The Dark Knight Now that its said and done, what would you change?

[Mr. Earle]

The only issues I had ... and I consider this by far the best comic book movie, and one of the best films of all-time.

Two-Face was far too cartoonish in the looks department for my taste. I was looking for something much more subtle, believable, and engaging. Didn't go with the visuals of the rest of the film, or even from Batman Begins in context.

Batman's lenses looked stupid and ridiculous, even more so in the context of this movie. Plus, there was no point. If Lucious was relaying him the info, why would he need them anyway? Or vice a versa, if he had them, why would he need Lucious? And then if he wasn't wearing them, the glitch wouldn't have allowed Joker to get a one up on him in the Pruitt building.

I thought the Hong Kong plot point kind of shortly derailed the stronger focus of the movie. That being the war in Gotham City.

Cool sequences, and shows Batman "has no limits" ... but it kind of distracts you given the rest of the movie.

1) Batsonar: Nolan wanted batman to get hit and thats where it comes down to: PLOT. If batman didnt have that glitch, the joker would have been arrested instantly. The end. As for Fox, well he did monitor things while batman was busy fighting, but on the other hand, batman needed to have that visual himself, because you cant have fox giving him directions all the time "two bad guys on your 6 o'clock". Plus, am i the only one that found it to be a damn cool gadget?

2) Hong Kong: I found it refreshing. On a movie so packed with action and grittiness, i found HK to be a breath of fresh cool air and more than that it did help Nolan establish Gotham as a city in a world, and not a city in a fantasy realm or a matchbox (*cough burton).

 

[Infinity9999x]

Dent wasnt out to destroy Gotham or become a mob boss like his comic counterpart. He was out to seek "justice" for Rachel. Perhaps he could serve justice to everyone with his chance system, but would that be interesting?
The point is made. We know how and why he lost it, we know how he sees justice now, what's the point of watching a movie that focuses on that again?
Sure Two-Face is batman's second or third villain but Nolan gave him a short, though full handling. I think that he has already left his mark and made his point.

And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.

And I have to completley disagree with you, Nolan did not give Two-Face a full handling. Two-Face is a very unique character in that he's literally two people within one body. Nolan could have explored that more by saving him for the next movie. Gone deeper into how the Two-Face and Dent personality interact with one another. Not only that, he could have expanded on Two-Face's obsession with duality and justice. You could easily pull a whole plot about how this could effect Gotham. I'll put it in spoiler tags to shorten my post so I don't take up half a page.

Spoiler

What I would have done (and this is just an idea I just thought up) would be to show how deeply Harvey becomes obsessed with justice and the duality of things. After the death of Rachel, and realizing how even Gordon's unit was extremely corrupted, Harvey would have viewed the entire city as letting him down. Everything he believed in, his sense of justice, was shattered in the moment that Rachel was killed.

Harvey wants revenge on all the things that betray him, so his Two-Face side sets out to gain control of the mob, to wage war on the justice system which he once tried to champion, but it ultimately failed him. On the other hand, the Dent personality goes out and finds information on the next DA who is running to take Harvey's place. After finding some dirt on him, he blackmails the DA, and in addition to that, gains control of some of the other main lawyers and judges in the justice system through threats and blackmail, effectively gaining control of the court system.

He then makes both sides go at eachother in a suicide battle, making the mob pull aggressive attacks and robberies, while at the same time having the laywers and judges he has under his control begin to order out extreme meausers to capture the members of the mob. Basically, he puts both sides in a situation where they'll destroy eachother. He sets up some of his main mob boys to get killed and captured by the police, while at the same time carring out hits against judges and lawyers, putting both sides into a frenzy.

In other words, he effictively puts Gotham into an all out war between the Law and Order and the mob, which would be perfect revenge for two-face, because he's equally punishing both sides responsible for Rachel's death and his condition.

At the same time, he'd use his power to try and dirty Gordon's name and make Batman an outlaw, getting his revenge on both of them.

Throughout all of this, I would also make good use of Two-Face's psyche, demonstrating how messed up he really is. I'd expand his character by having Bats investigate Dent's past, discovering the traumatic events that happened in his life and his abusive childhood, which set him up for his fall, even before Rachel.

And I don't really see you're point when you say "why do we need to see this all again in the next movie?"

The whole point is we wouldn't this thread is about changes I would have made, and as I said already, I would have ended the movie with Two-Face shooting Weurtz. The audience wouldn't be introduced to his view of justice.

