Sequels Recasting the X-Men for the MCU

[Tg11]

Gugu Mbatha Raw is my pick for an MCU Storm so I definitely agree with you about that

 

[Frankeh]

MCU Emma Frost

 

[Marvel united]

MCU Emma Frost

Yes!

 

[Marvel united]

I 100% agree with Storm being much more than T'Challa's love interest. However, Storm is an african woman and one of the most important black superhero. Black Panther was a massive success and a game changer. Storm making her debut in a movie that embraced african culture so beautifully and successfully sounds very fitting and interesting to me.

I think a Black Panther movie would be a better place to explore (respectfully) her backstory and origin, while maybe exploring some social and political issues than an X-Men movie.

I agree, she can absolutely appear in a Black Panther and that would be a great place to explore her mythology. Maybe instead of his love interest, she can sort of function as a a young woman T'Challa and Nakia/Dora Millaje take under their wings.

Similarly, I think a young Scott Summers looking up to Cap like Spider-Man looks up to Stark, would be great. I could see Bucky and Falcon taking Scott in and training him if Cap doesn't make it out of Infinity War

 

[Lip]

I don't want another young version of Scott. Late 20's early 30's is fine by me. And no, I don't want Scott looking up to Captain America.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I'm also not a fan of that. Fox, Singer and Kinberg have barely scratched the surface when it comes to most X-men characters not named Logan, Charles, Eric or Raven. The last thing they should do is repeat an arc of a different character from another franchise. All Feige needs to do is look to the "funny books" for inspiration.

 

[Lip]

I think Scott could (and should) be as big as Captain American in the MCU, especially with Chris Evans out of the picture.

I trust Feige knows who Scott is and can pull it off easily.

 

[Frankeh]

I think the problem is 1) how do you introduce an experienced, active X-Men team that was unheard of in the MCU until now? The solution would be to put them at their beginnings (late teens -- early 20's?). Although it still opens the can of worms of the rest of adult mutants (like Magneto and Xavier) who somehow have managed to keep a low profile during the entire MCU run. Although CW did pull the youtube videos card to establish that Spider-Man was a thing in this universe even if we didn't know it in previous movies.

And 2) like with Spider-Man, maybe Marvel will want to bring X-Men back to basics to distinguish them more, put their own stamp on their growth, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean we won't get the X-Men action we want though, as Homecoming proved they know what they need not to repeat. I feel confident saying they will likely put Scott as a natural leader off the bat, as it should be.

 

[Marvel united]

I don't want another young version of Scott. Late 20's early 30's is fine by me. And no, I don't want Scott looking up to Captain America.

There are several problems with starting the X-Men off as veteran team in their late twenties-early thirties, mainly being that having seasoned team makes zero sense in MCU continuity. The X-Men have larger-than-life villains that affect all of th MU, a seasoned team that has been active for 12 years could not have fought any of their villains and still fit continuity. Mutants are a worldwide, controversial phenomenon in the MU. They are everywhere and they can't exist yet in the MCU on a mass-scale therefore the X-Men have no reason to have been created.

The second major problem is the fact this is the FIRST MCU X-Men movie. The X-Men always start off as teenagers or College kids. Why would Feige skip years worth of character development and story arcs for these characters? Marvel has never skipped decades worth of stories for any of their characters. Almost everybody in the MCU starts off at the beginning and develops over the course of the movies. It makes zero sense to introduce a fresh X-Men team that has already gone through most of that development


Third: longevity, Youth and being a kid with scary powers has always been a big part of the X-Men comics in a similar way to Spider-Man. That's why there are always teen mutants on the team. I could see Feige wanting these kids to become what the Avengers currently are in the MCU. Spider-Man did not look up to Iron Man in the comics in the same way he does in the MCU. But for the MCU, it makes complete sense that he would. This is a Spider-Man that has grown up seeing these larger-than-life heroes occupy his world. The same thing can be said for certain members of the X-Men. I know that Cyclops is the Cap of the X-Men and they have similar qualities. Having an 18 year old Scott look up to Steve Rogers will only DRAMATIZE this quality in him. The narrative should be that "These kids are the future of the MCU" the same way Spider-Man is the future.


It just makes so much more sense thematically and narratively to start the X-Men off as they originally were in the comics. The Homecoming treatment makes sense.

 

[Lip]

There are many questions to be made, honestly. First and foremost: How will Marvel introduce mutants? So it isn't just about introducing the X-Men, a group of superhero. But a whole new concept. How they're gonna do that? Then how they'll introduce the X-Men? Will it be set in the present day? If so, will Magneto be a 100 year old villain? Will he have another origin story (which sounds exciting to me)?

