Superman Returns Ratner talks Superman!

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I've officially lost all respect for Bret Ratner. Sorry, but Abrams' script was NOT Superman.

And niether was this new superman movie apperently..go figure.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Gotta disagree. Whereas SR respected the Superman character and kept him true to form, Abrams' script was ridiculous and crapped on everything that made the character great. Superman as "The One"? Gimme a break.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Gotta disagree. Whereas SR respected the Superman character and kept him true to form, Abrams' script was ridiculous and crapped on everything that made the character great. Superman as "The One"? Gimme a break.

no you misunderstand me..i think SR is very superman..i was refering to what people have been saying on the site.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

no you misunderstand me..i think SR is very superman..i was refering to what people have been saying on the site.

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

 

[Monkey Chops]

I've officially lost all respect for Bret Ratner. Sorry, but Abrams' script was NOT Superman.

Agreed. It came across as a Matrix/Star Wars hybrid, which was a bad idea from the outset.

I may have given the impression that I was unhappy with X3's commercial success. That's not strictly true.

I'm an X-Men fan as well as a Superman fan and want both franchises to succeed. I was just angry that out of of all the directors to replace Singer, Fox chose a guy who has never made a meaningful movie in his life (admittedly, he came close with that Nic Cage 'A Christmas Carol' rip-off).

It could have been worse; it could have been McG. But compared to 'Returns, I cannot think of one memorable moment in X3. Just because one made more money than the other it proves - what? - that a large group of people have no taste? Possibly.

EDIT to say, despite my disdain for Ratner's movies in general, I do have to commend the guy for making an above average superhero flick with what little time he had.

 

[AgentPat]

Is that true??

Well, that's what I heard through the grapevine.

I didn't know he decked him, I thought they almost came to a fight but never did.

Heh. Honestly, I thought he decked him - like POW! G'night Irene.

Maybe the story was exaggerated, I dunno, but I like to believe he put him down. Gives me a nice warm and fuzzy, y'know? LOL

 

[Frodo]

I think Ratner had the right idea of a new francise, but the Abbrams script sounded terrible .

*You clark getting his suit from a can
* Lex Luthor turning out to be a CIA agent/ and in an earlier draft, a Kryptonian.
* The Star Wars Prequels feeling
* Krypton Not exploding
* The chosen one concept (yet again)
* Ty Zor , the Zod clone

Were a few of the aspects that I remember from it .

 

[The Guard]

*You clark getting his suit from a can

It wasn't that bad an idea, and it's an idea that went bye-bye by a later drat.

* Lex Luthor turning out to be a CIA agent/ and in an earlier draft, a Kryptonian.

So? This version of Luthor was well written, and kicked the crap out of "Luthor the shyster" on pretty much every level. Later drafts had him as the head of LexCorp, with contacts with the Kryptonians. HMM...sounds almost like the comics...

* The Star Wars Prequels feeling

Uh...no. Because SUPERMAN had CHARACTERIZATION and some actual GOOD dialogue, and mostly took place on Earth. Or have interstellar war movies never been made except for STAR WARS?

* Krypton Not exploding

It did, however, undero a freaking Civil War, and his people were enslaved. And Krypton was clearly going to explode in a later film, but first Superman would become AWARE of it and realize just what being the last of his kind MEANT, which would have made a VERY powerful arc.

* The chosen one concept (yet again)

So? Just another connection to Superman as a Christ Figure. And classic mythology/hero quest stuff.

* Ty Zor , the Zod clone

Who was about NINE TIMES COOLER THAN ZOD EVER WAS. Ever.

People always remember the BAD aspects, never the GOOD, of which there was quite a bit.

 

[skruloos]

People always remember the BAD aspects, never the GOOD, of which there was quite a bit.

I love Abrams work. I was a fan of Felicity. I'm a huge fan of Lost. And Alias was doing pretty well in my book. Mission Impossible 3, to me, was the best of the series and the closest to bridging the gap in the series being Cruise-as-Bond films and updates to the original TV show. That being said, there was little good about the draft I read of his Superman script. I'm glad you enjoyed it and it might have made an entertaining movie but the dialogue and the plot seemed to come from a bad cartoon.