I think its time we moved on, since Dent's arc dominated TDK, so he would just be a freak killing people in the next movie. There wouldnt be anywhere else to take him as a character.

If you read what I typed up for a spoiler, I think you'll see I think there's much we could do with the character. And Yes, Dent's arc dominated TDK, but Two-Face was barely in it. You have to realize that Dent and Two-Face are two completely different characters.

And the Dark Knight ending could still be easily established. You could re-work Gordon's speach or introduce it in another way. The Dark Knight ending was just thrown in in the last five minutes of the movie.

 

[hatebox]

This has basically turned into the 'disappointment thread'.

 

[Anita18]

Its obvious that Nolan wanted to have his own music, not use someone else's. So they wouldnt have done that in any case.
I liked the score just fine! I liked the Begins one and i expected it to reappear here with a few changes as it did. I especially love "I am not a hero" and "why so serious" which always gave us goosebumps everytime the joker was about to do his thang!

TDK's score really isn't all that much to write about in terms of melody, but in terms of working in the film, I thought it was perfect. Whenever Joker appeared, there was that grating electronic buzzing note that just brought tension by virtue of it being there. And the low bass beats gave weight to the proper moments in the film.

And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.

That depends on your view of the character. The most compelling Batman story for me was The Long Halloween, when you see just how Dent turns. He feels that the system of law that he had been working in has betrayed him, so he throws all that away and starts to implement his own brand of justice, as Two-Face. That's the version of Two-Face Nolan has in TDK. Had he lived, I expect that he would have gone after criminals like Batman did, except using lethal force at times.

I don't feel that there has to be two completely different personalities fighting within Dent's body to make the character compelling. Dark Victory wasn't nearly as good a story for me.

And from what we've seen, Nolan's Dent was not abused as a child. The coin that he uses is his "father's lucky coin," implying that he had a good relationship with his dad. Why would he carry it around and jokingly use it if it was a marker of a horrible childhood?

And the Dark Knight ending could still be easily established. You could re-work Gordon's speach or introduce it in another way. The Dark Knight ending was just thrown in in the last five minutes of the movie.

It wouldn't have had the same impact, I don't think. And they do hint at this conclusion throughout the film. Harvey sacrifices his own reputation when he turns himself in as Batman. Alfred acknowledges this act as "being more than a hero." At the end of the film, Batman does the same. And then the circle is completed, etc etc.

Watching TDK again last night, I was reminded that they movie could have ended when they caught Joker after the Slaughter truck chase. Then Joker's trial could have started off the next movie and Harvey gets scarred then, and so on. But it would have been the formulaic "yaay they caught the bad guys and now everything's fine and dandy!" ending, and it wouldn't have finished the overall arc of the film.





I actually wish that Nolan could have the chance to go back and rework BB's story so it could be on par with TDK, because it got a bit formulaic with the final fight with Ra's. And have Maggie Gyllenhaal film Katie's scenes instead. t:

 

[Infinity9999x]

That depends on your view of the character. The most compelling Batman story for me was The Long Halloween, when you see just how Dent turns. He feels that the system of law that he had been working in has betrayed him, so he throws all that away and starts to implement his own brand of justice, as Two-Face. That's the version of Two-Face Nolan has in TDK. Had he lived, I expect that he would have gone after criminals like Batman did, except using lethal force at times.

I don't feel that there has to be two completely different personalities fighting within Dent's body to make the character compelling. Dark Victory wasn't nearly as good a story for me.

I suppose we just have different views of the character. However, in TLHW, we see that Dent does have a different personality. He speaks differently when Two-Face is in control, and we see how both sides of him work differently. Two-Face ruthlessly murders those he sees as responsible for his predicament, Dent on the other hand, turns himself in to be handled by a court of law.

And from what we've seen, Nolan's Dent was not abused as a child. The coin that he uses is his "father's lucky coin," implying that he had a good relationship with his dad. Why would he carry it around and jokingly use it if it was a marker of a horrible childhood?

The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.

It wouldn't have had the same impact, I don't think. And they do hint at this conclusion throughout the film. Harvey sacrifices his own reputation when he turns himself in as Batman. Alfred acknowledges this act as "being more than a hero." At the end of the film, Batman does the same. And then the circle is completed, etc etc.

Watching TDK again last night, I was reminded that they movie could have ended when they caught Joker after the Slaughter truck chase. Then Joker's trial could have started off the next movie and Harvey gets scarred then, and so on. But it would have been the formulaic "yaay they caught the bad guys and now everything's fine and dandy!" ending, and it wouldn't have finished the overall arc of the film.

