Prometheus - Part 6

[flickchick85]

So far it sounds like a good movie that could have been a great one. I can certainly live with that, but I'm gonna go ahead and start tempering my expectations now.

 

[Octoberist]

As long as the reviews are good that's fine with me! At least it's not a diaster!

 

[craigdbfan]

I'm still incredibly juiced for this. Somehow the "ok" reviews haven't lowered my expectations in the least.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Well my hopes have gone down from "Amazing" to "Great".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

As long as the reviews are good that's fine with me! At least it's not a diaster!

But it does not look good for the "This will be the bestest thing ever" crowd on the net. The hype around here was a bit ridiculous. It makes it easier for the haters.

 

[Octoberist]

That's their fault, isn't it? The internet is so circular.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I was a bit too hyped up I think. My hype has faded away a lot now so that should ease the pain

 

[Mandalore464]

The hype was justified I think. I certainly am in no way disappointed.

I thought the hype was all about Ridley's mastery in handling science-fiction visually and "mood-wise". I think no one, and I mean no one, as of today, is able to do SF like this guy does. He really is the best at it. He would have made Avatar enjoyable. And that's saying something.

Or did anyone really expect to hear a plausible theory on how humanity came into being?

It's a sci-fi flick, and a damn good one at that. It ticks all the boxes in my book. Yes, it has a certain amount of clichés, but what film doesn't? And yes, it didn't give us enough answers, but only because they saved them for another one.

I say "bring it on!"

 

[Roose Bolton]

How well were the Engineers handled in your opinion Mandalore?

 

[Mandalore464]

It's hard to come up with a definitive answer to that right now cause a/ I'm still on a high from the showing last night and b/ there's still an awful lot of mystery surrounding them.

In case you want a couple of spoilers :

Spoiler

We don't know where they're from or what they originally wanted. We don't know what their intentions were in creating us, nor why the hell they did a complete 180 and then decided we had to be wiped out.

But as far as this one film goes, I think they served their purpose. They are only meant to be the superior threat that also parallels humanity in that they create weapons they ultimately cannot control and end up destroying themselves.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have handled them differently (I sure would have given a little more answers to the audience), but they weren't poorly handled. They sure raise more questions than they answer.

Edit : Actually now that I consider it, I'm reading lots and lots of comments about how the Engineers were handled and whether Scott did them justice or not, so I have to ask : were there some already existing material regarding those Engineers in the Alien mythology? Because it feels like a lot of people had high expectations when it came to them, but to me they were nothing more than a dead body in the first Alien... Did I miss something?

 

[Gianakin_]

Would you call this film a sequel-baiter Mandalore? As in, intentionally not completing the story to leave stuff for a sequel?

 

[Mandalore464]

Definitely.

Some people will say that the questions it raised are also intended to convey the film's theme that humans should not know everything cause it's ultimately bad for them, but that's bullc....

Spoiler

If the heroine wasn't killed off, that's because they want to expand on her fate in a future installment. Her survival is otherwise useless to the story.

 

[georgec]

Variety and THR reviews:

SPOILERS

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117947665/
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/re...ott-charlize-theron-michael-fassbender-330414

They're positive for the most part, but both say the film is bogged down by blatant sequel bait and lazy storytelling.

Sequel baiting, lazy storytelling, drawing out plot points? I would never expect that from Damon Lindelof.

 

[Gianakin_]

I see, thank you. It's the first thing that takes down my excitement a bit. For all the crap Alien was given, it was a complete story. Of course, the very existence of Prometheus is a testament that people craved to know about the Space Jockey and the whole story behind that set piece. But at least it was a complete story. Is the story of the crew at least completed?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well my hopes have gone down from "Amazing" to "Great".

It's hard to come up with a definitive answer to that right now cause a/ I'm still on a high from the showing last night and b/ there's still an awful lot of mystery surrounding them.

In case you want a couple of spoilers :

Spoiler

We don't know where they're from or what they originally wanted. We don't know what their intentions were in creating us, nor why the hell they did a complete 180 and then decided we had to be wiped out.

