Prometheus - Part 8

[CConn]

Certain things are too on the nose.

The christian symbolism and statements referring to christianity, etc. The "I can't have kids" line, in screen time minutes before she gets impregnated.

I guess I kinda see that.

But at the same time, the things that were actually called attention to, more stuck me as more of a McGuffin for other, more intelligent questions that weren't at all overdone.

I dunno, I'm usually VERY sensitive to picking up when things are hammered into the audiences' collective skull (like, it's my one major complaint about Nolan movies), but Prometheus by and large never struck me as that kind of film.

 

[Schlosser85]

like, it's my one major complaint about Nolan movies

I feel like you could make a good drinking game out of Batman Begins by taking a shot every time someone says the word "fear".

 

[CConn]

Yup. And everyone blamed it on Goyer.

It wasn't Goyer.

 

[Balthus Dire]

They were fleshed out to an extent but still not all that deep. They each had their own job to do on the ship and when **** hit the fan they had to figure things out but that was about it.

Then you take Aliens which is also considered a classic by a lot of people and see how many characters in that were just "cannon fodder", yet I rarely hear people complain about it.

My problem with that complaint in Prometheus is that you should only have so many main characters to focus on in any movie and they're not going to send out only 2-4 people on a scientific expedition.

Don't get me wrong there were some stupid choices made like the scientist who wanted to play with the evolved worm, but I don't let things like that completely ruin an entire movie for me. It's no different to me then when one of the characters in Alien(can't remember which one)wanders off by themselves when they were previously paired up with someone. It's a typical horror cliche but no one complains about that in the "classic" film Alien.

I believe you're referring to when Brett wanders off to chase the cat and is killed, but I don't think that's as fair of a comparison: they (the crew) have no idea what the alien is or what it's capable of and also think it's still small, and they're a bunch of space-truckers essentially. The guy in Prometheus is supposed to be a scientist/biologist lol and he doesn't take any precautions with an alien snake after he just freaked out about a dead alien a few scenes prior? Bleh.

And your comparison to Aliens is a more fair comparison: the marines who serve as canon fodder are, for the most part, kinda cliche. But, they aren't around long before the kick the bucket, and they still have really awesome personas that make them memorable. After they all bite the dust, it's the smaller and more contained crew of marines that have the real meat of character.

Prometheus has none of that. Like, why have so many faceless and non-important characters? Why not reduce the cast of throwaways to a handful of great characters, so we actually care when they die? And also, you could spend more time developing those characters and making them memorable rather than just having them as no-name generic guys/gals.

 

[dark_b]

New official stills...spoilers!

Spoiler

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/476

anyone thinks the Engineer from the prologue was CGI?

he is CGI. t:
http://www.awn.com/articles/visual-effects/prometheus-bringing-alien-21st-century

 

[DBryan]

The crew in that room already knew about the alien baby. They are on Weyland's payroll. Remember...they were hand picked. They were to bring the embryo back to Earth by putting her in stasis.

When did that information ever come across in the film?

 

[CConn]

Yeah, that doesn't even make much sense to me.

 

[Figs]

I believe you're referring to when Brett wanders off to chase the cat and is killed, but I don't think that's as fair of a comparison: they (the crew) have no idea what the alien is or what it's capable of and also think it's still small, and they're a bunch of space-truckers essentially. The guy in Prometheus is supposed to be a scientist/biologist lol and he doesn't take any precautions with an alien snake after he just freaked out about a dead alien a few scenes prior? Bleh.

Prometheus has none of that. Like, why have so many faceless and non-important characters? Why not reduce the cast of throwaways to a handful of great characters, so we actually care when they die? And also, you could spend more time developing those characters and making them memorable rather than just having them as no-name generic guys/gals.

Well like I said in my previous post, I do agree that the scientist playing around with the worm thing was idiotic of him.

As for your last statement, I had mentioned earlier that you should only have so many main/important characters and for a scientific expedition there are going to be a good handful of crew members. You can't expect all of them to be deep and make you want to care for them. I will say that some of the characters they focused on more(other than Fassbender and Rapace) could have been written a tad better.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Well like I said in my previous post, I do agree that the scientist playing around with the worm thing was idiotic of him.

As for your last statement, I had mentioned earlier that you should only have so many main/important characters and for a scientific expedition there are going to be a good handful of crew members. You can't expect all of them to be deep and make you want to care for them. I will say that some of the characters they focused on more(other than Fassbender and Rapace) could have been written a tad better.

Oh, I don't expect all of the characters to be knockouts. I understand that this is a research vessel and not a mining vessel like the Nostromo, so there's obviously going to be more crew members.

But even characters who are supposed to be kinda "main" characters like Charlize Theron and Idris Alba and Shaw's boyfriend dude are barely touched upon. They're all pretty much throwaways that don't even really need to be in the movie, and these are supposed to be main characters lol. I would've traded the lame British guy and the moronic snake lover guy for more development with any of the three characters I listed above.

