Official UFC Thread - Part 6

[Batmannerism]

While I want to see a rematch, badly (I make no apologies for being an RR fan) I guess I would like to see Holly take on Miesha or Cat, just to see if she's a real champ or Buster Douglas.
(let me be clear, the comparison with Buster Douglas is not an insult, because regardless of the circumstances that came after, James Douglas KO'd Iron Mike Tyson, something nobody had been able to do up to that point. The Douglas reference is more about only holding the championship for a brief time - and losing on her first defence).

At the same time a rematch is necessary to see if Ronda can regain her glory, or will go the way of Mike Tyson.

No disrespect to Holly, she fought a great fight and clearly prepared well for Ronda's game, but it's easy to talk her up and Ronda down after this kind of win.

I think Holly could definitely out-strike Tate (although Tate's wrestling might be a big factor, if she can prevent Holly from controlling the distance). If Tate could defeat Holm, then I know Ronda could easily reclaim the belt - and I'd much rather see her avenge the loss against Holm.

Again, the GSP/Serra series was a turning point in GSP's career but also a great moment in UFC history. While I love Ronda to bits, her losing is good for the sport (like I said before, having a champ who's too dominant actually kills the competition underneath them).

However, will Ronda start showing a bit more humility (as GSP did after the defeat - in fact GSP's sportsmanship is why he's my all time favourite UFC fighter, with Randy Couture a close second, now he was all class.

Looking forward to more developments on this front ! Cheers.

 

[Wildcard]

Part of me is still surprised Ronda lost while another part of me really isn't. I love, her, I'm a big fan, but there are two main things I think were her undoing.

One, it seems like she's been juggling too much considering she's trying to really make a landing in the acting world and when you're a fighter, it's a little dangerous to try to keep so much on your plate. The second thing would be her arrogance. Again, I love Ronda & I'll likely always be a fan, but lately her ego has grown enormous. Here she was against an actually credible fighter & likely thought it'd be an effortless fight but as we see that wasn't the case because she was outmaneuvered the entire bout.

She was pretty sloppy the entire fight while Holm was spot on, every move was precise and did damage. If there's a rematch, either Ronda will have been humbled enough by this experience to come back dominant or she's going to hit that mat even harder the next time around.

My $0.02, anyway.

 

[Batmannerism]

Part of me is still surprised Ronda lost while another part of me really isn't. I love, her, I'm a big fan, but there are two main things I think were her undoing.

One, it seems like she's been juggling too much considering she's trying to really make a landing in the acting world and when you're a fighter, it's a little dangerous to try to keep so much on your plate. The second thing would be her arrogance. Again, I love Ronda & I'll likely always be a fan, but lately her ego has grown enormous. Here she was against an actually credible fighter & likely thought it'd be an effortless fight but as we see that wasn't the case because she was outmaneuvered the entire bout.

She was pretty sloppy the entire fight while Holm was spot on, every move was precise and did damage. If there's a rematch, either Ronda will have been humbled enough by this experience to come back dominant or she's going to hit that mat even harder the next time around.

My $0.02, anyway.

Given how emphatic the outcome was, you're probably not far off - if not spot on. I hope Ronda takes a leaf from GSP's page (after the Serra fight) and come back with some humility.

 

[Iceman]

How good is this woman who beat Ronda Rousey? If they fought again do you guys think it would be the same outcome?

 

[Golgo-13]

Rhonda was too aggressive. She kept bull charging Holm trying to push her into the cage, and Holm just kept curling out. Rhonda's bull charging also help Holm land those 'Bone Jones' elbows and straight punches....

 

[DarkKnight]

Its funny actually. A bunch of friends from work (all male such as myself) were trash talking Ronda Rousey and saying crazy stuff about how overrated she was and this and that and the other. I looked at them all and laughed and said "I challenge any one of you to go 12-0 in the Womens UFC Division" None of them had much to say after that!
I like Ronda, her loss is wrapped up in a simple statement. You can't win them all!

 

[jmc]

While I want to see a rematch, badly (I make no apologies for being an RR fan) I guess I would like to see Holly take on Miesha or Cat, just to see if she's a real champ or Buster Douglas.
(let me be clear, the comparison with Buster Douglas is not an insult, because regardless of the circumstances that came after, James Douglas KO'd Iron Mike Tyson, something nobody had been able to do up to that point. The Douglas reference is more about only holding the championship for a brief time - and losing on her first defence).