But as far as this one film goes, I think they served their purpose. They are only meant to be the superior threat that also parallels humanity in that they create weapons they ultimately cannot control and end up destroying themselves.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have handled them differently (I sure would have given a little more answers to the audience), but they weren't poorly handled. They sure raise more questions than they answer.

Edit : Actually now that I consider it, I'm reading lots and lots of comments about how the Engineers were handled and whether Scott did them justice or not, so I have to ask : were there some already existing material regarding those Engineers in the Alien mythology? Because it feels like a lot of people had high expectations when it came to them, but to me they were nothing more than a dead body in the first Alien... Did I miss something?

Thanks, that's certainly got my interest piqued.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The hype was justified I think. I certainly am in no way disappointed.

I thought the hype was all about Ridley's mastery in handling science-fiction visually and "mood-wise". I think no one, and I mean no one, as of today, is able to do SF like this guy does. He really is the best at it. He would have made Avatar enjoyable. And that's saying something.

Or did anyone really expect to hear a plausible theory on how humanity came into being?

It's a sci-fi flick, and a damn good one at that. It ticks all the boxes in my book. Yes, it has a certain amount of clichés, but what film doesn't? And yes, it didn't give us enough answers, but only because they saved them for another one.

I say "bring it on!"

That sounds a bit ridiculous. Not a fan of "saving things for later", if the story doesn't dictate as such.

Also think it is a bit disingenuous to say no one can do sci-fi like Scott now. District 9, Inception, Never Let Me Go, Moon, Chronicle, and Raise of the Planet of the Apes are all quite recent.

 

[Gianakin_]

Apart from Never Let Me Go and Chronicle, I agree, Scott isn't the only one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Definitely.

Some people will say that the questions it raised are also intended to convey the film's theme that humans should not know everything cause it's ultimately bad for them, but that's bullc....

Spoiler

If the heroine wasn't killed off, that's because they want to expand on her fate in a future installment. Her survival is otherwise useless to the story.

Question. How much like a retelling of Alien does it feel? I can't shake it and if the sequel baiting is what I think it is, I fear this will feel too much like Alien redux.

Apart from Never Let Me Go and Chronicle, I agree, Scott isn't the only one.

Never Let Me Go isn't your typical sci-fi, but it is one beautiful story in terms of the visual storytelling and mood.

I can see where you are coming from on Chronicle.

 

[Gianakin_]

Never Let Me Go isn't your typical sci-fi, but it is one beautiful story in terms of the visual storytelling and mood.

I won't disagree. But it's because of it not being typical that it's a bit tricky to have it there with the others.

I can see where you are coming from on Chronicle.

Right, that added absolutely nothing to the genre table. It used a technique that's now a fad to tell a story that belongs to a genre that's also a fad. Not knocking it as a movie on its own (though I don't get all the high praise), but yeah, definitely an odd one out next to movies like D9 or Moon.

 

[Mandalore464]

That sounds a bit ridiculous. Not a fan of "saving things for later", if the story doesn't dictate as such.

Well, like I said, it is "sequel-baiting". But the problem is not that it has loose ends. One could argue that highly praised films like Star Wars : ANH or The Dark Knight, had opened endings, that made us all want to know more about the fate of certain characters. So I wouldn't hold that against Prometheus.

What I would though, is the fact that the answer to the main question the film raises ("Where are we from?") is not even hinted at decently. All we learn is that [BLACKOUT]we come from the Engineers[/BLACKOUT], and that's in the very first scene of the film. I would have enjoyed if they had gone just a little bit farther, but instead it's like they chose to turn the main question into : "Is it really a good thing to know?"

Also think it is a bit disingenuous to say no one can do sci-fi like Scott now. District 9, Inception, Never Let Me Go, Moon, Chronicle, and Raise of the Planet of the Apes are all quite recent.