If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.

And if you look at my original post, I never said I wanted the Joker to scar Dent. I said the only thing I'd change was that the movie would end with Dent's first appearance shooting Weurtz. You would still have the same ending with the Joker, and Joker dropping the ominious hint about Dent.

But instead of having Dent's character be wrapped up in the last 15mins of the film, it would carry on to the next film. It still carries the same message that the original ending had, in fact, it's a bit more bleak, because Batman and Gordon don't have the chance to cover up what Dent will do and help save Gotham's spirit.

 

[Anita18]

The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.

Possible, but it wouldn't really mesh with the Harvey that appeared in TDK. It would almost be a retcon.

If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.

Not the same. Batman must decide on his own to take the fall. That's the conclusion of his arc, and what makes the ending so powerful. Gordon even refuses to go along at first, but Batman is adamant that it must be done.

And if you look at my original post, I never said I wanted the Joker to scar Dent. I said the only thing I'd change was that the movie would end with Dent's first appearance shooting Weurtz. You would still have the same ending with the Joker, and Joker dropping the ominious hint about Dent.

My observation about the possibility of the film ending earlier than it did wasn't as much as a response to your post, as it was my own rambling.

 

[Ziggyman]

I wouldn't change a thang!

 

[metalhead_dave]

I'd tweak the cowl and have Bale tone down the Batvoice a bit and tone up his voice as private Bruce Wayne.

Other than that, nothing bothers me and it's an amazing movie.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

1) Batsonar: Nolan wanted batman to get hit and thats where it comes down to: PLOT. If batman didnt have that glitch, the joker would have been arrested instantly. The end. As for Fox, well he did monitor things while batman was busy fighting, but on the other hand, batman needed to have that visual himself, because you cant have fox giving him directions all the time "two bad guys on your 6 o'clock".

But he was giving him the directions, the ENTIRE time. You could have easily have found a way to have Joker gain an advtanage on Batman with the use of sonar lenses. It's a great concept in theory, and if it was applied in a more believable manner ... it could've been perfect. But it look terrible in the context of the film. It was way too "techy" even for Batman. Or at least too sci-fi tech looking. If it was more grounded, I would've been all over it. The desing of the lenses, and they way they just appear ... it was terribly out of place. I mean he looked half real, half cartoon when this huge blazing white lenses just pop out of no where from the cowl. It was totally stupid.

Plus, am i the only one that found it to be a damn cool gadget?

It's cool. But not the way it was designed and used in the movie.

2) Hong Kong: I found it refreshing.

I did too ... that's not what's in question

On a movie so packed with action and grittiness, i found HK to be a breath of fresh cool air

It was cool, but it didn't fit with the narrative of the story. Of all the professional reviews of the film, this is one of the only questionably bad things about the script. It derails the focus and strongest points of the film. Briefly, but it does derail it. The movie is building so strong before it with the Joker, Batman / Dent / Gordon's destruction of the remaining criminal elements of Gotham. It's a piece of ADD in the narrative of a very strong script otherwise.

and more than that it did help Nolan establish Gotham as a city in a world, and not a city in a fantasy realm or a matchbox (*cough burton).

We already got that with Batman Begins. And we didn't actually need to see Hong Kong in order to understand this ... Gotham in Nolan's universe is clearly a modern American city. Not one built to look like a weird Gothic twist to a German or old European city. Lau being mentioned as being from Hong Kong was enough. Besides, Gotham being a modern city landscape, visually it wasn't that different from Hong Kong anyway.

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Possible, but it wouldn't really mesh with the Harvey that appeared in TDK. It would almost be a retcon.

That's why I'd make it a plot point of having Bat's look into Harvey's past in the third movie, and discovering all the things that happened to him. It would make him more tragic to see all the horrific things that happened to him.

Not the same. Batman must decide on his own to take the fall. That's the conclusion of his arc, and what makes the ending so powerful. Gordon even refuses to go along at first, but Batman is adamant that it must be done.

I think you could have it have the same impact.

