Official UFC Thread - Part 4

[Hamill-Joker]

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012...et-to-join-ufc-strikeforce-to-hold-last-event

Strikeforce's last event will take place in January, then will fold and merge with UFC.

Ronda Rousey will lead Women's MMA into the UFC.

 

[CrypticOne]

Good news. Can't wait. I think by the end of next year, there will be an all women's TUF.

 

[B]

Good news

Good to hear woman's MMA is coming to the UFC. Past few woman's matches in Strikeforce have been better than some of the men's fights in the UFC/Strikeforce.

Hopefully with them coming into the UFC the higher publicity will get more woman that are already in kickboxing, boxing, mauy thai, judo etc a little more interested in trying out MMA.

 

[I'm Venom]

Belfort vs. Bisping official as the headliner of the Brazil card in January. Henderson part 2 I'd imagine.

 

[TheVileOne]

Miesha Tate also coming to the UFC .

 

[CrypticOne]

Belfort vs. Bisping official as the headliner of the Brazil card in January. Henderson part 2 I'd imagine.

Yeah. Doesn't look good for Bisping.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Good news

Good to hear woman's MMA is coming to the UFC. Past few woman's matches in Strikeforce have been better than some of the men's fights in the UFC/Strikeforce.

Hopefully with them coming into the UFC the higher publicity will get more woman that are already in kickboxing, boxing, mauy thai, judo etc a little more interested in trying out MMA.

Hopefully it leads to more diversity in Women's MMA as well.

 

[B]

Belfort vs. Bisping official as the headliner of the Brazil card in January. Henderson part 2 I'd imagine.

I think Bisping has come a long way since the Henderson KO. Against Hendo he looked uncharacteristically nervous. I think if they fought again Bisping would beat Henderson.

I'm gonna take Bisping, I think he'll do the clever thing & utilise how well rounded he is by trying to take Belfort down or at least faking shots to close the distance & do some clinch work to tire him out.

Should be a good fight. Belfort is a dangerous mofo though, if Bisping is hesitant or isn't fully focused he'll be knocked out in the 1st round.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Bisping will also beat Belfort.

Bisping is a smarter, more strategic fighter now than Belfort. He's also a better wrestler. I think Bisping might give up a round, but he will basically do to Belfort what he did to Brian Stann.

Belfort's a got great punching power but I think he's a bit weak mentally. And if the fight goes out of the first round he's toast. If the fight goes out of the first round, I guarantee you Bisping will win. Belfort's cardio and conditioning has never been that great.

After he almost armbarred Jones in that first round he had nothing else when Jones got out of it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Bisping over Belfort?

Good luck with that one guys. Bisping has never been a Top 10 fighter, in my opinion.

 

[I'm Venom]

Bisping lost a unanimous decision to Wanderlei Silva a couple of years ago. What would make any of you think he's going to beat Belfort, and on top of that, in Brazil?

 

[TheVileOne]

DoomsdayApex, I think to win 13 fights in the UFC you got to be pretty good.

I'm Venom, the Silva fight was a close fight. Also Belfort gasses if the fight gets out of the first round. He doesn't have good wrestling or takedown defense. Bisping has much better takedowns and wrestling than Belfort.

He doesn't have Belfort's pure punching or knockout power, but he's a better counter-striker and has better technique.

Dan Henderson easily out wrestled and bested Belfort. Bisping will have no trouble.

DoomsdayApex, didn't you say Machida would have no trouble with Jones wrestling since he trained with sumo wrestlers?

 

[I'm Venom]

That's my point. He lost a close fight to Wanderlei. I just have a hard time seeing him make it out of the first round with Vitor if he struggled three rounds with Wanderlei, who'd get straight tore up if he fought Vitor again.

He doesn't have better technique. Bisping will have trouble.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Bisping has beaten McDonald, Miller, Rivera, Akiyama, Kang, Leben, Day, and McCarthy. That's not impressive, in my opinion. Bisping's only legitimate win comes via Stann.

You claim his striking is more technical than Belfort's and yet Michael was KOed by Hendo and nearly TKOed by Wanderlei.

