Official UFC Thread - Part 7

[Shawn Wayne]

Even though McGregor dominated that first round in their first encounter, Diaz did hit him with some strong shots albeit sporadically. McGregor & Diaz both have extremely good chins & an ability to take certain shots that might otherwise trouble some people, but it doesn't matter who you are, if you get tagged right on the chin, right on the button the way Diaz caught McGregor with the 1-2 that initially rocked McGregor, it will put anyone in trouble regardless of weight or anything like that.

A scrappy brawl would suit Nate, if it's more of a technical brawl I think it will suit Conor.

You betting on McG? And are you buying the ppv? I am torn on this one

 

[TheVileOne]

NSAC will probably dole out hefty fines for both Diaz and McGregor.

Diaz and his thug act annoy me. It annoys me that fans buy into it and prop him up by acting when he acts like a pretend thug.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Even though McGregor dominated that first round in their first encounter, Diaz did hit him with some strong shots albeit sporadically. McGregor & Diaz both have extremely good chins & an ability to take certain shots that might otherwise trouble some people, but it doesn't matter who you are, if you get tagged right on the chin, right on the button the way Diaz caught McGregor with the 1-2 that initially rocked McGregor, it will put anyone in trouble regardless of weight or anything like that.

A scrappy brawl would suit Nate, if it's more of a technical brawl I think it will suit Conor.

Conor does not have an extremely good chin. If he did, why did he try and take Nate down as soon as he got shook last time? Someone with really good chin (Prime Anderson Silva, Nick Diaz, Prime Big Nog, Condit) do not do that when hurt. They did not change how they fought. Watch Wand before his chin got cracked, that did not happen.

On the technical skills front. You are really underestimating the boxing of Nate. The Diaz probably have the best in MMA, and they don't use it to win decisions. They use it to break down their opponents.

 

[TheVileOne]

McGregor has always been way too reckless with his chin. He leaves it out and wide open.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

McGregor has always been way too reckless with his chin. He leaves it out and wide open.

Which is okay, not great but okay, when you have a big size advantage like he has at 145. But against Nate, Nate has the length and overall size to make that a problem for Conor.

 

[Shawn Wayne]

Conor is going to bust him up again for the first couple of rounds. The longer the fight goes the more it favors Diaz

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Conor is going to bust him up again for the first couple of rounds. The longer the fight goes the more it favors Diaz

While I think this is very possible, I also wonder how Nate having a proper camp will effect this. Like a potential strategy that will allow him to find his timing earlier.

 

[Shawn Wayne]

While I think this is very possible, I also wonder how Nate having a proper camp will effect this. Like a potential strategy that will allow him to find his timing earlier.

Likewise for Conor. I think they are getting my 60 bucks

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Likewise for Conor. I think they are getting my 60 bucks

I think the biggest benefit to Conor is he probably won't gas himself trying to swing for the fences early, and will understand the distance game better.

 

[B]

Conor does not have an extremely good chin. If he did, why did he try and take Nate down as soon as he got shook last time? Someone with really good chin (Prime Anderson Silva, Nick Diaz, Prime Big Nog, Condit) do not do that when hurt. They did not change how they fought. Watch Wand before his chin got cracked, that did not happen.

You can have a good chin & still get stunned, rocked or even dropped in fights if you are tagged on the button. Trying to survive when you have been hurt by trying to clinch or take someone down is also not an indictment either of having a bad chin. Trying to stand toe to toe when your hurt is foolishness, which is what McGregor tried to do for over a minute before he shot.

On the technical skills front. You are really underestimating the boxing of Nate. The Diaz probably have the best in MMA, and they don't use it to win decisions. They use it to break down their opponents.

I'm not underestimating or underselling Nate or Nick for that matter, both have a very competent & technical boxing level for MMA. If you let them impose themselves on you they will bust you up.

But boxing has it's limitations which Conor can and on paper should exploit given his wider array of tools unless as I say he gets drawn into a scrappy fists only brawl like their first bout.

