Old MCU Fantastic Four Discussion Thread

[DawnWarrior]

Will Smith is too old and they can't afford him for that many film appearances. They just got finished with RDJ and his salary got high enough that he could buy his own medium-size country.

 

[terry78]

Reed should be in his late 30s or early 40s while Sue is late 20s. No need to overthink it. Basically every dude Jennifer Lawrence has dated.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Are you saying you want an actual ethnic white Jewish actor in the role as opposed to another gentile playing the role in any race, but what of the mixed raced black people who are have ethnic Jewish ancestry?

Generally speaking, I don't like fixating on race and ethnicity - because it typically doesn't have anything to do with the character. For example, what's Reeds race/ethnicity? Whatever. It's never been discussed in the comics, so it's a blank slate.

In the case of a character like Black Panther or Luke Cage race and ethnicity are inseparable from who the character is. But in those cases, while we basically have to have someone with with brown skin, the actor doesn't have to have the background, just the physical appearance that makes it possible to have that background.

Idris Elba didn't grow up in Harlem, but he could play someone who did.

If they can find a Jewish actor who grew up in New York to play Ben Grimm, great! But to be consistent with the idea that Idris Elba could play Luke Cage, I have to allow someone who looks like they could be someone who grew up in a Jewish community in New York. So you'd want someone with a Mediterranean look. They could be Jewish or Greek or Italian etc. But I'd cross someone like Jamie Bell off the list.

 

[Web-Head]

 

[fan4stic]

It bothered me last year (as I'm sure many will remember) but I've come around to the idea. I do think Reed with the position/importance he has is a good way for Marvel to lead with a diverse casting

Especially if the movie is set in 2023-2024. Ben being black would be redundant/pointless and not count for meaningful rep

To me, Oscar Isaac has a more interesting dynamic to him that I think would be wasted on the Reed character. It's why I'd like him for Doom. I may not lean to race changing, but I could see Henry Golding, if race changing must be done, as more fitting. To me, he's got a heroic looking face.

I think, looks wise, he and the Dianna Agron Sue fancast the fancast I put out, would look like a pretty couple.

Again, not into race changing, and my preferred concept for the FF is starting them off in the 60's.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Its funny I was just talking with someone the other day about the introduction if the FF and suggested that Black Panther 2 would kind of be a great entry point for them. It also would be great parallel to the comics.

 

[Dark Raven]

Generally speaking, I don't like fixating on race and ethnicity - because it typically doesn't have anything to do with the character. For example, what's Reeds race/ethnicity? Whatever. It's never been discussed in the comics, so it's a blank slate.

In the case of a character like Black Panther or Luke Cage race and ethnicity are inseparable from who the character is. But in those cases, while we basically have to have someone with with brown skin, the actor doesn't have to have the background, just the physical appearance that makes it possible to have that background.

Idris Elba didn't grow up in Harlem, but he could play someone who did.

If they can find a Jewish actor who grew up in New York to play Ben Grimm, great! But to be consistent with the idea that Idris Elba could play Luke Cage, I have to allow someone who looks like they could be someone who grew up in a Jewish community in New York. So you'd want someone with a Mediterranean look. They could be Jewish or Greek or Italian etc. But I'd cross someone like Jamie Bell off the list.

What about Nick Fury, now that he's played by Samuel L Jackson, and usually depicted that way in modern comics? Has ethnicity now become part of his character, or is he still a blank slate? If he were played by a white person in a reboot, or a different race, would people argue that Fury's race and ethnicity is inseparable from who he is as a character?

And let's say you did answer that Fury still is a blank slate. What if Marvel, after giving him Jackson's appearance, did add certain ethnic traits to him? Would that now become inseparable?

I ask this because if Reed were now played by a black person and portrayed that way in comics, would people say it's impossible in future to go back to a non-black actor for the character?

Do people think that of MJ, for example (who isn't even Mary Jane but Michelle Jones)?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What about Nick Fury, now that he's played by Samuel L Jackson, and usually depicted that way in modern comics? Has ethnicity now become part of his character, or is he still a blank slate? If he were played by a white person in a reboot, or a different race, would people argue that Fury's race and ethnicity is inseparable from who he is as a character?

And let's say you did answer that Fury still is a blank slate. What if Marvel, after giving him Jackson's appearance, did add certain ethnic traits to him? Would that now become inseparable?

I ask this because if Reed were now played by a black person and portrayed that way in comics, would people say it's impossible in future to go back to a non-black actor for the character?

Do people think that of MJ, for example (who isn't even Mary Jane but Michelle Jones)?

In my opinion (and I can only offer my opinion) he could easily be played by a white guy in a future iteration.

That's not just because he has been portrayed as white previously, but because in his case, his race isn't part of who he is.

I gave the examples of Luke Cage (a character who grew up in Harlem and is defined by that) and Black Panther (an African king).

Just because Fury was played by SLJ doesn't make him black forevermore.

And let's drive it home with an example. We're recasting Nick Fury and here are your two choices: Jon Bernthal or Cuba Gooding Jr. Would anyone in their right mind argue Cuba Gooding Jr. should get it?

 

[Dark Raven]

In my opinion (and I can only offer my opinion) he could easily be played by a white guy in a future iteration.

That's not just because he has been portrayed as white previously, but because in his case, his race isn't part of who he is.

