Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[KRYPTON INC.]

I know I’ve had a few of my posts disappear too. Major bummer. I think it was only for posts made over one night and probably won’t happen again



Like his character in Jupiter ascending?

As long as he doesn't do that voice... YEESH!

 

[Silvermoth]

Ha, maybe.

Since we’re waiting for news, here’s some of the looks I can see the FF having when they’re in their civilian gear

Reed Richards - classy 1950s Professor look


Susan storm - refined but 60s fun, kind of like Joanna Lumley


The thing - always about comfort, very New Yorker


Johnny Storm - total contrast to the thing. Always flashy and the height of fashion. Top brands pay him to wear their clothes

 

[Crimz]

Ha, maybe.

Since we’re waiting for news, here’s some of the looks I can see the FF having when they’re in their civilian gear

Reed Richards - classy 1950s Professor look


Susan storm - refined but 60s fun, kind of like Joanna Lumley


The thing - always about comfort, very New Yorker


Johnny Storm - total contrast to the thing. Always flashy and the height of fashion. Top brands pay him to wear their clothes

Is this if it were set in the 60s?

 

[Crimz]

Because I'm bored I'm going to talk about how I'd want their powers depicted on screen.

First up is Sue

Movement

Something I've been thinking about is the way that they she should move when using her powers.

Like when Sue projects her force-fields it should be a bit more dynamic than just standing in place with her hands out. I was thinking that they should take inspiration from the earth bending from the Avatar series when it comes to attacks. Sue creates solid constructs of all shapes and sizes, the way earth benders move in that show is very solid and is a great way to show that what they're effecting are solid objects.



Now she shouldn't move exactly like them, but movements and gestures would go a long way. Part of what works for me with Scarlet Witch and Dr Strange are the ways they move to show their powers. Sue should move in a different way to them, more solid movements and less jazz hands, but they show that movement is important to sell the powers.

Sue should also be able to fly via the force-field disc. Don't have to go into more detail than that.

Appearance

Sue's force-fields should look clear like glass and not that blue energy in Fant4stic. They are meant to be invisible, not this bright blue energy, and to help convey that they should not be visible to the audience at times. Say for a fight she may make the motions of an attack and we see her opponent react to being hit by them, but we don't actually see them. Or we see her block something without seeing the force-field. Like this:

The constructs she makes should be more complex than the basic sphere that surrounds her. She can make them any shape she wants and is only limited by her imagination, which means she is only limited by the writers imagination. Get creative!

Let her fight!

She is meant to be the most powerful member of the team yet in all the Fox films she barely fights. Let her kick ass and show why she is considered the most powerful member.
You can have some amazing action scenes with Sue.

This has mainly been about her force-fields as invisibility is easy to get right.

I'll do ones for the other members some other time.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah I’d be happy to see Sue fight more, use more gestures to sell moves and fly using the disc.

Look forward to your other summaries.

 

[HBarnill]

Of COURSE Crimz would talk about Sue first!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ha, maybe.

Since we’re waiting for news, here’s some of the looks I can see the FF having when they’re in their civilian gear

Reed Richards - classy 1950s Professor look


Susan storm - refined but 60s fun, kind of like Joanna Lumley


The thing - always about comfort, very New Yorker


Johnny Storm - total contrast to the thing. Always flashy and the height of fashion. Top brands pay him to wear their clothes

While I think Reed would be very Prof. styling, I would add that there's a little bit of flash there to offset the "nerd" vibe. Above all I think what's been missing from onscreen Reed has been a cool confidence.

Sue... Eh... I think again, just a dash bit more of glamour.

Thing? Spot on Silver. He indeed should be the most New Yawk of the four.

Johnny... I don't know where to start but... I'm sorry Silver that outfit isn't stylish or cool it's just loud and dumb. I think Johnny should look more cool than "hip". Let me put it this way... I don't think Johnny would be ALLOWED to walk out of the Baxter Buidling looking like that by Sue and he certainly wouldn't want to put up with the ribbing Ben would give him.

 

[Silvermoth]

Well, Ben will make fun of whatever Johnny wears. That would never stop him.