 

[B]

You betting on McG? And are you buying the ppv? I am torn on this one

I'm in the UK, UFC events aren't PPV they are in one of our sports channels as part of the normal programming.

If I do a bet it will be on the co-main & main event. I'll do whichever 2 fighters are the underdogs to win via finish if the odds are decent enough.

I think McGregor & Rumble will win, but wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Diaz & Teixeira win.

 

[Shawn Wayne]

I'm in the UK, UFC events aren't PPV they are in one of our sports channels as part of the normal programming.

If I do a bet it will be on the co-main & main event. I'll do whichever 2 fighters are the underdogs to win via finish if the odds are decent enough.

I think McGregor & Rumble will win, but wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Diaz & Teixeira win.

I was on the fence till that press conference. That was crazy fun to watch. I wonder if Diaz realizes that it's better for him if he loses this one, to set up the trilogy and a third massive pay day for him. I'd read that his previous contract was 40k to show/ another 40k if he won

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You can have a good chin & still get stunned, rocked or even dropped in fights if you are tagged on the button. Trying to survive when you have been hurt by trying to clinch or take someone down is also not an indictment either of having a bad chin. Trying to stand toe to toe when your hurt is foolishness, which is what McGregor tried to do for over a minute before he shot.

Recovery speed is directly linked to chin. Getting rocked happens, getting knocked out cold happens. But when rocked how long it takes to recover is directly linked to the quality of the fighter's chin. You can stand toe to toe if you recover quickly. Conor got hurt, had a minute to recover and couldn't do it, and then panicked and shot on a guy who would tap him in seconds.

It is more foolish to stand up then go to mat with a guy who is like a gazillion times better on the mat? Conor isn't GSP, he doesn't know how to hold someone down, much less a Diaz. He got submitted in seconds. How was that not foolish?

'm not underestimating or underselling Nate or Nick for that matter, both have a very competent & technical boxing level for MMA. If you let them impose themselves on you they will bust you up.

But boxing has it's limitations which Conor can and on paper should exploit given his wider array of tools unless as I say he gets drawn into a scrappy fists only brawl like their first bout.

Having more tools does not mean you have the most effective tools. Like I don't except a lot of kicks for fear of ending up on the ground with Diaz again.

 

[TheVileOne]

Las Vegas Post's Mario Saunders on Twitter claimed that Nick Diaz knocked out a friend and/or teammate of Conor McGregor in the hallways at the weigh-ins.

Nick Diaz is a thug and he should be arrested for assault.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I'm here in Vegas for the weekend and it's crazy here. So many drunk Irish people.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think it's quite simple, I don't believe Conor can hurt Nate. He hit him flush, a lot, in the first fight. The moment Diaz really touched him back, he couldn't handle it. I hear him talking about overtraining and all that, but Nate obviously didn't prepare for him either.

Conor can't go to the mat with him or clinch with him, can't really hurt him, Nate's obviously not going to gas out, still has the size advantage and this time, a full camp. I just can't see how this ends up any different...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Conor can hurt Nate, but it will have to be a really, really good shot imo. Nate isn't quite Nick, but he is super durable and Conor looked like a smaller, less powerful fighter against him last time.

 

[B]

I was on the fence till that press conference. That was crazy fun to watch. I wonder if Diaz realizes that it's better for him if he loses this one, to set up the trilogy and a third massive pay day for him. I'd read that his previous contract was 40k to show/ another 40k if he won

On some levels I don't really care about the fight to be brutally honest, the fact it's a rematch at a weightclass which neither fighter will ever truly belong, it means nothing. It would have made more sense to have been at LW I think with the winner facing Alvarez or whoever is LW title holder when the fight comes around.

It's a fight that's very Floyd Mayweather, more about the money than either fighters legacy.. but I don't begrudge them for doing it because the aim of all jobs is to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible.

