Official Contest of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[Harlekin]

I'm going to satisfy my sadness at losing Reaper to the fact that Thor won (narrowly, I might add) and I would've lost him against Paibok anyway. Nicely done JH.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Man, I was surprised I started so strong with the votes. I considered that one a throw away match. The only bad part was when the votes started and I was doing so well, I actually got my hopes up that I might win. I wasn't as hopeful that Mondo would advance, as I was that Cyclops wouldn't have to face Thor next round, and potentialy Storm the round after that.

 

[Harlekin]

I will honestly admit I was surprised at the strongness of those opening votes as well. I figured that match properly debated, but apparently it wasn't enough for some. Cyclops vs Thor should be a fun match.

I will say though that I was surprised that you didn't use the vibranium argument when it came to Mondo (although I already had a defense for that), nor did you cite the fact that Storm knows Wakanda pretty well, since she's visited Panther on quite a few occasions. Of course, in both cases, I wisely kept my gob shut.

 

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION: THE RAFT

The Raft is a fictional prison facility for super-human criminals (predominantly supervillians) in the Marvel Universe. It first appeared in Alias #26 as the "Maximum-Maximum Security" facility of the Ryker's Island Maximum Security Penitentiary, a fictionalised version of New York's Riker's Island.

As revealed in New Avengers #1, The Raft is on an island separate from Ryker's Island. The Raft has eight underwater levels of cells. Each cell is surrounded by thick steel and lined with adamantium. The cells have no windows, instead each cell door has a video camera monitoring the inmate it houses. The video surveillance is two-way, allowing for the inmates to see who is looking at them. The inmates' powers are neutralized and they are allowed no human contact.

(The Raft will be empty, except for the two combatants. Anything that would otherwise be inside of The Raft, except for individuals, will be there. That would include such things as whatever weapons or devices that are normally present to keep the inmates in order.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Debating May Begin!!!

 

[JewishHobbit]

I will honestly admit I was surprised at the strongness of those opening votes as well. I figured that match properly debated, but apparently it wasn't enough for some. Cyclops vs Thor should be a fun match.

I will say though that I was surprised that you didn't use the vibranium argument when it came to Mondo (although I already had a defense for that), nor did you cite the fact that Storm knows Wakanda pretty well, since she's visited Panther on quite a few occasions. Of course, in both cases, I wisely kept my gob shut.

I honestly don't really know how Vibranium works enough to debate it. I thought about having Mondo become Vibranium while combining with it, but I didn't know what would happen or if that would hurt or help Mondo. I just didn't know how to use the stuff.

As for Storm and knowledge of the location, I just didn't see it helping the arguments at all. She'd know the location, but it wouldn't effect the match I don't think, so I didn't mess with it.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I thought I should post this for everyone to see. It was discussed last week in regards to JewishHobbit and Hellstormer's match, and it's come up again in one of my matches. (JewishHobbit can attest that I made this ruling prior to this week, if there is any question about timing.)

Future versions of characters show nothing but future potential of a character. The readers should be made aware that that is all that can be determined from those events. Plus, when you get into alternate timelines, it is wise not to use events or descriptive powers when relaying your character to others. Many times, events in an alternate character's past make up for how they act in an alternate future. (Kind of like how we sometimes pick alternate versions of characters in CoM to give them more of an edge.)

Just as we cannot use current storylines when describing powers for our characters, alternate timelines cannot be used, either. (Remember, we are suppose to believe in an alternate timeline that the Punisher killed all of the superpowered individuals on Earth. This obviously couldn't be used, and it's not for us to discuss the validity of such alternate worlds.)

 

[Hellstormer]

I have a question regarding Mimic vs. Cable. Would Cal absorb Nate's original powers or his new tech ones. IMO I think he would absorb the original ones that stem from Nate's X-gene.

 

[wiegeabo]

He should be able to mimic Nate natural mutant abilities, even if they are shut off, because it's in his genetic code.

