Official UFC Thread - Part 6

[Loki882]

I kind of like to see that Mayweather thing (well part of me anyway) just to see her humiliate him (the guy annoys me to no end).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I kind of like to see that Mayweather thing (well part of me anyway) just to see her humiliate him (the guy annoys me to no end).

And if Mayweather hurt her? Because if he hit her, he would. Badly. Considering his history and the no lose situation here, it is a horrible idea.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

True, but at least women who are legitimate wrestlers and kickboxers are coming over now. They just gotta develop into MMA fighters. Trust me, we're in a better place. I give it another five years before we see more depth but WMMA is no longer a joke.

Trust me? t:

I watch, I enjoy it. But there is a clear skill and athleticism gap overall. A weak UFC male division has 3-4 guys. The deep ones, have 10 or more.

And Cyborg is afraid of giving her urine sample to the NSC.

One of her former teammates stated that she's an avid user. I wouldn't be surprised if Cyborg never came to the UFC.

I have no doubt she is. Just like the majority of MMA fighters.

Cyborg is a steroid using cheat. Why should anybody give her a fight. If she wasn't juicing she probably wouldn't have even beaten Carano. Looking at that fight Carano was obviously the more skilled fighter Cyborg just overwhelmed her with her juiced up strength and stamina.

So is the majority of UFC and Pride legends. And yet, they fought and continue to fight. The "best fighter in the world" has weird T-levels. Will you never watch Jon Jones again?

Carano lost because, while she was good, she wasn't a fighter.

Rousey is the champ, Cyborg comes to her weight class, no catch and she doesnt come to her.

So drain one of them? That is pointless if the question is who is better.

 

[superion]

Trust me? t:

I watch, I enjoy it. But there is a clear skill and athleticism gap overall. A weak UFC male division has 3-4 guys. The deep ones, have 10 or more.


I have no doubt she is. Just like the majority of MMA fighters.


So is the majority of UFC and Pride legends. And yet, they fought and continue to fight. The "best fighter in the world" has weird T-levels. Will you never watch Jon Jones again?

Carano lost because, while she was good, she wasn't a fighter.

So drain one of them? That is pointless if the question is who is better.

If the majority of UFC and Pride Legends are doping that at least makes it a even playing field. If Cyborg was doping which she probably was when she fought Carano and Carano was not than it was a totally ******** result. Carano did pretty well for a while there against Cyborg. I would like to see how Cyborg would do in a rematch against Carano without the juice.

Same with Rousey, if she is not doping she doesn't deserve to lose her perfect record against a cheat.

 

[NicoSuave]

Rousimar Palhares has been stripped of his WSOF Welterweight Championship and suspended indefinitely, after trying to rip Jake Shields eyes and shoulder out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If the majority of UFC and Pride Legends are doping that at least makes it a even playing field. If Cyborg was doping which she probably was when she fought Carano and Carano was not than it was a totally ******** result. Carano did pretty well for a while there against Cyborg. I would like to see how Cyborg would do in a rematch against Carano without the juice.

Same with Rousey, if she is not doping she doesn't deserve to lose her perfect record against a cheat.

Cyborg is too rough, to tough for Carano. I knew what happened was always going to happen. Now is that do to PEDs? Probably. I don't expect her to fight Rousey in the near future. Too much of a risk for her. They will probably wait until Cyborg is properly old for a fighter.

And how do you know Ronda isn't cheating? I remember when it was impossible for Anderson to be cheating. For Jon Fitch. The problem with sport is that it is far easier to cheat at the highest levels, then it is to get caught. I have become jaded about PEDs. I believe everyone is using at this point. The physical signs aren't as obvious as one would be led to believe.

 

[E-Man]

I'm glad that World Series of Fighting stripped Rousimar Palhares of the welterweight belt and suspended him. At this point there isn't much else you can do with a guy who keeps pulling this **** time and time again. What's sad is that he did something on an all time great level in submitting a guy as good on the ground as Shields, but it gets overshadowed by how he yet again held on to a sub longer than he should. This not to mention the intentional eye raking that he did on top of that. On a night where he could put one of the biggest feathers in the cap of all time welterweights he does something that takes him away from the game again. We should be seeing him fight big names in the UFC like Woodley, Condit, etc. at 170, but instead the dude just wouldn't learn before, and now he isn't learning again.

 

[Slushy]

Heading into the fight, I joked that Rousey would win in 30 seconds or less. I was off by 4!

 

[BattleCat]

I kind of like to see that Mayweather thing (well part of me anyway) just to see her humiliate him (the guy annoys me to no end).

Humiliate him in what? The octagon or the ring? If the octagon, why not the ring instead? Honestly, I'd rather see her fight jorina baars. I believe she'd wreck Ronda in a kickboxing match.