So yeah, there are many questions. I have zero idea about how they'll do that. And I can say that I don't like the multiple universes idea. But would like to see the X-Men being introduced as an established team, so with the member already adults. However that depends a lot on how they'll be introduced.

Avengers 4 seems to be a game changer. One of the writers recently said that no prediction got close to what the movie is really about. Anyway, whatever it is that will happen in Avengers 4 that will change the MCU completely, I just hope it opens the door somehow for the mutants to be introduced. In a way that makes sense.

 

[Lip]

@Marvel United, I still disagree.

I don't think Feige chose a teenager Peter just because his story started like that. If I remember correctly, he wanted a Peter in High school because some of the best stories were told back then. And honestly it makes sense for a solo character like Peter.

So I don't think they'll have a teenager Scott just because he was 15 years old in the first issue. Scott is not known as a teenager as much as Peter is.

But you know, as I said above, it all depends on how in the hell they'll introduce mutants. Because, let's be honest, it won't be easy in anyway.

I don't think mutants popping out of nowhere now will be the ideal. How would you explain a character like Charles and Eric for instance? Will they have to be introduced as teenagers too? If no, they'll have to admit mutants existed before. Powerful mutants.

You see? It won't be a easy task.

 

[Frankeh]

I think they should hold off on Magneto like they held off the Osborns in Homecoming. And yeah at this point Magneto would have to be hella old to be a Holocaust survivor and it would stretch believability if he went toe to toe with fully trained X-Men in their blossoming youth.

 

[Marvel united]

There are many questions to be made, honestly. First and foremost: How will Marvel introduce mutants? So it isn't just about introducing the X-Men, a group of superhero. But a whole new concept. How they're gonna do that? Then how they'll introduce the X-Men? Will it be set in the present day? If so, will Magneto be a 100 year old villain? Will he have another origin story (which sounds exciting to me)?

So yeah, there are many questions. I have zero idea about how they'll do that. And I can say that I don't like the multiple universes idea. But would like to see the X-Men being introduced as an established team, so with the member already adults. However that depends a lot on how they'll be introduced.

Avengers 4 seems to be a game changer. One of the writers recently said that no prediction got close to what the movie is really about. Anyway, whatever it is that will happen in Avengers 4 that will change the MCU completely, I just hope it opens the door somehow for the mutants to be introduced. In a way that makes sense.

I think what makes the most sense and the cleanest way to do it is to introduce mutants to the world. Have something happen (likely to do with the fallout of Infinity War) that causes mutants to spawn on a mass-scale globally. Mutants have always existed in the MCU just in very smal numbers (this explains Charles, Erik, Logan, Raven, Victor, Apocalypse etc and it also explains why the Canadian-US government was able to get away with the Weapon X Program because there are so few mutants that they are completely under the radar. People like Nick Fury have allways known about). Whatever happens in Infinity War causes the X-Gene to be activated on a catalcsmic scale all around the world. At first people will be curious but all it takes is one mutant to commit an act of terrorism and that curiosity turns to fear and fear turns to hatred. Politicians begin responding (Enter Senator Kelly) and prejudice against mutants begins. This gives Charles a reason to create the X-Men team and it also causes Magneto find new purpose and step out of the shadows whenever Feige wants to introduce him in the MCU

 

[Marvel united]

@Marvel United, I still disagree.

I don't think Feige chose a teenager Peter just because his story started like that. If I remember correctly, he wanted a Peter in High school because some of the best stories were told back then. And honestly it makes sense for a solo character like Peter.

So I don't think they'll have a teenager Scott just because he was 15 years old in the first issue. Scott is not known as a teenager as much as Peter is.

But you know, as I said above, it all depends on how in the hell they'll introduce mutants. Because, let's be honest, it won't be easy in anyway.

I don't think mutants popping out of nowhere now will be the ideal. How would you explain a character like Charles and Eric for instance? Will they have to be introduced as teenagers too? If no, they'll have to admit mutants existed before. Powerful mutants.

You see? It won't be a easy task.

Spider-Man's most iconic stories that most people know about take place when he's in College. Similarly to Cyclops, Peter hasn't been in High-school since 1964. He has been an adult for the overwhelming majority of the comics. But here's the thing, High-school is ingrained within the character because of all of the subsequent versions, you're right. But so has the X-Men. Marvel opted to start Peter off at the very beginning of his superhero career because having an established, seasoned 29 year old Spider-Man show up out of the blue not only makes zero sense but it's bad writing and doesn't serve the MCU's bigger narrative.