Gordon and Bats are discussing the aftermath, then Gorden gets beeped. He reads his pager and realizes that he's going to have to bring Batman in. He looks to Batman.
"They're calling for your arrest."
Batman: "They always are."
Gordon: "No, you don't understand. The Mayor's just ordered an extensive warrant, I'm going to have to come after you. The city's devastated, and with Dent missing, the people want someone to answer for everything. They want blood."
Batman looks off for a moment, then turns back to Gordon.
Batman: "I guess we'll have to find another way of contacting eachother from now on, I doubt they'll let you keep that light."
Gordon looks at Batman confused...
Gordon: "But...I'm going to have to hunt you..."
Batman: "Then hunt me, set the dogs on me, do whatever you have to. I'm not leaving this city. It needs me."

The whole movie dealt with Bruce's desire to hang up his mantle of Batman. At the end of the movie Bruce realizes he can't hang up the mantle of Batman, and that Batman has to be more then a hero, sometimes he has to be viewed as a villain to the public.

This ending would have the same message. Bruce has accepted his mantle, he will never give it up, and he's willing to be a chased outlaw to continue his cause.

My observation about the possibility of the film ending earlier than it did wasn't as much as a response to your post, as it was my own rambling.

Ahh, ok then.

 

[Mr. Earle]

And have Maggie Gyllenhaal film Katie's scenes instead. t:

Maggie looks her age, while Katie doesnt. I dont think she could have pulled off the teenager part of the role.

And that right there is a fundamental problem I had with the handling of the character. Two-Face is not a character out solely for revenge. When Dent becomes scarred, his psyche gets fragmented. Two-Face is a completely different personality, he's not just a scarred Dent who wants revenge. He's a completely new person that is formed inside Dent's mind, one obsessed with a warped sense of justice that is tied to chance and duality.

Just like Nolan tweaked the Joker a bit, he did the same with Two-Face. I didnt say that Nolan's Two-Face is only out for revenge. I said that he is serving his "justice" to those that are responsible for him and Rachel. After that i dont think that he would go on killing people or become a mob boss. I think that he would probably kill himself as he wouldnt want to live after that psychological trauma (indeed in the film he doesnt want to escape. He just wants to deal justice and then die or get arrested). Nolan's Two-Face isnt a wacko obsessed with the number 2. He doesnt have 2 girlfriends who make him two meals. He doesnt choose his hideout on the second floor of 2, 2nd Street. He is merely a man pushed over the edge. The only aspect of the number two in this version is the 50-50 chance that his victims have when he tosses the coin. And his face of course.

I think that this version is a lot more tragic because it was so short lived and because Two-Face doesnt become a mob boss who -like the joker- spends half of his time killing people and half in Arkham. I would have liked to see the dual personality Two-face, but Nolan obviously made his Two-face a new person altogether, not one torn by two personalities.

But on the other hand i wouldnt want him to have that obsession with number two. Its just ridiculous sometimes.

 

[Anita18]

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.

It still plays a role in the plot, because we get to see what Batman is capable of. And the Hong Kong mission was the only truly successful thing he pulled off during the entire film. The rest of the film, he can only try to minimize the collateral damage in Joker's wake.

I think you could have it have the same impact.

Gordon and Bats are discussing the aftermath, then Gorden gets beeped. He reads his pager and realizes that he's going to have to bring Batman in. He looks to Batman.
"They're calling for your arrest."
Batman: "They always are."
Gordon: "No, you don't understand. The Mayor's just ordered an extensive warrant, I'm going to have to come after you. The city's devastated, and with Dent missing, the people want someone to answer for everything. They want blood."
Batman looks off for a moment, then turns back to Gordon.
Batman: "I guess we'll have to find another way of contacting eachother from now on, I doubt they'll let you keep that light."
Gordon looks at Batman confused...
Gordon: "But...I'm going to have to hunt you..."
Batman: "Then hunt me, set the dogs on me, do whatever you have to. I'm not leaving this city. It needs me."

The whole movie dealt with Bruce's desire to hang up his mantle of Batman. At the end of the movie Bruce realizes he can't hang up the mantle of Batman, and that Batman has to be more then a hero, sometimes he has to be viewed as a villain to the public.

This ending would have the same message. Bruce has accepted his mantle, he will never give it up, and he's willing to be a chased outlaw to continue his cause.

It does have the same message, but Batman's character wouldn't be as compelling. In your version, he's just accepting the fate that other people have dealt him. In TDK, he makes the decision himself. He gets the ball rolling. He's just not taking it sitting down.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The fact that he still keeps the coin could be a testament to how screwed up he is. Many abused children still love their parents, and Harvey's dad could have been one of those kind of people who's the "perfect dad" one day and a monster the next. The fact that he still keeps his fathers coin could show us how he still can't completely forget his father.

