Prometheus - Part 9

[Legion]

Only one of those has the "aliens" directly creating human life and that is Neon Genesis Evangelion which isn't a movie but an anime.

You just proved Bullets point. Prometheus explores concepts that are seldom (if ever) explored by a giant American blockbuster.

The only series that remotely explores similar ideas and themes is Neon Genesis Evangelion and that's a very elaborate Japanese piece of animation which was a t.v series.

In Guyver, another anime/manga series which is older than Evangelion...Aliens created humans as bio-weapons to fight their wars for them. Humans were created as a base for the Zoanoids which were creatures that had great strength and destructive capabilities.

Humans were ideal because they were highly adaptive, consumed less energy, and had high reproductive capabilities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1TiwYZAWw4

 

[spider-neil]

Yeah, but still, the plot formula that started with STM has become so over used that even when it is done extremely well and in a very inventive way (say, Batman Begins), it still comes off as overused and tiresome. There's just a limit to how many times a singular plot structure can be repeated.

SM2 essentially has the same beats as Superman 2 but it was presented in way that was fresh and engaging (at least it was for me). I have no problem with a movie being derivative as long as I'm engaged. Read 'Hero with a thousand faces' the plot beats of Star Wars are pretty much done before, but the presentation (Space battle) was incredible.

 

[superkong 500]

I want to see paradise made but ridley has the BR movie coming up plus another movie, I just hope he gets to make it soon. Even though i didn't love prometheus I have to say that the ideas to explore for a sequel have great potential. Imagine if we get an opening prologue with an engineer(the angel) and the virgin mary or something with the roman empire, theres so many possibilities so many ways to go. I just hope for the sequel we get much more screentime with the engineers, live ones this time.

 

[CConn]

SM2 essentially has the same beats as Superman 2 but it was presented in way that was fresh and engaging (at least it was for me). I have no problem with a movie being derivative as long as I'm engaged. Read 'Hero with a thousand faces' the plot beats of Star Wars are pretty much done before, but the presentation (Space battle) was incredible.

I'm not referring to Spider-Man 2, though. Like I said, I do agree that you can make some plots fresh.

What I'm referring to is the similarities between STM, SM1, BB, FF, IM, GL, etc. That "origin" plot structure has become extremely overdone. Even when done well, like in SM1, BB, etc.

Unless you want to argue that they weren't done well.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I think you all are going to catch heck defending the term "original" with prometheus.... but change it to "interesting" or "inviting" and you will be just fine. Most of this stuff has been done before, but Ridley's delve into theology, anthropology, sociology, and some biology are peaking my interest into what comes next. I've seen plenty of movies (and tv shows...damn u Lost) build up to the point where it has me asking questions and thinking and then NOT know how to finish.

 

[CConn]

I agree. As I've said before, one of the things I like about the movie is that it draws from a lot of other very classic, and very important themes of science fiction writing and film.

 

[pyromaniac]

Me. And most people, I think. Don't you hate the feeling you get when you watch a by-the-numbers Hollywood blockbuster, and you realise that you have seen all of it before? I am afraid to say that the saturation of the Superhero genre has made this worse than ever.

Well, it can be unfortunate when you have a really creative director excellent at storytelling and characterisation and visuals who has to make a commercial film for a studio, but more so within certain time constraints and conditions that had to be met, such as, put key plot points here and there.

I'd gander that Whedon would have made a different film, if he had a bit more 'breathability' and less adherence to the source material, which has always been fun and over-the-top. He's always driven his own car, so that's not an issue, but it's just a case of Catch-22, methinks. But one that worked in his favour, and in most people's as well.

Ridley Scott is very deep with his ideas and very conscientious and has the ability to straddle different disciplines (a lot like Whedon's, if you want to make comparisons), and he certainly can make people think, but where he fails for me is character logic, editing and pacing issues. Under the hands of a more capable editor or storyteller, Prometheus would have made for a better film with more engaging characters as opposed to one or two.

At the very least, we can continue to dissect the mythos from an anthropological, sociological, philosophical and theological (and probably even biological) perspective. There is that, lol.