In Iron Man 1, did we start the movie with Tony as 5 year veteran as Iron Man? No. He became Iron Man and he's been developing since his first movie. In Guardians of the Galaxy, did we start their first movie off as them a veteran team? No, we saw their beginnings and how they came together. Same for Stephen Strange being the Master of Mystics. Hell, Dr. Strange isn't even the Sorcer Supreme yet in the MCU, he's still developing into that version. Black Panther was about T'Challa becoming the king of Wakanda like he's known for in the comics. A different kind of origin story. Cap, Thor, etc You see a pattern here? Marvel does not start their main characters off years into their superhero careers. You always see these characters start from the beginning. What were the X-Men for the first 10 years of their run? Kids struggling with their powers trying to save the same people who hate and fear them. That alone makes the X-Men very different from the Avengers:

And even in Giant-Size - The X-Men were Early 20s.

 

[Lip]

Introducing Spider-Man as an established superhero wouldn't make sense, yes. But we need to keep in mind we're talking about a solo hero. Scott's introduction comes with a whole universe with him, so the comparisions with Pete needs to be limited.

Again, I have no clue how they'll introduce mutants in the MCU. But if they go to the path you suggested, you inevitably need to admit mutants existed before. So 1) Why can't Scott be one of this very few mutants that manifested his powers before? 2) Iron Man and Captain America for instance didn't have to start their superhero journey as a teenagers, why Scott has too? 3) The X-Men don't need to be kids to be "heroes stuggling with their powers". Scott doesn't have control of his, and so some other mutants like Rogue. 4) So if for whatever reason more mutants are uncontrollably popping out now, does that mean the majority of the X-universe needs to be introduced as teenagers? No, so it's not only older mutants like Charles, Eric and Logan that needs to be acknowledged as existing before, but also the majority of the X-Men characters, unless of course you want most of the characters as teenagers. 5) You still can't run away from questions like: what all those powerful beings were doing all this time? What was Charles doing when Thanos was trying to destroy the planet? Etc, etc, etc...

So I still don't think Scott needs to be introduced as a teenager at all. I believe, despite of how they'll introduce mutants, Marvel will take a lot of influence from the Animated Series. I can see a teenage character, preferably Kitty Pryde, acting like this character that serves as a point of view of the audience, introducing that universe for us. Just like Jubilee in the animated series. Finding out her powers, fiding out what mutants are, fiding out the X-Men, etc...

 

[Marvel united]

Introducing Spider-Man as an established superhero wouldn't make sense, yes. But we need to keep in mind we're talking about a solo hero. Scott's introduction comes with a whole universe with him, so the comparisions with Pete needs to be limited.

I'm talking about the whole team. And introducing an established X-Men makes even less than Spider-Man considering they operate on a much larger scale than him.

]
Again, I have no clue how they'll introduce mutants in the MCU. But if they go to the path you suggested, you inevitably need to admit mutants existed before. So 1) Why can't Scott be one of this very few mutants that manifested his powers before?

For the reasons i stated above. Scott being a veteran eliminates key character development that he went through in his early years. Charles and the rest of X-Men are not comparable. And the reason why the X-Men were created was so Charles could take these kids in and train them in a world that hate mutants. There were hundreds of young mutants struggling with their powers, Charles wanted to help them and He wanted to show humanity that mutants could be a force for good What reason would he have if hardly any exist?

2) Iron Man and Captain America for instance didn't have to start their superhero journey as a teenagers, why Scott has too?

That's like asking why Spider-Man has to start out as a teenager when Cap or Tony didn't have to. Those characters did not start out as teenagers and it did not define them like it defined the X-Men For years before Claremount took over.

3) The X-Men don't need to be kids to be "heroes stuggling with their powers". Scott doesn't have control of his, and so some other mutants like Rogue.

But that's what they originally were. That's one of the cores of the franchise in many ways. Hence the School for Gifted Youngster. And this separates them from the Avengers.

4) So if for whatever reason more mutants are uncontrollably popping out now, does that mean the majority of the X-universe needs to be introduced as teenagers? No, so it's not only older mutants like Charles, Eric and Logan that needs to be acknowledged as existing before, but also the majority of the X-Men characters, unless of course you want most of the characters as teenagers.

Everybody should not be teenagers. Even in the old X-Men books there were mutants much older. But the X-Men themselves and certain members of the Brotherhood should be kids. Because that's what they were. It's the hero's journey. You can't do that with a 30-something year old team that has had most of these character arcs and events happen off screen. It's why nobody in the MCU starts off years into being a hero.