Or that he doesnt have the origin you want him to and that you are seeing what you want to see. Anyone who didnt know 2face before TDK will testify that there is no such thing implied in the movie. Therefore, Dent didnt have Jigsaw as his father. He was always on the verge of breaking the law trying to enforce it, and after the death of rachel he finally loses his faith in the justice system. He now believes that its all down to luck. I find it better than the "durr my father hit me, now i cant control my rage and i throw da coins in the air".

If you still wanted the Dark Knight ending, what you could have is at the end of the movie, have the city and city officals enraged that Harvey Dent is missing, and that the city has sustained so much damage at the hands of the Joker. The mayor orders the capture of Batman and Batman must still go on the run.

Its not about Batman running from the cops. Its about him taking the blame for multiple murders he did not commit, only because that way he would serve Gotham. That was the point of the movie. Not Dent's father or his double personality. You are dismissing the best part of the film only because you want to see BTAS or the Long Halloween in a live action film. Just go watch BTAS already.

Also, about the film's ending, people consider the Two-face abduction part as an afterthough only because the joker is the main villain and ooooh canon says that the film must end with the good guy catching the main bad guy. Also, the set of the abduction didnt help either. It was rather bland, while people expected something spectacular to end the film.

 

[Mr. Earle]

But he was giving him the directions, the ENTIRE time. You could have easily have found a way to have Joker gain an advtanage on Batman with the use of sonar lenses. It's a great concept in theory, and if it was applied in a more believable manner ... it could've been perfect. But it look terrible in the context of the film. It was way too "techy" even for Batman. Or at least too sci-fi tech looking. If it was more grounded, I would've been all over it. The desing of the lenses, and they way they just appear ... it was terribly out of place. I mean he looked half real, half cartoon when this huge blazing white lenses just pop out of no where from the cowl. It was totally stupid.

You obviously havent read any comics. You should see the tech batman uses there! You'd be amazed!

Now, to me, it looked like sonar. Special lenses for batman to see better than his opponents. The lenses appeared somewhat like head up display or holograms in front of his eyes which i liked as well. To each his own i guess.

We already got that with Batman Begins. And we didn't actually need to see Hong Kong in order to understand this ... Gotham in Nolan's universe is clearly a modern American city. Not one built to look like a weird Gothic twist to a German or old European city. Lau being mentioned as being from Hong Kong was enough. Besides, Gotham being a modern city landscape, visually it wasn't that different from Hong Kong anyway.

All in all, it was cool. But it wasn't needed at all. And it derails the plot, and IMO substitutes for more interesting scenes you could've had within Gotham, or potentially another Joker scene or two.

You got a point there. On the other hand, all this happened at the beginning of the film where **** hadnt hit the fan yet.
And no, i wouldnt replace the skyhook with the joker. I think we got enough of him. Burton already made that mistake.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

It still plays a role in the plot

Yes, it plays a role in the plot. That's why it was written in ... but the focus of the movie is derailed.

Derrr, are you getting this? This isn't the first time this criticism has been raised.

The pros saw it too.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

I would've added scene with Bruce dealing with his parents. His motivations from BB seemes non-existant here. Still loved Batman's arc, but would've loved to have seen that.


Other than that, nothing else.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

You obviously havent read any comics. You should see the tech batman uses there! You'd be amazed!

How do you get that I've never read a comic based off any of that? LOL

And this isn't a comic. It's a movie. And a take on the character much more grounded and gritty then the one seen on the comic page. It didn't flow even with the rest of the technology seen in the film that felt real. It was cartoonish.

Burton already made that mistake.

We def. got enough Joker to keep him interesting, threatning, and mysterious at all times ... But I def. think something better could've been done then going to Hong Kong.

It felt really awkward to me for some reason.

Gotham exists in a real expansive world. But seeing Batman operating outside of Gotham felt abit ... IDK ... different.

It's like those stupid comic scenes from the 70's era where you'd see Batman in costume with a parka on in the snow outside of Gotham.

Keep the urban legend of Batman in Gotham.

IDK, I liked the scene ... but it still felt awkward to me for some reason.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

I would've added scene with Bruce dealing with his parents. His motivations from BB seemes non-existant here. Still loved Batman's arc, but would've loved to have seen that.

We didn't need that ... the loss of his parents as innocents is reflected in the loss of Rachel.