 

[Deadman666]

I think Ratner had the right idea of a new francise, but the Abbrams script sounded terrible .

*You clark getting his suit from a can
* Lex Luthor turning out to be a CIA agent/ and in an earlier draft, a Kryptonian.
* The Star Wars Prequels feeling
* Krypton Not exploding
* The chosen one concept (yet again)
* Ty Zor , the Zod clone

Add to that; Martha getting sexually assulted. Lara getting raped and killed.

Jor-El commiting suicide so his ghost could come to earth and meet Clark

Lois Lane growing up with Clark in Smallville.

Clark having 'super feces' (I couldnt even believe they came up with that)

......That script had the potential to leave an ugly skid mark on Superman forever; to ruin him. It was garbage.

 

[Deadman666]

I love Abrams work.

His plan to re-invent and rework Star Trek the original series for the new film disturbs me..

 

[The Guard]

And what amazing, memorable dialogue did we have in SUPERMAN RETURNS? Oh. Hardly any. Abrams' SUPERMAN has REALISTIC dialogue and a very realistic psychological exploration of his characters and their issues.

"Little good"?

Give me a break.

Abrams NAILED CLark Kent/Superman. Nailed him. He nailed Superman growing up. He nailed Lois Lane and actually gave her some issues relevant to her character. He nailed Perry White. He made Jimmy Olsen into more than a cipher (so what if they hint at him being gay?). He nailed the Kents and their tutelage of Young Clark. He nailed Jor-El and Lara, and gave him characters beyond "We shot him into space to give him a shot at life". He also nailed Luthor, as far as his irrational hatred of aliens and his ego goes. He also nailed the world's reaction to Superman's arrival and feats, and their reaction to aliens on their planet in general, someting we saw precious little of in SUPERMAN RETURNS. The villains felt dangerous, and they did horrible things. The Civil War felt like a real issue. The superfeats were, once more, NAILED on a MASSIVE scale. The entire world and his geopolitical influence was brought into the thematic of Superman, not just Metropolis. The script had it's bumps, but everyone who poo poos it seems to let a few relatively SMALL issues ruin what is a FANTASTIC take on the Man of Steel.

 

[The Guard]

Add to that; Martha getting sexually assulted.

Because...women don't get sexually assaulted ever? Give me a break. This was a fantastic scene, which drove home several things: Clark's inner rage at evil, the precise reason Clark had to control his power and his fear at unleashing it. Fantastic scene.

Lara getting raped and killed.

Lara didn't get raped. She was murdered in front of Jor-El in a last-ditch effort to get Jor-El to reveal where he had sent his son. The ultimate sacrifice, and a horrible moment, period. Both parents suffered for their son. A powerful theme to be sure. So how is this a bad scene?

Jor-El commiting suicide so his ghost could come to earth and meet Clark

Wrong on the Earth part. The scene did not take place on Earth, but in a kind of limbo before Superman died. And you do realize that exactly this was supposed to happen in Donner's SUPERMAN II, right? Nevermind that Superman, near death, has met ghosts before, including Pa Kent, and also time traveled or what have you to talk to Jor-El in the comics. What exactly was your actual problem with this scene? It was a great scene where Jor-El gave Superman some final words of wisdom, and a chance at life, at the cost of his own. Thematically, just like in the comics.

Lois Lane growing up with Clark in Smallville.

Uh, no, she met him at a party in college that she was dragged to. Lois herself did not live in Smallville.

Clark having 'super feces' (I couldnt even believe they came up with that)

That was hilarious, and a very realistic exploration of the concept of an alien superbaby. And Martha's line...they NAILED her. "Well, it came from HIM, so it's precious."

......That script had the potential to leave an ugly skid mark on Superman forever; to ruin him. It was garbage.

You apparently didn't even read it properly. I just pointed that out. Saying it's "garbage" doesn't make it so.

 

[skruloos]

And what amazing, memorable dialogue did we have in SUPERMAN RETURNS? Oh. Hardly any. Abrams' SUPERMAN has REALISTIC dialogue and a very realistic psychological exploration of his characters and their issues.

I know what Abrams was doing in it. I just don't think he did it very well. I found the dialogue forced and trite. I suppose it was similar to the feel of the Spider-man films. They're good for what they are but I wasn't particularly impressed with them.

