Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 2

[MbJ]

I think a time-line altering plot is inevitable if they
continue on with the DCEU, especially if BvS is any indication.

I was actually hoping that JL would have expounded on that even more,
which is why I was excited during Superman's first sequence. That was a let down,
as it relates to what I would have liked to have seen happen.

There's so much stuff in BVS that was obviously planned for when they were going to make Justice League a two-part film (Evil Superman working for Darkseid, Flash having to travel back in time, Lois being "the key") that they could probably write a whole book about what the original plan for this franchise before BVS derailed it was.

 

[Lily Adler]

But we risk losing a potential Momoa/Gadot sex scene.

 

[Jekecy]

Say everything was Earth Two and make the "rebooted" universe take place in Earth One.

Wonder Woman travels to Earth One because on Earth Two Darkseid killed everyone.

A bit rough, but it's an interesting concept. Would have to deal with two Diana's though.

Not to mention you'd need to explain such a cataclysmic event and get the audience invested into it. Only means of doing that in DCs current state is with WW2.

 

[DerekLake]

What exactly stems from the fact that Clark and his parents look white?

If Clark was played by say...Daniel Henney, and Martha by Michelle Yeoh, do the characters all of a sudden not make sense?

Anyways, for me, it's just a visual thing more than anything. I wouldn't want a black Clark Kent the same way I wouldn't want a blonde Clark Kent. For me, it matters for some characters, and not for others.

Race is not just about skin color, and frankly, I’ve found that only white people, who tend to view their own culture as “American” culture, tend to think that way. Race is about ethnicity, which is about shared culture, and history, and experiences. Again, I can only truly speak to my own experience as a black man, but even though I’ve never directly experienced overt racism, my parents, who grew up in the 50s and 60s, did. My late grandparents grew up under Jim Crow and segregation. I have plenty of family members, friends and colleagues who have experienced overt racism. I am in a community that retains the shared memory of a century of systematic discrimination against black people in America.

I get that a comic book property wouldn’t necessarily delve into all that, but make no mistake that an Asian Clark Kent would not have the same cultural heritage (or even necessarily the same understanding of America) as the current version of the character. And to write the character in the same way would be a disservice to what diversity is actually all about. That’s why I’m for ethnicity changing if it makes sense for the values the character embodies (which ARE deeper than race). But I’m not for a sort of blanket color-changing that ignores the other, more important aspects of ethnicity.

 

[SilverBatarangs]

There's so much stuff in BVS that was obviously planned for when they were going to make Justice League a two-part film (Evil Superman working for Darkseid, Flash having to travel back in time, Lois being "the key") that they could probably write a whole book about what the original plan for this franchise before BVS derailed it was.

They've made too many sudden changes; I wish
they would have just stuck with their original plans.
They got nervous and tried to change everything up
only for it to, seemingly, all fall apart.

 

[DerekLake]

If they really want to move forward with The Flash or any other superhero not named Batman or Wonder Woman or associated with them, then soft reboots for all! (except if Aquaman if it turns out good) So essentially ignoring BvS and JL continuity and maybe a few recasts here and there.

Flashpoint could definitely accomplish that. I could see it being like Days of Future Past where the end result is similar but with some big differences.

They squandered the opportunity to use Flashpoint with JL’s misfire.

I was a big proponent for using it as a catalyst for a soft-reset. And even then it was already a shaky foundation because many of these characters/actors were already despised.

JL was the nail in the coffin for that route.

Any marketing for these characters/actors, anytime soon, is going be an even bigger disappointment than JL.

When it comes to Flash, just start the hell over.

At this point, if they want to retcon, they should just retcon. If they want to reboot, they should just reboot.

In a perfect world, WB would just readjust and move forward with a better plan, but sadly, JL’s performance likely means a hard reboot after WW and Batman conclude their trilogies.

 

[MbJ]

But we risk losing a potential Momoa/Gadot sex scene.

Wonder Woman decapitating Mera could be on the posters. Kids would love that!

 

[Binker]

Anything could've been different. That's a fact.


After MOS, what if we've got MOS2 and TB before BvS. Or just TB. But in either case, imagine TB being a prequel with Batman fighting Joker and Harley, or just the Joker, and it deals with the death of Robin in a story showing the confident Dark Knight becoming the distraught character he would become. Then it ends with Zod's message to the world.


What if BvS had a different story? A Red Sun inspired Superman fighting out DKR-inspired Batman, the world siding with either or, almost aggressively. After Superman v Batman with Superman winning, and Batman v Superman with Batman winning, Diana comes in to stop the two and reveal the truth: Darkseid is corrupting the world, including them. Leading to the Trinity fighting Darkseid, defeating him, and ending with two revelations: there are more heroes (cue cameos), but also, Darkseid's influence and nightmares affected every hero's villains. And thus out JL movie is based on Alex Ross' Justice.