 

[bullets]

In what way?

It almost works as a stand alone film. At this point it's not part of the linear story or directly related to Alien. Some people were disapointed but I found it more interesting.

 

[tek]

movie was okay 6/10, inferior to the aliens movies. found myself laughing out loud at some of the absurdity in it. would not watch twice in the theatres but would watch a free to air tv reshowing down the track

 

[HopeOfTheFuture]

The movie/story feels incompleet and it requires a sequel to tell the complete story, I dislike that. A movie should be able to be standalone, and in my opinion, Prometheus isn't. There's not much story in Prometheus for a compelling story.

 

[regwec]

movie was okay 6/10, inferior to the aliens movies.

All of them?

Harsh.

The movie/story feels incompleet and it requires a sequel to tell the complete story, I dislike that. A movie should be able to be standalone, and in my opinion, Prometheus isn't.

I sort of agree with that, but then, when I consider the magnitude of some of the themes it purports to explore, I doubt whether all of that could have been crushed into a 2-3 hour movie without a sense of plot saturation.

Some people say that Prometheus is too simple, and some say it is too confusing or open-ended. I think that is a result of trying to begin a story with a huge scope, but simultaneously trying to keep it structured and linear. I think it would feel more satisfactory if Prometheus and Paradise has been shot together, like LOTR. No one (sensible) really complained that The Fellowship of the Ring had a sort-of-ending-that-wasn't, because it was understood to be an episode in something larger.

That's why I am so eager to see Paradise- because without it, Prometheus does remain a fairly empty vessel.

 

[Pink Ranger]

All of them?

Harsh.

Hey, Alien 4 would have been great if they had just kept the "pengina" in there.

 

[Doctor Jones]

A friend and I were discussing this film on facebook, and he brought up some very interesting points. Forgive me if this has already been discussed. But it seems to make sense and believe in the different planet theory.

"I was surprised that people were still debating the LV-426 Space Jockey's story after the movie, but when I thought about it, it's still viable to discuss. The film never explicitly states where that paticular Engineer came from. The way I saw it coming out of the movie was the Engineers developed Xenomorphs on LV-223 (hence the Xeno mural. Not to think too much about the specifics of the film, but that could have been the doorway to their "Xeno Study Lab" or something and the Prometheus crew never had the time to check it out), and during the planet's evacuation, one of the Space Jockeys took samples of the Xeno eggs with it as they were evacuating. But, something happened and a facehugger escaped and killed the Engineer pilot, and the ship crashed before it could leave the Zeta Reticuli.

They stated LV-223 was a weapon development planet, so it makes sense that the Engineers would develop Xenomorphs there along with other projects. The Xenos are a byproduct of the Black Liquid, as seen at the end when the Proto-Xeno is accidentally created. My thoughts was LV-426 was just a deserted planet that had the misfortune of having a ship full of Xeno eggs crash on it, which is why there was no other evidence of life on the planet in "Alien" and "Aliens." Of course, this is just my thoughts, you could see it any other way, the movie left a lot of specifics up to interpretation."

 

[Balthus Dire]

So, basically, the Engineers are the worst pilots in the galaxy?

 

[Pink Ranger]

So, basically, the Engineers are the worst pilots in the galaxy?

Another theory: what were the engineers on LV-223 trying to escape from? We naturally assume they are running because their experiments are out of control, but what if they are running from something else?

Maybe these guys are the equivalent of terrorists in the Engineer race (can't assume an alien species is so homogenous that they don't have different factions and customs within their own kind). Maybe the hologram shows them escaping arrest or assassination from other Engineers who oppose what they do, and are trying to destroy what they've created.

So the hypothetical bio-terrorist Engineers who escape try to bring the Xenomorph experiment with them, but it all goes wrong and they crash on the uninhabitable LV-426. The lawful Engineers realize that it would be folly to send anyone down there to retrieve the experiment, because who in their right mind would land on that planet to begin with, so they set up a warning beacon and just let nature destroy the experiment for them.

