Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 15

[Vartha]

Someone remind me, why does Thorin no longer have Orcrist?

Taken by the elves when they were captured in Mirkwood

Legolas had it last fighting Blog

 

[Vartha]

I've never read Elric, but I just downloaded the e-book just now.

My set was destroyed back same flood that claimed my Comicbook Collection. Never got to read the comics

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My set was destroyed back same flood that claimed my Comicbook Collection. Never got to read the comics

This story still hits me right in the feels.

 

[Octoberist]

Legolas had it last fighting Blog

ahhh

 

[ThePhantasm]

"Blog," the Victor Domashev of Orcs.

 

[Victarion]

That War Boar is gonna rip a fart, I bet.

 

[ThePhantasm]

That War Boar is gonna rip a fart, I bet.

Its "in the spirit of Tolkien"

 

[Boom]

Some of the shots in the newest TV spots mesh with that list of spoilers posted a couple of days ago.

God help me.

Its "in the spirit of Tolkien"

Right. Because if we know anything, it's that the spirit of Tolkien isn't a sincere and thoughtful appreciation for language and ancient literature (and the themes and tropes that come with it). It's fart jokes, starfish haircuts, and Legolas Set Piece #98 .

 

[Silvermoon]

Empire's "Battle of the Five Armies" covers (spoiler tag for size/length)

Spoiler

Cover 1 of 5

Cover 2 of 5

Cover 3 of 5

Cover 4 of 5

Cover 5 of 5

 

[Doc Ock]

I finally watched the extended edition of Desolation of Smaug the other day, I liked it much much better than the theatrical edition. The additions were not severe but enough to make me appreciate it much more than I originally did. The appendices were great to watch as always, really brings me appreciation of the films. So glad Peter Jackson isn't the "it's like poetry, it's sort of, they rhyme" director.

 

[Quasimod0]

I'm ready to see, or hear, what new themes Howard Shore has cooked up for this finale.

 

[regwec]

Again, remind me: was Bard's sword Elven? It looks stylistically similar to Glamdring there.

I wish all the Elven swords had been straight-edged in these movies. The Elves' use of scimitar/naginata things really agitates against their derivation from northern European myth.

 

[Lord]

Among epic fantasy, how far would you rate Chronicles of Prydain? Been meaning to try those books for some time now.

 

[Quasimod0]

Maybe Bard gets it from the Elves?

 

[MrMaooz]

Damn, this movie is going to have some big trailers attached to it.

 

[Marvolo]

Again, remind me: was Bard's sword Elven? It looks stylistically similar to Glamdring there.

I wish all the Elven swords had been straight-edged in these movies. The Elves' use of scimitar/naginata things really agitates against their derivation from northern European myth.

You are entirely too hung up on that northern european thing. Tolkien wasn't trying to make Middle Earth exactly like Northern Europe and he didnt intend for Elves to be northern europeans. He wanted to create a myth and he drew inspiration from many folktales legends and myths, but that doesn't mean the Elves swords have to look like Viking swords. Middle earth is a fantasy universe and elves are magical. They can have some elegance to their weaponry.

About the covers tho, is Thranduil holding a double bladed sword? Thats...well Im sure it will look cool but its very "Yo elf lord I heard you liked swords so I stuck a sword on your sword"

 

[Silvermoon]

I love the Elvish blades and how they designed them for these movies, particularly Sting and Orcrist - gorgeous swords and I love the curves (they make me think of vines and ergo nature and ergo Elves ). If ever I were to get full scale replicas, those two would be it (but I probably won't ever since I don't have THAT kind of money, I'll just make due with my Sting, Orcrist & Glamdring letter openers that I got)

 

[regwec]

"Northern Europe" is not "viking". The swords of the Celtic La Tene period are extremely elegant, and would suit the Elves perfectly.

Tolkien gave the Elves two languages: one based on Welsh, the other on Finnish, so it is reasonably clear that he saw them as having a northern European cultural inspiration (this is borne out by him saying as much). It is clear that he didn't intend the Elves to use curved swords in general, because Egalmoth of Gondolin's curved sword is said to be exceptional.

 

[Marvolo]

"Northern Europe" is not "viking". The swords of the Celtic La Tene period are extremely elegant, and would suit the Elves perfectly.

Tolkien gave the Elves two languages: one based on Welsh, the other on Finnish, so it is reasonably clear that he saw them as having a northern European cultural inspiration (this is borne out by him saying as much). It is clear that he didn't intend the Elves to use curved swords in general, because Egalmoth of Gondolin's curved sword is said to be exceptional.

The Celts arent from northern Europe. They originated in mid-europe (Gaul) and southern areas of Europe. But yeah I know about the Finnish and Welsh influences on the languages. Tolkien took inspiration from Beowulf and other northern european and Germanic tales too. You're right tho I shouldn't have said Viking. Should have said Scandinavian.

And while yes La Tene is a gorgeous sword its entirely too close to the Rogan weaponry in the film. Back in the LOTR film appendices (I think it was in the FOTR set) Jackson mentions that he didnt want the elvish weaponry or their culture to resemble Rohan or other man cultures in the films. Howe and/or Lee came up with the flowing curved shapes because they resemble vines which is meant to call back to the elves and their connection to Arda. So they avoided square angular lines as much as possible when designing the elves and their culture for the films. At least there was logic behind the decision.

 

[regwec]

The Celtic culture spread throughout Europe; it's final bastions from the post-Roman period to the present were and are in the British Isles and Northwestern France.

 

[Boom]

Jackson and Co. were kind of all over the place with cultural influences, some of which are widely inconsistent with what inspired Tolkien. Most notably the "art nouveau" influence on the Elves and Dale looking very Mediterranean.

But then you've got Rohan which they absolutely nailed.

 

[Marvolo]

The Celtic culture spread throughout Europe; it's final bastions from the post-Roman period to the present were and are in the British Isles and Northwestern France.

Northwestern France is not Northern Europe, but the British Isles are. Thats my mistake. I never think of Britain as being European. Which is I admit weird considering the constant influence Europe in general had on the isles. Its just one of those things that always slips my mind.

 

[Marvolo]

Jackson and Co. were kind of all over the place with cultural influences, some of which are widely inconsistent with what inspired Tolkien. Most notably the "art nouveau" influence on the Elves and Dale looking very Mediterranean.

But then you've got Rohan which they absolutely nailed.

Well they nailed Edoras and the culture of Rohan but they dropped the ball on Rohan the country. We see one small thatch house village get burned and we see Edoras but the rest of Rohan appears to be empty uninhabited tundra. No agriculture or villages to speak of. Jackson did the same with Gondor. Minas Tirith was great. Gondor culture was pretty good. The country of Gondor...non existent.

 

[regwec]

Northwestern France is not Northern Europe, but the British Isles are. Thats my mistake. I never think of Britain as being European. Which is I admit weird considering the constant influence Europe in general had on the isles. Its just one of those things that always slips my mind.

This is getting beside the point, but people from Brittany would overwhelmingly describe themselves as Northern European.

I don't mind the art nouveau influence on the Elves so much, because I sense that Tolkien may have had something like it in mind. I doubt he saw them as white Samurai, however.

 

[Marvolo]

This is getting beside the point, but people from Brittany would overwhelmingly describe themselves as Northern European.

Which is fine, but Brittany isn't actually in Northern Europe regardless of Northern Europe's influence on Brittany. But Ill concede that it wasn't always a part of France so if you wanna connect it to Britain and Northern Europe I want argue the point.