Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 17

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]489889[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]480835[/split]

 

[Marvolo]

A Moria which was smaller in space could still be bigger in ominous tension, particularly when more time is available to it. I think Moria in the book plays out a bit like the alien ship exploration in Alien. The most chilling moment is that sound- like a hammer, but not quite- gently tapping somewhere in the mine...

Agreed 100%. Tho I love Jackson's Moria there is more than one way to skin a cat. A smaller more claustrophobic Moria could work great.

But I think HBO of today could pull off a grand Moria or at least one shot like the Grand Hall shot in FOTR. Just look at GOT.

 

[jonathancrane]

HBO would probably not approach the property, as there are no sex scenes for them to exploit...which is sad, as they are the best American network for adapting the mythos.

 

[regwec]

They could spice it up easily: Tom Bombadil nailing Goldberry against Old Man Willow, Arwen pre-dressed before Elrond's feast, Galadriel taking a bath in her secret pool, Eowyn doing one of those "proposition via breasts" things that only really happen in movies...there is smut everywhere if you know where to look for it.

 

[Victarion]

They could make jokes about once elves go dwarf...

 

[regwec]

...you'd better finish it for us, I can't rhyme much other than "morph".

 

[Victarion]

...elves gonna need a wheelchair.

Edit: Oh wow, I think I just managed to give a dead guy an MI.

 

[jonathancrane]

They could spice it up easily: Tom Bombadil nailing Goldberry against Old Man Willow, Arwen pre-dressed before Elrond's feast, Galadriel taking a bath in her secret pool, Eowyn doing one of those "proposition via breasts" things that only really happen in movies...there is smut everywhere if you know where to look for it.

They could make jokes about once elves go dwarf...

I'm dying.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

They could make jokes about once elves go dwarf...

They never cease to barf?

 

[Victarion]

They never cease to barf?

I don't want to get banned.

 

[regwec]

"Once you've had Elf,
You'll want nothing else".

Kind of works...

"If you go Orc,
You won't walk..."

We had better stop now.

 

[Supernova]

Saw it last night really liked it except for certain parts. I kinda laughed at how for a town of fisherman they sure we're skilled warriors with swords.

 

[regwec]

Well, the gods are enjoying their little game with me.

I am fated to see this on Boxing Day, with my girlfriend and her family.

Big drink first.

 

[Marvolo]

I've been coming across this of late and was wondering if Gandalf did intend for them to go to the eagles?

I always assumed he simply meant "run". Is this just people over thinking it?

 

[Drz]

Saw it last night really liked it except for certain parts. I kinda laughed at how for a town of fisherman they sure we're skilled warriors with swords.

I liked how the women stood up and began fightning as well.

 

[regwec]

I always assumed he simply meant "run". Is this just people over thinking it?

Yes, whoever came up with that was joking, and I assume you are too.

 

[Boom]

Here's part one of my review:

Spoiler

The movie begins with the much-anticipated attack on Lake-town. I have gone back and forth on whether or not this scene would have been better served as the climax of the second film (my brother's first comment walking out of the theater was that is should have been). This scene was always going to be tricky, because it is the very definition of an anti-climax. So framing it as a finale or opening was always going to be a disadvantage. Obviously, if you end DoS with Smaug's death and Lake-town's destruction, you run the risk of audiences being left confused as to what could possibly be left to cover yet another film (a problem that still exists). So baiting people with DoS's cliffhanger ending makes sense given the three-film split. It was a safer gamble to assume that people would come back to see what happens with Smaug and Lake-town, and then you can simply go from there.

But again, the scene is an anticlimax, and opening a movie with it still leaves you with a bit of a disconnect. You're starting the movie with what is essentially the conclusion to the previous film's final arc a year after the fact. The fact that it comes and goes so quickly only aggravates the jarring effect.

Tauriel, the dwarves, and Bard's children (with the exception of Bain) are given nothing to do but paddle through the canals as they attempt to escape. Bare in mind that the only reason they were kept there in the first place was to further the contrived "dwelf" romance between Tauriel and Kili, and to stuff in another action scene at the tail-end of DoS (which only served to detract from the main plot with Bilbo). Seeing as how their involvement in Lake-town was essentially concluded in DoS in that regard, their presence in this opening scene doesn't amount to much of anything. They are just there.