 

[Batmannerism]

Humiliate him in what? The octagon or the ring? If the octagon, why not the ring instead? Honestly, I'd rather see her fight jorina baars. I believe she'd wreck Ronda in a kickboxing match.

Maybe, but in the octagon Ronda would leave her short a couple of working limbs.

Ronda deserves her props. When the day comes that Cyborg gives up the roids and actually steps into the ring with Ronda....and gets wiped out, will people finally stop saying "Oh yeah but ______ would beat Ronda." Probably not, but at least some of them will be a little bit quieter.

Give Ronda her props, she's #1 for a reason.

 

[I'm Venom]

Aldo/McGregor and Rockhold/Weidman main/co-main UFC 194 on December 12th. Sounds awesome but I'm pretty sure it won't happen that way. My prediction is that Aldo and/or Weidman pulls out.

Cerrone vs. Dos Anjos II confirmed for UFC on FOX 17 at the end of December. They could've put that on UFC 194...

 

[HeyZeus]

Give Ronda her props, she's #1 for a reason.

Yeah, Dana White and the UFC keep feeding her cans to crush.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yeah, Dana White and the UFC keep feeding her cans to crush.

It's no different than what they did for Anderson Silva.

 

[HeyZeus]

It's no different than what they did for Anderson Silva.

It's totally different. Silva didn't fight dudes who had day jobs or guys who joined MMA gyms to originally get in shape.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

It's totally different. Silva didn't fight dudes who had day jobs or guys who joined MMA gyms to originally get in shape.

Uhhh, no it's not... Leites, Lutter and Cote had 'day' jobs. Call it whatever the hell you won't but The UFC padded Silva's record too.

 

[E-Man]

Uhhh, no it's not... Leites, Lutter and Cote had 'day' jobs. Call it whatever the hell you won't but The UFC padded Silva's record too.

How could they be padding Silva's record with Lutter when he won the show to get the title shot before Anderson was even champ? Plus Leites was a top ten guy coming off of a win over Marquardt, and all other options were cleaned out like Rich, Hendo, and Marquardt who just lost to Leites? Then Cote was a replacement for Okami who broke his hand. Who else were they supposed to get for Anderson to fight when he the other top fighters had fights planned and/or lost to Anderson already? If this was James Irvin you'd have a point, but he's still nowhere near as bad as Ronda's competition, and that was on six weeks notice at a weight class Anderson never fought before. Even then Anderson fought and beat everyone there is to beat except Weidman, and that came at the end of a reign for nearly 7 years and in his late 30s. Quality wins for Weidman, but not even close to something that should be used to discredit the quality of Anderson's title run.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

How could they be padding Silva's record with Lutter when he won the show to get the title shot before Anderson was even champ? Plus Leites was a top ten guy coming off of a win over Marquardt, and all other options were cleaned out like Rich, Hendo, and Marquardt who just lost to Leites? Then Cote was a replacement for Okami who broke his hand. Who else were they supposed to get for Anderson to fight when he the other top fighters had fights planned and/or lost to Anderson already? If this was James Irvin you'd have a point, but he's still nowhere near as bad as Ronda's competition, and that was on six weeks notice at a weight class Anderson never fought before. Even then Anderson fought and beat everyone there is to beat except Weidman, and that came at the end of a reign for nearly 7 years and in his late 30s. Quality wins for Weidman, but not even close to something that should be used to discredit the quality of Anderson's title run.

- Lutter was a chump. I don't want to hear it. He washed out of the UFC soon after getting his ass handed to him. Travis was never on the same stratosphere as Silva. Winning TUF means diddy squat to me. That's like trying to justify a win over Nover.

- So what if Leites had a win over Marquardt? He had no stand up and his takedown ability was average. On top of it all, Thales has no KO power whatsoever. He had zero chance of beating Silva. This was a match-up nightmare right from the start.

- My point is that the middleweight division has been one of the most shallow divisions in the sport for a long, long time, and the UFC did a fantastic job in hyping up every opponent Anderson faced. Outside the very few like Henderson, nobody in that division had the skill set to beat Silva. Of course, it didn't help that the UFC gave Silva more favorable matches than they did for GSP or Penn or Jones or etc.

 

[TheVileOne]

Thing is, the toughest fights for Silva Silva were big strong wrestlers. Other than Weidman, he faced those dudes and he finished them. Dan Henderson was an Olympic wrestler with knockout power, who is MMA's only double champion. Chael Sonnen, another big strong wrestler.

By the time he got to Weidman, he had already been on top for a long time. The problem was that when Silva was on top, it was like Rousey right now. There seems to be a huge gap between the champion and the contenders. IMHO, no one is unbeatable. Just like BJ Penn at lightweight. Just like Silva at middleweight. Matt Hughes at welterweight. Fedor at heavyweight. Anything can happen in a fight.

