Oblivion - Part 1

[Ipodman]

I still watch this movie from time to time on my big screen tv. It's one of those films I would just keep playing in the background when i'm busy working on something else.

Hi Kane,

1) No one says "big screen tv" anymore, unless yours is over a hundred inches

2) and you don't like 2001:A Space Odessey? (Jus kiddin... t

But srsly, 2001 is my "background movie" as you put it. I love the music lol, but can't stand to sit down and watch it

 

[DA_Champion]

Then it's a shame the film was not smart enought to pull off those ideas well. the Star Wars Prequels and Twilight movies try to delve into plenty of ideas and themes, that doesn't mean they do it well.

Star Wars Prequels / Twilight / Transformers = logical fallacy of internet geek movie debates.

It's the opposite analogue to "it's not as good as the dark knight".

Admittedly, I've made those bad arguments too :P

Anyway, the movie pulled off drone warfare very well, minus the victorious ending.

 

[Lord]

Star Wars Prequels / Twilight / Transformers = logical fallacy of internet geek movie debates.

It's the opposite analogue to "it's not as good as the dark knight".

Admittedly, I've made those bad arguments too :P

Anyway, the movie pulled off drone warfare very well, minus the victorious ending.

What are you even talking anymore? I like The Dark Knight, but it's far from the best thing ever made. And i didn't put Transformers in there because Michael Bay doesn't go around saying how his films have deep meaning or symbolism, unlike Lucas and Stephanie Myers.

With your whole talk of Drone warfare it seems like you're putting more thought on the themes of the film than the filmmakers ever did. I could argue that Bleach is the most philosophical work of fiction ever done and how it shows that life is blank or that our enemies are allways behind us, but that would only be an excuse for the author's lazyness.

 

[DA_Champion]

With your whole talk of Drone warfare it seems like you're putting more thought on the themes of the film than the filmmakers ever did. I could argue that Bleach is the most philosophical work of fiction ever done and how it shows that life is blank or that our enemies are allways behind us, but that would only be an excuse for the author's lazyness.

Do you realise how dumb that sounds?

***********

I've written in total a few thousand words on a couple internet websites on the movie.

I have pointed to, in that very brief effort, to several examples of the allegory in Oblivion, none of which you've adequately argued against. Your only counterargument thus far is that other people have blown up the moon, an extremely unimpressive counter-argument.

Oblivion is actually quite a deep movie (not the most philosophical movie ever as your strawman of Bleach brings up), and if it was not understood by the general audience, it's because they have not yet been impacted by or made aware of the issue of drone warfare, most Americans have not thought about it in a significant way. It's an allegory to an issue people are not aware of, and thus they see nothing in the movie.

 

[Ipodman]

How do you know how little or how much thought was put into the themes tho... to me, the movie worked very well

 

[Lord]

Do you realise how dumb that sounds?

***********

I've written in total a few thousand words on a couple internet websites on the movie.

What you have written about the movie isn't the same thing Kosinski has said about the movie, unless you're Kosinski, in that case you need to find better scripts

I have pointed to, in that very brief effort, to several examples of the allegory in Oblivion, none of which you've adequately argued against. Your only counterargument thus far is that other people have blown up the moon, an extremely unimpressive counter-argument.

Is that the only post you have read? What about the symbol of old world crippled that has been used in almost every post-apocalyptic story so far? Or that the three main elements it follows being the most used metaphors in blockbusters? (Free will, 9/11 and "the world is not what you think it is"), i don't even remember Drone Warfare being that much of the focus, in least not as much as these three.

Oblivion

is actually quite a deep movie (not the most philosophical movie ever as your strawman of Bleach brings up), and if it was not understood by the general audience, it's because they have not yet been impacted by or made aware of the issue of drone warfare, most Americans have not thought about it in a significant way. It's an allegory to an issue people are not aware of, and thus they see nothing in the movie.

So, the problem is in the general audience? There are plenty of films that they usually don't understand, most of them vastly superior to Oblivion.

How do you know how little or how much thought was put into the themes tho... to me, the movie worked very well

I don't, i can only guess, and from what i see, Kasinski doesn't. Zack Snyder for example is another director who from interviews and statements seems to think he's making deep and complex films, yet his directing is way too shallow for that to work as he thinks it does.

 

[DA_Champion]

Is that the only post you have read? What about the symbol of old world crippled that has been used in almost every post-apocalyptic story so far? Or that the three main elements it follows being the most used metaphors in blockbusters? (Free will, 9/11 and "the world is not what you think it is"),

What about the fact that the movie has a protagonist? That's been done before !!!

i don't even remember Drone Warfare being that much of the focus

If you didn't understand the movie then that explains your general position. Drone warfare was a major theme and plot point of the movie, but given that you didn't understand, it explains why you wouldn't remember it.

 

[Lord]

What about the fact that the movie has a protagonist? That's been done before !!!

Oh my God! It must suck because of that! Or somebody is answering a point with something that has nothing to do with the point.

If you didn't understand the movie then that explains your general position. Drone warfare was a major theme and plot point of the movie, but given that you didn't understand, it explains why you wouldn't remember it.