I am happy that the windlance never came into play here. Whether Jackson completely forgot about it (which wouldn't surprise me), or Smaug destroyed it and I just didn't notice, rest assured that Bard does attempt to take the dragon down with his longbow. From an action point-of-view, I have no serious gripes with this scene initially. Nothing was too over-the-top or physics-defying. And there are some great POV shots of Smaug circling Lake-town like a bird of prey (the one from inside Bard's prison cell is delightfully eerie).

What I ultimately did end up having a problem with is how Bard takes Smaug down. He has one arrow left, but his bow is broken. Fortunately, Bain is able to reach him with the Black Lance (Sorry, Jackson. That is not an arrow). With the windlance out of the equation, Bard crafts a makeshift bow, using his son's shoulder as a means of balancing the lance. Why Jackson had to overcomplicate this, I do not understand. Apparently, a bowman taking down a fire-breathing dragon with bow and arrow alone isn't "epic" enough. This is the "cooler" alternative, apparently.

This scene also rounds out an issue I had with DoS. Bain tells the dwarves the story of how Girion had wounded the dragon during its attack on Dale, leaving a vulnerable chink in its armor. Whether anyone chooses to believe this or not (the dwarves don't), the precedent is set for Smaug to possibly have such a wound. Bilbo obviously goes on to discover that this is true. And during his last stand with Smaug in Lake-town, Bard notices it too.

Here's the issue. In the book, Bilbo is the first one to discover the dragon's weak spot. When he mentions this to the dwarves after-the-fact, the thrush sitting by overhears him. When Smaug attacks Lake-town, the thrush arrives and passes this information onto Bard (who can understand the thrush due to his ancestry). This is important for two reasons. One, it makes Bilbo a vital part of Bard's victory. Without Bilbo discovering that wound, it is likely that Bard would have been dead long before he would have found it for himself. Bard does not kill that dragon without Bilbo's help. Two, the involvement of the thrush is thematically significant to further highlight the importance of Bilbo's connection to nature in contrast to the dwarves' connection to materialism/industrialism. Nature vs materialism/industrialism is an ever-present theme throughout Tolkien's text, and this is especially true in The Hobbit.

In the film, Bilbo's involvement in Smaug's destruction is entirely non-existent. Once again, his role is minimized in favor of a secondary-turned-primary character. This is made worse by the fact that Jackson cuts away from Lake-town from time to time to show Bilbo and the dwarves watching the town's destruction from afar. In the book, Bilbo is indirectly responsible for Smaug's death. Here, he stands and watches helplessly.

The attack on Lake-town should be horrifying, which it is at times. But the effect is diminished by Jackson's penchant for forcing in comedic beats that only serve to confuse the tone of the scene. This scene should not be pretty. People are dying, their homes are being destroyed, and there is seemingly no escape from this unstoppable creature.

So when you keep cutting to the Master and Alfrid desperately trying to escape with a boat over-filled with gold, only to have the Master die from Smaug's body crushing him and his boat, it all comes across as poorly-timed and inappropriate.

Right from the start of the film, you get a sense that the excessive amount of CGI was going to be a problem in certain areas. Smaug himself was fine, but the CG Fire was pathetic, both by Weta and 2014 standards. At times, it looked and behaved more like orange smoke than living, tangible flames. It almost looked like something that you'd see from a video game console.

As a result, the tangibility and visceral feel of the destruction is diminished by the sheer artificiality of everything. It undermines the physical horror in a very disappointing way. It's too clean.

 

[Slushy]

I always assumed he simply meant "run".

Same. People whine about The Eagles too much (My only gripe was them coming to the rescue in Part 1 ruining the impact of their return in the BOTFA. Yes, I know that's what happened in the book, but it was still dumb.) They're noble creatures and wouldn't bother to involve themselves in petty human affairs.

 

[Quasimod0]

How do you watch movies, Boom? lol. Were you really critiquing the fire effects as you were watching it? Doesn't that take away from your enjoyment of the film if you are just picking apart every little bit as it comes onto the screen?

 

[Drz]

Well the green screen effects we're bad.

 

[Kane52630]

Saw it last night and I thought it ended on a high note, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[Marvolo]

I'm gonna try to go see this tomorrow if I'm feeling up to it.

 

[Boom]

How do you watch movies, Boom? lol. Were you really critiquing the fire effects as you were watching it? Doesn't that take away from your enjoyment of the film if you are just picking apart every little bit as it comes onto the screen?

If it looks awful to me, it looks awful. I believe that's simple enough.

 

[C. Lee]

Just got back from seeing it....loved it.