At the same time a rematch is necessary to see if Ronda can regain her glory, or will go the way of Mike Tyson.

No disrespect to Holly, she fought a great fight and clearly prepared well for Ronda's game, but it's easy to talk her up and Ronda down after this kind of win.

I think Holly could definitely out-strike Tate (although Tate's wrestling might be a big factor, if she can prevent Holly from controlling the distance). If Tate could defeat Holm, then I know Ronda could easily reclaim the belt - and I'd much rather see her avenge the loss against Holm.

Again, the GSP/Serra series was a turning point in GSP's career but also a great moment in UFC history. While I love Ronda to bits, her losing is good for the sport (like I said before, having a champ who's too dominant actually kills the competition underneath them).

However, will Ronda start showing a bit more humility (as GSP did after the defeat - in fact GSP's sportsmanship is why he's my all time favourite UFC fighter, with Randy Couture a close second, now he was all class.

Looking forward to more developments on this front ! Cheers.

I really think the Douglas comparison is a bit unfair as to just how dominant Holm was. I think if anything this showed just how many holes there are in Rousey's game. She was dominant against others of a similar limited skill set, but she was made to look like a complete novice with this match. From what I remember I don't recall Douglas making Tyson look like that.

 

[Batmannerism]

I really think the Douglas comparison is a bit unfair as to just how dominant Holm was. I think if anything this showed just how many holes there are in Rousey's game. She was dominant against others of a similar limited skill set, but she was made to look like a complete novice with this match. From what I remember I don't recall Douglas making Tyson look like that.

Have a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r98snTvjrvA

when the KO comes, Tyson's not looking too flash.

I'll admit that Holm's KO is more emphatic ( although MMA is a different game), but Douglas makes Tyson look pretty bad. And, I will agree that Holm made Ronda look even more terrible. I don't want to diminish Holm's win in any way, it was a superb performance against an opponent who had looked unbeatable (against everyone else). The Buster Douglas comparison is mostly about a rank underdog dethroning a seemingly invincible champ, in those terms I still think it's a fair comparison.

In terms of what's "unfair"though , I think it's unfair to suggest that Rousey's game is full of holes -because she's managed to rack up a 12-1 record and defend her title 6 times. If her overall game was so "holy" (yeah, okay, bad pun) I suspect she wouldn't have done so well.

On a related note I think "limited skill set" is also somewhat unfair, as some of those opponents were very accomplished within their respective backgrounds ( Zingano was an all-american wrestler, Sara McMann was an olympic wrestling medalist and the other ladies all had a balance of grappling and striking training).

My point of view on the fight is that Holm fought brilliantly, and Ronda (for whatever reason) fought badly, perhaps even stupidly (she let Holm utilise her striking expertise, and Holm is definitely the best striker she's fought - while not using any tactics that would have negated that advantage).

Is it that Ronda's game is full of holes or she just fought badly on the night?
Personally, I think it's more of the latter - because that happens to everyone sooner or later - hence the Buster Douglas comparison

A rematch will be the best indicator of whether Ronda's game is indeed full of holes, or it was a matter of her having an off night. If Holm can defeat her again, well then I'll have to admit that Ronda's got some serious weaknesses - but until then, I'm going to go with it being a (very) bad day at the office (something that's happened to other UFC champions ).

Time will tell I suppose !

And on this one

How good is this woman who beat Ronda Rousey? If they fought again do you guys think it would be the same outcome?

Holm is good, no denying that - and if it comes to a stand-up striking fight, she would definitely win the rematch. BUT, I don't think it will go that way, and I'm going to say that Rousey will most likely win a rematch via submission.
If Ronda can find a way to deal with Holm's striking advantage, and turn the fight into a grappling/wrestling match she'll win - on the flip side I'm not sure Holm could counter Rousey's skills in a prolonged ground fight.

Either way, I'm looking forward to the rematch, because this kind of drama is what makes UFC great entertainment.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Got to admit, when Rousey managed to get a hold of Holm [3 times, if memory serves] I basically thought it was a foregone conclusion that she'd be submitted yet she not only managed to get out on those occasions but also managed to take Rousey down too.