 

[E-Man]

- Lutter was a chump. I don't want to hear it. He washed out of the UFC soon after getting his ass handed to him. Travis was never on the same stratosphere as Silva. Winning TUF means diddy squat to me. That's like trying to justify a win over Nover.

- So what if Leites had a win over Marquardt? He had no stand up and his takedown ability was average. On top of it all, Thales has no KO power whatsoever. He had zero chance of beating Silva. This was a match-up nightmare right from the start.

- My point is that the middleweight division has been one of the most shallow divisions in the sport for a long, long time, and the UFC did a fantastic job in hyping up every opponent Anderson faced. Outside the very few like Henderson, nobody in that division had the skill set to beat Silva. Of course, it didn't help that the UFC gave Silva more favorable matches than they did for GSP or Penn or Jones or etc.

-You said that the UFC used Lutter to pad Anderson's record, and my retort was that the guy was picked as the next title contender before Anderson was even champ. With that being the case how could they be padding the guy's record when they weren't even sure who he was going to fight in the first place?

-Nearly everything is a matchup nightmare against a guy like Silva. The guy was unstoppable for years. That's like saying that Fedor beating Cro Cop isn't a big deal because Cro Cop's ground game was weak. It's not Fedor's fault that Cro Cop was a one dimensional striker, and the fact that Fedor could exploit it played better to Fedor's prestige than anything else. It's the same with Leites. The guy might not have had great KO power, but he had a really good ground game and he was the only top ten guy in the UFC that Silva hadn't fought back then. There aren't going to be a ton of fighters out there with the skills to beat Anderson, and the one guy that finally did benefited a lot from Anderson severely disrespecting him and losing a ton of focus. Weidman was great enough to capitalize on that moment, but not many are. That's why Anderson has the legacy that he does.

-The middleweight division was not that shallow. Also if that's the case then Anderson straight outclassing Forrest the way he did showed his skill because he did something Rampage and Shogun couldn't do. Even then Anderson beat perennial top middleweights that have had good success in other weight classes like Hendo, Franklin, Maia, Marquardt, Vitor, and Sonnen. Even going back before his UFC run guys like Newton, Horn, and Mach were good at two weight classes as well.

It's funny you keep talking about how the UFC gave Anderson favorable matchups. Not only was the he the best fighter in the game, or at least one of them if you're ******** that it wasn't considered to be Fedor, so he was going to always be the favorite. But there is no one reasonable that you could bring up to say that the he should have fought during his title reign. I'd love to hear who you think he should have been fighting besides some of the guys you don't see as being great on his resume. Hendo again who left the UFC instead of fighting Nate for a title shot? Nate a second time when he lost to Leites and Okami for contender spots? Okami who broke his hand, so Cote filled in as a replacement? Weidman who hadn't had enough fights, and he eventually fought one he put together a good string of wins? Who are these opponents that Anderson didn't fight that he should have? You can bring up GSP, but he's in another weight class, and he had his own weight class to clean out. Bones would have been great after Weidman, but that's another weight class in addition to Anderson losing and then breaking his leg. Shields, Rockhold, and Jacare that weren't even in the UFC?

The bottom line is that there isn't anyone you could have reasonably expected Anderson to fight that he didn't. Once the UFC and Pride merged he fought everyone in the top ten except Bisping who never could win a contender match to challenge him in the first place. You can say that the middleweight division is weak as a fall back again, but it can't be that weak considering that Anderson, Hendo, Franklin, Marquardt, and Maia all have top ten wins in other weight classes besides middleweight.

 

[Sakuraba]

I saw where Dana White blamed the main event booing last night on "drunk dummies". He knows all too well that Johnson is no draw

 

[Docker2.0]

It kills me when people just want to see blood and brains splattered all over the match with no skill. DJ has a style that not everyone likes but he is brilliant inside the ring. He made Dodson look average. He has mastered a certain craft that casual fans don't seem to appreciate. Real MMA fans appreciate the fighter he is.

 

[Sakuraba]

When you start talking about real fans, that's a slippery slope. I've been watching shoot-style fights off and on since UWFi was blurring the lines back in the mid 90's, but I'll be the first to tell you that Akira Maeda was boring despite having all the theatrics of being a pro wrestler and Karelin was boring despite being the best Greco Roman wrestler in history. Technically it was there, but the product didn't deliver

I mean, what is a real MMA fan? By Zuffa standards, people willing to spend thousands of dollars on floor seats and buy overpriced PPVs would be considered the real fans. So there is an issue when Johnson headlines a card and tickets have to be given away and the buy-rates are historically low for a post-TUF business model. He just isn't an appealing fighter in or out of the cage. When you main event Montreal, one of the hottest fight sport towns with some of the best fans, and they walk out of your world championship fight... that's an issue. He's just bland bland bland.