Don't worry, i don't go to cinema with my brain off, i simply don't go around giving royalties to those who don't deserve it. If you want to see films that actually have well done metaphors and don't fail miserably at their themes, then you should try films from the likes of Paul Thomas Anderson, Nicolas Winding Refn, Richard Linklater, Spike Jonze, Charlie Kaufman, Derek Cianfrance or David Lynch.

Otherwise, you're just overevaluating a medíocre film. Hell, even the critics, who usually have more refined tastes than the usual cinema goer didn't think it was very good, not just the ones in the USA who are used to summer blockbusters, but also others around the world, who are accostumed to very complex films found Oblivion to be medíocre.

 

[Ipodman]

I don't, i can only guess, and from what i see, Kasinski doesn't. Zack Snyder for example is another director who from interviews and statements seems to think he's making deep and complex films, yet his directing is way too shallow for that to work as he thinks it does.

Ah ok... I do think Kasinski is way better than Z-Snyder in fleshing out a good story tho

 

[DA_Champion]

Don't worry, i don't go to cinema with my brain off, i simply don't go around giving royalties to those who don't deserve it. If you want to see films that actually have well done metaphors and don't fail miserably at their themes, then you should try films from the likes of Paul Thomas Anderson, Nicolas Winding Refn, Richard Linklater, Spike Jonze, Charlie Kaufman, Derek Cianfrance or David Lynch.

Otherwise, you're just overevaluating a medíocre film. Hell, even the critics, who usually have more refined tastes than the usual cinema goer didn't think it was very good, not just the ones in the USA who are used to summer blockbusters, but also others around the world, who are accostumed to very complex films found Oblivion to be medíocre.

The critics are not some elite intellectual class. They're mostly average blokes. This isn't the first time that they fail to understand a good movie, and it will not be the last time.

You yourself who has watched a lot of movies had no idea whatsoever what this movie is about. You just admitted two posts up that you didn't know that the drones were an important point.

 

[DA_Champion]

Ah ok... I do think Kasinski is way better than Z-Snyder in fleshing out a good story tho

It's tough to say off two movies. Oblivion is better than Snyder's par, Tron 2, not so much.

 

[Ipodman]

Well, you can compare both director's first 2 movies...

 

[DA_Champion]

Well, you can compare both director's first 2 movies...

Rating all their movies tgat I have watched;

Oblivion
Watchmen
300
Man of steel
Sucker punch
Tron 2

I did watch dawn of the dead but it was a long time ago.

 

[Lord]

Ah ok... I do think Kasinski is way better than Z-Snyder in fleshing out a good story tho

About the plot, i'm not so sure, though Kasinski's directing is vastly superior to Snyder's, and he doesn't seem to be that big of a fan of excess.

The critics are not some elite intellectual class. They're mostly average blokes. This isn't the first time that they fail to understand a good movie, and it will not be the last time.

Many of them have had to study the art and see multiples films, they have been wrong before, but still, they seem to be mostly right. Blade Runner for example was panned in its release because the theatrical cut that the Studio forced on the director didn't have most of what made the movie so good.

You yourself who has watched a lot of movies had no idea whatsoever what this movie is about. You just admitted two posts up that you didn't know that the drones were an important point.

I can not see what was not there.

It's tough to say off two movies. Oblivion is better than Snyder's par, Tron 2, not so much.

Tron Legacy was still better than most of Snyder's films though, in least i see more to learn from there when it comes to how the film was constructed.

 

[Lord]

It's also impressive how with just a 120 million budget they were able to make such a beatiful looking film with so many real props.

 

[DA_Champion]

Drone warfare was a significant part of the movie's plot and themes, and the general carcass was not subtle at all. If you did not understand that, then you did not get the film at all. You have lost nearly all credibility in criticizing the movie.

Few other movies have tackled drone warfare, and it is not discussed much in American media, so I am not surptised that the allegory flew over people's and critics' heads.

 

[Lord]

You mean the drones being used for war? Didn't Star Wars Prequels and The Surrogates do that too?

 

[Octoberist]

fight fight fight fight

 

[MrMaooz]

@DA Champion and Lord:

 

[Octoberist]

I want to send drones to destroy Lord and DA Champion. hahaha

 

[jacobed]

You mean the drones being used for war? Didn't Star Wars Prequels and The Surrogates do that too?

Man you need to stop. Every movie has done everything already, we get it.

 

[Lord]

Not my fault that he keeps mentioning how original the film is, that's what i'm answering to, if you even went to the trouble of reading whay i posted

 

[Octoberist]

I'll end the debate: While Oblivion is an original IP, and I cherish that, it most certainly wears its influences on its sleeve. It barely makes the themes and ideas it's own, so it ends up derivative instead of being inspired by.

Still I enjoyed the film for what it was, though it didn't completely resonate with me.

 

[Lord]

I'll end the debate: While Oblivion is an original IP, and I cherish that, it most certainly wears its influences on its sleeve. It barely makes the themes and ideas it's own, so it ends up derivative instead of being inspired by.

Still I enjoyed the film for what it was, though it didn't completely resonate with me.

What i was trying to say, told on a single post.

Congratulations, and i second that notion

 

[Octoberist]

Because i said it, it's automatically gold!