Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[Stark Bauer]

Timothy Olyphant as Doom... that might be good. Never thought of that one.

I was seriously stumped just looking at the Vegas odds actors. But then I got to thinking who reminds me of an evil John Krasinski lol

 

[Stark Bauer]

I think Alice Eve would be good, but I personally like Rosamund Pike just a little bit better.

Rosamund is an excellent actress but I feel would be better as MCU Emma Frost. She plays a villain so convincingly in Gone Girl

 

[Stark Bauer]

Dr. Doom is Roma aka Romani. That's why I'm hesitant to fancast Doom because even though he's white-passing in the comics, it's a hugely important part of what makes him who he is (his family facing discrimination for being Romani)

I hope Marvel doesn't overlook this, and make Doom generically eastern European. Esp with their commitment to diversity and representation.

If they can find a Pakistani Muslim actress for Kamala Khan, then they can absolutely find a Romani actor for Doom. It'll probably have to be an unknown, but that may be a benefit

get the best person for the job period.
I would rather an actor that can act than a Romani that can’t act his way out of a paper bag. Marvel removed all references to Tibet but you don’t hear Tibetans up in arms about it. I know I said Ben Grimm should be played by a Jewish actor but honestly they can cast anyone male as long as they portray him as Jewish

 

[Marvel united]

I would rather an actor that can act than a Romani that can’t act his way out of a paper bag. Marvel removed all references to Tibet but you don’t hear Tibetans up in arms about it.

Why is it one or the other, though? There are talented Romani actors out there who could absolutely play Doom. I don't think it's a good excuse to erase his race & ethnicity

It just means it will take effort to find the right actor, which Marvel is certainly no stranger to. They had a worldwide search for their Peter Parker, auditioning thousands of actors. They can do the same for Doom.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Dr. Doom is Roma aka Romani. That's why I'm hesitant to fancast Doom because even though he's white-passing in the comics, it's a hugely important part of what makes him who he is (his family facing discrimination for being Romani)

I hope Marvel doesn't overlook this, and make Doom generically eastern European. Esp with their commitment to diversity and representation.

If they can find a Pakistani Muslim actress for Kamala Khan, then they can absolutely find a Romani actor for Doom. It'll probably have to be an unknown, but that may be a benefit

I would rather an actor that can act than a Romani that can’t act his way out of a paper bag.

Why is it one or the other, though? There are talented Romani actors out there who could absolutely play Doom. I don't think it's a good excuse to erase his race & ethnicity

It just means it will take effort to find the right actor, which Marvel is certainly no stranger to. They had a worldwide search for their Peter Parker, auditioning thousands of actors. They can do the same for Doom.

Because it’s my opinion. Also you don’t hear all the Asians screaming and complaining that their race was erased when they are portrayed by non Asians (Kung Fu the TV series, and a plethora of others) or middle eastern people complaining about latinos cast as their people throughout the 80s and 90s. Race is a social construct anyway we are all relatively the same in desires and needs. Just different cultures and customs unique to a specific area. African Americans are not culturally African - they were in some ways perpetrators of slavery as well as antagonized by the native Africans when they formed the colonies in Liberia and Sierra Leone. Culture is not unique to one blood type. It is taught. Anyway without going too off topic I trust Feige will nail the casting as he always does.

 

[BobJM]

I think Kamala Khan's religious background plays a bigger part in her characterization. She's very much a child of immigrants. Not that Ben's Jewishness shouldn't be acknowledged, but it never felt like such a major character trait to me. And I wouldn't limit casting choices based on it. Seth Rogen is a fine pick. But so is for example Domenick Lombardozzi who is a funny, talented New Yorker who sounds and acts a lot like Ben Grimm does in my head.

Agreed; and like the Lombardozzi pick. Tbh though I’m hoping HBO keeps him in their stable and he is Bullock in that Gotham PD show.

 

[Marvel united]

Because it’s my opinion. Also you don’t hear all the Asians screaming and complaining that their race was erased when they are portrayed by non Asians or middle eastern people complaining about latinos cast as their people throughout the 80s and 90s.

Can you cite any modern examples of Asian characters not being played by Asian actors? Because if this was happening, there would absolutely be outrage. Yellow face has a very racist history in the West

And we aren't living in 1980-1990. Culture and expectations have changed dramatically

Race is a social construct anyway we are all the same. Just different cultures and customs unique to a specific area. Not unique to one blood type. Anyway without going too off topic I trust Feige will nail the casting as he always does.

But that's not a great excuse to erase a character's marginalized identity. Race absolutely is a social construct, but that doesn't change the fact that these constructs define the experiences of millions of people

The Roma have been persecuted and hated all throughout eastern Europe for both their race and ethnicity. Doom's story reflects this

 

[Crimz]

Marvel/Disney has all the resources to find a Romani actor who could play Doom. There is no excuse if they don't. The only reason would be that they didn't want to.
Same for a Jewish Ben, there are countless Jewish actors who could play him and Marvel could easily find someone who could embody all aspects of the character. Fans have limited knowledge on actors when compared to a movie company that can send specific casting calls for the role.
Just because a fan can't think of someone who can meet all criteria doesn't mean they don't exist. No fan would have picked Chris Hemsworth for the role of Thor or Hiddleston for Loki because they simply weren't famous enough at the time.