Like I said, good luck with that pick. Bisping's only chance to win is to take Belfort down and hold onto him. If Bisping decides to engage Belfort in the stand up department, he's a dead man, and he's aware of it. Belfort has the faster and more dynamic hands.

 

[E-Man]

I think that the Belfort vs. Bisping fight is interesting because you don't know about Vitor's gas tank. Vitor's a very crisp boxer that really puts those away that he hurts. Considering that Bisping is primarily a striker he plays into a strength that Belfort is better at, but if Vitor gets outworked he may not have much left to stop Bisping from doing his thing. Plus Bisping gets tagged in nearly every fight, and he gets away with it sometimes because he's got better movement than most. I think Vitor will win because he'll catch Bisping early and finish him, but it wouldn't shock me to see Bisping pull something out like he did against Stann if Vitor doesn't finish him early.

When guys fight Bisping they get him hurt and then swing for the same shot that got there, thus getting them gassed and worthless. They gotta pace themselves the way Chael and Wanderlei did. Wanderlei was patient, then turned it on late in the last two rounds. Chael stuck to a grappling gameplan and wore Bisping out. He was the aggressor so much that come the third round he took over.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'll concede to that. Belfort's gas tank is the only thing Bisping has going for him. Vitor is the superior striker and grappler. So we'll see if Michael can weather the early storm and establish his wrestling. First things first, he's gotta avoid Belfort's hands, and judging from what we've seen in the past, Bisping has trouble evading power shots. His head-movement tends to vanish, and then proceeds to take strikes on the button by either standing directly in front of his opponent or walks/runs/circles into his opponent's power.

 

[B]

Bisping over Belfort?

Good luck with that one guys. Bisping has never been a Top 10 fighter, in my opinion.

He is quite comfortably a Top 10 MW. Now as for a Top 10 on a P4P list, I'd agree he shouldn't feature, but he is undoubtedly a Top 10 MW, probably even Top 5.

Bisping lost a unanimous decision to Wanderlei Silva a couple of years ago. What would make any of you think he's going to beat Belfort, and on top of that, in Brazil?

It was 2 years ago & much like the Dan Henderson fight he wasn't his usual self, he actually tried to have Wanderlei's type of scrappy brawling fight for some reason. However when he keeps his cool & fights his own fight he should have quite comfortably picked Wanderlei apart with his superior footwork & more technical striking.

That being said even though he fought a stupid fight, it was a very close decision from what I can remember. From what I can recall of it & I'd need to go watch it again I believe there was 1 round for Bisping, 1 for Wanderlei & 1 round that could have been decided by as little a light jab. As I said though I'd need to go back & rewatch the whole fight.

I'll concede to that. Belfort's gas tank is the only thing Bisping has going for him. Vitor is the superior striker and grappler. So we'll see if Michael can weather the early storm and establish his wrestling. First things first, he's gotta avoid Belfort's hands, and judging from what we've seen in the past, Bisping has trouble evading power shots. His head-movement tends to vanish, and then proceeds to take strikes on the button by either standing directly in front of his opponent or walks/runs/circles into his opponent's power.

Disagree completely, how do you work out Belfort is a better grappler than Bisping?

Bisping has very strong grappling, he arguably outwrestled Chael Sonnen, well as far as I am concerned he did. Anytime he is taken down by anyone, which in itself it quite difficult given he has some excellent TDD, he is back to his feet pretty quickly.

Given that he is the equivalent of a BJJ Black Belt, I'd say if he wanted to stay on his back & work for submissions he could do so as well. The problem is nobody has been able to keep him down long enough for him to have to worry about that aspect of his game. I highly doubt Vitor Belfort will be able to take him down given that I'd say Bisping is the better wrestler of the 2.

What I anticipate Bisping doing is pretty much what Edgar does, uses takedown attempts to make opponent concerned about the takedown & exit with a short elbow or punch if he doesn't get them down. Either that or attempt to pin him against the cage to tire him a little & take some of his power away.

Don't get me wrong Belfort is capable of going in there & exploding & cracking him with 1 punch that could badly hurt him, however as Bisping showed against Stann, he has learnt from his mistakes from the Hendo fight.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

He is quite comfortably a Top 10 MW. Now as for a Top 10 on a P4P list, I'd agree he shouldn't feature, but he is undoubtedly a Top 10 MW, probably even Top 5.