 

[Harlekin]

Okay, the rankings, based on Phaed's tallies from last round of matches:

1. Wiegeabo: 90.90%
2. Harlekin: 69.23%
3. JewishHobbit: 58.82%
4. Kytrigger: 57.14%
5. Hippy Fascist: 56.25%
6. Ahura Mazda: 50%
6. Midnight Ice: 50%
6. Zoken: 50%
7. Darthphere: 40%
7. Hellstormer: 40%
8. Phaedrus: 47.37%
9. Primemover: 16.67%

 

[primemover]

Okay, the rankings, based on Phaed's tallies from last round of matches:

1. Wiegeabo: 90.90%
2. Harlekin: 69.23%
3. JewishHobbit: 58.82%
4. Kytrigger: 57.14%
5. Hippy Fascist: 56.25%
6. Ahura Mazda: 50%
6. Midnight Ice: 50%
6. Zoken: 50%
7. Darthphere: 40%
7. Hellstormer: 40%
8. Phaedrus: 47.37%
9. Primemover: 16.67%

Wow, what the hell am I doing here.

 

[Harlekin]

Well, you had one hell of a bad luck by not knowing you had matches last week. It's also all about the finals anyway. Usually only one of your characters will get that far. The others are dead weight, pretty much, in the big picture. Besides, you still need to get through a few matches.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Also, when you joined up late, you didn't get the best pick of characters. And, you also haven't had that many characters fight, yet.

 

[wiegeabo]

You can blame Annoying Silence. He never put in a draft list, so he just got the leftover characters. And then you got his characters.

 

[primemover]

That is very apt, Annoying Silence being the cause of my pain . . memories.

The biggest pain was losing a cool character like The Black Knight to somebody he had no business going up against and had no chance other than a no-debate gimme, ie The Demolisher.

 

[hippy fascist]

I need 2 clarifications.

1. is juggy at full power?

2. how close does mimic have to be to someone to steal a power?

 

[wiegeabo]

Not sure about range, but once Mimic is in range, he copies powers instantly. But he needs to stay in range for some time (I want to say an hour) before he can keep the power permanently.

The range for the 616 Mimic was about 10 feet (although that might only be what it was for his first appearance, and changed later). No idea how this translates to eXiles Mimic since they're powers work differently. Especially since I think he was further than ten feet away from beings he temporarily copied powers from at times (like when he fought Jean by copying the Phoenix force).

 

[hippy fascist]

but it's a significantly shorter range than that of cable's telepathy

 

[wiegeabo]

As long as Mimic's range doesn't cover the whole facility.

 

[Hellstormer]

Not sure about range, but once Mimic is in range, he copies powers instantly. But he needs to stay in range for some time (I want to say an hour) before he can keep the power permanently.

The range for the 616 Mimic was about 10 feet (although that might only be what it was for his first appearance, and changed later). No idea how this translates to eXiles Mimic since they're powers work differently. Especially since I think he was further than ten feet away from beings he temporarily copied powers from at times (like when he fought Jean by copying the Phoenix force).

It takes less then an hour because he was able to absorb Deadpool's power while they were talking and his range has to be pretty decent because in the first couples issues he absorbed Phoenix's power from ground level while she was flying.

 

[Harlekin]

It originally took him more than an hour at least, since he went to a bar with Northstar just so he could absorb Northie's powers. They were in there for a while. Things might have changed after that Brood infection though. Range I'm not too sure on.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I need 2 clarifications.

1. is juggy at full power?

2. how close does mimic have to be to someone to steal a power?

Juggy is at full power in all his Villainous Glory.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

On a completely different matter, I went to see 300 this weekend. However, given I had the great idea of taking a girl I was dating with me, I left the theatre 45 minutes into the movie (basically the scene we see Xerxes for the first time).

I must say it was very artistic but I could not help feel a bit offended by the portrayal of the Persians. For one, I seriously enjoyed the Persian envoys which in history were Medes and Ionians (Greeks who had emigrated), looking nothing like Persians. In addition, Xerxes portrayed as a 7 foot pin cushion seemed a bit harsh but hey..that was Miller's story. Just one last point, Spartans went into war clothed in armour and were feared hoplites. They did not fight with just a loincloth.

