Official Young Avengers Discussion Thread

[TheCorpulent1]

I chalk that up to Cheung's lovely art.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think if Marvel were genuinely serious about their newer characters, they would do as an event a longer version of DC's "world without grown ups" thing. DC used that to help promote and launch YOUNG JUSTICE, which was such a bad comic it only lasted 50 issues (sarcasm). Something would happen and every well known, established super hero and heroine would be GONE. Poof. Vanished. Staff writers for 6-12 months would basically be handled whatever younger characters they wanted and would roll from there. It would be a huge gamble and even sales suicide, but to be honest Marvel is "eating themselves to death" like Pizza The Hut from "SPACEBALLS" in terms of comic sales anyway. And it would take nothing short of that to make retailers and fans give a **** about any of these younger characters. They could even get cheeky about DC and go, "They bring you the SILVER AGE, we bring you the NEW AGE" or whatever. And that's the premise. The adults are all gone. Now it's your time to put up or shut up, Young Marvel Heroes. You up for it? And not even the readers have a choice. The dilemma is that all of the fans may just jump off, but maybe, just maybe, if Marvel lowered prices and didn't write garbage (and hide their gems among it), that might not happen. Daffy idea, I know. But I honestly feel that is the only way you are ever going to get any hype around any character made after the year 2000, or even 1995.

Now THAT is something I'd LOVE to see. I've never heard of the DC equivalent you're talking about but I'm envisioning some powerhouse villain or group of villains finding a method to put all of the best known heroes to sleep leaving the children and underdogs left to defend the world from their rising power. I'm thinking Kang or Magus or something like that.

The X-Titles would have to rely on the New X-Men and the Five Lights for an arc or two. X-Factor might have Layla alone. Avengers would be the Young Avengers and the Academy kids. Spider-Girl would take over Amazing Spider-Man. Iron Lad would take over Invincible Iron Man. Thunderstrike would take over Thor. Nomad would take over Captain America. Skaar would be the Incredible Hulk star. Put some focus on the Runaways, some of the Young Allies, some surviving Secret Warriors, and former Initiative cadets.

Tie it all together leading to the ultimate throwdown of young heroes versus major badguys for the sake of the lost heroes. In the end there'd be a new respect for the young heroes of the Marvel Universe from both sides of the panels. I'm thinking do it in an Age of Apocalypse type of format.

Man... that idea is all kinds of juicy goodness!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Much as I love Thor, I'd be all for a Thunderstrike/Tarene comic in place of his comic, provided Fraction doesn't get to stink that one up, too.

 

[C.B.C.D]

I think a Marvel version of world without grown-ups would be very cool. Marvel have alot of great young character.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Really? You think the roster is the biggest problem? Not that they were effectively put on hold for like 4 years by Heinberg's ego and Joe Q's desperation for big TV names, only to return with a thoroughly underwhelming series so far?

Well the complete lack of not having any new characters can be attributed to not doing anything with the characters due to waiting for Heinberg

 

[hippie_hunter]

The problem is those are long term plans for the YA as a franchise, and Marvel has refused to make them without Allen Heinberg, and will continue to fail to make any until this CRUSADE is over and he either commits to more or officially backs off and says, "I'm done" and someone else can come in. Assuming that Axel Alonso has more backbone about that sort of thing than Joe Quesada.

And that is why I am rather annoyed with Heinberg. His refusal to commit to writing comics properly has ruined the Wonder Woman relaunch and allowed the Young Avengers to become severely stale.