It's the MW division. Miller can win two straight fights and find himself in the top ten shortly after. Bisping, to me, isn't top ten material. Never has been, never will be. That much was evident during his stint in the LHW division.

Disagree completely, how do you work out Belfort is a better grappler than Bisping?

Bisping has very strong grappling, he arguably outwrestled Chael Sonnen, well as far as I am concerned he did. Anytime he is taken down by anyone, which in itself it quite difficult given he has some excellent TDD, he is back to his feet pretty quickly.

Given that he is the equivalent of a BJJ Black Belt, I'd say if he wanted to stay on his back & work for submissions he could do so as well. The problem is nobody has been able to keep him down long enough for him to have to worry about that aspect of his game. I highly doubt Vitor Belfort will be able to take him down given that I'd say Bisping is the better wrestler of the 2.

What I anticipate Bisping doing is pretty much what Edgar does, uses takedown attempts to make opponent concerned about the takedown & exit with a short elbow or punch if he doesn't get them down. Either that or attempt to pin him against the cage to tire him a little & take some of his power away.

Don't get me wrong Belfort is capable of going in there & exploding & cracking him with 1 punch that could badly hurt him, however as Bisping showed against Stann, he has learnt from his mistakes from the Hendo fight.

No, he hasn't. Bisping has repeated the same mistakes over and over again. Kang, Rivera and Akiyama rocked Michael after he decided to forgo bobbling-and-weaving, and instead elect to block their strikes with his face. Sure, all three failed to hurt him further and/or finish Bisping but had he been facing a fighter like Belfort, he would have find himself staring up at the bright lights.

When fighting mid-tier talent, Bisping will find himself appearing like a title contender but, in reality, I wouldn't call him a legitimate challenger. I just don't see it. He folds every time he takes on a big name (Hendo, Wanderlei, Evans, Sonnen). Beating Belfort would be a step in the right direction. Easier said than done however. So you'll have to excuse my cynicalism over a TUF graduate who hasn't stepped it up, in my opinion.

Bisping's wrestling is most definitely better than Belfort's. I'll give him that much, but I'll need to see it employed against the stiffer competition before I can proclaim Bisping a top level grappler. He's fought cans and journeymen in the process of being ranked.

 

[CrypticOne]

People are crazy, if they think Bisping will win. The dude still hasn't learned to back up without putting his head straight back in the air. Bisping's weakness is also fast aggressive strikers. Whenever Belfort decides to put it on him, this fight will be over.

 

[I'm Venom]

It was 2 years ago & much like the Dan Henderson fight he wasn't his usual self, he actually tried to have Wanderlei's type of scrappy brawling fight for some reason. However when he keeps his cool & fights his own fight he should have quite comfortably picked Wanderlei apart with his superior footwork & more technical striking.

That being said even though he fought a stupid fight, it was a very close decision from what I can remember. From what I can recall of it & I'd need to go watch it again I believe there was 1 round for Bisping, 1 for Wanderlei & 1 round that could have been decided by as little a light jab. As I said though I'd need to go back & rewatch the whole fight.

You make it sound like it was 10 years ago and need to rewatch the fight. It was Wanderlei who actually tried to have Bisping's type of fight until the 3rd round, where he almost finished Bisping at the end. I gave the 1st round to Bisping, but definitely rounds 2 and 3 to Wanderlei.

 

[B]

It's the MW division. Miller can win two straight fights and find himself in the top ten shortly after. Bisping, to me, isn't top ten material. Never has been, never will be. That much was evident during his stint in the LHW division.

You'd be in the Top 10 in any division if you manage to string together a couple of wins.

You mean the stint that saw him barely lose to Rashad Evans?

No, he hasn't. Bisping has repeated the same mistakes over and over again. Kang, Rivera and Akiyama rocked Michael after he decided to forgo bobbling-and-weaving, and instead elect to block their strikes with his face. Sure, all three failed to hurt him further and/or finish Bisping but had he been facing a fighter like Belfort, he would have find himself staring up at the bright lights.

