruce/Batman (a rumour I happen to quite like the sound of btw). Then there could be room for a successor to Batman waiting in the wings. I don't know, I am going to stay neutral on the Robin addition for now.

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

To be fair you said that people need to remember WHERE the characters came from, you set yourself up for that one.

The simple fact is this: After the story in TDK, Robin is not the next logical step .

I most certainly set myself up for nothing of the sort. How is pointing out that the COMICS were where these characters came from even remotely suggesting that I'm talking about the campy versions of the characters from the fifties and sixties? Like there hasn't been decades of different material before and after said time frame...

The WHERE part of what I said was simply me saying that the comics deserve respect, as that's where ALL of these characters COME FROM. And honestly, it's where these characters will be kept alive long after everyone else decides Batman isn't cool enough to be all super into anymore.

I made no mention of what comic era I was referencing, so to assume I'm talking about the silly versions of Batman and Robin really just proves what I've been saying. Clearly some of you do NOT know who Robin/Dick Grayson actually is, and how he should be portrayed.

Batman has been Adam West in the live action version of Batman, yet no one holds the movie versions to THAT. Perhaps I should start assuming you're all talking about Adam West when you're talking about a live action Batman movie. Honestly, it would make about as much sense as referencing the early comic code days (The 50's and 60's), when I say Nolan should remember the books.

As for this not being the proper time for this character now that TDK is over? I totally disagree. Batman needs allies now more than ever. Especially one that can personally help him overcome the obstacles now in his way. Being an outcast, and being alone, this next movie will be the PERFECT opportunity for Bruce to delve deeper into his own psyche, and introducing a character that is a mirror image of his own pain and suffering as a child is an ideal way to do so.

Essentially, none of this matters, because WB will most likely force Robin onto the franchise eventually anyway. Whether Nolan likes it or not.
And when that time comes... he can USE the great character developing potential he will get by adding Bruce's adopted SON to his stories, or waste it... like I'm sure he would... and successfully make a mockery of one of the most classic crime fighting teams that has ever existed.


~HoH~

 

[Alex Logan]

I most certainly set myself up for nothing of the sort. How is pointing out that the COMICS were where these characters came from even remotely suggesting that I'm talking about the campy versions of the characters from the fifties and sixties? Like there hasn't been decades of different material before and after said time frame...

The WHERE part of what I said was simply me saying that the comics deserve respect, as that's where ALL of these characters COME FROM. And honestly, it's where these characters will be kept alive long after everyone else decides Batman isn't cool enough to be all super into anymore.

I made no mention of what comic era I was referencing, so to assume I'm talking about the silly versions of Batman and Robin really just proves what I've been saying. Clearly some of you do NOT know who Robin/Dick Grayson actually is, and how he should be portrayed.

Batman has been Adam West in the live action version of Batman, yet no one holds the movie versions to THAT. Perhaps I should start assuming you're all talking about Adam West when you're talking about a live action Batman movie. Honestly, it would make about as much sense as referencing the early comic code days (The 50's and 60's), when I say Nolan should remember the books.

As for this not being the proper time for this character now that TDK is over? I totally disagree. Batman needs allies now more than ever. Especially one that can personally help him overcome the obstacles now in his way. Being an outcast, and being alone, this next movie will be the PERFECT opportunity for Bruce to delve deeper into his own psyche, and introducing a character that is a mirror image of his own pain and suffering as a child is an ideal way to do so.

Essentially, none of this matters, because WB will most likely force Robin onto the franchise eventually anyway. Whether Nolan likes it or not. And when that time comes... he can USE the great character developing potential he will get by adding Bruce's adopted SON to his stories, or waste it... like I'm sure he would... and successfully make a mockery of one of the most classic crime fighting teams that has ever existed.

~HoH~

On the contrary, you did in fact set yourself up for such a joke just by the way you worded your sentence. Yes, that's right I was fooling with you.

Why so serious? Loosen up a little.

You're right the comics do deserve respect, but the way you're going about it they won't get any. And trust me I for one know who Dick Grayson is, chances are I've been reading comics longer than you have.

That's where you're wrong. What's been achieved with TDK will last for a very long time. That film has changed the majority of the public's opinion about comic book movies. There has never been anything quite like it and chances are there won't be for a while.

If you truly understood Batman's motivation in TDK then you whould know that it's not the RIGHT time for Robin. Bruce doesn't want to endanger anyone else, only he can be the outcast at this point.

When it comes to the story the WB will not force Chris Nolan to do anything. You don't tell a director who made your company a boat load of money where to take the story. And besides this is the NEW DC not the OLD Mavel.