About Susan, I definitely want to see her making force field projectiles and firing them off

Is this if it were set in the 60s?

Kind of a blend. 60s inspired but set in the present day like kingsman. Hang on I’ll do if it was set in the 60s

Mr fantastic


Susan storm


Ben Grimm


Johnny Storm

 

[Crimz]

Of COURSE Crimz would talk about Sue first!

 

[Crimz]

Next up is Johnny.

Movement

For Johnny getting the flight right is one of the most important things when it comes to his powers. As soon as he flames on he should rarely touch the ground, even when still he should be floating.
His flight segments should have the most dynamic camera angles as well as show his tremendous speed while flying.

They should look at the Spider-Man films for how dynamic it can look traversing through the air in New York. Most flight scenes usually just mix between a wide shot and closeup, when they should be more varied like Spider-Man's while web-swinging.

Also Johnny would definitely be the type to do flips and tricks while flying, which would differ him more from other flyers.



For the sense of power look at DCEU's Superman. It shows the sheer speed and power of his flying, something that should be the same with Johnny as he's one of Marvel's fastest fliers.



Don't use Iron Man as reference as the way he flies is more similar to a jet, which works for him because his suit is mechanical. That type of movement while flying wouldn't work for Johnny as it's too linear and doesn't have the wow factor. Johnny's flight should make people go wow and wish they could fly like how Spider-Man makes people wish they could web swing.

Appearance

This is based on how good the effects are, it's a man on fire which shouldn't be too difficult to conceptualize. The flames just need to move naturally on his body and he should leave a trail of flames behind him as it looks cool. The biggest hurdle I see is making his facial features stand out while he's aflame. The Chris Evan version was almost there and only looked slightly off, but with current effects and mocap it shouldn't be a problem.

You can take some artistic liberties with how he looks flamed on as in comics it differs depending on the artist. As long as he looks like a man on fire and you can clearly see his facial features so that the actor can emote it should be good.

How he fights

Johnny can do more than just throw fireballs and go nova. He control temperature, absorb heat to the point of freezing things, control fire, make shapes out of flame. Not all of these things will be highlighted in the first film but they should be shown throughout the franchise.
Whenever Johnny fights it should be while he's constantly moving, if he throws a fireball it should be while circling the enemy in the air. As I said in the movement section, once flamed on he should rarely be on the ground, while fighting he should rarely be still. It's all about making the action scenes as visually interesting and dynamic as possible, watching Johnny should be like watching a living comet.

I think Johnny isn't too difficult to get right. Admittedly, the Tim Story films did quite a few things right with the character so we know that Hollywood at least knows what direction to go. They just haven't gotten it perfect yet.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Because I'm bored I'm going to talk about how I'd want their powers depicted on screen.

First up is Sue

Movement

Something I've been thinking about is the way that they she should move when using her powers.

Like when Sue projects her force-fields it should be a bit more dynamic than just standing in place with her hands out. I was thinking that they should take inspiration from the earth bending from the Avatar series when it comes to attacks. Sue creates solid constructs of all shapes and sizes, the way earth benders move in that show is very solid and is a great way to show that what they're effecting are solid objects.



Now she shouldn't move exactly like them, but movements and gestures would go a long way. Part of what works for me with Scarlet Witch and Dr Strange are the ways they move to show their powers. Sue should move in a different way to them, more solid movements and less jazz hands, but they show that movement is important to sell the powers.

Sue should also be able to fly via the force-field disc. Don't have to go into more detail than that.

Appearance

Sue's force-fields should look clear like glass and not that blue energy in Fant4stic. They are meant to be invisible, not this bright blue energy, and to help convey that they should not be visible to the audience at times. Say for a fight she may make the motions of an attack and we see her opponent react to being hit by them, but we don't actually see them. Or we see her block something without seeing the force-field. Like this:

The constructs she makes should be more complex than the basic sphere that surrounds her. She can make them any shape she wants and is only limited by her imagination, which means she is only limited by the writers imagination. Get creative!

Let her fight!

