Prometheus - Part 8

[DarthSkywalker]

For a layman of fiction, maybe.

There is a difference between leaving room for a story to continue and to basically holding back the vast majority and thus leaving the first film with little to no meat.

Think about what happens in this film.

Spoiler

Once they reach the moon they go back and forth from the ship a few time while philosophizing and resorting to bad horror film scenes.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think you never replied to my post where you asked someone to post one subtextual aspect of Prometheus and I replied with 12 of them, and had multiple people both publicly and privately compliment me for the post.

Where was this? I'll more then happily reply.

 

[Tony Stark]

I hope Prometheus has some good legs, because it sure had a disappointing open. I think having it the same weekend as Madagascar was a mistake, in fact this movie probably should have been released mid May with all the weak films there and it would have done better.

I love the film and hope Scott can continue his prequel movies. It's not every day that in a film series you can tap something fresh and new as this film did. It's tied to the Alien films, but other than that it really stands as it's own film.

 

[CConn]

There is a difference between leaving room for a story to continue and to basically holding back the vast majority and thus leaving the first film with little to no meat.

Think about what happens in this film.

Spoiler

Once they reach the moon they go back and forth from the ship a few time while philosophizing and resorting to bad horror film scenes.

Again, as I've said before, the movie is not plot-driven. Some works of fiction are plot-based, where you have a grand epic scale story, etc. and there's nothing wrong with that.

Other works of fiction merely use the plot as a backdrop for expanding on philosophical, sociological, or psychological examinations and progressions. There's works of fiction where the main character never even leaves their room. 12 Angry Men (not that it's anything like Prometheus obviously), was just about 12 guys arguing in a room, but it was about much more than just that, obviously.

Prometheus is just about a bunch of scientists exploring alien wreckage, but it's what transpires during that that makes it a worthwhile piece of fiction.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This could've worked, but I think I'd prefer an entire trilogy leading up to Alien, instead of just this one leading up to Alien and the other two doing its own thing.


In my opinion, they shouldn't have killed Two-Face, his final shot in the film should've been him in his hospital bed. The tacked on Two-Face scenes just bring the movie down so much on repeat viewings. Should've ended with Joker being captured and leaving Two-Face to be the big bad in the sequel, instead of a 15 minute scene where he just gets made to look like a *****. Killing villains is one of the worst things a superhero franchise can do imo.

You completely missed the story arc of Dent and TDK's story then. He can't live as Two-Face or all the good he has done is lost. Bruce understands this, which is why at the end he takes Dent's actions upon himself. The White Knight was lost, but in the end the Dark Knight saved his city.

 

[CConn]

Where was this? I'll more then happily reply.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=23478717&postcount=535

Pardon me, it was only 7.

 

[CConn]

I hope Prometheus has some good legs, because it sure had a disappointing open. I think having it the same weekend as Madagascar was a mistake, in fact this movie probably should have been released mid May with all the weak films there and it would have done better.

It like doubled Fox's expectations (granted, they were lowballing it), so unless it crashes and burns in subsequent weeks, a sequel should be fine.

 

[jmc]

There is a difference between leaving room for a story to continue and to basically holding back the vast majority and thus leaving the first film with little to no meat.

Think about what happens in this film.

Spoiler

Once they reach the moon they go back and forth from the ship a few time while philosophizing and resorting to bad horror film scenes.

Exactly. This film hits a certain level and then just flattens out all the way to the end. This film doesn't require repeated viewings.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Again, as I've said before, the movie is not plot-driven. Some works of fiction are plot-based, where you have a grand epic scale story, etc. and there's nothing wrong with that.

Other works of fiction merely use the plot as a backdrop for expanding on philosophical, sociological, or psychological examinations and progressions. There's works of fiction where the main character never even leaves their room. 12 Angry Men (not that it's anything like Prometheus obviously), was just about 12 guys arguing in a room, but it was about much more than just that, obviously.

Prometheus is just about a bunch of scientists exploring alien wreckage, but it's what transpires during that that makes it a worthwhile piece of fiction.

12 Angry Men has an intelligent script. This doesn't. Which you are ignoring. Ideas are nice, but it is the execution of the delivery of them in a film that counts. Who wants to watch a hollow film?

 

[Lighthouse]

Subtext does not automatically make a movie deep or interesting. Its not whats there, its what you do with it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Because they are saving that for #3.

And Harvey Dent's story was completely told. The ending was organic and fit the film perfectly.

I completely agree. Harvey's story was told. Two-Face's was barely touched upon. To the point that I really only considered him a shade of his comic counterpart. Again, I love TDK it's still my favorite comic film. But Two-Face (again, Two-Face, NOT Harvey Dent) is a villain that has tons of potential that was left untapped.

As a film however, TDK is great. The nitpick I'm bringing up is purely from a comic standpoint.

Also Darth I don't think that Janeks

Spoiler

analysis of the planet is uncanny. We see that the black goo turns people into weapons. It made sense. Didn't seem to come out of left field to me at all.

Also Liam_H:

Spoiler

I know. I also meant (but didn't say) that he could have easily made it the same planet.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I hope Prometheus has some good legs, because it sure had a disappointing open. I think having it the same weekend as Madagascar was a mistake, in fact this movie probably should have been released mid May with all the weak films there and it would have done better.

I love the film and hope Scott can continue his prequel movies. It's not every day that in a film series you can tap something fresh and new as this film did. It's tied to the Alien films, but other than that it really stands as it's own film.

50 million (141 million WW) is not a bad opening, especially considering the film was rated-R and was fighting off an established animated franchise.