 

[BobJM]

Not discounting Roma culture, but I don’t see that as being intrinsic to Doom’s story or character.

I think of Doom as Latverian, not Romani; and suspect they’ll cast a wide net of European actors for consideration. Had Daniel Bruhl not already been cast as Zemo, he’d have made a helluva Doom.

 

[Marvel united]

Not discounting Roma culture, but I don’t see that as being intrinsic to Doom’s story or character.

I think of Doom as Latverian, not Romani; and suspect they’ll cast a wide net of European actors for consideration. Had Daniel Bruhl not already been cast as Zemo, he’d have made a helluva Doom.

But it is intrinsic to his character. Doom is the child of Romani travelers, that's how his family ended up Latveria. Without this, there is no Doom.

I suggest you read this

Spoiler

His people suffered through oppression and tyranny, his mother was a victim of it. Doom's story is one of revolution, and the oppressed taking their power back


But that power, ultimately corrupts.

Marvel/Disney has all the resources to find a Romani actor who could play Doom. There is no excuse if they don't. The only reason would be that they didn't want to.
Same for a Jewish Ben, there are countless Jewish actors who could play him and Marvel could easily find someone who could embody all aspects of the character. Fans have limited knowledge on actors when compared to a movie company that can send specific casting calls for the role.
Just because a fan can't think of someone who can meet all criteria doesn't mean they don't exist. No fan would have picked Chris Hemsworth for the role of Thor or Hiddleston for Loki because they simply weren't famous enough at the time.

Exactly. It's really the lack of knowledge of the source material. If most people picked up an X-Men comic, and saw Jubilee in it, they'd probably assume she's white... Because that's how she's drawn half the time. Nevermind the fact that Jubilation being the daughter of Chinese immigrants is a part of who she, and informs her deeper outlook on life.. It's why she's an orphan (her parents were murdered).

It's funny, because Fox actually considered Natalie Portman for Jubilee before they rewrote for Rogue. So I'm not far off

I hope they cast these roles right. Both Doom and Ben.

Maybe Oscar Jaenada for Doom?

 

[MilkmanDan]

Why is it one or the other, though? There are talented Romani actors out there who could absolutely play Doom. I don't think it's a good excuse to erase his race & ethnicity

It just means it will take effort to find the right actor, which Marvel is certainly no stranger to. They had a worldwide search for their Peter Parker, auditioning thousands of actors. They can do the same for Doom.

Wide auditions for unknown actors could work. But I'm not sure if I agree that there's automatically some perfect Romani actor out there. If there is and they find him, great. However, Romani actors are not an infinite group of people. There's only so many of them. And you need one who ticks a lot of boxes. Talented, right age (compared to the other characters), speaks English, cool voice and so on... Doom is a tough enough character to cast already. I don't know if MCU should limit their options to a relatively small group of potential actors.

 

[BobJM]

But it is intrinsic to his character. Doom is the child of Romani travelers, that's how his family ended up Latveria. Without this, there is no Doom.

Yeah but come on, that’s a stretch? Without his parents’ maybe-Romani heritage, depending on which version you’re reading, there is no Doom?

I get that his humble/poor upbringing is good character building, but he and his mother could (and in my opinion should) be Sokovian refugees/gypsies/travelers.

I suggest you read this

Spoiler

Arent those illustrations just generic/non-descriptive though? I’m thumbing through Book of Doom (the source) on Marvel Unlimited now and I can’t see any label or marker that this is a Romani village specifically, or that his Victor is partaking in any specific religious/cultural customs. Just vaguely Eastern European.

His people suffered through oppression and tyranny, his mother was a victim of it. Doom's story is one of revolution, and the oppressed taking their power back
View attachment 40656

But that power, ultimately corrupts.

All well and fine; but this is a story that can be told by many actors of many backgrounds.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Yeah but come on, that’s a stretch? Without his parents’ maybe-Romani heritage, depending on which version you’re reading, there is no Doom?

I get that his humble/poor upbringing is good character building, but he and his mother could (and in my opinion should) be Sokovian refugees/gypsies/travelers.

Those terms are generally used for the Roma, though. (Apart from the Traveller community in the British Isles but that's an entirely different conversation). I don't disagree with portraying Doom as a Romani. I'm all for any portrayal of Romani people where no one gets cursed. I just wouldn't necessarily limit the casting call based on ethnicity in this case.