And actually, I take the subtext in Superman Returns over Abrams over-expositive work any day. But that's just me. To each his own.

"Little good"?

Give me a break.

Abrams NAILED CLark Kent/Superman. Nailed him. He nailed Superman growing up. He nailed Lois Lane and actually gave her some issues relevant to her character. He nailed Perry White. He made Jimmy Olsen into more than a cipher (so what if they hint at him being gay?). He nailed the Kents and their tutelage of Young Clark. He nailed Jor-El and Lara, and gave him characters beyond "We shot him into space to give him a shot at life". He also nailed Luthor, as far as his irrational hatred of aliens and his ego goes. He also nailed the world's reaction to Superman's arrival and feats, and their reaction to aliens on their planet in general, someting we saw precious little of in SUPERMAN RETURNS. The villains felt dangerous, and they did horrible things. The Civil War felt like a real issue. The script had it's bumps, but everyone who poo poos it seems to let a few relatively SMALL issues ruin what is a FANTASTIC take on the Man of Steel.

Eh. Like I said. I'm glad you liked it. I found it melodramatic and cheesy. It read like someone's fanfic. As I said, to each his own.

 

[skruloos]

His plan to re-invent and rework Star Trek the original series for the new film disturbs me..

I'm not sure with this one as well. I am also a huge Star Trek fan, mostly of TOS and TNG, with a bit of Voyager for good measure. If Abrams approached the film with attention to character like he does in Lost and the action and suspense in MI3, then I think he might have a winner. In any case, I'm just glad Berman and Braga are no longer on it.

In my dream of dreams, I'd have Abrams working on TOS feature films and Singer doing TNG ones.

 

[The Guard]

I know what Abrams was doing in it. I just don't think he did it very well. I found the dialogue forced and trite.

Where, exactly?

I suppose it was similar to the feel of the Spider-man films. They're good for what they are but I wasn't particularly impressed with them.

It feels almost nothing like the SPIDER-MAN films. It has a completely different tone entirely. Where SPIDER-MAN stopped exploring concepts and went balls-out-action, Abrams script continued to explore and develop. AND had balls-out-action.

And actually, I take the subtext in Superman Returns over Abrams over-expositive work any day. But that's just me. To each his own.

What was so over expositive about it? SUPERMAN RETURNS had a ****load of exposition, too.

Eh. Like I said. I'm glad you liked it. I found it melodramatic and cheesy.

What was so cheesy about it? What was so melodramatic? And since when has Superman's mythology NOT been a little cheesy and melodramatic?

It read like someone's fanfic. As I said, to each his own.

Someone's fanfic? Like, say, combining one's feelings on adoption with another director's vision to reboot a franchise? Nah...no elements of fanfic there...

If you don't like a version of something, you don't like a version of something. But please, dispense with the buzz words.

 

[Deadman666]

Because...women don't get sexually assaulted ever? Give me a break. This was a fantastic scene, ..

Yup watching Martha Kent get violated, beautiful scene. Very respectful to the innocence of the character.

Wrong on the Earth part. The scene did not take place on Earth, but in a kind of limbo before Superman died. And you do realize that exactly this was supposed to happen in Donner's SUPERMAN II, right? .

Jor-El was already dead in Superman II. The Jor-El computer within the crystals (that Luthor accessed in SR) would have sacrifed all it's energy to save Superman's powers....thus destroying itself. Not the same as Jor-El's suicide and Jor-El's ghost.

That was hilarious, and a very realistic exploration of the concept of an alien superbaby. And Martha's line...they NAILED her. "Well, it came from HIM, so it's precious.".

Yup. You do realize youre defending super feces...in more way than one.

You apparently didn't even read it properly. I just pointed that out. Saying it's "garbage" doesn't make it so.

Neither does your cries of its brilliance when it was already dismissed as crap and thrown out.

 

[Deadman666]

I'm not sure with this one as well. I am also a huge Star Trek fan, mostly of TOS and TNG, with a bit of Voyager for good measure. If Abrams approached the film with attention to character like he does in Lost and the action and suspense in MI3, then I think he might have a winner. In any case, I'm just glad Berman and Braga are no longer on it.