Imagine that. That might've been something.


But in terms of what we got, its not bad at all. Its been either great, good, okay or meh. But in the end, the major problems from BvS, SS, and JL were studio interference that affected their running times, story, and those film's directors' visions. This is why BvS wasn't released in theaters but a butchered cut instead, leaving the real cut coming out on blu ray, but in the end, showing that the right editing could've preserved the film with one cut. This is why SS compromised Ayer's vision, that left us with a movie that you could see his hands on partly, but to this day we're wondering if we will ever see his actual version with all the Joker scenes back in. And finally, this is why JL is what it is: because of Snyder's departure via family tragedy, because Whedon could only so much with the 6 weeks he had, and because of WB again, this time being the director if anything, which wasn't a good idea, including the 2 hour run time; you have a movie that does the job, but we all knew could only do so much with its positives before admitting its flaws.



In the end, thats what it is. And what needs to be corrected starting now.

 

[Romannen]

Genuine question: Gvien how much of a mess BvS and JL are, why was Chris Terrio picked for Star Wars:Episode IX? I don't understand it.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

WB gave DC's helm to egdy directors first and then did worse with trying to copy Marvel style in panic.

Just go with classic characterization & story lines from most beloved comics and hire directors that understands what works for the scene instead of forcing their way to the scene.

If you take a look at Synder, Ayer or Whedon, they have too distinctive styles. One trick ponies even when they direct movies in different genres.

And for WB, just stick with what made these characters popular in comics. Don't force it to be dark, grim or light,funny whatever.

 

[MbJ]

Genuine question: Gvien how much of a mess BvS and JL are, why was Chris Terrio picked for Star Wars:Episode IX? I don't understand it.

He won an Oscar for Argo. However, I'd bet that is no longer going to happen, or at least that his script for IX will be heavily rewritten by other creators. We saw it happen with Collin Trevorrow. He was the new golden boy in Hollywood after Jurassic World and was primed to direct Episode IX, and then Book of Henry came out and suddenly he was fired over supposed creative differences.

 

[SilverBatarangs]

A bit rough, but it's an interesting concept. Would have to deal with two Diana's though.

Not to mention you'd need to explain such a cataclysmic event and get the audience invested into it. Only means of doing that in DCs current state is with WW2.

I think some of the original heroes should survive from Earth Two,
Batman, Cyborg, Superman and Flash... at the very least. Earth One
could be dictated by the Injustice Superman.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Best way actually doing nothing. Just go with solo movies for a while. Make some changes there. Make these characters work just like Wonder Woman.

Noone cares Hulk story line or Ed Norton anymore... or What happened to Red Skull.. or is there real Mandarin or not..

Movie goers are forgiving bunch if you give them movies they like.

Once you have established characters and villains make another justice league.

 

[Romannen]

He won an Oscar for Argo. However, I'd bet that is no longer going to happen, or at least that his script for IX will be heavily rewritten by other creators. We saw it happen with Collin Trevorrow. He was the new golden boy in Hollywood after Jurassic World and was primed to direct Episode IX, and then Book of Henry came out and suddenly he was fired over supposed creative differences.

Yes, but they hired him just now, long after the debacle that was BvS. Puzzling.

 

[Jekecy]

Yes, but they hired him just now, long after the debacle that was BvS. Puzzling.

Given WB’s consistent meddling, I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney got a hold of Terrio’s unaltered scripts for BvS/JL and were impressed with his world building.

His hiring speaks volumes actually. Disney aren’t stupid, they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they brought someone who was responsible for the DCEU debacle. Clearly Terrio wasn’t.

 

[SilverBatarangs]

Anything could've been different. That's a fact.


After MOS, what if we've got MOS2 and TB before BvS. Or just TB. But in either case, imagine TB being a prequel with Batman fighting Joker and Harley, or just the Joker, and it deals with the death of Robin in a story showing the confident Dark Knight becoming the distraught character he would become. Then it ends with Zod's message to the world.


What if BvS had a different story? A Red Sun inspired Superman fighting out DKR-inspired Batman, the world siding with either or, almost aggressively. After Superman v Batman with Superman winning, and Batman v Superman with Batman winning, Diana comes in to stop the two and reveal the truth: Darkseid is corrupting the world, including them. Leading to the Trinity fighting Darkseid, defeating him, and ending with two revelations: there are more heroes (cue cameos), but also, Darkseid's influence and nightmares affected every hero's villains. And thus out JL movie is based on Alex Ross' Justice.