She is meant to be the most powerful member of the team yet in all the Fox films she barely fights. Let her kick ass and show why she is considered the most powerful member.
You can have some amazing action scenes with Sue.

This has mainly been about her force-fields as invisibility is easy to get right.

I'll do ones for the other members some other time.

I like this. I think sue should show a display of martial arts, I'd love a little exposition about how learning the arts helps her find her center and balance and helped her control her abilities. I also like the idea of her firing force bolts and putting up shields while also having a graceful flowy style of martial art fighting.

 

[Detective Conan]

Crimz, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up firebending as a reference to how Johnny should use his flame abilities in combat considering you previously brought up another Avatar reference for how Sue should move with her abilities with Earthbending.

 

[Crimz]

Crimz, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up firebending as a reference to how Johnny should use his flame abilities in combat considering you previously brought up another Avatar reference for how Sue should move with her abilities with Earthbending.

I didn't want Johnny to have a style in the way he moves because he's not really the type, plus it would be difficult to mix it with his flying. I think the way the characters move should be a visual aid that enhances the storytelling.

Sue's movements are more defined and controlled because that's how her powers work. They are all about concentration and control, she has to continuously focus and imagine the constructs she makes otherwise they cease to exist. Plus every time they are hit she feels the feedback which means she needs a lot of mental fortitude. Her movements when creating force-fields should reflect this.

Johnny on the other hand is all about power and hitting things hard and fast, giving him a defined style takes away from this. The uncontrolled pure firepower way he fights matches his personality and the way his powers work. When you are living flame and control fire you are naturally destructive and don't really need refined movement. You'd just spam your biggest and most powerful attacks with somewhat reckless abandon.

Basically, Johnny having no form shows his immaturity and hothead attitude while Sue having a martial art form as a base shows her control and focus.

Also, this could change throughout the franchise. In the first film he's reckless and without discipline, but he can become more controlled over time. It would be a nice visual way to show his growth throughout the franchise.

 

[BeserkerHilf]

Regarding the race-bending that was brought up before, given the F4's long and rough road to the MCU, especially in the context of F42015, I would prefer if they just gave us an relatively faithful adaptation.

 

[Crimz]

It's time for Aunt Petunia's favorite nephew.

Movement

For Ben the way the actor moves and using body language is the most important to get right. He will likely be mocap and you have to believe a big orange rock monster is really there.
When going about his daily life and not fighting something he should be hunched as it's a visual way of showing his discomfort with his looks. He should look down most of the time while walking like he wants to hide away, at least for the first film.
That should change when things get more action-oriented as that's when Ben feels most comfortable. That's when he's upright, chest out and ready to kick ass.
The way the actor has to convey the size and weight of Ben when he moves, he should walk a bit slower than normal and each step should carry weight. When fighting Ben should be surprisingly fast for his size.

Appearance

This is the thing that no film has gotten right and may be the biggest challenge.
The face needs that big brow, small nose, and jutting jaw. That is the template that has to be used and there may be slight changes when translating that to live action, but not too much.

Ben's height is up for artistic interpretation as sometimes he towers over the other three, while other times he's slightly shorter than Reed. One thing that has to stay the same is that he is a lot wider and broader than a normal human. He needs to be imposing whether tall or average height.

See how much bigger he is here than the other heroes

What I always think the films have never gotten to look right is his rocky hide. While Trank's version did look rocky thanks to special effects, it did not look orange enough. We know Marvel can get the rocky look right as we've seen with Korg in Thor: Ragnarok. We also know that rocks can look the right shade of orange in nature, just look at the Grand Canyon if they need a template.

It looks like Ben's skin if you zo

It shouldn't be too hard to get his look right.

How he fights

Ben should be the most experienced and most trained fighter on the team. He's been fighting all his life and was combat trained while in the air force. All of that training added to his superpowers makes Ben incredibly scary to fight against. That training is what should lessen the gap between him and Hulk when they fight (it has to happen). I see Ben's preferred fighting style to be boxing, but he has a lot more in his arsenal thanks to his time in the military.