You still can't run away from questions like: what all those powerful beings were doing all this time? What was Charles doing when Thanos was trying to destroy the planet? Etc, etc, etc...

Things like where was Charles and a lone wolf Wolveine when these things were happening can be explained much easier than an established X-Men not doing anything. For one, Thanos is omnipotent. There's nothing Charles could do against him alone

So I still don't think Scott needs to be introduced as a teenager at all. I believe, despite of how they'll introduce mutants, Marvel will take a lot of influence from the Animated Series. I can see a teenage character, preferably Kitty Pryde, acting like this character that serves as a point of view of the audience, introducing that universe for us. Just like Jubilee in the animated series. Finding out her powers, fiding out what mutants are, fiding out the X-Men, etc...

Or Marvel could let the audience be introduced to this world through the actual X-Mem themselves as they are discovering it since mutants should be a new phenomon in the MCU. Marvel should do what they've done with all of their characters so far. Make them relatable. What you're describing Is a rehash of what Singer did for X1. That would not work in the MCU for the stated reasons

 

[Jh7058622]

No young X-Men. If they want me to instantly dislike the direction that's the surefire way to making me instantly prefer Fox's version over the MCU.

 

[Lip]

We have to agree to disagree then because your answers didn't make any sense to me. Following your suggestion, you have to admit mutants existed before, which is already troubling, but fine. If Charles existed, I think it's a fair assumption that he was trying to help other mutants too. So the Institute already existing to teach some of these mutants to control their power and keep mutants a secret would also be a fair assumption. Scott being one of the first students and now acting like a teacher is something that makes sense to me (following your suggestion). So yeah, there are ways to make it work.

And we still strongly disagree in many levels. I don't think that what differentiates the X-Men from the Avengers is them being kids, as you said. I don't think the X-Men and the Brotherhood need to be kids. The New Mutants is the group of teenage mutants. And the idea that you can't do "hero's journey" with 30 years old characters is a bit crazy to me, considering Campbell brought this from mythologies where the heroes were not teenagers.

That would not work in the MCU for the stated reasons

Sorry, but that confidence is not enough to convince me.

 

[Frankeh]

All right here's my question to you Lip. Do you have Cyclops and Jean meet each other as adults? Or if Jean and Cyclops are already part of a seasoned team, do you introduce them as a couple like in the Original Trilogy and if so, how do you develop their relationship? Or maybe you have them be merely each others platonic "strictly teammates/friends", and only in the first movie do they "get it going"? As much as I think Cyclops should've played a pivotal role in X3: The Last Stand, I have to admit their relationship wasn't really well developed by that point.

Basically I think the easiest way to develop their relationship is to follow them from their initial meeting, to have them silently fall for each other, to being an official couple, etc. Like in the comics. Apocalypse started it well but it ended up inconsequential by the third act and I can't even picture what they're doing in the next movie to convince us Cyclops is willing to die for this woman.

 

[Jh7058622]

Marvel united your argument is decimated with one word: flashbacks. That's what they were going to do with the first X-Men film. They don't need to start as teens to understand their teen angst. They didn't need to do that with TAS and that is the most critically and fan favored version of the franchise.

 

[Marvel united]

We have to agree to disagree then because your answers didn't make any sense to me. Following your suggestion, you have to admit mutants existed before, which is already troubling, but fine. If Charles existed, I think it's a fair assumption that he was trying to help other mutants too. So the Institute already existing to teach some of these mutants to control their power and keep mutants a secret would also be a fair assumption. Scott being one of the first students and now acting like a teacher is something that makes sense to me (following your suggestion). So yeah, there are ways to make it work.

My original point was mainly about Scott and other X-Men character development. I will admit, the Xavier stuff is muddled but my argument against a veteran X-Men is not about him. Scott becoming a mentor/teacher to other students could be an awesome arc for him in LATER films. After we've seen him grow into that role. Did Tony Stark start the MCU as a veteran mentoring heroes? Uh, no. That didn't come until almost 10 years after the first Iron Man when he took Peter under his wing. Why rob the audience of years worth of stories for these characters. Why would Marvel do that when what makes the most sense Is going back to the beginning for the X-Men like they do for all of their franchises?

And we still strongly disagree in many levels. I don't think that what differentiates the X-Men from the Avengers is them being kids, as you said. I don't think the X-Men and the Brotherhood need to be kids. The New Mutants is the group of teenage mutants. And the idea that you can't do "hero's journey" with 30 years old characters is a bit crazy to me, considering Campbell brought this from mythologies where the heroes were not teenagers.