Imagine that. That might've been something.


But in terms of what we got, its not bad at all. Its been either great, good, okay or meh. But in the end, the major problems from BvS, SS, and JL were studio interference that affected their running times, story, and those film's directors' visions. This is why BvS wasn't released in theaters but a butchered cut instead, leaving the real cut coming out on blu ray, but in the end, showing that the right editing could've preserved the film with one cut. This is why SS compromised Ayer's vision, that left us with a movie that you could see his hands on partly, but to this day we're wondering if we will ever see his actual version with all the Joker scenes back in. And finally, this is why JL is what it is: because of Snyder's departure via family tragedy, because Whedon could only so much with the 6 weeks he had, and because of WB again, this time being the director if anything, which wasn't a good idea, including the 2 hour run time; you have a movie that does the job, but we all knew could only do so much with its positives before admitting its flaws.



In the end, thats what it is. And what needs to be corrected starting now.

I'm really loving these ideas. I would have loved if they
had taken this direction. I also think that The Batman could be
heavily influenced by Under the Red Hood. That, too, would leave
him in an extremely fragile and dark place, which would explain the
way he is in BvS. There's so much left unexplored within the DCEU.

They just rushed everything way too fast. There wasn't a natural
progression like there was in the MCU. You can see what turned those
characters into everything they currently are. It was natural, organic and
very well paced. WB tried to do it in reverse, but it can't work like that.
It causes everything to be uneven, as we are so clearly witnessing.

Perhaps in retrospect, after it's all said and done, it'll make sense.

 

[Binker]

Perhaps in retrospect, after it's all said and done, it'll make sense.

It already has. That DCEU tribute video is the prime example.

 

[Matt]

Given WB’s consistent meddling, I wouldn’t be surprised if Disney got a hold of Terrio’s unaltered scripts for BvS/JL and were impressed with his world building.

His hiring speaks volumes actually. Disney aren’t stupid, they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they brought someone who was responsible for the DCEU debacle. Clearly Terrio wasn’t.

I agree with our underlying premise, but I really doubt Terrio was hired for Star Wars because of hypothetical, unaltered BvS scripts. I think it’s far more likely that his resume as an Academy Award winning writer got him that gig.

 

[Jekecy]

I agree with our underlying premise, but I really doubt Terrio was hired for Star Wars because of hypothetical, unaltered BvS scripts. I think it’s far more likely that his resume as an Academy Award winning writer got him that gig.

I don’t doubt it played a role, but it was a small-budgeted flick that’s going on 8 years ago now, which is a lifetime in Hollywood.

Not saying (his unaltered) BvS/JL scripts were masterclass pieces of writing, but being genre pics of a large scale nature likely informed of his capabilities in this space.

At least enough where Disney felt confident they could mold something out of his potential. I don’t see Argo alone carrying his name that far.

 

[Romannen]

His hiring speaks volumes actually. Disney aren’t stupid, they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they brought someone who was responsible for the DCEU debacle. Clearly, Terrio wasn’t.

A screenwriter is responsible for the screenplay, so he shares part of the blame. Star Wars is a pretty lofty reward for undeniable failure.

 

[jmc]

It honestly doesn’t matter anymore whether this universe remains or they reboot it. Infinity War just showed how second rate WB’s attempt has been with creating a similar film franchise. Who ever ok’d the decision to press ahead with BvS and JL despite the obvious issues needs to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror, because Marvel just made the DC team up film look as if it was made by amateurs.

 

[LoganGambit87]

personally i am more positive for dceu after jl than i was after bvs they just need to keep moving forward

majority of the audience liked all the jl members
they have great chemistry
we have the team together
superman is back

just keep moving forward

 

[metaphysician]

Well seeing as GL's John Stewart could have filled that role better than Cyborg. I have to disagree with your "obvious" look as to why.

Well, yes and no. The "obvious" reason, that they wanted a non-white dude on the team, is totally true, though diluted a bit since they case Mamoa for Aquaman. That was certainly the logic of sticking him on the Nu52 Justice League, and I imagine the movie wanted to copy that ( since when Hollywood says "diversity" they almost always mean "black", Mamoa thus not counting ).

Why they choose *Cyborg*, rather than one of several other better candidates? That is much dicier, and less obvious. It really should have been either John Stewart or Steel.

 

[Consona]

personally i am more positive for dceu after jl than i was after bvs they just need to keep moving forward

majority of the audience liked all the jl members
they have great chemistry
we have the team together
superman is back

just keep moving forward

 

[Predator jp]

i just want to see more of Flash and Superman.