So when I read people saying stuff like 'Rousey should have stuck to her strength and took Holm to the mat and submitted her' and 'She'll do it in the re-match and submit Holm' I kind of think, 'I think you're doing Holm's grappling/defense a bit of a disservice there - did you not see the fight?'.

 

[B]

But we saw that there were times when she did try to make it a grappling match, and Holm got out of it each time (hell, she even managed to take Rousey down at one point)?

Not really, I mean for a grappler to be fighting a striker, the grappler in most cases only uses strikes to set up a double leg, trip or clinch attempt. Rousey I think only actively went to grapple with her after doing so once & she got Holm down. I think there was 1 other grappling exchange in the bout & that only came about after the 2 both tagged each other at once & stunned each other ending up awkwardly close. Holm actually tripping Rousey on that occassion.

Not ignorance, arrogance.

Probably a bit of both, I think moreso ignorance simply because of how I saw Ronda move forward.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Ronda had the best possible gameplan for the type of skills she has. She is too limited a fighter for a gameplan to change the outcome of this fight. As a judoka she has to get within clinch range to even work her game, and that won't work against someone like Holly who uses good footwork to stay out of range and tag her with shots. Ronda did the same thing she always does to win, but she fought someone who knew who to throw a straight punch and use angles rather than moving backward into the cage. Take a look at all of her fights before this. Ronda basically just bullrushes girls and gets into clinch range while they stand there and throw a few punches thinking it will succeed. Just look at Sara McMann, which is probably Ronda's best fight. Sara throw some hard shots and tagged Ronda, but had no power or movement and got pushed against the cage. This is bantamweight WMMA. These girls don't know a lot of the simple things like moving around the cage, tucking their chins, defending takedowns, and even defending the standard submissions. Ronda got away with a ton because everyone else is as limited as she is, but Holly is not because she actually added to her kickboxing skillset and has the footwork to beat girls who know nothing about actual striking besides throwing punches like Ronda. Ronda could have won this if she was a good wrestler that could shoot from afar to get Holly down, but judokas don't have that ability all the time. It's why they lose at times to people who know how to stay out of their range. It's also why you don't see too many male judokas dominating outside of a few guys like Lombard, Dong Hyung Kim, and Karo before drugs did him in. It's a great base to have, but it can be easily nullified by good wrestling and boxing if the judoka isn't well rounded. Ronda is as limited as they come, and she got by on fighting girls even worse than she is. She is straight up Royce Gracie fighting people who knew nothing about the ground game, and Holly is the Sakuraba that shut her down by taking away her one advantage. Now you see why Cyborg is the Marco Ruas that Ronda/Royce had been desperately ducking for so long. The Gracies did the same thing Ronda is doing with Cyborg to Marco Ruas because they knew he was well versed in the ground game, and could knock them out on the feet as well. History is basically repeating itself.

This is exactly why her gameplan was flawed though, she walked in a straight line towards Holm, didn't seem to try to overly pursue a clinch or some form of trip, just walked in a straight line trying to throw haymakers in the same way she has in her previous fights.

Her gameplan should have been to be patient, cut angles & use your strikes to get close to Holly rather than trying to take her head off with every punch.

I know what you're thinking too. Why didn't Holly knock out girls so easily like she did to Ronda. It's because the girls Holly fought in the UFC were just in there fighting to survive. Ronda, to her credit, doesn't have that same type of fear, so she kept trying to do what she could to win instead of just not wanting to get knocked out. What she didn't plan for was Holly defending her armbar, and moving her hips around in the clinch so she couldn't throw her. But Ronda's aggression worked to the knock out because she wasn't too afraid to get knocked out. It's like when supposedly boring wrestlers fight guys who actually try to win instead of just lay on their backs and hold on. When they fight guys who go for submissions off their backs and try to stand up then they open themselves up for more punishment. A good example is GSP vs. Condit. Most of GSP's competition after Fitch just fought to hold on while Condit threw the kitchen sink at GSP on the feet and the ground. Needless to say Condit was GSP's best fight since the Matt Hughes wins, and that's all because he didn't just accept defeat early on and then ***** about being taken down. Ronda had no fear. She paid for it, but it made it entertaining instead of the boring decisions like Holm vs. Pennington and Reneau. That's also why a fight with Miesha might be very boring from Holm. Miesha might just fight to survive after getting tagged a few times, and Holly would be patient instead of trying to force a brawl like an idiot. That actually might be the UFC's best bet instead of getting Ronda owned again. Holly could fight a timid Miesha that fights to either a decision or a late corner stoppage. People would then try to make the argument that Ronda beat Miesha better, and she was overtrained, jet lagged, living too much like a rockstar, or whatever to fight her best against Holm. They could then market the rematch better if Ronda fought someone else and did her usual bumfight thing where she wins early in the fight, then talks **** about beating Holm. This way they can prolong Ronda's career better because if she fights Holly again without taking on anyone else she's going to get the **** beat out of her again, and she wouldn't have a shot at a title anymore. The only money fight left would be Cyborg, but we all know damn well she ain't going for that unless Cyborg is drained as hell at 135.