Floyd Mayweather fights a very technical style based on shoulder rolls and counter punch pot-shotting. You can appreciate the mastery of that style of pugilism while also lamenting the lack of thrill and predictability of the fight. Of course, Floyd knows how to sell a fight and make himself the biggest heel in the world. People will pay just in the off chance that he does lose. Because they want to see it happen live.

I think the danger here is some of language being tossed around about fans not liking Johnson being "uneducated fools", "drunk dummies", and "I don't give a **** what (fans) are doing". That's kind of foolish talk. That kind of self-hate, and ridiculing your own fan base is the kind of thing that can become a unhealthy trend. Obviously you can't get rid of Johnson, but they need to find an angle with that guy, a marketing approach that compensates for the in-cage product.

 

[E-Man]

With Mighty Mouse they just have to let him keep winning, and at some point people will jump on the bandwagon. It was the same with Frankie Edgar. A lot of idiots, not just pissed off B.J. Penn fans, would just disrespect him, but after a while people started to come around and become fans. He's not the biggest star in the world, but Edgar definitely is a well liked name now after all the hating.

Mighty Mouse is close to tying and breaking Anderson's record with his main contenders being guys he already beat or he outmatches by a ton. If he gets there some people will just have no choice but to give him his props, and with guys like Benavidez and Dodson knocking out others it will just make him look better because those guys are incredibly skilled. At some point people will just get tired of finding reasons to hate the guy, and the fans who like him will still stick around and cheer his success. He'll also get a lot of love if he moves up and takes on Dillashaw in a super fight, or someone like Faber at bantamweight.

Basically I think that Mighty Mouse will outlive the people that hate him.

 

[Docker2.0]

When you start talking about real fans, that's a slippery slope. I've been watching shoot-style fights off and on since UWFi was blurring the lines back in the mid 90's, but I'll be the first to tell you that Akira Maeda was boring despite having all the theatrics of being a pro wrestler and Karelin was boring despite being the best Greco Roman wrestler in history. Technically it was there, but the product didn't deliver

I mean, what is a real MMA fan? By Zuffa standards, people willing to spend thousands of dollars on floor seats and buy overpriced PPVs would be considered the real fans. So there is an issue when Johnson headlines a card and tickets have to be given away and the buy-rates are historically low for a post-TUF business model. He just isn't an appealing fighter in or out of the cage. When you main event Montreal, one of the hottest fight sport towns with some of the best fans, and they walk out of your world championship fight... that's an issue. He's just bland bland bland.

Floyd Mayweather fights a very technical style based on shoulder rolls and counter punch pot-shotting. You can appreciate the mastery of that style of pugilism while also lamenting the lack of thrill and predictability of the fight. Of course, Floyd knows how to sell a fight and make himself the biggest heel in the world. People will pay just in the off chance that he does lose. Because they want to see it happen live.

I think the danger here is some of language being tossed around about fans not liking Johnson being "uneducated fools", "drunk dummies", and "I don't give a **** what (fans) are doing". That's kind of foolish talk. That kind of self-hate, and ridiculing your own fan base is the kind of thing that can become a unhealthy trend. Obviously you can't get rid of Johnson, but they need to find an angle with that guy, a marketing approach that compensates for the in-cage product.

I get what you are saying but like Mayweather, DJ fights a very unique style. I find him very entertaining the way he causes people to miss like crazy and is an accurate striker himself. He is dominating this division and it's not even close. I honestly thought Dodson would improve on the last fight but DJ proved me wrong. Again his style is unique. I like all styles but to see dudes go in there and slug it out like animals in a cage is something I don't want to see every fight because there is no skill involved. Heck if Mcgregor or the Diaz guys didn't talk as much, would he be entertaining? I guess what you are basically saying is that DJ needs to become Floyd because of his boring style and personality. Honestly that exactly why Floyd became who he is and it worked brilliantly.

 

[Sakuraba]

See, I think you guys have it wrong. No one is looking for reasons to dislike Johnson. As I said, you won't find a more dedicated crowd than a Montreal PPV crowd, and they walked out. The jury is in that he is just not a fun fighter to watch, and he can't hard sell a fight.

The Edgar comparison, ehh, I mean Edgar got a little bit of the rub from Penn as a draw. It wasn't like de la Hoya giving Floyd the rub, where Floyd went from fighting for free on Boxing After Dark to making $30 million every fight, but Edgar was a decent draw. He wasn't a box office bomb like Johnson. Edgar also had a couple of classics with Gray Maynard that included him coming back from the dead twice. That kind of theatre will endure you to the fans.

I also think the point is being missed here. It's not that he's not getting props or people think he sucks as a fighter. They just don't want to watch him fight. That's the issue. The silent majority of fandom that doesn't partake in the online MMA community have tuned him out.