One fundamental problem is in order for YOUNG AVENGERS to really work as a premise, you need to genuinely believe these are the Avengers of the future. And they're not. They may be fine characters, but while Kate Bishop may call herself Hawkeye, no one treats her as the next Hawkeye. No one will confuse Hulkling for either Hulk or Capt. Marvel. Wiccan's connection to the Scarlet Witch is a scarlet letter. Some writers confuse this new Vision with the old one (like Ed Brubaker). The only one of them with a decent legacy connection is Stature, but she hasn't done much since MIGHTY AVENGERS ended. Instead the YA often feel like sidekicks in a world where no one wants them. Like virtually every young hero. Marvel is so eager to be the opposite of DC that their adult heroes are incredibly inconsiderate to anyone under drinking age in a costume. Even the X-Men these days treat their cadets like canon fodder, completely expendable if an older character must be saved.

I think that Young Avengers works better as if they are sidekicks that no one really wants. Hell, the Avengers even tried to get them to step down. By having them be true sidekicks that would eventually take the place of their "mentors" would be far too much like the Teen Titans where we have already seen Dick Grayson, Donna Troy, Wally West, and Garth fill in the roles of Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and King of Atlantis when they died/disappeared.

The characters work better when they have more vague connections to the heroes they are inspired by like Patriot/Captain America, Hawkeye/Hawkeye, Speed/Quicksilver, Wiccan/Scarlet Witch and Thor, Hulkling/Hulk and Captain Marvel, Vision/Vision, Iron Lad/Iron Man, Stature/Scott Lang and Hank Pym. Giving the characters a more direction connection like Bucky has with Captain America takes away what makes the Young Avengers unique and again makes them rip-offs of the Teen Titans.

 

[Dread]

I chalk that up to Cheung's lovely art.

Artists aren't as big a draw these days as they were in the 90's. That said, his artwork has been quite good. Sure, some of the costumes are off, but that's not his fault. He made Wanda look very pretty in a wedding dress.

Now THAT is something I'd LOVE to see. I've never heard of the DC equivalent you're talking about but I'm envisioning some powerhouse villain or group of villains finding a method to put all of the best known heroes to sleep leaving the children and underdogs left to defend the world from their rising power. I'm thinking Kang or Magus or something like that.

The X-Titles would have to rely on the New X-Men and the Five Lights for an arc or two. X-Factor might have Layla alone. Avengers would be the Young Avengers and the Academy kids. Spider-Girl would take over Amazing Spider-Man. Iron Lad would take over Invincible Iron Man. Thunderstrike would take over Thor. Nomad would take over Captain America. Skaar would be the Incredible Hulk star. Put some focus on the Runaways, some of the Young Allies, some surviving Secret Warriors, and former Initiative cadets.

Tie it all together leading to the ultimate throwdown of young heroes versus major badguys for the sake of the lost heroes. In the end there'd be a new respect for the young heroes of the Marvel Universe from both sides of the panels. I'm thinking do it in an Age of Apocalypse type of format.

Man... that idea is all kinds of juicy goodness!

Chaos King basically put all (or most) of the mortals to sleep in CHAOS WAR, but for it to really hit the gut as an "event", they'd have to be gone. Like, beamed to another realm/time/who knows. To at least go through the motions of death while making it clear that it may not last forever, since, c'mon, it can't commercially. And to make it stick that would mean not giving into the temptation to launch a side mini chronicling where they are. No, they're just gone. And whoever did it is all, "BWAHAHAHA, I finally got rid of them all! Now it's our time, boys!" and it's up to the kids to either put up or shut up, basically. It also introduces which of them would want to try to bring the adults back versus those who might like the chance at the big time and not want to "hand it back" when it's all over. It could still be an interesting character and moral dilemma besides just being a youth promoting gimmick.

But, yeah, you have the idea. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN becomes AMAZING SPIDER-GIRL #600-whatever and Dan Slott would have X amount of months to write her or whatever. THOR would have Thunderstrike and/or Tarene or whoever. CAPTAIN AMERICA might have Nomad or Patriot or whatever. Titles like X-MEN or AVENGERS would remain the same, just the rosters would be different.

Youngsters who can never, and will never, have their day in the sun when it counts taking over sort of just fade into oblivion. There have been 600 junior teams of X-Men but still the same ol' Cyclops or Beast or even Wolverine at the top. Well, now they're gone.