Marvel has all the building blocks to get Ben right when you look at other characters. You add Hulk, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Korg, and the Grand Canyon. You'll get a pretty decent blueprint for Ben at least physically from these.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Movement

For Ben the way the actor moves and using body language is the most important to get right. He will likely be mocap and you have to believe a big orange rock monster is really there.
When going about his daily life and not fighting something he should be hunched as it's a visual way of showing his discomfort with his looks. He should look down most of the time while walking like he wants to hide away, at least for the first film.
That should change when things get more action-oriented as that's when Ben feels most comfortable. That's when he's upright, chest out and ready to kick ass.
The way the actor has to convey the size and weight of Ben when he moves, he should walk a bit slower than normal and each step should carry weight. When fighting Ben should be surprisingly fast for his size.

This is tricky because the natural tendency, and audience expectation would be to have him move slowly since he is large and heavy. But while he might weigh 5 times as much as a normal man, he has 100 times the strength. So his limbs have almost no mass to him and he should be able to move very quickly and easily.

And Ben's movement was one of the biggest problems of the 2005 and 2007 films. Chiklis had the strength of a normal man, but 100 lbs of latex bogging him down, so he moved very awkwardly and didn't show the athletic ability Ben should have.

Kirby showed Ben as very dynamic with him charging and lunging and punching, and I'm hoping to see them put that kind of movement on film.

For all the flaws of Fant4stic, there were moments (such as the scene in the forest when Ben tried to punch Reed) in which he showed the strength and speed I'm hoping to see.

 

[Crimz]

This is tricky because the natural tendency, and audience expectation would be to have him move slowly since he is large and heavy. But while he might weigh 5 times as much as a normal man, he has 100 times the strength. So his limbs have almost no mass to him and he should be able to move very quickly and easily.

And Ben's movement was one of the biggest problems of the 2005 and 2007 films. Chiklis had the strength of a normal man, but 100 lbs of latex bogging him down, so he moved very awkwardly and didn't show the athletic ability Ben should have.

Kirby showed Ben as very dynamic with him charging and lunging and punching, and I'm hoping to see them put that kind of movement on film.

For all the flaws of Fant4stic, there were moments (such as the scene in the forest when Ben tried to punch Reed) in which he showed the strength and speed I'm hoping to see.

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As I said I think he should be slower when walking normally just to help show how heavy he is. Not the awkward way Chiklis moved in that bad suit, just slightly slower than normal people and very heavy footed. He's a big guy and the way he moves should show this, but I said when fighting he should be surprisingly fast. I was thinking of the first time he fought Hulk, one of his advantages is that he's faster than him.

That's pretty impressive because Hulk is definitely not slow. Just look at him facing Iron Man in the Hulkbuster.



Ben would only be slightly slower than normal people when not in a combat situation to better sell how heavy he is. But when it comes time to fight or when he has to run he'll be faster than most humans. It would also surprise audiences as they wouldn't be prepared for how fast Ben really is. It would be really cool to subvert expectations. This paired with his combat training and experience makes him terrifying and one of the very few heroes that can really go toe to toe with Hulk.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I would hope that an MCU Ben would look like he'd give Hulk a run for his money in a throwdown, however they choose to represent that.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I feel like the thing by size comparison may not look like he'd give the hulk a run for his money but he's tough, strong enough to go toe to toe but not win. But more importantly strong enough withstand the damage hulk usually deals.

 

[Silvermoth]

Regarding the race-bending that was brought up before, given the F4's long and rough road to the MCU, especially in the context of F42015, I would prefer if they just gave us an relatively faithful adaptation.

Right just for that, I’m racebending the lot of them

Mr fantastic - rick yune


Invisible woman - Constance Wu
[url=https://ibb.co/kBvtJe]

Human torch - Ludi Lin
[url=https://imgbb.com/]

The thing - Tae-Wun Suk
[url=https://imgbb.com/]

I would hope that an MCU Ben would look like he'd give Hulk a run for his money in a throwdown, however they choose to represent that.