Even the dialogue that follows between Bruce and Alfred, while Bruce is crying and mourning the loss is the exact same dialogue almost beat for beat that he had with Bruce after his parents death in BEGINS.

Great touch, and a subtle way to connect the two films even more.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

We didn't need that ... the loss of his parents as innocents is reflected in the loss of Rachel.

Even the dialogue that follows between Bruce and Alfred, while Bruce is crying and mourning the loss is the exact same dialogue almost beat for beat that he had with Bruce after his parents death in BEGINS.

Great touch, and a subtle way to connect the two films even more.

I know, but at least a mention would've satisfied me.

 

[Mr. Earle]

That's why I'd make it a plot point of having Bat's look into Harvey's past in the third movie, and discovering all the things that happened to him. It would make him more tragic to see all the horrific things that happened to him.

You said it earlier yourself. The backbone of TDK was Dent. The movie focused on him to make us sympathise with him, to show us who he is and why he does why he does. That way his change can be justified. If Nolan's Two-face owed his transformation to his abusive father, you would have seen it in the movie.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

I know, but at least a mention would've satisfied me.

But why?

It has no bearing on the events in the movie.

Why do we need Bruce angsty fully seen mourning or brooding his parents, like a whiny teen?

Too much is happening. He doesn't have time for that.

Bruce actually felt like a grown man in this film. He had alot on his plate.

 

[Zig-Zag Man]

Two Face the character in TDK, apart from his fantastical look, was a much more solid, complex, and interesting character than the one in the comics. BY FAR.

 

[Mr. Earle]

How do you get that I've never read a comic based off any of that? LOL

And this isn't a comic. It's a movie. And a take on the character much more grounded and gritty then the one seen on the comic page. It didn't flow even with the rest of the technology seen in the film that felt real. It was cartoonish.

Well sorry about that, i dont know how many comics you ve read, but batman sure does crazy things there. Now, as for the sonar, i dont know how a sonar can appear to be more realistic. You probably want it scrapped altogether.

And please dont tell me that its cartoonish, because so is the memory cloth, so is the batmobile and so is the batpod.

We def. got enough Joker to keep him interesting, threatning, and mysterious at all times ... But I def. think something better could've been done then going to Hong Kong.

It felt really awkward to me for some reason.

Gotham exists in a real expansive world. But seeing Batman operating outside of Gotham felt abit ... IDK ... different.

It's like those stupid comic scenes from the 70's era where you'd see Batman in costume with a parka on in the snow outside of Gotham.

Keep the urban legend of Batman in Gotham.

IDK, I liked the scene ... but it still felt awkward to me for some reason.

But he just went there, took Lau and returned. He didnt stay there to become HK's urban legend as well.
For me it was great. In this movie there are many subplots and none of them derails from the main plot. Hong Kong showed that batman has no jurisdiction, while allowing Nolan to use the cruise cover and skyhook. Two great assets of this film.

 

[Anita18]

Yes, it plays a role in the plot. That's why it was written in ... but the focus of the movie is derailed.

Derrr, are you getting this? This isn't the first time this criticism has been raised.

The pros saw it too.

Thanks for being so respectful. You mentioned yourself that it "derailed the plot" which is why I mentioned it had a part in the plot. Now you're saying it wasn't the plot of the movie that was derailed, but the focus.

The "focus" of the movie wasn't really found anyway until Joker started killing people about 40 minutes in (10 minutes of which were devoted to the Hong Kong trip), and that was because the mob lent him the resources to do so. And they were desperate because the guy with all their money had been caught by someone acting outside of the law.

No, it's not the first time I've heard this criticism, but I haven't heard any "pros" aside from critics mention it. In fact, I can find you blog posts from screenwriters who praise TDK's plotting.

Some people also say that the entire Two-Face/Dent/Batman confrontation at the end could have been cut, but even though it would have given Joker the last laugh, it also would have derailed the entire arc of the film. It depends on how the viewer interprets it, but Chris Nolan is too good of a filmmaker to put an entire scene in for the heck of it.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

But why?

It has no bearing on the events in the movie.

Why do we need Bruce angsty fully seen mourning or brooding his parents, like a whiny teen?

Too much is happening. He doesn't have time for that.

Bruce actually felt like a grown man in this film. He had alot on his plate.

Can I not say what I want on this thread? I'm simply answering the OP's question, yet you go and argue my opinion.

All I'm saying is that I would've wanted to see areference to his parents. It doesn't have to be a full scene, or a whole subplot. It could've been just a simple line in the movie. That's what I think.