It seems to me that you have a deep hatred for Chris Nolan. In almost every post it you've tried to trash him. What did he do that made you dislike him so much?

Chirs Nolan doesn't need to make a mockery of one of the most classic crime fighting teams that has ever existed, Joel Schumacher already accomplished that task.

And just for the record I like Robin.

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

Yes, you're right. I see how speaking clearly, and intellectually about personally being offended at how insulting people are being towards the comics would get me, and what I'm talking about very little respect around these parts. Let's ignore all the other posters that are blatantly insulting each other over their opinions, name calling, and hating on Robin for no other reason other than "he's lame!". (Which is who I was originally talking to. Not you)
If you really liked Robin... you would think you wouldn't be okay with posts like that. And if you're just ignoring them because it's pointless to get into it with them, and not worth your time...? Then why ride me?

This would honestly be why my post count is so low... most of the time it's useless to bother saying anything here, as it doesn't seem matter how nicely, diplomatically, or sugar coated I try and explain the way I feel about things. I could be rolling over and pretending I thought Nolan was fabulous, and somehow I'd still come under fire for SOMETHING. It's astounding how many of the original posters aren't here anymore...and this is why.

If you indeed know so much about the comics, Alex Logan, as you claim you do, current and old... then you may have picked up on the fact that I prefer comic book films to be more traditional than Nolan has made his "version". So you wouldn't, and shouldn't have to ask me why he offends me, and why I don't like him.

TDK didn't change many (if any) opinions on comic movies that Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, or the first Spider-Man wouldn't or hadn't already. None of the people I've spoken to see comic book movies in a different light now that they've seen TDK. Do they love it? Yes. Do they think it's one of the best, if not the best of the year? Yes. But it's didn't change the face of the earth, nor did it change movie making FOREVER.

Sad fact of the matter is that a lot of people saw this movie because of Heath Ledger. Argue all you want, but fact is fact. Did he do a great job? Yes. But that doesn't change the large numbers of people that saw this movie that didn't even SEE Batman Begins. They wanted to see Ledger's final performance. And as beautiful as it was, it changed NOTHING for the comic movies of the future. Don't believe me? Ask around. Look it up. Ledger was the obvious draw for this film.

Anyone that claims that TDK made all of it's money strictly on how "ground breaking" of a comic film it was? Is much more of a fanboy than I... but of a different sense. A Nolanite to the core.
Everything that was good about that movie was the work of the actors. Not the director, who failed even Bale by allowing him to deliver one of the weakest performances of his career.

As for Batman and Robin, throwing Schumacher into the discussion won't change Nolan's failure to respect the comic fans, nor would it change his inability to handle the duo correctly WHEN it will need to be. You referencing this makes no sense to me...

Just as claiming that what I'd said before sets me up for a joke at my expense regarding Batman in the fifties and sixties...
Even IF I were talking about Batman's debut (the first place Batman comes from)...Batman's first issue (which was in the late 30's, not 50's and 60's) had death, destruction, and a more serious Joker than even Ledger himself delivered. Just because the dialogue is poorly written doesn't change the serious tone of the story. So I fail to see your ability to connect the ridiculous era of comics to what I said, no matter how I worded my sentence. But hey, maybe you're right! Maybe Joker murdering people because he has nothing better to do IS campy, and fun! A real PBS quality of a story. Or we can talk about Robin's first appearance, which has him getting people killed...on purpose...also really child friendly! But since I was talking about current continuity when I said that, as I tried to explain before... let's just move on.

As for not forcing something on a director that just made the studio millions of dollars... Venom comes to mind. But I'm sure that's different for some interesting reason. Even though WB is more notorious for forcing things on their films than any other studio out there...

Overall? I'm done talking about this on the boards. If you want to continue this conversation, then PM me. This topic has already gone enough off course.

On Topic: If Nolan was as creative of a genius as people claim he is, he would find a way to make Robin fit into his universe. Dick Grayson is a rich character that would make even dull moments in the cave worth watching.


~HoH~

 

[Crook]

On Topic: If Nolan was as creative of a genius as people claim he is, he would find a way to make Robin fit into his universe. Dick Grayson is a rich character that would make even dull moments in the cave worth watching.

He may very well could. But should he? Not when his heart isn't behind it. Talent can only go so far if interest isn't there for support.

 

[HarlequinOfHate]

Now THAT is a valid point. I suppose I can only hope that either he's shown how great of a character Dick Grayson can potentially be... or that some where down the line (hopefully before I pass away )... someone will have another crack at it. But this time taking it seriously, Joel!


~HoH~