 

[Kane52630]

he is CGI. t:
http://www.awn.com/articles/visual-effects/prometheus-bringing-alien-21st-century

That's crazy, I was second guessing if it was really well done prosthetics but holy crap it's CG.

 

[CConn]

Halloway was the only real disappointment to me.

Charlize Theron and Idris Alba's characters were no more underdeveloped than any of the crew members in Alien, IMO.

 

[Figs]

Oh, I don't expect all of the characters to be knockouts. I understand that this is a research vessel and not a mining vessel like the Nostromo, so there's obviously going to be more crew members.

But even characters who are supposed to be kinda "main" characters like Charlize Theron and Idris Alba and Shaw's boyfriend dude are barely touched upon. They're all pretty much throwaways that don't even really need to be in the movie, and these are supposed to be main characters lol. I would've traded the lame British guy and the moronic snake lover guy for more development with any of the three characters I listed above.

Well in Idris' case, they did need a captain/pilot and it goes back to my previous point that the characters in Alien might have had a bit more to do but still weren't all that deep as well. It's just that movie is held in high regard that people let that slide when it comes to criticisms.

 

[DBryan]

I guess I kinda see that.

But at the same time, the things that were actually called attention to, more stuck me as more of a McGuffin for other, more intelligent questions that weren't at all overdone.

I dunno, I'm usually VERY sensitive to picking up when things are hammered into the audiences' collective skull (like, it's my one major complaint about Nolan movies), but Prometheus by and large never struck me as that kind of film.

I see your point.

Such as, when she does become pregnant, and how this somewhat reflects the miracle of the virgin Mary, and David even fills the place of angel Gabriel - and that IS ambiguous, and we may never make that connection without the prior references to christianity and that she's supposed to be infertile.

I just feel that this information could have been delivered in a better way. Like it could have been set up that she was infertile way earlier in the film, in a different way that didn't seem so forced. It's the dialogue that's mainly the problem - it just isn't natural. She just comes out with this infertility stuff from practically nowhere.

 

[CConn]

I see your point.

Such as, when she does become pregnant, and how this somewhat reflects the miracle of the virgin Mary, and David even fills the place of angel Gabriel - and that IS ambiguous, and we may never make that connection without the prior references to christianity and that she's supposed to be infertile.

I just feel that this information could have been delivered in a better way. Like it could have been set up that she was infertile way earlier in the film, in a different way that didn't seem so forced. It's the dialogue that's mainly the problem - it just isn't natural. She just comes out with this infertility stuff from practically nowhere.

Yeah. I mean, I'd never say Prometheus has a perfectly written script. My main appreciation of it stems from how it really reaches for so much more (such as the Virgin Mary/Gabriel thing) than almost any other movie nowadays does.

That kinda makes me a bit more forgiven of some plot/dialogue issues than if it was a more basic movie that more heavily relied on plot and dialogue to stay relevant.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Well in Idris' case, they did need a captain/pilot and it goes back to my previous point that the characters in Alien might have had a bit more to do but still weren't all that deep as well. It's just that movie is held in high regard that people let that slide when it comes to criticisms.

But the characters having "a bit more to do" in Alien makes all the difference, and that's kinda what I'm saying. If Alien had a bajillion characters like Prometheus, there would be less for Alien's core cast to do...just like in Prometheus. And, it would then have the same problems as Prometheus does with lack of characterization.

IMO, Prometheus should've sacrificed some of their throwaway characters and spent more time giving their interesting characters something to do. I don't need to know what every character eats for breakfast every morning or what kind of toilet paper is their favourite, but at least give them something to do other than stand around.

A great example is what someone else suggested with having Shaw's BF come back as the crab-walking guy. That would've had way more impact and contributed to the story and character arcs all around. Shaw would've had to deal with the loss of her BF as well as him turning into a murderous creepy monster and it would've created an interesting friction between Shaw and Charlize Theron that could've been further explored. Also, it would've given Shaw's BF some more merit to the film other than being a walking plot device.

Instead, we're left with a kinda cool attack scene that really has no place and with a character that nobody cared about. Giving characters things to do brings them to life.

 

[DBryan]

Halloway was the only real disappointment to me.

Charlize Theron and Idris Alba's characters were no more underdeveloped than any of the crew members in Alien, IMO.

Yeah I thought Theron's and Elba's characters were fine.

There were a number of characters that were a waste, or should have been merged. Too many characters.

Like did we really need those 2 guys who were with Elba when he crashed his ship? What did they ever do in the entire film?

They had a conversation earlier in the film revolving around a bet, and then towards the end of the film they talked about paying each other on the other side... I could be wrong, but... did they ever say ANYTHING else? They just stand around, looking alternatively perplexed or shocked at events. And I think they were involved with shooting the Filfield zombie?

But you take a film like John Carpenter's The Thing, say. There's a whole bunch of characters in that film but they all feel distinct, even the sub-characters.