Ronda should be made to fight someone else I feel. She's only been champion for 2 years, fair enough she's made mince meat out of everyone she's faced but this isn't like Anderson Silva's immediate rematch after a KO lose, he'd been champion & dominating the sport for 7 or 8 years I believe. The result was definitive, you can't make a case for a Holm/Rousey rematch because you can't really say Ronda was winning on scorecards or had nearly beat her.

As for the Cyborg fight, I'm pretty sick about hearing about Cyborg. I mean here's my thoughts on it. The UFC doesn't have a 145lb women's division, Cyborg can't make 135lb & I think I read somewhere she failed to make 145lb a few years ago. So Rousey or Holly Holm for that matter, fighting Cyborg at 145lbs or at catchweight is totally & completely pointless. I mean what happens if Cyborg actually beats them? Then what? There's still no 145lb women's division so you'll have brought someone into the promotion that cannot make the weight for any of your current women's divisions. To be completely blunt about it, Cyborg should either make weight, get a few fights at 135lbs or she should just ****.

Even if the UFC did have a 145lb division, how many fighters can you name moved UP a weight class to fight someone that was already at their cut limit?

 

[Golgo-13]

Give 'Cupcake' dat rematch!

 

[Batmannerism]

As for the Cyborg fight, I'm pretty sick about hearing about Cyborg. I mean here's my thoughts on it. The UFC doesn't have a 145lb women's division, Cyborg can't make 135lb & I think I read somewhere she failed to make 145lb a few years ago. So Rousey or Holly Holm for that matter, fighting Cyborg at 145lbs or at catchweight is totally & completely pointless. I mean what happens if Cyborg actually beats them? Then what? There's still no 145lb women's division so you'll have brought someone into the promotion that cannot make the weight for any of your current women's divisions. To be completely blunt about it, Cyborg should either make weight, get a few fights at 135lbs or she should just ****.

Even if the UFC did have a 145lb division, how many fighters can you name moved UP a weight class to fight someone that was already at their cut limit?

Yup, agreed. Very tired of hearing "Cyborg" comments. She's like the boogey-woman of UFC. Maybe she is as good as people make out, maybe she's actually Chuck Norris- who knows ? But until she actually commits to stepping into the ring with Rousey, Holm or whoever at Bantamweight there's really nothing to be said.

Wonder how Holm would do against Jorina Baars in a straight up striking battle ? I'm guessing Baars would come out on top.

 

[E-Man]

Cyborg will always hang over Ronda's career until she fights her, and that's because she so blatantly ducked her. Ronda came onto the scene at 145 saying that she could beat up any girl, and talked a lot of noise about every girl to get attention. Funny enough she kept Cyborg's name out of her mouth until she was at 135 where she knew Cyborg couldn't make the weight. Ronda's ass straight up started a beef with Meisha to avoid Cyborg. Just look at how Ronda earned a title shot against Meisha in Cyborg's division. A third of Ronda's wins came at 145, and she only got her title shot at that division. Cyborg even called her out after one fight in the cage saying that if she can beat any girl then why is she moving down a weight class when she was the clear number one contender for Cyborg's belt. Ronda was on hush mode.

Once Ronda was safely at 135 she started talking about how Cyborg would need to make weight knowing damn well that would make Cyborg pretty ineffective. Not to mention that Ronda was straight up willing to move up to 145 to fight Gina Carano, and the UFC was in negotiations to sign that fight. So you're telling me she's willing to fight Gina at 145, a girl who hasn't fought in years since Cyborg destroyed her, but she won't fight the girl who beat her and would be a bigger money fight? That's ********, and it doesn't help that Ronda went around talking about how she'd kick all these guys asses in MMA and boxing. You can't talk **** like that and refuse to move up to then bring on the weight stipulation with someone who would be your most dangerous opponent. This is perhaps the most blatant case of ducking someone in MMA ever, and people won't let it go until she actually fights her. Otherwise it will continue to taint her career.