I'll still watch because both guys are very in your face & relentless, so it should be a good fight again, but I'd have liked for it to have meant more as in for a title or a No. 1 contender's match.

 

[B]

Recovery speed is directly linked to chin. Getting rocked happens, getting knocked out cold happens. But when rocked how long it takes to recover is directly linked to the quality of the fighter's chin. You can stand toe to toe if you recover quickly. Conor got hurt, had a minute to recover and couldn't do it, and then panicked and shot on a guy who would tap him in seconds.

You say he had over a minute to recover & couldn't, you will never recover from getting rocked like that if you continue to keep trying to stand toe to toe trading blow for blow with your opponent, it just will not happen unless by some miracle you can land something during those trades that equally stuns your opponent that just makes him think secondly about continuing to push forward.

It is more foolish to stand up then go to mat with a guy who is like a gazillion times better on the mat? Conor isn't GSP, he doesn't know how to hold someone down, much less a Diaz. He got submitted in seconds. How was that not foolish?

He was badly hurt & rocked, you can bet your life he wasn't even attempting or thinking about trying to take Diaz down & outgrapple him on the ground. His intentions are without question survival related & no doubt he wanted to just grab hold of something & end up in a stalemate position to try & survive the round & minimise any further damage which he was taking in abundance on the feet after he'd been hurt.

Having more tools does not mean you have the most effective tools. Like I don't except a lot of kicks for fear of ending up on the ground with Diaz again.

It didn't seem to concern him in their first bout as he still threw his normal level of kicks, it's what he was using to keep control of the octagon. One of them did lead to Nate taking him down but McGregor sweeped him once they'd got to the ground & ended up finishing the round with Nate in an awkward position against the cage with McGregor above him. The main kick(s) that matters are the ones to Nate's lead leg.

I don't think Diaz gives a **** about McGregor's striking ability anymore than I think McGregor gives a **** about Diaz's grappling ability.

 

[B]

Las Vegas Post's Mario Saunders on Twitter claimed that Nick Diaz knocked out a friend and/or teammate of Conor McGregor in the hallways at the weigh-ins.

Nick Diaz is a thug and he should be arrested for assault.

Does that count on his record as being the first time he's been able to win a fight since 2011?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You say he had over a minute to recover & couldn't, you will never recover from getting rocked like that if you continue to keep trying to stand toe to toe trading blow for blow with your opponent, it just will not happen unless by some miracle you can land something during those trades that equally stuns your opponent that just makes him think secondly about continuing to push forward.

Except I have seen it. I have seen Fedor do it, I have seen Nog do it, I have seen Wand do it. I have seen Anderson do it multiple times. It is possible if your chin is good enough. What is important is keeping your head even when hurt and under pressure. In such a situation clinching against he cage is most important.

He was badly hurt & rocked, you can bet your life he wasn't even attempting or thinking about trying to take Diaz down & outgrapple him on the ground. His intentions are without question survival related & no doubt he wanted to just grab hold of something & end up in a stalemate position to try & survive the round & minimise any further damage which he was taking in abundance on the feet after he'd been hurt.

And how did that work out? He lasted longer standing hurt then he did on the mat hurt.

It didn't seem to concern him in their first bout as he still threw his normal level of kicks, it's what he was using to keep control of the octagon. One of them did lead to Nate taking him down but McGregor sweeped him once they'd got to the ground & ended up finishing the round with Nate in an awkward position against the cage with McGregor above him. The main kick(s) that matters are the ones to Nate's lead leg.

I don't think Diaz gives a **** about McGregor's striking ability anymore than I think McGregor gives a **** about Diaz's grappling ability.

Conor definitely cares about Nate's grappling. He won't shut up about training JJ and talking about how he can handle Nate on the mat.

 

[B]

Except I have seen it. I have seen Fedor do it, I have seen Nog do it, I have seen Wand do it. I have seen Anderson do it multiple times. It is possible if your chin is good enough. What is important is keeping your head even when hurt and under pressure. In such a situation clinching against he cage is most important.

