The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!!

Do you want to see Robin appear in a future BB movie?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't care/ Who's Robin?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't care/ Who's Robin?


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This topic is not needed. Bale and Nolan should not change their minds. Robin is too young and immature to add into a franchise such as this. Adding Robin would kill the movies, this is why I am stating that Robin does not need to be added and will not be added. I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating a fact according to the director and main star of the films.
 
This topic is not needed.
No topic anywhere on this forum is needed. But this is a discussion forum, and we are having a discussion about something we want (or don't want, as the case may be) in the sequel. If people discussing things bothers you, well, I can't imagine why you'd visit a discussion forum.

Bale and Nolan should not change their minds. Robin is too young and immature to add into a franchise such as this. Adding Robin would kill the movies, this is why I am stating that Robin does not need to be added and will not be added. I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating a fact according to the director and main star of the films.

"It's a fact that Robin will ruin everything! Nevermind why! You guys shouldn't be talking about it!" Haha, stellar. Were you captain of the debate team in high school?

Thanks for the laugh, if nothing else.
 
Topics here are needed to a certain degree, but this is pointless. You can keep wanting Robin and asking Nolan to cast him, but its not going to happen. And I'm here, only to tell you that.

And I never said this "It's a fact that Robin will ruin everything! Nevermind why! You guys shouldn't be talking about it!" so I have no idea what your talking about.

And you're not funny, even though you might think you are. What you stated barely made sense.
 
Topics here are needed to a certain degree, but this is pointless. You can keep wanting Robin and asking Nolan to cast him, but its not going to happen.
Yes, and by your standard that makes every single discussion in the bat-forums pointless, as none will result in change. Nevertheless, they continue because people find the discussions interesting, as the 44 pages of replies here indicate. If you don't find the discussion interesting, there is a simple solution: don't click the link.

And I never said this "It's a fact that Robin will ruin everything! Nevermind why! You guys shouldn't be talking about it!" so I have no idea what your talking about.
Not in those words, no, but your sentiment was clear: first, in your words, you said "This topic is not needed," then "Robin will kill the movies," then claimed that you're "not arguing anything," but rather "stating a fact." Hence, my characterization of your post.

And you're not funny, even though you might think you are. What you stated barely made sense.
Your inability to comprehend my posts seems more your problem than mine.
 
Your last post made no sense, man. And 44 pages here is not that impressive and most people agree with me. Robin is not needed.
 
Your last post made no sense, man.
It's seems a lot of things don't make sense to you. But, again, your inability to make sense of simple posts is your dilemma, not mine.

And 44 pages here is not that impressive
Nor did I say it was; I only said it indicates the discussion is of interest to the people posting. Please pay closer attention.

and most people agree with me. Robin is not needed.
Sadly, this does not mean the discussion "is not needed," nor does it make any of your arguments any less flawed.
 
If Two Face remains dead, then I think that may actually increase the necessity of Robin, or a character like him, because Harvey was the role that most clearly personified the unrelenting harshness of Gotham and a personal relationship with Bruce Wayne and Batman that hinged on shared responsibility in the latter respect. In a different way, Robin can share those aspects, as a young man who is extended the hand of friendship and protection by the lonely and distant Wayne, as a result of a personal tragedy for which Batman feels implicit responsiblity.

Finding a way of introducing Robin without breaking the tone of TDK is difficult, but not impossible. I would be tempted to fuse his character with that of Cassandra Caine. Make him a Chinese boy, who is lost in an alien country once his father figure is assassinated by loan-shark Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot. But the circus with which he travelled was Shaolin, and his protector was also his mentor in martial arts.

In that way, our Robin's cultural and economic obligation to listlessness and revenge are already suggested, and Batman seems less callous in allowing him to be involved in brutal violence. Bruce Wayne would be doing little that is more strange than Mrs and Mr Jolie in collecting ethnically different children, also.

Is this because he's Chinese, or Shaolin? I don't see why either would make any huge difference on screen. Dick Grayson comes from a hardworking circus family and hes already been training and traveling his whole life, he's hardly going sit around. And why would either Chinese or Shaolin kids be more predisposed to revenge over any other child in the company of Batman? The influence of Batman is a far more important I'd think. Also aren't gypsy's strong on family loyalty and honour like that too (or is that a stereotype who knows)? Cool idea in general I just don't get what you mean here.

Also Bruce seeming callous, reckless and selfish in his aim of drafting Robin is something very valuable and relevant I think, it should be dealt with head-on and not swept under the carpet. It's why I think Robin should be 18, the age bright-eyed boys are recruited to fight in grown mens wars. That can be a huge angle on film.

Huge agreement on Robin picking up where Harvey left off. That notion is critical to Robin and I didn't realise it could be connected to Harvey in such a way :up:
 
batman obviously hates help, look what he did to those copycats.
so nolan...... dont add robin.
 
batman obviously hates help, look what he did to those copycats.
so nolan...... dont add robin.