 

[regwec]

I think it is a safe assumption that there is more than one faction of Engineers. There is the ancient, cultic group represented by the monastic figure we see on a primordial Earth, and then there are the aggressive Kurgan-types that Shaw and co meet. I also think that Ridley et al will have to explain why the Engineers are 9' humans and the Space Jockey from "Alien" is a 12'-15' being with an Elephantine skeleton and 9' arms.

The most satisfactory explanation, in my own fevered imagination, is that the Engineers are to the original Jockeys what we originally were to the Cultic Engineers. The Jockeys made them, and used them as a subservient species, partly to provide sacrificial beasts in the religious ceremonies by which they created new life. The Jockeys became increasingly decadent, and relied on the Engineers to do all their bidding. The Engineers learned their technology, and wore decorative armour that represented their overlords. Then some Engineers fled away to seek their own destiny and to create new life. These were the Cultists. They created human life as a blasphemy against the Jockeys. The Jockeys and the loyalist Engineers are committed to cleansing the universe of all the cultists aberrations.

Works for me, anyway.

 

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

 

[regwec]

Apparently, Scott alluded to the possibility that we could have killed one of their ambassadors (possibly Jesus Christ), come to Earth to try to stop the Roman Empire from destroying other civilizations...

I just loathe that idea. It strays too far from science fiction into overbearing Biblical hog-wash. Whether you believe in the Bible or not, it shouldn't ever be a cornerstone of sci fi, because it just pisses off the believers and those who dislike the themes in general.

It is also illogical: what have they got against the Romans that they wouldn't have against the Assyrians? Why is their answer to the Romans wiping out too many other cultures to wipe out every single culture on Earth? If their "beef" is with the Romans, then why send peaceful, passive Jesus to tell the Hebrews to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?" It would make more sense if the Engineers' emissary was Judas Maccabeus, but that would still be horribly hoaky.

In my opinion, naturally.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Apparently, Scott alluded to the possibility that we could have killed one of their ambassadors (possibly Jesus Christ), come to Earth to try to stop the Roman Empire from destroying other civilizations...

Interesting theory, but I bet the alien ambassador was actually John Lennon.

 

[bullets]

I want to see Paradise (is the title 100% official?) now.

All the news outlets are reporting that but I haven't seen a direct quote from Ridley, aside from him announcing a sequel.

 

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

 

[regwec]

Interesting theory, but I bet the alien ambassador was actually John Lennon.

That's actually a better idea, because the 60/70s peace movement was more far reaching than Jesus' message was before his crucifixion. You'd still have people foaming at the mouth, though!

 

[Pink Ranger]

That's actually a better idea, because the 60/70s peace movement was more far reaching than Jesus' message was before his crucifixion. You'd still have people foaming at the mouth, though!

Upon further reflection, actually it makes more sense that the alien ambassador would have been Tupac.

That explains how, every year, Tupac comes back from the dead and records a new album with clues in it ...

 

[dark_b]

spoilers

something interesting that my friend told me. he watched the movie some days ago and he remembers the details very good.
David wakes up the engineer. Wayland,Shaw,Ford and two bodyguards are standing next to him. he needs some time to take a deep breath and then he stands up.

whats the first thing he sees when he wakes up after 2000 years? Shaw and Wayland start to argue and talk very loud to David. Shaw takes a step and one of the bodyguards punches her with his gun in her stomach. she falls down in pain. so 2000 years ago they wanted to destroy the humans. and after all those years they fight and argue infront of him. so his first experience with the humans is watching them fight. violence. so you now combine the violence and what David asks him. if he asked him how to become immortal its a reaon to make him angry. and maybe he just told him that the humans created him(david).
i like this. because this is who we are. we like to argue and fight. we like to create and destroy. i hate that after he wakes up the movie becomes a cliche scifi monster movie. i hate that he is a stupid monster who wants to throw and punch everyone. but i do like that the humans hurt each other infront of him.

 

[Spade]

It's not a real mystery why the Engineer was violent. Dr. Tyson sums it up nicely:



Some people try to step over a line of ants on a sidewalk, but most don't even slow their stride, much less notice that the ants exist. Why? There's usually no deep philosophical reason why. "They were just in my way."