The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[ronny]

it happens all the time in the movies.
making the villain bigger ain't a sin. the problem is making him smaller.

But The Riddler is small!
His whole schtick is that he's a loser who wants to make the big leagues.

 

[Jolly C.]

exactly...if the villain were smaller then there wouldbe no point in the movie itself. The Joker is the one who starts it all and then people start to also take matters into there own hands and become super villains such as batman had copycats with guns...the same thing is happening with the joker he is the inspiration for future villains so the riddler should be a bigger villain than the joker because batman would have a bigger challenge a diffrent challenge which is how batman gets better at being batman

 

[Jick]

like I said...the problem is make him smaller.

 

[Jolly C.]

How could the riddler be small if hes smarter than batman?

 

[ronny]

How could the riddler be small if hes smarter than batman?

Because his compulsion to leave Riddlers means that he's destined to fail.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

It almost doesn't matter what Riddler's scheme is as long as he's obsessed with outsmarting Batman with a riddle that he thinks Batman can't solve. That's why he's called The Riddler after all.

But the riddles should never be easy for Batman to solve. He should be working his mind into OVERDRIVE to solve them and find out what the Riddler is planning to do.

As long as the Nolans have that in mind, I will be happy with how they use him if they use him.

 

[Jolly C.]

But he still is a challenge to batman

 

[The Batman]

But The Riddler is small!
His whole schtick is that he's a loser who wants to make the big leagues.

maybe for the hack comic writers of the past twenty years...thankfully, most media versions portray riddler as an actual threat...should he make it to b3, hopefully nolan will do the same

 

[Droogoonie789]

I'm not sure if I like the Fed idea. I think this should be a guy who appears to the outside world as a suave, sophisticated genius but returns to his dump of a loft to do nothing but eat Chinese take-out, play Minesweeper, and obsess on Batman and such. Instead of some anarchist ideals like the Joker where he doesn't care what other people think, he should be an insecure weakling who puts on a show for Gotham by leaving intricate riddles and such. I think the riddles should be like Da Vinci Code grand scale, taking Batman all over the place.

 

[Melkay]

I'm not sure if I like the Fed idea. I think this should be a guy who appears to the outside world as a suave, sophisticated genius but returns to his dump of a loft to do nothing but eat Chinese take-out, play Minesweeper, and obsess on Batman and such. Instead of some anarchist ideals like the Joker where he doesn't care what other people think, he should be an insecure weakling who puts on a show for Gotham by leaving intricate riddles and such. I think the riddles should be like Da Vinci Code grand scale, taking Batman all over the place.

Why can't he do all those things and still start as a federal agent? He puts on a show for Gotham while trying to catch Batman or learn his identity. And with his riddles, he leaves traps. Death traps. And innocent bystanders get killed. In his mind, he's not a killer. Batman is the one who wasn't smart enough to save them... he's just not good enough. If he is, then he's a challenge, maybe an intellectual equal... and finding out who that man is becomes an obssesion.

Everything you said works with the fed route. I really don't get the backlash at the idea.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

As long as Nigma (none of that Nashton crap) doesn't kill too many people though, it'd be way out of character to have him kill into the double digits in one film, I'd prefer to see him be a personal threat to Batman mostly.

 

[Melkay]

^ I second that.

 

[ronny]

As long as Nigma (none of that Nashton crap)

"Nashton crap"? The name is a million times better than Edward Nygma.
He actually sounds like a real human being now.

maybe for the hack comic writers of the past twenty years...thankfully, most media versions portray riddler as an actual threat...should he make it to b3, hopefully nolan will do the same

Listen, The Riddler is a threat because he isn't a threat.
I've eplained this before.

 

[Melkay]

Yeah, I'm actually more inclined to the Nashton side, but if Nolan can make it Nygma and get away with it, all the better. He is not God, though.

And how's that "he's a threat cuz' he's not a threat" rap again?

 

[Quinzel]

I've always been more of a Nashton person, Nygma is too much of a....concidence? Idk, him changing his name is one thing, but for him to be named E.Nygma, and concidentally be in love with riddles is a nother.

 

[Rasputin911]

Why can't he do all those things and still start as a federal agent? He puts on a show for Gotham while trying to catch Batman or learn his identity. And with his riddles, he leaves traps. Death traps. And innocent bystanders get killed. In his mind, he's not a killer. Batman is the one who wasn't smart enough to save them... he's just not good enough. If he is, then he's a challenge, maybe an intellectual equal... and finding out who that man is becomes an obssesion.

Everything you said works with the fed route. I really don't get the backlash at the idea.

Too bad Heath still isn't alive. If he were, a plotline could be Agent Nygma/Nashton arranging the Joker's escape from Arkham in order to lure Batman. But of course, he gets more than he bargained for.

I would still want to see him dealing secretly with criminals though (penguin/scarecrow?) to track down the Bat. Highlight how he really doesen't give a flying **** about justice, etc. Its all about him

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

"Nashton crap"? The name is a million times better than Edward Nygma.
He actually sounds like a real human being now.