You will never recover from being that badly rocked if you continue to eat repeated accurately connecting shots to the head, which is what Nate was hitting Conor with.

I've seen people barely survive the rounds, but the list of fighters I've seen, at least in MMA survive while having the same stanky leg Conor had, while still going toe to toe, taking more & more solid shots to the chin, is extremely small. Kongo & Leban are 2 names that instantly come to mind both KO'd their opponent while being badly hurt & still taking punishment. Basically, you only survive being that rocked if you can avoid punishment by clinching, get to a safe position on the ground or face an incompetent opponent who hits arms/elbows rather than your face while trying to finish you.. like Maldonado did with Fedor.

And how did that work out? He lasted longer standing hurt then he did on the mat hurt.

Well as I've said, when you are repeatedly eating shots when you are that badly hurt you aren't going to last much longer, if you don't get KO'd the referee could quite easily stop it if he feels you're done & taking unnecessary punishment.

Even though he lost the first fight the way he did, McGregor made the correct decision to shoot because there was over a minute left in the contest & there was no way he was going to last another minute taking blows unless he somehow hurt Nate, either he'd have been KO'd or the ref would/should have stopped it.

Conor definitely cares about Nate's grappling. He won't shut up about training JJ and talking about how he can handle Nate on the mat.

Neither of them would even mention their camps or training if it weren't for the questions from the media regarding their camps & what each are doing to prepare for one another.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You will never recover from being that badly rocked if you continue to eat repeated accurately connecting shots to the head, which is what Nate was hitting Conor with.

I've seen people barely survive the rounds, but the list of fighters I've seen, at least in MMA survive while having the same stanky leg Conor had, while still going toe to toe, taking more & more solid shots to the chin, is extremely small. Kongo & Leban are 2 names that instantly come to mind both KO'd their opponent while being badly hurt & still taking punishment. Basically, you only survive being that rocked if you can avoid punishment by clinching, get to a safe position on the ground or face an incompetent opponent who hits arms/elbows rather than your face while trying to finish you.. like Maldonado did with Fedor.

When is the last time you saw the fight? It is on UFC's official YT page, so I watched it twice yesterday. You make it sounds like Conor was GSP against Serra. That isn't what happen. Conor got his bell rung, and started fighting backwards, and got himself put up against the cage. He didn't have to eat shots if he kept his head movement and footwork up. He couldn't not simply because he was rocked but because he panicked. He doesn't know how to handle someone stronger then him. When against the cage he was outmatched physically and thus he was in trouble. Conor's problem was four fold. Conor was hurt, Conor panicked, Nate is bigger and Nate is a much better grappler.

And that is not the only way to survive. Wand would get rocked, instantly recover and return fire. That is also how Anderson still does it. Look at his fight with Bisping. The MMA strikers with the best chins respond with strikes and clinches that lead to strikes. They recover quicker because they have better chins the Conor. Keeping your head is a big part of what the best do when rocked.

As a avid boxing and MMA fan I have seen this hundreds, thousands of times. The fighters with legit chins get rocked, but they recover quickly if not laid out. Floyd Mayweather has been rocked like twice in his career and he recovered almost instantly from going fish legs. Where as someone like Amir Khan goes fish legs and continually does stupid crap until he is finished. It is the difference between Wand before his chin was cracked and GSP who can't take a shot to save his life. And I say that while he is one of my 3 favorite fighters.

If you are not knocked out cold, it is all about how good your chin is in terms of recovery. That Conor didn't recover instantly tells us about his chin, and namely it isn't that good.

Well as I've said, when you are repeatedly eating shots when you are that badly hurt you aren't going to last much longer, if you don't get KO'd the referee could quite easily stop it if he feels you're done & taking unnecessary punishment.

Even though he lost the first fight the way he did, McGregor made the correct decision to shoot because there was over a minute left in the contest & there was no way he was going to last another minute taking blows unless he somehow hurt Nate, either he'd have been KO'd or the ref would/should have stopped it.