 

[Figs]

Halloway was the only real disappointment to me.

Charlize Theron and Idris Alba's characters were no more underdeveloped than any of the crew members in Alien, IMO.

That's what I'm saying.

 

[CConn]

Yeah I thought Theron's and Elba's characters were fine.

There were a number of characters that were a waste, or should have been merged. Too many characters.

Like did we really need those 2 guys who were with Elba when he crashed his ship? What did they ever do in the entire film?

They had a conversation earlier in the film revolving around a bet, and then towards the end of the film they talked about paying each other on the other side... I could be wrong, but... did they ever say ANYTHING else? They just stand around, looking alternatively perplexed or shocked at events. And I think they were involved with shooting the Filfield zombie?

But you take a film like John Carpenter's The Thing, say. There's a whole bunch of characters in that film but they all feel distinct, even the sub-characters.

I think some of that might have been simply due to the fact that it wouldn't have made any sense to go on that kind of an expedition with only 4 crew members.

At least that's what I immediately assumed when I saw the sub title announce that it had a crew of 17. I literally immediately thought "Oh, that makes sense...but we won't be seeing much of most of them."

 

[Figs]

But the characters having "a bit more to do" in Alien makes all the difference, and that's kinda what I'm saying. If Alien had a bajillion characters like Prometheus, there would be less for Alien's core cast to do...just like in Prometheus. And, it would then have the same problems as Prometheus does with lack of characterization.

IMO, Prometheus should've sacrificed some of their throwaway characters and spent more time giving their interesting characters something to do. I don't need to know what every character eats for breakfast every morning or what kind of toilet paper is their favourite, but at least give them something to do other than stand around.

A great example is what someone else suggested with having Shaw's BF come back as the crab-walking guy. That would've had way more impact and contributed to the story and character arcs all around. Instead, we're left with a kinda cool attack scene that really has no place and with a character that nobody cared about. Giving characters things to do brings them to life.

Yeah, but in the original Alien a lot of what those characters had to do was to try to trap or run from the Alien. At the end of the day it's still not all that special though. They're actions, not the movie in regards to not being special.

In all fairness, I do see your point though Balthus. I'm just being stubborn. t:

 

[CConn]

That's what I'm saying.

And to me, that's fine. That's old school, "expendable crew member" gaff right there.

I will say, Theron could've done more. But, at the same time, I guarantee you she had a lot of scenes cut from the final product. Kinda makes me hope there's a DC.

 

[DBryan]

But the characters having "a bit more to do" in Alien makes all the difference, and that's kinda what I'm saying. If Alien had a bajillion characters like Prometheus, there would be less for Alien's core cast to do...just like in Prometheus. And, it would then have the same problems as Prometheus does with lack of characterization.

IMO, Prometheus should've sacrificed some of their throwaway characters and spent more time giving their interesting characters something to do. I don't need to know what every character eats for breakfast every morning or what kind of toilet paper is their favourite, but at least give them something to do other than stand around.

A great example is what someone else suggested with having Shaw's BF come back as the crab-walking guy. That would've had way more impact and contributed to the story and character arcs all around. Shaw would've had to deal with the loss of her BF as well as him turning into a murderous creepy monster and it would've created an interesting friction between Shaw and Charlize Theron that could've been further explored. Also, it would've given Shaw's BF some more merit to the film other than being a walking plot device.

Instead, we're left with a kinda cool attack scene that really has no place and with a character that nobody cared about. Giving characters things to do brings them to life.

There was no weight to that scene. It had no repercussions and no effect on the rest of the film, as has been pointed out before.

I mean, jesus, at least have some proper acknowledgment of the horror of what just happened.

 

[Figs]

And to me, that's fine. That's old school, "expendable crew member" gaff right there.

I will say, Theron could've done more. But, at the same time, I guarantee you she had a lot of scenes cut from the final product. Kinda makes me hope there's a DC.

Well from that recent interview that was posted a few pages back, it sounds like there just might be a director's cut on DVD/Blu-ray.

 

[terry78]

OK, the Engineer being CG and not a dude in prosthetics fooled me. That was some good ass work then. They need some kind of nod for that.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Yeah, but in the original Alien a lot of what those characters had to do was to try to trap or run from the Alien. At the end of the day it's still not all that special though.

In all fairness, I do see your point though Balthus. I'm just being stubborn. t:

Hahaha fair enough.

And to me, that's fine. That's old school, "expendable crew member" gaff right there.

I will say, Theron could've done more. But, at the same time, I guarantee you she had a lot of scenes cut from the final product. Kinda makes me hope there's a DC.

I really do think a DC (if it's made) would possibly make a big difference to this film. I haven't read the script or anything, but I can imagine there was a lot more of Theron that ended up on the cutting room floor. I'm hoping it's the same for other characters, too.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

I want a few extra minutes of David just chillin and whatnot. Love that character so much.