 

[Crimz]

There's no excuse for Ben though. There are tons of actors of Jewish descent in Hollywood.
Also if you're fine with them changing Doom who's heritage is important to the character then there should no problem with race changes to the members if the FF where it isn't.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Now that we know, with some certainty, that the tease at the end of Spider-Man Far From Home was for the FF, can we read any more into it than that?

Are Watts and Feige not just hinting that the FF is coming, but they’re already in the MCU and Reed Richards has bought the tower?

Who Bought Avengers Tower In The MCU? Every Theory

 

[BobJM]

I’m hoping for Reed Richards or Leland Baxter, definitely.

edit: Baxter could be funding Richards’ ventures, one of which resulted in the creation of the Fantastic Four. Or maybe after that catastrophe, Richards is strapped for cash & has to bring in Baxter to help him fund his future ventures.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I’m hoping for Reed Richards or Leland Baxter, definitely.

edit: Baxter could be funding Richards’ ventures, one of which resulted in the creation of the Fantastic Four. Or maybe after that catastrophe, Richards is strapped for cash & has to bring in Baxter to help him fund his future ventures.

Yeah, it could be the Baxter Building but pre-FF.

i actually remember, several months before FFH came out and before we knew about the tease, thinking the shape of the building looked like the Baxter Building.

MCU Fantastic Four - Part 1

 

[Marvel united]

Wide auditions for unknown actors could work. But I'm not sure if I agree that there's automatically some perfect Romani actor out there. If there is and they find him, great. However, Romani actors are not an infinite group of people. There's only so many of them. And you need one who ticks a lot of boxes. Talented, right age (compared to the other characters), speaks English, cool voice and so on... Doom is a tough enough character to cast already. I don't know if MCU should limit their options to a relatively small group of potential actors.

There has to be someone out there. Feige buckled down and took the time to cast Kamala Khan correctly, knowing how difficult it would be. But they did it right, because they knew how important it was to her character

Spider-Man had a worldwide search for young actors. Surely, they can do the same for arguably the most important Marvel villain of all time

Arent those illustrations just generic/non-descriptive though? I’m thumbing through Book of Doom (the source) on Marvel Unlimited now and I can’t see any label or marker that this is a Romani village specifically, or that his Victor is partaking in any specific religious/cultural customs. Just vaguely Eastern European.

Doom Is firmly established as Romani as early as Fantastic Four annual #2 (1964)



In Latveria, Romani ("Gypsy" is widely considered a slur, and has been used as such for centuries) clans are an oppressed class, as in real-life. Victor was born into a Romani camp, and his mother died attempting to fight back against the Hitler-inspired Baron (The Roma were also marked for extermination by the Nazi regime. There are very clear parallels here)

Books of Doom elaborates on his established origin. Showing the culture and people

All well and fine; but this is a story that can be told by many actors of many backgrounds.

Ofc. Oppression, revolution and corruption are universal languages. But we are talking about a specific story, a specific group, and a specific experience, and I feel it deserves to be represented correctly and authentically.

This is why I'm partial to Doom being in Black Panther. I feel like thats the perfect opportunity to touch upon the history of Latveria, and Doom's beginnings. Esp in juxtaposition to Wakanda

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

BP2 is going to have its own hurdles trying to step out of boseman's shadow, no need to saddle it with doom

i think world building doom around the other stuff works better. rumors of latveria in wandavision, possible dr strange 2 seeding, maybe zemo's sokovia being destroyed caused regional instability and that seeds revolution in latveria for doom to rise, etc. or maybe they just do him from square one in F4, who knows

 

[ernesth100]

I just had a great idea, Doombots possibly made from the remains of Ultron units left in Sokovia?

This could lead to either
A. Age of Ultron 2

B. Doom and Ultron team up

 

[OB12]

What about Tanner Buchanan (Cobra Kai) for Johnny?

 

[ernesth100]

What about Tanner Buchanan (Cobra Kai) for Johnny?

While I love the show. I don't necessarily think they'll go the "diverse" Johnny route. He'll probably be white like the rest of the F4. I'm just assuming they'll wanna get as comic accurate as possible this time.

 

[Detective Conan]

While I love the show. I don't necessarily think they'll go the "diverse" Johnny route. He'll probably be white like the rest of the F4. I'm just assuming they'll wanna get as comic accurate as possible this time.

That’s only your assumption though. Watts, Feige, and Sarah Finn(the casting director) may or not go diverse with their casting. It’s not clear either way. So I wouldn’t rule out non-white actors for the roles until we get official word on casting.

 

[SumT]

I hope they cast these roles right. Both Doom and Ben.

Maybe Oscar Jaenada for Doom?
View attachment 40657

Dont u know that Oscar is spanish?

 

[Spider-Fan83]

While I love the show. I don't necessarily think they'll go the "diverse" Johnny route. He'll probably be white like the rest of the F4. I'm just assuming they'll wanna get as comic accurate as possible this time.

wait, what is Tanner Buchanan's background? that would make him too "diverse" for the role?