Yeah, or like, when Alfred and Lucius, and Gordon, and Dent and Rachel try to help him and stuff, Batman's just like **** i dont need help!

Wait... what character are we talking about again?
 
alright gordon almost died, alfreds cool, lucius threatened to quit, and dent and dawes are both dead. so much for helping batman right?
 
Yeah, or like, when Alfred and Lucius, and Gordon, and Dent and Rachel try to help him and stuff, Batman's just like **** i dont need help!

Wait... what character are we talking about again?

LOL!
 
I think it isn't so much that Batman doesn't want help. He just doesn't want people doing something they're not able to or are equipped to ("I don't wear hokey pants"...).

And just because he doesn't want help, doesn't mean he doesn't need it. It's not an if and only if thing.

Oh, and HereToComment27, your arguments really don't hold up. Saying that the majority are behind you isn't a very good argument (the majority can be, and has been, very wrong). And if you say this topic is unnecessary, then I think you misunderstand the nature of these discussion boards. Go to the Superman Returns Sequel forum. I've been there two years now waiting for a sequel. Others have been there longer waiting for a reboot. Our discussions are pointless, and yet we still have them.

There not being any effect on something does not make a discussion null. That is all.
 
good point about the copy cats not being equipped to do crime fighting. but would batman care if there was a copy cat that was well equipped, better than batman himself?

oh yeah on a side note, i thought he said "because im not wearing hockey pads", not sure just thought thats what he said.
 
They sound very close. Either of us could be right (haven't read the script).
 
Is this because he's Chinese, or Shaolin? I don't see why either would make any huge difference on screen. Dick Grayson comes from a hardworking circus family and hes already been training and traveling his whole life, he's hardly going sit around. And why would either Chinese or Shaolin kids be more predisposed to revenge over any other child in the company of Batman? The influence of Batman is a far more important I'd think. Also aren't gypsy's strong on family loyalty and honour like that too (or is that a stereotype who knows)? Cool idea in general I just don't get what you mean here.

Also Bruce seeming callous, reckless and selfish in his aim of drafting Robin is something very valuable and relevant I think, it should be dealt with head-on and not swept under the carpet. It's why I think Robin should be 18, the age bright-eyed boys are recruited to fight in grown mens wars. That can be a huge angle on film.

Huge agreement on Robin picking up where Harvey left off. That notion is critical to Robin and I didn't realise it could be connected to Harvey in such a way :up:

from my experiances with gypsies they would stab their own mother in the back if they could make a quick buck for it.
 
^ yikes. all I know is that recently here some people were killed in a wedding of two gypsey clans because someone whispered a slur about the bride. The uncles, aunts, grandparents and kids all got in a brawl with weapons they bought specifically to the wedding if anything broke out. utter madness. weird folk.

I think it isn't so much that Batman doesn't want help. He just doesn't want people doing something they're not able to or are equipped to ("I don't wear hokey pants"...).

And just because he doesn't want help, doesn't mean he doesn't need it. It's not an if and only if thing.

ha ha. Hockey pads! sorry if you were joking, it's funny either way :yay:

anyway what better way to make sure a person is equipped than to equip them yourself? The way I see it, Batman accepts that copy cats will always be a continuing inevitable problem. So he may as well get at least one of them turning out right, and eventually, tap into that stream with others. Furthermore when he sees young orphan Dick Grayson all twisted up he knows with certainty that he's the kind of kid who'll either become a copycat vigilante, or become a vengeful hate-riven criminal. He almost has no choice BUT to take him in and equip him to lead a happier and (to Bruce's mind) a more productive life.
 
maybe theres stories of another vigilante out in gotham, but one who is much more brutal and beats the crims to within a inch of their lives? and then batman and this mysterious vigilante just so happen to be at the same drug deal or whatever and batman analyzes this other person. and when it looks like they will strike a killing blow he swoops down to stop them. he then realises this person can obviously handle themselves and makes it a mission to instill morals and rules to this person? that could be a good realistic way to introduce robin.
 
Was it Jeph Loeb or Paul Dini who speculated that Batman took in Dick Grayson because he anticipated his terrifying potential, and realised that his anger had to be chanelled for good? I think it was one or the other, and it's a fine idea.
 
seeing he's never worn that I wouldn't call him that. and dark is better contrasted to bright. any i just wouldn't bother with that title ether.
 
Yeah, or like, when Alfred and Lucius, and Gordon, and Dent and Rachel try to help him and stuff, Batman's just like **** i dont need help!

Wait... what character are we talking about again?

Wait.. which of those characters was trained by Batman for years to be his sidekick?
 
Was it Jeph Loeb or Paul Dini who speculated that Batman took in Dick Grayson because he anticipated his terrifying potential, and realised that his anger had to be chanelled for good? I think it was one or the other, and it's a fine idea.

