Prometheus - Part 8

[Octoberist]

http://www.slashfilm.com/lol-red-letter-media-questions-prometheus/

 

[Balthus Dire]

http://www.slashfilm.com/lol-red-letter-media-questions-prometheus/

I was gonna post this earlier. Hilarious.

 

[DACrowe]

I would argue that the characters in Alien were more fleshed out and had way more personality than the majority of the Prometheus characters. A backstory isn't necessarily what gives a character depth; it's how they act, how they react, their motivations or lack of motivations, how they talk, etc.

IMO Alien's characters were great in that regard. They were all unique in respect to one another, they all had their own motives and reasons for their actions, and most of all they were all believable. They weren't just faceless throwaway characters.

I'd agree that Prometheus has a lot of useless throwaway characters (one of the weaknesses of the script), but it still has a strong interesting center of characters with Shaw, David, Vickers, Janek, Weyland (short screentime, but important) and Holloway.

I will say the beauty of Alien is its minimalist nature and the actors gave very naturalistic performances (save Kotto hamming it up beautifully as Parker). But what makes them work so well is it's a small focused cast where all the actors bring a lot of personality to their roles. But we know absolutely nothing of their home lives or their relationships with anyone but each other, which is strictly professional be it polite or antagonistic. When you watch it the first time you don't remember their names, you remember John Hurt as the "big man on campus," Tom Skeritt as the "world weary captain," Kotto and Harry Dean Stanton as the smartass mechanics who like to complain, Ian Holm as the shifty and sneaky medical officer, Sigourney Weaver as the by-the-book stickler and ultimately the survivor.

None of them are delved deeply into. But to tis benefit there are not a bunch of superfolous Jurassic Park-type characters who are literally there just to die. If it had just been Vickers, Janek, David, Shaw, Holloway, Weyland and maybe the two guys who get lost, it could have been much more focused on them who are just as developed.

 

[DACrowe]

That there are people defending this part of the film (well there is a reason why I have the guy defending this part of the film blocked) is baffling.

They were SCARED OUT OF THEIR MINDS the last time we had seen them on screen, actively trying to avoid life signs, and then they are all super cool about a SNAKE ALIEN on an ALIEN PLANET.

It's completely illogical and its a scene that certainly detracts from the suspense.

I agree it was poorly written. But I wonder if Alien would have been as beloved if there was an Internet in 1979 for fans and viewers to dissect every scene like that. I mean take for example when Brett wanders off from the main group to look for a cat. They just saw a small, but terrifying monster rip its way out of Cain's stomach, yet they split up to look for a cat. Brett didn't even take anything with him to "catch" the alien they mistakenly think is small, so he could still have been attacked by a gut-eating monster. Dallas goes to confront the monster and turns around when it's obviously a bad idea. Lambert won't move when Parker tells her to so he can roast the xenomorph. He dies because of that. Afterwards, she could still run while it's eating him, but does not.

The last two were believable reactions. But they're all people behaving stupidly in a horror movie and dying because of that.

 

[Balthus Dire]

None of them are delved deeply into. But to tis benefit there are not a bunch of superfolous Jurassic Park-type characters who are literally there just to die. If it had just been Vickers, Janek, David, Shaw, Holloway, Weyland and maybe the two guys who get lost, it could have been much more focused on them who are just as developed.

That's what I said earlier, though: it's not necessarily a vast background that makes a character great or memorable or believable, it's also how they interact with each other and their environment and how they react to situations. You're right that Alien has the benefit of having a smaller, closer cast, but Prometheus could've easily pulled that off and still kept their canon fodder characters to boot.

The problem is there's just no scenes or interactions to tie the majority of the characters together or to flesh them out or to simply give them something to do other than "stand around and die." Some of the best character revealing scenes in Alien revolve around heated discussions about what to do about Kane and the alien itself and all that...I didn't see anything close to that caliber in Prometheus, but it could've been there had they bothered to do it.

The recipe for great characters is there, but they just don't do anything with it for the most part. IIRC Shaw doesn't even confront Vickers after her BF gets roasted. Stuff like that would've added to the characterizations and to the film as a whole immensely.

 

[jmc]

So, let's see...

Are we supposed to listen to guys like DA who say it is an extremely intelligent film and talk about things like the Igilis and Annuaki - and other such concepts that very few people of normal intelligence and education would even know about it...

Or should we listen to you, who can do nothing more than muster "It's dumb. Seriously. You gotta believe me. It's dumb"?

That's a real tough call to make.

Now you're just being a ****ing tool.

 

[Schlosser85]

oh SNAP

 

[Viscal]

27 new Prometheus stills and concept art images

http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/2045

 

[CConn]

Now you're just being a ****ing tool.

Nope, just stating the obvious.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

So, let's see...

Are we supposed to listen to guys like DA who say it is an extremely intelligent film and talk about things like the Igilis and Annuaki - and other such concepts that very few people of normal intelligence and education would even know about it...