I would like him to just be slightly smaller. The thing is based on the Jewish myth of the golem who had the strength of ten men I think it was whereas the hulk is considerably stronger than that. When the thing meets the hulk he should look at him and be like “wow so at least I didn’t go full monster”[/url][/url][/url]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Right just for that, I’m racebending the lot of them

Mr fantastic - rick yune


Invisible woman - Constance Wu


Human torch - Ludi Lin


The thing - Tae-Wun Suk





I would like him to just be slightly smaller. The thing is based on the Jewish myth of the golem who had the strength of ten men I think it was whereas the hulk is considerably stronger than that. When the thing meets the hulk he should look at him and be like “wow so at least I didn’t go full monster”

There's a story from Hulk #365 Where an at the time cured Ben Grimm and the then intelligent if surly Gray Hulk sit down at a bar and go over their relationship. It's good stuff from Peter David's legendary run on Hulk.

I can't find any panels save one but the synopsis gets it across okay:

Hulk goes to a bar where Ben Grimm is stewing over their plans to save the Hulk. The Hulk orders a milk and sits down next to the man who used to be the Thing and the two begin talking. The Hulk makes Ben realizes that the only one who held a grudge between the two of them over the years was Grimm himself. The Hulk then makes Ben remember their first encounter, pointing out how everyone assumed that the Hulk was responsible for wrecking devices around the base when it was a spy named the Wrecker. This makes Ben Grimm point out that the Hulk attacked him because the gamma-spawned brute was envious of everything he had as the Thing, despite the fact that he was a monster. The Hulk counters by saying that the difference between him and Ben when he was the Thing was this: That the Hulk never wasted his time wishing he wasn't a monster and the Thing was envious of his confidence and strength. Before he leaves the bar, the Hulk tells Ben that all the times he let the Thing win in a fight, the Hulk was going easy on him.

 

[Crimz]

Right just for that, I’m racebending the lot of them

Mr fantastic - rick yune


Invisible woman - Constance Wu


Human torch - Ludi Lin


The thing - Tae-Wun Suk





I would like him to just be slightly smaller. The thing is based on the Jewish myth of the golem who had the strength of ten men I think it was whereas the hulk is considerably stronger than that. When the thing meets the hulk he should look at him and be like “wow so at least I didn’t go full monster”

The only one who shouldn't be changed is Ben as his blue eyes and Jewish heritage are important. His blue eyes are important because it's the only thing about him that still looks human, him being Jewish goes without saying.

However, he could always be Israeli. Still Jewish and still with blue eyes.

Reed, Sue, and Johnny can be any race (with Sue and Johnny being the same as they're siblings). My only thing is to get the hair like their comic counterparts. Reed needs to have the dark hair with graying temples, Sue and Johnny should be blond no matter what race they go for. Time to bring out the hair dye!

Using one of your fancasts, here is Constance Wu with blonde hair and she looks great:

My only issue with your cast is Johnny and Ben. Johnny is because the actor is too old and Ben needs to be Jewish.

 

[Marvel united]

Reed, Sue and Johnny should be the race they've been for the past 50+ years. No reason to change them

 

[Crimz]

Reed, Sue and Johnny should be the race they've been for the past 50+ years. No reason to change them

It's an adaptation, things are bound to be changed. There are worse things to change than the character's race, the previous Fantastic Four attempts have proved that.

This will always be down to personal preference, those on either side of the topic will never agree. Personally, I'd be OK if there were any racial changes to the characters besides Ben as he is the only one who's heritage is an important part of the character.
As long as the Storm's hair is dyed blond and Reed's temples are grey, I'm good.

 

[Marvel united]

It's an adaptation, things are bound to be changed. There are worse things to change than the character's race, the previous Fantastic Four attempts have proved that.

This will always be down to personal preference, those on either side of the topic will never agree. Personally, I'd be OK if there were any racial changes to the characters besides Ben as he is the only one who's heritage is an important part of the character.
As long as the Storm's hair is dyed blond and Reed's temples are grey, I'm good.

I'm not okay with that. Because I think the Iconography of these characters should remain intact. This basically comes down to "Yeah but why not?" Change for the sake of change. Let's focus on getting the property right for the FIRST time before we start advocating for their races to change. Just give us a faithful adaptation for once