You only repeatedly eat shots if you don't recover quickly. Conor could have kept moving, making space. He didn't not only because he was hurt, but because he didn't know how to respond to the situation.

And no, you are completely wrong. How could it be the right decision when the best shots of the fight he took were on the mat (clean GnP) and he lost incredibly quickly?

Neither of them would even mention their camps or training if it weren't for the questions from the media regarding their camps & what each are doing to prepare for one another.

These are questions that come up with every major fight. What you talk about is up to you. You don't see Nate doing this. Conor is insecure here and it is hilarious. If Nate beats him again, Conor might just crack.

 

[B]

When is the last time you saw the fight? It is on UFC's official YT page, so I watched it twice yesterday. You make it sounds like Conor was GSP against Serra. That isn't what happen. Conor got his bell rung, and started fighting backwards, and got himself put up against the cage. He didn't have to eat shots if he kept his head movement and footwork up. He couldn't not simply because he was rocked but because he panicked. He doesn't know how to handle someone stronger then him. When against the cage he was outmatched physically and thus he was in trouble. Conor's problem was four fold. Conor was hurt, Conor panicked, Nate is bigger and Nate is a much better grappler.

And that is not the only way to survive. Wand would get rocked, instantly recover and return fire. That is also how Anderson still does it. Look at his fight with Bisping. The MMA strikers with the best chins respond with strikes and clinches that lead to strikes. They recover quicker because they have better chins the Conor. Keeping your head is a big part of what the best do when rocked.

I really don't think you really appreciate just how badly Nate hurt Conor. He was out on his feet, staggering backwards barely staying upright when Nate caught him. I'm sure there was a little bit of panic, but he did not start fighting backwards because he panicked & didn't know how to handle someone stronger than him, that's complete nonsense, he started getting pushed back & inviting Nate to walk him down because he was so clearly hurt, Nate knew it as well.

You're also I think kinda confusing being rocked with getting stunned. Like you say you've seen Anderson & Wanderlei recover instantly, you don't recover instantly from being as badly rocked as Conor was. I'm pretty sure I've seen all of Anderson's fights & the majority of Wanderlei's & I don't think I've ever seen ever of them as badly hurt as Conor clearly was, I've seen them both get stunned in which they've been hit & lost their balance or been dropped, but not to the point in which they visibly looked out of it almost staggering the way Conor was.

If you are not knocked out cold, it is all about how good your chin is in terms of recovery. That Conor didn't recover instantly tells us about his chin, and namely it isn't that good.

So by your logic then because Nate Diaz was badly rocked by Josh Thomson's headkick & couldn't recover instantly from that, his chin also isn't that good?

And no, you are completely wrong. How could it be the right decision when the best shots of the fight he took were on the mat (clean GnP) and he lost incredibly quickly?

How am I wrong? How would McGregor have stood a better chance of surviving the remaining minute or whatever it was of the round when he was eating strong stiff jabs, straights & short hooks at will from Diaz? He stood a much better chance of surviving the remaining time by trying to get into some sort of grappling exchange which he could stall. It ended badly but obviously the clear smart thing to do if he wanted to make it to the next round was to try and get hold of Nate to try & prevent any further damage.

These are questions that come up with every major fight. What you talk about is up to you. You don't see Nate doing this.Conor is insecure here and it is hilarious. If Nate beats him again, Conor might just crack.

I know as much about Conor's training as I do Nate's for the fight because they've both been candid about it in the abundance of interviews they've both done.

 

[B]

McGregor vs Diaz
Rumble vs Teixeira
Story vs Cerrone
Lim vs Perry
Means vs Homasi

There's my picks for main card, Story/Cerrone is a nice fight that's slipped under the radar with all the Diaz/McGregor ********. Looking forward to the Rumble fight probably the most, if Teixeira can weather the early KO power storm it could be a war.