I'd have to go back to watch all 3 fights from start to finish, however the only time I've ever seen Bisping be hurt badly by a punch was when Henderson KO'd him. I've never seen any other fighter hit him with a punch that put him in a position to be finished, sure he might have been stunned here & there, but not enough to the point were he looked like 1 more punch could end him.

When fighting mid-tier talent, Bisping will find himself appearing like a title contender but, in reality, I wouldn't call him a legitimate challenger. I just don't see it. He folds every time he takes on a big name (Hendo, Wanderlei, Evans, Sonnen). Beating Belfort would be a step in the right direction. Easier said than done however. So you'll have to excuse my cynicalism over a TUF graduate who hasn't stepped it up, in my opinion.

Your logic is flawed, I'll give you Henderson & possibly Wanderlei. However against Sonnen he didn't look out of his depth in the slightest, heres a guy that had out grappled & to a degree outstruck Anderson Silva for 4 1/2 rounds as well as other people like Okami, Marquardt & Brian Stann & in my opinion Sonnen should have never got the win. The Evans fight I believe I had it just about a win for Evans, but again, it wasn't a poor performance to the same extent that the Henderson fight was a poor performance, he matched Evans grappling attempt for grappling attempt & was unlucky.

wrestling is most definitely better than Belfort's. I'll give him that much, but I'll need to see it employed against the stiffer competition before I can proclaim Bisping a top level grappler. He's fought cans and journeymen in the process of being ranked.

Ironic, because arguably Belfort's done exactly the same thing.

On his return to the UFC he fought Franklin at catchweight of 195lbs, fair enough I'll overlook the weight but it was long after Franklin was somewhat of a force in the MW division, then he was KO'd in 1 round by Anderson Silva 2 years later, then he fought Akiyama who was on a 2 fight losing streak, one of which was to Bisping, then he fought Anthony Johnson in his UFC MW debut.. or would have been his MW debut had he made weight, then of course putting on a good performance against Jones even in defeat.. however it was at 205. I'm struggling to see how Vitor should be considered a higher ranked MW than Bisping.

 

[B]

You make it sound like it was 10 years ago and need to rewatch the fight. It was Wanderlei who actually tried to have Bisping's type of fight until the 3rd round, where he almost finished Bisping at the end. I gave the 1st round to Bisping, but definitely rounds 2 and 3 to Wanderlei.

It was 2 years ago & given Bisping has fought something like 6 or 7 times since then, you'll forgive me if a 2 year old fight isn't fresh in my memory.

I definitely don't remember Bisping nearly being finished near the end of the fight so I'll have to rewatch the fight. From what I could remember though I'd gave it 1 round each with 1 round being a coin flip.

 

[I'm Venom]

Get back to me when Bisping gets a top 5 win. Vitor also decisively beat Akiyama, the same Akiyama who Bisping struggled with.

 

[B]

Get back to me when Bisping gets a top 5 win. Vitor also decisively beat Akiyama, the same Akiyama who Bisping struggled with.

How can he have struggled against someone he beat by unanimous decision? LOL

It's also irrelevant, Akiyama was still on a 2 fight losing streak & therefore couldn't be considered a Top 5, arguably even 10 MW.

I could tell you exactly the same thing, name me one person Belfort has beat that has been a Top 5 MW. A win that would keep him in the Top 5 or catapult him to a title shot.

Brian Stann is arguably a Top 5 MW, he is certainly more relevant to the title picture than Anthony Johnson & Akiyama.. so there you go. Brian Stann.

 

[I'm Venom]

How can he have struggled against someone he beat by unanimous decision? LOL

It's also irrelevant, Akiyama was still on a 2 fight losing streak & therefore couldn't be considered a Top 5, arguably even 10 MW.

I could tell you exactly the same thing, name me one person Belfort has beat that has been a Top 5 MW. A win that would keep him in the Top 5 or catapult him to a title shot.

Brian Stann is arguably a Top 5 MW, he is certainly more relevant to the title picture than Anthony Johnson & Akiyama.. so there you go. Brian Stann.

Since 2007, he's had seven completely one-sided fights (five knockouts and one submission) and two losses to Silva and Jones. Belfort has been wrecking people rather easily. Not sure what exactly you're looking for over the past five years.