 

[Batmannerism]

GSP sums it up nicely

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/11/...-rouseys-holly-holm-floyd-mayweather-mma-news

 

[Deadpool876]

Agreed! Its all up to RR. Basically she should improve her stand up game. I also like to see some double leg TDs and GNP from RR in her next fight.

 

[kane9321]

Give 'Cupcake' dat rematch!

my baby

 

[B]

Cyborg will always hang over Ronda's career until she fights her, and that's because she so blatantly ducked her. Ronda came onto the scene at 145 saying that she could beat up any girl, and talked a lot of noise about every girl to get attention. Funny enough she kept Cyborg's name out of her mouth until she was at 135 where she knew Cyborg couldn't make the weight. Ronda's ass straight up started a beef with Meisha to avoid Cyborg. Just look at how Ronda earned a title shot against Meisha in Cyborg's division. A third of Ronda's wins came at 145, and she only got her title shot at that division. Cyborg even called her out after one fight in the cage saying that if she can beat any girl then why is she moving down a weight class when she was the clear number one contender for Cyborg's belt. Ronda was on hush mode.

Once Ronda was safely at 135 she started talking about how Cyborg would need to make weight knowing damn well that would make Cyborg pretty ineffective. Not to mention that Ronda was straight up willing to move up to 145 to fight Gina Carano, and the UFC was in negotiations to sign that fight. So you're telling me she's willing to fight Gina at 145, a girl who hasn't fought in years since Cyborg destroyed her, but she won't fight the girl who beat her and would be a bigger money fight? That's ********, and it doesn't help that Ronda went around talking about how she'd kick all these guys asses in MMA and boxing. You can't talk **** like that and refuse to move up to then bring on the weight stipulation with someone who would be your most dangerous opponent. This is perhaps the most blatant case of ducking someone in MMA ever, and people won't let it go until she actually fights her. Otherwise it will continue to taint her career.

Just because a fighter has a couple of fights in a weight class doesn't mean that's there natural weight. Ronda's successes in both Judo & MMA came at 140lbs or less. I think I listened to a Rogan podcast when one of her coaches was on & said the only reason she even fought at all at 145lbs was because she had to make weight on short notice & she only walked around at around 150lbs... at the time anyway.

The rivalry with Miesha Tate was active when Ronda had only fought at 145lb & Miesha was 135lb, it had nothing to do with avoiding Cyborg who I believe at the time Ronda dropped down was actually just suspended for a year or two for her steriod use. She then won Bantamweight title then defended it once for Strikeforce I think inside 3 months & then the UFC bought Strikeforce, announced they were having a women's Bantamweight division & the rest is history.

The **** talking between Ronda & Cyborg started after the fight with Miesha Tate which took place during Cyborg's suspension & I believe the steroid use was what started it all.

You mention it's Ronda ducking Cyborg, but how many years are we going on now in which Cyborg & Tito both said she will move down to fight Ronda, she can make the weight, she'll move down & fight a bantamweight outside of the UFC first to prove she can make the weight & here we are 2015 almost 2016 & we're still waiting on that weight cut as you said yourself it's easy to talk **** about someone when you know you won't be able to make the weight to fight them.

 

[Slushy]

Aldo ends The Streak tonight!

 

[brainchild81]

I hope so!

 

[B]

Damian Mia is a savage in the ground

 

[B]

Watching Rockhold vs Weidman, that's the way Silva should have brutalised him on the feet. Rockhold's head, body & leg kicks really busted Weidman in that 2nd round & set the tone for the rest of the fight.

Weidman is tough I'll give him that, but people read far too much into the fact he KO'd Silva.

Actually like him more after the defeat because of how well he took it.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Wow.

 

[The Game]

THEY DON'T TINK HOW I TINK

I'm still in shock

 

[B]

Wow..

McGregor just 1 tapped Jose Aldo. Absolutely phenomenal left hand right on the button.

 

[B]

There really is no talking point, it was as clean a KO as I've ever seen.