The New Mutants didn't come until almost 20 years after the X-Men were already established. They should not be used as a substitute for what the X-Men were for years. That's like saying theres no need for a 15 year old Peter Parker because we have Miles Morales. I agree, being kids is not the only thing that separates them from the Avengers. However, being a teenager struggling with your powers while protecting a world that hates you creates a completely different dynamic from the Avengers. That's what separated them from the Avengers in the 60s in the same way Spidey at his core, being an everyday kid dealing with normal problems separated him from the Avengers.

I'm not saying a 30 year old can't go on a hero's journey. What I'm saying is a 30 veteran superhero who has already went through a lot major story arcs from the comics leaves little room for a proper growth. The same logic could apply to a 20 year old who has been a hero 8 years when we first meet him. Has already fought most of his villains, have already gone through some of his most character defining moments.

Sorry, but that confidence is not enough to convince me.

I apologize, I should have elaborated. What I mean is, there can't be this huge "super secret world" of X-Men and mutants in the MCU because at this point, mutants are not a known commodity like they were in X1 and even then, there were thousands of mutants. Second point is going the viewpoint route is a rehash of X-Men as is starting Scott, Storm and Jean off as teachers.

 

[Lip]

All right here's my question to you Lip. Do you have Cyclops and Jean meet each other as adults? Or if Jean and Cyclops are already part of a seasoned team, do you introduce them as a couple like in the Original Trilogy and if so, how do you develop their relationship? Or maybe you have them be merely each others platonic "strictly teammates/friends", and only in the first movie do they "get it going"? As much as I think Cyclops should've played a pivotal role in X3: The Last Stand, I have to admit their relationship wasn't really well developed by that point.

Basically I think the easiest way to develop their relationship is to follow them from their initial meeting, to have them silently fall for each other, to being an official couple, etc. Like in the comics. Apocalypse started it well but it ended up inconsequential by the third act and I can't even picture what they're doing in the next movie to convince us Cyclops is willing to die for this woman.

Well, unlike Marvel United, I'm not here to state so surely what does work and what does not in the MCU. I don't know how they'll introduce mutants. I don't even have theories about it. I'm just trying to say Scott doesn't need to be introduced as a teenager to work. And I don't want to see that.

So answering your question, I honestly don't know how they'll approach. But it can work either way. Showing them meeting or showing them as established couple. TAS showed them as a couple and it worked. And they adapted Dark Phoenix later. They can use flashbacks too as Jh7058622 said.

I think also one other relevant question to be making is: how much is Marvel willing to show what Fox has already done? Especially more recently.

 

[Lip]

I'm not saying a 30 year old can't go on a hero's journey. What I'm saying is a 30 veteran superhero who has already went through a lot major story arcs from the comics leaves little room for a proper growth

But what are all those story arcs from the comics so iconic to Cyclops when he was a teenager that needs to be adapted onscreen so the character can work in the MCU?

What I mean is, there can't be this huge "super secret world" of X-Men and mutants in the MCU

But there is a super secret world of mutant according to your theory, that even Nick Fury knows about. And going by that you have to acknowledge that the majority of the X-Men characters existed before if you don't want all of them as teenagers discovering their powers, minus Charles, Logan, Eric and Apocalypse.


Anyway, we'll soon see how Marvel will approach that.

 

[Marvel united]

Marvel united your argument is decimated with one word: flashbacks. That's what they were going to do with the first X-Men film. They don't need to start as teens to understand their teen angst. They didn't need to do that with TAS and that is the most critically and fan favored version of the franchise.

1. X-Men TAS is not the end all to be all form of X-Men media. I loved that show growing up but I'd much rather MARVEL follow the comics in terms of character development.

2. That's lazy writing and robs the audience of actually going on this journey with these characters; actually becoming invested in these people. Marvel could've did exactly what you're describing with Spider-Man or Iron Man or Cap or Strange, completely skip the beginning of their journeys, jump right into them having been heroes for 15 years and show the past in flashbacks. But that's not the way they do things at Marvel Studios. Their track record with their heroes says more about how the X-Men will be handled than what X-Men: The Animated Series decided to do with the characters

 

[Frankeh]

I'm not a fan of flashbacks. Unless they're informing the story that's about to unfold, I'd rather do without them. Unless it was a character study kind of movie where the whole movie has flashbacks to inform you of a characters state of mind a la Wild (starring Reese Witherspoon) or Manchester by the Sea.