This is all brainstorming, of course. The reward is barely bigger than the risk. The risk is that fans collectively go, "no, we don't care" and abandon the books in droves, and never return. Even offering first issues of the event at, say, $2.50 may not help. It could go down as the worst stunt since #-1 in the 90's. But I honestly don't see much else helping boost the importance of the newer blood characters beyond something drastic. Fans didn't turn out for MC2, and they don't turn out for new characters or teams of them. Yes, even X-23 and DAKEN are hardly sales juggernauts (they should last a year, but then what). The only thing that sells is if they think it is important. I can think of no other way to make the kids important besides literally doing it by force.

Still, the idea amuses me more than the idea for FEAR ITSELF.

Much as I love Thor, I'd be all for a Thunderstrike/Tarene comic in place of his comic, provided Fraction doesn't get to stink that one up, too.

If he only had 8 issues, he could speed things up a tad.

I think a Marvel version of world without grown-ups would be very cool. Marvel have alot of great young character.

Glad so many liked my idea.

And that is why I am rather annoyed with Heinberg. His refusal to commit to writing comics properly has ruined the Wonder Woman relaunch and allowed the Young Avengers to become severely stale.

Indeed. News flash; GREY'S ANATOMY WASN'T THAT GOOD! Get over the man-love, Marvel! YA still has a small but loyal audience, but I don't know how long that will last if the franchise enters another deep freeze in 2012.

I think that Young Avengers works better as if they are sidekicks that no one really wants. Hell, the Avengers even tried to get them to step down. By having them be true sidekicks that would eventually take the place of their "mentors" would be far too much like the Teen Titans where we have already seen Dick Grayson, Donna Troy, Wally West, and Garth fill in the roles of Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and King of Atlantis when they died/disappeared.

The characters work better when they have more vague connections to the heroes they are inspired by like Patriot/Captain America, Hawkeye/Hawkeye, Speed/Quicksilver, Wiccan/Scarlet Witch and Thor, Hulkling/Hulk and Captain Marvel, Vision/Vision, Iron Lad/Iron Man, Stature/Scott Lang and Hank Pym. Giving the characters a more direction connection like Bucky has with Captain America takes away what makes the Young Avengers unique and again makes them rip-offs of the Teen Titans.

Marvel has always wanted their own Teen Titans in a way, though. TEEN TITANS was neck and neck with UXM in the 80's. NEW WARRIORS was launched to try to capitalize on that idea. Marvel has tried launching no end of youth teams since. AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE was very close to being NW's in all but name.

Is it realistic that all the adult heroes would let these kids risk themselves and die without either arresting them or being dipsticks, or is it just longtime editorial philosophy hampering logical conclusion writing? Because how I see it, the Avengers haven't known how to handle anyone under 18 since they told Rick Jones to take a hike in the 60's, only for him to become road buddies with the Hulk (which HAD to be riskier than being Bucky, c'mon Cap). The adult heroes tell the Young Avengers to quit or else on one hand, but the moment there's a crisis, they "draft" them as canon fodder, such as for CIVIL WAR or SIEGE. How about giving them the benefit of the doubt or some assistance in between?

I'd just like to see more crapping or getting off the pot with some of these characters. We'll see how things change with Alonso in the hot seat.

 

[NightBeetle]

Cup O' Joe TALK TO THE HAT: All Fan Friday

Next up, we've got a run of Avenger questions from marvell2100, who starts out saying "With the return of Iron Lad in 'Avengers: The Children's Crusade,' will we see the return of the old Vision? He's been gone for a really long time. I've always thought of him as a cornerstone of the Avengers. Also, he needs to be with Wanda again."

Tom Brevoort: The only thing I can tell you at the moment, Marvell2100, obviously, is to keep reading "Avengers: The Children's Crusade," because if anything like that were to be happening, that's likely the place where it would occur. But no promises!

 

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