Or should we listen to you, who can do nothing more than muster "It's dumb. Seriously. You gotta believe me. It's dumb"?

That's a real tough call to make.

Here jmc I translated CConn's real meaning for you.

"So let's see...

Are we supposed to listen to guys like DA who agree with me?

Or should we listen to guys like you who dare to disagree with how awesome I think Prometheus was?!

That's a real tough call to make. "

 

[CConn]

No, that's the thing...

I don't really agree with DA's feelings on the film at all.

He criticizes the film for a lot of things that I don't, and he enjoyed it a lot less than I did.

The point is, DA both gives pretty well stated points on what he didn't like, and even if I don't agree with them, I respect his understanding and viewpoint. It's well stated, it's thorough, and it's concise.

Again, what I will always criticize is thoughtlessness and laziness. Not differing opinions.

 

[CConn]

Moreover, Balthus, DBryan, Darth Skywalker, and a couple other names I can't recall also gave really well stated arguments on the movie's flaws.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Fair enough, but you need to stop talking down to people. You get too emotional about this film.

 

[CConn]

I'm not being emotional at all.

 

[jmc]

Nope, just stating the obvious.

No, you're trying to come across as being better than others. I don't care how many comparisons you can make with whatever religion, a flawed movie is still a flawed movie.

 

[Figs]

No, you're trying to come across as being better than others. I don't care how many comparisons you can make with whatever religion, a flawed movie is still a flawed movie.

News flash, all movies have flaws. Not trying to be a smart ass but that is why I'm not tearing this film apart like others. I don't think the flaws that it had ruined the entire movie.

 

[CConn]

No, you're trying to come across as being better than others. I don't care how many comparisons you can make with whatever religion, a flawed movie is still a flawed movie.

Um, no. I'm simply saying you're not making much of a point outside of repeating "it's a bad movie" over and over again. And that method of argument will always lose out to someone who has four paragraphs of intelligent, eloquent explaination.

 

[jmc]

News flash, all movies have flaws. Not trying to be a smart ass but that is why I'm not tearing this film apart like others. I don't think the flaws that it had ruined the entire movie.

Well I think it did, so much so the more I think about the more the flaws stick out and the more it annoys me. What I don't appreciate are people who find meanings and alagories within the story essentially telling others they're wrong.

 

[Figs]

Well I think it did, so much so the more I think about the more the flaws stick out and the more it annoys me. What I don't appreciate are people who find meanings and alagories within the story essentially telling others they're wrong.

Fair enough. I just don't think it was flawed as others. It had some flaws but overall, Alien and Aliens had similar flaws as I mentioned when I was talking to Balthus, and not many people ever bring those flaws up.

 

[CConn]

Well I think it did, so much so the more I think about the more the flaws stick out and the more it annoys me. What I don't appreciate are people who find meanings and alagories within the story essentially telling others they're wrong.

If your claim is that the alegories aren't there, then yes, you're wrong.

If you think they weren't developed or written well enough or had some flaw in their execution, then that's a different matter entirely.

 

[jmc]

Um, no. I'm simply saying you're not making much of a point outside of repeating "it's a bad movie" over and over again. And that method of argument will always lose out to someone who has four paragraphs of intelligent, eloquent explaination.

**** me, I never once said it was a bad movie. You've got your head so far up your arse you're not even bothering to read what people write.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[CConn]

Fair enough. I just don't think it was flawed as others. It had some flaws but overall, Alien and Aliens had similar flaws as I mentioned when I was talking to Balthus, and not many people ever bring those flaws up.

And I hate saying this (because it seems dismissive to those who didn't enjoy it), but it always seems like subtle or very allegorical films often suffer from a great amount of criticism initially. As someone else pointed out, Blade Runner was quite panned originally.

I dunno, I'm not at all saying everyone will love Prometheus in 20 years, but it is a shame most people don't seem to judge these kinds of films in quite the same way as they do others.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

Fair enough. I just don't think it was flawed as others. It had some flaws but overall, Alien and Aliens had similar flaws as I mentioned when I was talking to Balthus, and not many people ever bring those flaws up.

That's because over time people have come to look past the flaws of those films and truly appreciate the themes and subtext, in Alien, and the innovative special effects and action, in Aliens. Over time, and with the directors cut, people will look back at Prometheus with fondness of its ideals and philosophy, not at its minor nitpicked flaws. At least I hope so...

 

[CConn]

**** me, I never once said it was a bad movie. You've got your head so far up your arse you're not even bothering to read what people write.

Okay, I apologize, let me rephrase...

From what I've seen you say, you seem to have only expressed the end result of your feels on the film "this wasn't good" or "that wasn't done well" and have not actually delved into the whys and the hows and whatnot to really help myself and others really understand your point of view.

That is, has, and always will be the point I've been trying to make to you. If it is or has appeared to be something else, I legitimately am sorry.