In any case, the film seemed very well done eventhough I only saw the first part of it .

 

[Phaedrus45]

I wanted to touch on a few points in regards to this week's action and about next week, too.

*First, I am leaving for vacation in three days. (Luckily, late at night.) I will be able to post the new matches before my workday is done, and I will be able to (maybe, as I'll explain below) to post my opening debate to the one or two matches I have. Wiegeabo, if he's able, will take over in my absense, and he'll stop debating, open voting, close voting, get the new matches set up, and restart debating in my absence. (He can also delegate any duties he wants, if able. I know Hippy is glad to help out, probably, and can open and close debating and voting if necessary to meet the usual timelines.) If I can, I'll get to a computer and rebutt once or at least vote. Who knows what's available in Vegas, though.

*As this is Round 2, I notice debates are getting a lot more heated. (Also, most debates are being debated, unlike Round 1 where certain people fell out of the competition, and we didn't have to worry as much about our debates being rebutted.) I haven't seen too much that goes way over the line...yet...but, in some cases, we do get pretty close. (I'm also to blame...I know Harlekin and I are having a couple wingdingers this week...I try to go over what I type before I post; but, I'm sure Harl might think I come close to that line, too.) The one thing I ask is that once voting starts, take a deep breath and remember this really is a meaningless game that really means very little in regards to the rest of our lives. (In regards to Harl and myself, I know we both respect each other, and once all is said and done, everything is back to normal.)

*A point I clearly want to make is something that was discussed earlier in this season. As many of you know, some sites can easily be changed in what is said on their sites by many of us. Until this contest is over, participants should not change anything on any bio pages (even if it's just making a point). This happened once this week, and while I understand the debate got a little heated and it was done to prove a point, I don't want to see it happen again.

*I was hesitant to talk about this, especially considering the circumstances are closely tied with one of my matches this week; but, I will state what I believe and open it up for any discussion, if anyone wants to give their input.
-Wikipedia is a great resource to us; but, in the course of the two seasons of CoM, I've noticed some glaring mistakes in what is written. (For example, I believe in regards to my character, Gideon, this week, there is possibly a mistake in saying that he can take the abilities of battle armor.)
-I have noticed that two sources are much more valid in what they have to say: Marvel Handbooks and Marvel.com. (Marvel.com usually quotes the Handbooks; so, if you don't have the Handbooks available, many times the Powers and Abilities are just copied from them on the Marvel.com site.) When quoting sources for your character, you can quote anything you want; but, it should be noted some are more reliable than others.
-The best source to backup what is said about a character in any ability/powers bio is proof from the actual appearances of your character in various comics. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding," the pudding being actual Marvel comics. (Of course, everything can be brought into question, especially considering how many writers today seem to change how powerful a certain character is to make a point with the comic they are writing.)
-In the end, though, everything will be up to the voters. You can quote any and everything you like; it's up to the voters to say if they believe what you present.

*Finally, I asked JH his opinion on one of my characters yesterday. I have Belasco fighting Baron Mordo next week, and I'm beginning to wonder why we allowed certain characters, especially Belasco, into the contest. If he finds Belasco is too uber, I've allowed him to be removed from the contest. (Of course, we debated allowing Magic Users on the caliber of Dr. Strange into the contest at the beginning of this tournament; with prep-time, they all can be considered too uber.)

That's it; feel free to state anything you feel about any of the topics.

 

[primemover]

One thing to note in response to Phaed's paragraph on resources, scans from the actual comics are far and away the best resource, as Phaed said, but those scans in context are better. I notice sometimes I post a single page but without a setup things can't be understood, and many times characters are altered by some plot point, to be either stronger or weaker, so that needs to be noted.

For instance when The Wrecker knocked Thor on his ass, it's important to understand that Thor at the time was half-powered.

Also Phaed, can I pry my next week matches from you asap, if I have any. I am afraid of a 5 match week and I want as much time to get prepared as possible.