Prometheus should make 300 million WW by the end of its run and DVD sales will probably boost the total (40-50 million).

 

[Infinity9999x]

12 Angry Men has an intelligent script. This doesn't. Which you are ignoring. Ideas are nice, but it is the execution of the delivery of them in a film that counts.

I thought the script was fine. Do I think it's a script like 12 Angry Men? No, I don't. 12 Angry Men was an incredibly successful play that was adapted into multiple film versions.

But I don't think this script was unintellligent. I thought they executed them fairly well. Obviously some of the ideas are going to be left unexplained because we're dealing with a subject that HAS no definite answer as far as we know.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

You completely missed the story arc of Dent and TDK's story then. He can't live as Two-Face or all the good he has done is lost. Bruce understands this, which is why at the end he takes Dent's actions upon himself. The White Knight was lost, but in the end the Dark Knight saved his city.

Everything you said could've taken place in a third movie, TDK didn't need that scene. What good did Dent really do in Gotham, take out a group of mobsters? Thats not going to save Gotham from the insane clowns, crazy dude who wears a sack on his a face, cat burglars, international criminals, and extremely buff dudes.

 

[Lighthouse]

This might be the only bad movie I really root for at the box office. It might mark a return of the R-rated sci-fi epics.

 

[Infinity9999x]

This might be the only bad movie I really root for at the box office. It might mark a return of the R-rated sci-fi epics.

I really wouldn't consider this a bad movie. I consider bad movies films like Green Lantern, X-men Origins: Wolverine, Max Payne, any Punnisher movie, Ghost Rider, and many more.

This film isn't anywhere close to movies I would consider bad.

 

[jmc]

I thought the script was fine. Do I think it's a script like 12 Angry Men? No, I don't. 12 Angry Men was an incredibly successful play that was adapted into multiple film versions.

But I don't think this script was unintellligent. I thought they executed them fairly well. Obviously some of the ideas are going to be left unexplained because we're dealing with a subject that HAS no definite answer as far as we know.

There's nothing wrong with having unanswered questions or ambiguity but the problem is this story handles a potentially heavy subject matter as if it were a pamphlet meaning you haven't got much to actually ponder about afterwards.

 

[CConn]

12 Angry Men has an intelligent script. This doesn't. Which you are ignoring.

I'm not ignoring it, I don't agree with it. Not one of you people who aren't fans of the movie have even broached the subject of why it wasn't subtextually well done.

Every complaint I've seen has been about the plot.

Ideas are nice, but it is the execution of the delivery of them in a film that counts. Who wants to watch a hollow film?

Again, I didn't find it hollow at all. For the reasons I listed in my other post.

Subtext does not automatically make a movie deep or interesting.

Subtext automatically makes it deep. They're synonymous terms. But you're right, it doesn't necessarily make it good.

Its not whats there, its what you do with it.

Then say why it wasn't done well. That doesn't have something to do with the plot. Say why David's storyarc wasn't compelling, or why Shaw's mix of science, religion, and fanaticism wasn't intriguing, or what the overall concept of man's creation means on a theological level isn't at very least interesting.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Everything you said could've taken place in a third movie, TDK didn't need that scene. What good did Dent really do in Gotham, take out a group of mobsters? Thats not going to save Gotham from the insane clowns, crazy dude who wears a sack on his a face, cat burglars, international criminals, and extremely buff dudes.

You severely missed the point of the 'White Knight' angle, and the entire ending then.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

To all the people mad about not getting answers, imagine how boring this thread would be if everything got answered

 

[Infinity9999x]

There's nothing wrong with having unanswered questions or ambiguity but the problem is this story handles a potentially heavy subject matter as if it were a pamphlet.

I didn't really get that feeling. I thought it addressed some of the questions but left the large strokes unanswered.

Spoiler

We find out the engineers created us. We know that for some reason they decided to abandon and possibly destroy us. We don't know the why for either, which is really the question that the characters (and the audience) really want to know.

I didn't feel that it was like a "pamphlet" as you put it.

 

[CConn]

I thought the script was fine. Do I think it's a script like 12 Angry Men? No, I don't. 12 Angry Men was an incredibly successful play that was adapted into multiple film versions.

But I don't think this script was unintellligent. I thought they executed them fairly well. Obviously some of the ideas are going to be left unexplained because we're dealing with a subject that HAS no definite answer as far as we know.

Don't get me wrong, everyone, I'm not saying Prometheus is as good as 12 Angry Men, I'm just using that film as an example of a non-plot driven movie. There's a distinct difference between that, and comparing relative quality.

 

[CConn]

There's nothing wrong with having unanswered questions or ambiguity but the problem is this story handles a potentially heavy subject matter as if it were a pamphlet meaning you haven't got much to actually ponder about afterwards.

Again, that's real sad for you, but for myself, and the 5 other guys I saw it with, we were still thinking about it, and talking about it as recently as today due to how many questions and multiple meanings scattered throughout the film.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

You severely missed the point of the 'White Knight' angle, and the entire ending then.

Oh I got the point, I'm just saying they shouldn't have crammed it into the end of an already too long movie.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You severely missed the point of the 'White Knight' angle, and the entire ending then.

When I brought up the Two-Face example, I didn't mean that I thought it didn't work within the context of the film. I think it works wonderfully. My issue with it was that Nolan had to basically cut out a large amount of potential from the charcter of Two-Face (again, Two-Face, not Harvey Dent.) As a film, it's works very well. But as a comic fan, I was sad that I saw one of my favorite bat-villains only used to a fraction of his true potential. I could go in-depth about the multiple ways and elements I would have loved to see explored with his character on film, but I dont' want to derail this thread any further.