I gave the examples of Luke Cage (a character who grew up in Harlem and is defined by that) and Black Panther (an African king).

Just because Fury was played by SLJ doesn't make him black forevermore.

And let's drive it home with an example. We're recasting Nick Fury and here are your two choices: Jon Bernthal or Cuba Gooding Jr. Would anyone in their right mind argue Cuba Gooding Jr. should get it?

Well Cuba Gooding Jr has sexual assault allegations against him from 22 women. But that doesn't mean that Bernthal is still right for the role either by default. Not that Cuba is suitable himself, but to make it equal you'd have to pit Cuba Gooding Jr against someone like Kevin Spacey, or two actors who don't have any allegations at all.

 

[bcztheinternet]

Honestly, I think Marvel should cast a POC for Reed. They took away most of T'Challa's brains and gave them to Shuri (which was fine, because Shuri was great in the movie) So right now the smartest men in the MCU are all white (Tony, Bruce, Peter, Hank, etc.). While they don't HAVE to cast a POC, I think it would be a great way to show more diversity in the science field.

 

[bcztheinternet]

if they keep him white tho... chris pine?

 

[Dark Raven]

Chris Pine has too much Johnny Storm- like cockiness. He could've made a good Johnny years ago when he was much younger. If you make Reed like that, then inevitably Johnny would suffer and probably end up more of a straight man just like Hawkeye did or even War Machine to Tony Stark.

 

[Docker2.0]

But I do think that's how they and the mutants will be introduced. Dr Strange into the multiverse with Wanda is going to end up merging universes and bring them all together. So I don't think it's far off but I just don't really like it honestly.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Well for me,race, gender, and sexuality are huge parts of their character makeup. call me,ol' fashioned,but I want Marvel to leave the F4 and,Doom alone from,any of that make them like the comics you know the,blueprint that has worked for 60 years. That is what I love that is what I want to,see and any,deviation,will,taint for me the experience. They can go full switch with whatever with the X-men since Marvel has always had social issues with mutants...give me a perfect comic look, character adapted material for this.

 

[Detective Conan]

I want Miles Teller to come back as I thought he was perfect casting for the character. He was always way better casting than just casting that overrated pretty boy, John Hamm. @Willie Lumpkin and @Spider-Fan would agree with me.

Joking aside, I want Miles Teller to come back to play the evil version counterpart to The main MCU Reed in a movie one day. Ultimate Reed, which Teller’s version is based on, eventually turns evil and becomes the Maker.

 

[Spider-Fan]

 

[Detective Conan]

You don’t want to see Miles Teller come back to a role he was born to play? He was every bit as good casting as Charlie Cox as Daredevil, but you just don’t want to admit it.

 

[Dark Raven]

You don’t want to see Miles Teller come back to a role he was born to play? He was every bit as good casting as Charlie Cox as Daredevil, but you just don’t want to admit it.

Miles Teller can come back as DD as well.

And Josh Trank can come back with DD moobs.

 

[Silvermoth]

I never got miles teller. He always came off as smarmy

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I’d take Chris Pine as Reed.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I want Miles Teller to come back as I thought he was perfect casting for the character. He was always way better casting than just casting that overrated pretty boy, John Hamm. @Willie Lumpkin and @Spider-Fan would agree with me.

Joking aside, I want Miles Teller to come back to play the evil version counterpart to The main MCU Reed in a movie one day. Ultimate Reed, which Teller’s version is based on, eventually turns evil and becomes the Maker.



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I'd just rather never see The Maker, but if they did it that way, I could live with it.

 

[Dark Raven]

If he were much younger, I would've liked Bruce Greenwood as Reed. In Star Trek 09, he played Captain Pike. He's more Reed-like than Chris Pine.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well for me,race, gender, and sexuality are huge parts of their character makeup. call me,ol' fashioned,but I want Marvel to leave the F4 and,Doom alone from,any of that make them like the comics you know the,blueprint that has worked for 60 years. That is what I love that is what I want to,see and any,deviation,will,taint for me the experience. They can go full switch with whatever with the X-men since Marvel has always had social issues with mutants...give me a perfect comic look, character adapted material for this.

Ideally, I'd like to see them look like they did in the comics, but if the studio and fans insist on mixing things up, I'm okay and won't fight that like I did a lot of more frustrating changes Fox has made over the years.

If they nail the FF in every other way and change the race of a couple characters, I'll be thrilled.

But with the the characters they're currently developing and the X-Characters we're expecting to see, I don't know if there's any real reason for affirmative action with the FF. A Jewish Ben Grimm, Native American Wyatt Wingfoot and Romani Doom will add some diversity without changing anything, and we should have some white characters in the MCU. No white characters would be as unrepresentative of our country as all white characters.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If he were much younger, I would've liked Bruce Greenwood as Reed. In Star Trek 09, he played Captain Pike. He's more Reed-like than Chris Pine.

I'd agree with that. Pine would almost be too similar to RDJ's Tony Stark - which obviously worked, but I think Reed should be a little more stiff and humorless. Johnny and Ben can add the fun.

 

[Web-Head]

I'd rather see Pine as Reed than Krasinski, but neither of them would exactly "excite" me. Pine would a little bit, but only because he's a fantastic actor and the MCU having all 4 "Chrisses" would be great.