That is true and I should have said "none of the big names". Moon and District 9 were amazing, but their directors were newcomers at the time they came out, and in the case of Duncan Jones, I think he hasn't been able to reiterate the exploit with his later films (Source Code. Meh.)

Didn't care for Chronicle, but that's a matter of taste. Anyway, Scott is the only one that gets me every time. But I'm a very visual guy, and he likes to focus on giving breathtaking images to his audience, so that works for me.

Question. How much like a retelling of Alien does it feel?.

If we look at the characters. A LOT. And I'm pretty sure you could compare Rapace's ending monologue with Sigourney's from the first Alien, and find out there is only a two-word difference.

There are also pretty evident parallels, like [BLACKOUT]a crisis scene involving a character not wanting the team to come back into the ship after one of its member becomes infected[/BLACKOUT].

George Lucas would say that good sagas are like poetry, its elements rhyme with each other... I know it's an easy way out, but for all the similarities between Prometheus and Alien, I wasn't bothered in the slightest, because the film has something else to say, something completely different. Ultimately, that's what matters.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I won't disagree. But it's because of it not being typical that it's a bit tricky to have it there with the others.



Right, that added absolutely nothing to the genre table. It used a technique that's now a fad to tell a story that belongs to a genre that's also a fad. Not saying I'm knocking it (though I don't get all the high praise), but yeah, definitely an odd one out next to movies like D9 or Moon.

I wasn't really talking about adding something new the genre, but I can see your point.

Chronicle worked for me because it seemed to get right what all the other films of its ilk got wrong. In a way it was like Avengers or Batman Begins (not as good mind you, but in terms of doing things right it is an apt comparison), as opposed to say TDK. District 9 is TDK.

 

[Gianakin_]

I wasn't really talking about adding something new the genre, but I can see your point.

Chronicle worked for me because it seemed to get right what all the other films of its ilk got wrong. In a way it was like Avengers or Batman Begins (not as good mind you, but in terms of doing things right it is an apt comparison), as opposed to say TDK. District 9 is TDK.

Fair enough. I don't know if Trask didn't have enough faith in the idea or if it was the only way to convey his story properly with a small budget, but the movie was hurt by the "found foutage" technique. The idea was shaping up to achieve what Unbreakable failed to do.

 

[Gianakin_]

Well, like I said, it is "sequel-baiting". But the problem is not that it has loose ends. One could argue that highly praised films like Star Wars : ANH or The Dark Knight, had opened endings, that made us all want to know more about the fate of certain characters. So I wouldn't hold that against Prometheus.

So, what cliffhanger would you compare it with? A TDK/ESB one? A ANH one? or a BTTF2/Matrix 2 one?

What I would though, is the fact that the answer to the main question the film raises ("Where are we from?") is not even hinted at decently. All we learn is that [BLACKOUT]we come from the Engineers[/BLACKOUT], and that's in the very first scene of the film. I would have enjoyed if they had gone just a little bit farther, but instead it's like they chose to turn the main question into : "Is it really a good thing to know?"

That's not a bad way to approach the question, though. I'll take it it was done well in that regard?

If we look at the characters. A LOT. And I'm pretty sure you could compare Rapace's ending monologue with Sigourney's from the first Alien, and find out there is only a two-word difference.

George Lucas would say that good sagas are like poetry, its elements rhyme with each other... I know it's an easy way out, but for all the similarities between Prometheus and Alien, I wasn't bothered in the slightest, because the film has something else to say, something completely different. Ultimately, that's what matters.

That doesn't sound too bad. One of my favorite elements of the SW saga is the mirrored scenes or lines or whatever. Since it took it somewhere else, I'm gonna go ahead and say it'll be something to look forward to next Thursday.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, like I said, it is "sequel-baiting". But the problem is not that it has loose ends. One could argue that highly praised films like Star Wars : ANH or The Dark Knight, had opened endings, that made us all want to know more about the fate of certain characters. So I wouldn't hold that against Prometheus.