And, of course, there's the Frank Miller approach, where Robin is a barely-contained psychopath who eventually becomes a serial killer Joker wannabe with a healing factor.

God, I hate DK2. I wish I could hate it to death.

Anyways, I would prefer to avoid tampering too much with his background. A lot of the proposals for including Robin have been extremely revisionary (many based on Dick, before meeting Bruce, going out and doing the vigilante thing on his own). Obviously this is an attempt to work around some of the more unbelievable aspects of Robin, but I think we can do this in a less revisionary way.

Yes, being a circus acrobat isn't going to prepare him for combat, but then, we don't necessarily need him to prepared for combat. I don't think there are many ways to make this work in the atmosphere of these films, but I think the most obvious way is Bruce to use combat training (among other things) as a method of channelling Dick's anger, whereas Bruce, at that age, had nothing and end up lost. I think it's important that the idea of a sidekick never occur to Bruce. It would just be a opportunity to vent and focus on something useful. So, that's how we start to prepare Dick for combat.

After Dick (who let's say is fifteen or sixteen) finds out Bruce is Batman, obviously Dick has ideas. Dick goes out on his own to try and put what he's learned to use. Of course, this is not acceptable and Batman wants to put a stop to it. When conventional solutions don't work, Bruce decides the solution may be to offer Dick the closure Bruce didn't have: bring in Zucco. I think the idea here would be to involve Dick in the investigation, so that when Zucco goes down, Dick feels like he's accomplished something and can let it go. Leading up to this, we'd see a Dick's training. I think that while combat is essential, it would be useful to focus on investigative technique, surveillance techniques. We perhaps see Dick doing stuff like Bruce's hobo-disguise eaves-dropping in Begins; utterly dangerless tasks that involve him in the effort to get Zucco. Not only are these useful in nailing Zucco without putting Dick in any danger, but they also create a precedent for Robin to be focused on support, not combat. I'm sort of torn as to whether or not Batman would actually involve him in the physical capture of Zucco, as he did in DV. Bruce might, or, if not, Dick would get involved against Bruce's will. If Bruce does allow it, that solves the costume problem: even though it's supposed to be a one-time deal, Dick has to be protected, so Bruce might put something together for him. Perhaps he cannibalizes his old suits to build one for Dick and slaps a flack jacket on top (for the tunic). Obviously it wouldn't be coloured red yet, nor would it have the R on it, and maybe not even a cape. It would be purely functional.

Anyways, it's tricky. If Bruce allows Dick to participate in the physical takedown, it has to be designed so that Bruce has solid reason to believe Dick will be safe. If he doesn't, Dick will have to find another way to get a costume, and more importantly, Bruce's plan to give Dick closure is a little weaker. Either way, when Zucco is down, it's over as far as bruce is concerned.

Naturally, the plan backfires, and Dick isn't satisfied to put it away and go back to normalcy. We're near the end of the film now, so the next part is easy: Dick, having reworked the armour into a Robin costume, gets involved in the climax without Bruce's consent. They work together because there's no option at this point, with Dick already involved.

When all is said and done, it might be better to leave Dick's future as Robin uncertain. I don't know that it would work for bruce to say "You helped me beat the Riddler, welcome aboard!" Bruce might realize that he's not going to be able to dissuade Dick, so maybe Bruce simply allows Dick the opportunity to prove himself. Not immediately in the field, but through whatever tests or methods Batman might have ahead; a long, gruelling process where, knowing Dick is going to get out on his own eventually, Bruce does his best to build a better version of himself in Dick. He can't stop him at this point, so he opts to work to keep him alive.

Alternative, it could simply be ambiguous: you have bruce grimly contemplating the matter at the end of the film; understanding the insanity of it, but unsure of a way to really dissuade Dick. Some of the audience go home assuming that this is the end of Robin. others, the opposite.

Bottom line, it's never going to be cut and dry, where you can say "Batman definitely did the right thing." It shouldn't be. Conflict is what fiction is about. Hard decisions, sometimes insane ones. It's a challenge to make this one workable, but I don't think it's insurmountable.

Ah, one thing I forgot: I think it's important to establish Dick as an extremely gifted child. Not just physically, but mentally as well. Like the Battle School students in Ender's Game (though not to that degree, as those damn kids were smarter than the adults, who were themselves smart).
 
Was it Jeph Loeb or Paul Dini who speculated that Batman took in Dick Grayson because he anticipated his terrifying potential, and realised that his anger had to be chanelled for good? I think it was one or the other, and it's a fine idea.
I like this idea. Batman sees that he lost Harvey to the dark side (so to speak), and is determined not to let that happen again to this young, angry orphan. This would be similar to the approach taken in Dark Victory (where Batman laments that his not trusting Harvey fully may have contributed to his downfall), so he opens up to Dick. I personally think this would be a great way to introduce Robin into the franchise - he's not the focal point of the story, just a very important subplot.
 
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