In my dream of dreams, I'd have Abrams working on TOS feature films and Singer doing TNG ones.

They shouldnt redo TOS, thats a huge mistake that Enterprise treaded into and annoyed alot of fans with.

They just need to go forward into the future and do some fresh concepts. Enough of this prequel stuff.

Matt Damon as Kirk is just all kinds of wrong.

 

[skruloos]

Where, exactly?

In the entirety of the script. From the Kryptonian Civil War to the ending.

It feels almost nothing like the SPIDER-MAN films. It has a completely different tone entirely. Where SPIDER-MAN stopped exploring concepts and went balls-out-action, Abrams script continued to explore and develop. AND had balls-out-action.

Nope. It read in the same melodramatic stle.

What was so over expositive about it? SUPERMAN RETURNS had a ****load of exposition, too.

Actually, a popular complaint of SR is that it didn't explore enough exposition to understand Superman leaving.

What was so cheesy about it? What was so melodramatic? And since when has Superman's mythology NOT been a little cheesy and melodramatic?

I never said Superman's mythology has not been cheesy and melodramatic. I just don't prefer it in my films. The whole set up of Ty-Zor, CIA Luthor, and everything else just felt overly contrived. You're free to disagree but I stand by my assessment.

Someone's fanfic? Like, say, combining one's feelings on adoption with another director's vision to reboot a franchise? Nah...no elements of fanfic there...

As I said, man, to each his own. You don't need to agree with me. I'm not taking it personally. Dougherty and Harris' script read better to me. It had subtext and painted human emotions in broad strokes. Abrams work to me felt immature and too comic-booky. It was like a cartoon and had the subtlety of a cartoon. As I said, it might have worked on screen and I would probably have enjoyed it just as I enjoyed Spider-man 2. However, my enjoyment of Spider-man 2 still doesn't change the fact that I personally felt the script for the film was shallow and overly melodramatic.

 

[skruloos]

If you don't like a version of something, you don't like a version of something. But please, dispense with the buzz words.

What buzzwords? Melodramatic? Contrived? Over-expositive? These are normal terms you would use to describe script elements.

And yes, it read like a fanfic to me. So sue me. For your information, so did the script to X3 and Batman Begins. I loved Begins and was disappointed with X3. It just shows that execution can make or break a mediocre script.

 

[Deadman666]

Plus overall, SR was ALOT more respectful to the comics/sourcework than Abrams totally crapping all over it and changing everything.

The only one new element that Singer added was the child; Jason. Everything else, even the origins...were based on the core origins of Superman that Donner presented in the classic film. It had a good foundation.

 

[skruloos]

They shouldnt redo TOS, thats a huge mistake that Enterprise treaded into and annoyed alot of fans with.

They just need to go forward into the future and do some fresh concepts. Enough of this prequel stuff.

Matt Damon as Kirk is just all kinds of wrong.

I don't like the idea of Damon as Kirk at all and I wasn't even aware that was a rumor.

However, I AM open to doing The Original Series as long as they can capture the adventure of those films. The problem with Enterprise was that it didn't know exactly what it wanted to be. It wasn't ballsy enough to be like TOS and it wasn't intelligent enough to be TNG. It wasn't dark enough to be DS9. It just floundered. If Abrams can capture a bit of Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country, then I think it will be all right.

 

[Hiruu]

Great new interview (spotted by narrows101) where Brett Ratner talkes about SR and the JJ Abrams script he was going to direct.I took out all the superman related bits from the interview.

From Chud.com


Source: http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=interviews&id=7251

Harry is pure trash...Ratner is laughing his @$$ off to the bank with Xmen III, which he got on short notice and delivered...period!

 

[batman7289]

ratner rulz

 

[Deadman666]

I don't like the idea of Damon as Kirk at all and I wasn't even aware that was a rumor.

However, I AM open to doing The Original Series as long as they can capture the adventure of those films. The problem with Enterprise was that it didn't know exactly what it wanted to be. It wasn't ballsy enough to be like TOS and it wasn't intelligent enough to be TNG. It wasn't dark enough to be DS9. It just floundered. If Abrams can capture a bit of Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country, then I think it will be all right.

I just wana see effin Captian Pike again from TOS, he was badass.