What I would though, is the fact that the answer to the main question the film raises ("Where are we from?") is not even hinted at decently. All we learn is that [BLACKOUT]we come from the Engineers[/BLACKOUT], and that's in the very first scene of the film. I would have enjoyed if they had gone just a little bit farther, but instead it's like they chose to turn the main question into : "Is it really a good thing to know?"

It is hard for me to say, though I don't quite understand the comparison to Star Wars and TDK. Each film told a complete story which didn't hinge on another film being made. Not all story threads were tied up to be sure, but there is resolution.

When I think sequel baiting I think Matrix Reloaded.

That is true and I should have said "none of the big names". Moon and District 9 were amazing, but their directors were newcomers at the time they came out, and in the case of Duncan Jones, I think he hasn't been able to reiterate the exploit with his later films (Source Code. Meh.)

Didn't care for Chronicle, but that's a matter of taste. Anyway, Scott is the only one that gets me every time. But I'm a very visual guy, and he likes to focus on giving breathtaking images to his audience, so that works for me.

Nolan isn't a big name, or do you just not like him? t:

If we look at the characters. A LOT. And I'm pretty sure you could compare Rapace's ending monologue with Sigourney's from the first Alien, and find out there is only a two-word difference.

There are also pretty evident parallels, like [BLACKOUT]a crisis scene involving a character not wanting the team to come back into the ship after one of its member becomes infected[/BLACKOUT].

George Lucas would say that good sagas are like poetry, its elements rhyme with each other... I know it's an easy way out, but for all the similarities between Prometheus and Alien, I wasn't bothered in the slightest, because the film has something else to say, something completely different. Ultimately, that's what matters.

Considering my disillusionment with Lucas these day, I am not sure those words really bring me comfort. One thing that really bothered me about the prequels is that it was clear he didn't have many new ideas to bring to the table.

 

[Mandalore464]

So, what cliffhanger would you compare it with? A TDK/ESB one? A ANH one? or a BTTF2/Matrix 2 one?

Definitely not a TDK one because the main character's arcs came full circle in it : the Joker was taken away, Dent was dead. The only thing opened about it was tto have Batman taking the fall for Dent and running away from the police, that left you with that "That can't possibly be the end of it" look on your face.

Not an ESB one either, because in the end there are no big revelations that call for a sequel. Quite the opposite in fact. You want a sequel, because there were no big revelations, and you wanted one.

That's not a bad way to approach the question, though.

Maybe not but it's already been done. Maybe even overdone. The idea that men want to know too much and end up burning their wings in the process is way overused.

See, it's too safe to walk this route now. You have to take risks, maybe anger some people, but give us something to chew on. Just stating that a human-like civilization created us is not enough. Who created them? Why did they create us? etc etc... There are endless possibilities that could have been addressed, and raise more questions calling for a sequel in the process. Instead we are left with the initial question unanswered.

It is hard for me to say, though I don't quite understand the comparison to Star Wars and TDK. Each film told a complete story which didn't hinge on another film being made. Not all story threads were tied up to be sure, but there is resolution.

When I think sequel baiting I think Matrix Reloaded.

TDK left you with an unresolved situation : Batman saved the day by lying to the world. That can't be right. ANH left Vader floating away into space. I know that when I first saw it, I was really p-ed off that his fate wasn't addressed properly. In the same way, Prometheus offers resolution : [BLACKOUT]everybody dies, except for Rapace.[/BLACKOUT]. The problem is not the character arcs, or the storyline not coming full circle, but rather that the one big theme isn't remotely touched upon properly.

Nolan isn't a big name, or do you just not like him? t:

Ha! I do, but like Duncan Jones and Blomkamp, he only did one Sci-fi flick, so I won't compare him to Scott just yet. And to be honest, Inception, for all its brilliance, is not my kind of science fiction. It's more a techno-thriller that happens to be set in the future.

Considering my disillusionment with Lucas these day, I am not sure those words really bring me comfort. One thing that really bothered me about the prequels is that it was clear he didn't have many new ideas to bring to the table.

I can understand that.