You're right, how dare we have a man coincidentally called Edward Nigma in a world where a man dresses up as a flying bat and a japanese/chinese/american called Ra's Al Ghul of all things abound!

Please, who cares if it's a coincidence? The E.Nigma thing is the point, in one comic Eddie even reminds himself to thank his parents one day for the "Nice touch" regarding his namesake. It's a name, I really get sick of everyone trying to make everything so real and serious for these movies you can't even have a guy with a name like that. You ever read Ripley's Believe it or not? You should see some of the oddly appropriate namesakes they have in there? It's not implausible and it's fun.

Also, I'm not opposed to innocent bystanders gtting killed by Nigma, just as long as it wasn't planned, he takes no joy in it, and it doesn't go too far like into the double digits. Riddler is a threat to Batman, while another villain is a threat to Gotham.

 

[Crook]

It's not the name that's implausible. It's the name along with him coincidentally adopting the moniker of a riddle genius in his adulthood.

 

[kid dropper]

Yes, much like the similarly ridiculous idea of a man born with the name Victor Fries becoming a cryogenics expert. These concepts are of another time, some of them have to be changed to be taken seriously nowadays, especially in the context of the hyper-logical Nolanverse.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Yes, much like the similarly ridiculous idea of a man born with the name Victor Fries becoming a cryogenics expert. These concepts are of another time, some of them have to be changed to be taken seriously nowadays, especially in the context of the hyper-logical Nolanverse.

Hyper-logical? I think you need to watch the films again friend, there is nothing remotely logical about a man dressing up as a bat to fight crime. Yet it is done in a believable way. All you need to do is make reference to Riddler having changed his name at one point or having a parent who named him that while pushing him to become an intelligent man or something, it's not that hard. I think the real problem is that people are so obsessed with severing any roots with the original comics that they can't even accept a name like Edward Nigma, which is totally plausible.

 

[Crook]

Hyper-logical? I think you need to watch the films again friend, there is nothing remotely logical about a man dressing up as a bat to fight crime. Yet it is done in a believable way.

Hence being logical. BB laid everything out on the table for Batman existing in a plausible and reasoned manner. How could you possibly argue that Bruce's methods weren't logical?

All you need to do is make reference to Riddler having changed his name at one point

No one's arguing against this.

I think the real problem is that people are so obsessed with severing any roots with the original comics that they can't even accept a name like Edward Nigma, which is totally plausible.

Once again, you are confusing where people's problems are. It isn't the name.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Here's an idea I was toying around with, tell me what you guys think of it.

If Depp, or another youngerish actor gets cast as Riddler, what if the Riddler is portrayed like this:

Imagine a young businessman who suddenly takes the world by storm. He's making a killing in the stock markets, he's young, attractive, on top of the world. He's actually taking press away from Bruce Wayne. The guy's a complete charmer, a regular media darling.

Underneath it all, we realize he's a psychotic narcissist. He's funding and operating lots of black market schemes, and he's trying to gain control of the underworld at the same time he's trying to gain control of the buisness market. Bruce Wayne stands in his way of gaining control of the market, Batman stands in his way of the underworld.

So you have him frame Bruce Wayne for a murder, to try and force Bruce out of the way for him to grab his company, while at the same time forcing Bruce to go on the run. Now Bruce is in a whole lot of crap from both sides, on the run as Bats and Bruce Wayne. could do for an interesting dynamic.

Basically I kind of picture the Riddler as an anti-Bruce in this situation. A genius with an obsession, but this obsession is for power, not to help others, and his one weakness is his compulsion to leave behind riddles.

 

[The Batman]

It's a nice idea, but the thing is, people dont understand that we dont usually see the villains origin in Nolan's films, barring two face because that is a different situation. Thats why i dont get all these drastic revamps. Nolan leaves his villains' histories ambiguous because it fits his vision of having the air of reality. I like it this way, because while nolan dosent say ras is immortal, i can believe that he might be. i can believe that nolans scarecrow has the same backstory as the comics.

 

[Mistah K88]

I prefer the Name Nygma as well. It proves that R|iddler can't do anything criminal without linking it to him. He can't even create a good moniker for crime without basically telling you that it is him.

I also agree with the motion that Riddler shouldn't be a murderer as it isn't his style. Plus, Joker stole that whole leaving clues on who's going to be murdered schtick in TDK.

I prefer the Riddler as a criminal rather than a fed/investigator. I believe that he plays games with people like the police (maybe even the mob) to show that he is untouchable. He doesn't even care about Batman until Wayne gets involved and starts solving his riddles and beating him. Then the obsession to find out who Batman is and prove his superiority begins.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Here's an idea I was toying around with, tell me what you guys think of it.

If Depp, or another youngerish actor gets cast as Riddler, what if the Riddler is portrayed like this:

Imagine a young businessman who suddenly takes the world by storm. He's making a killing in the stock markets, he's young, attractive, on top of the world. He's actually taking press away from Bruce Wayne. The guy's a complete charmer, a regular media darling.

Underneath it all, we realize he's a psychotic narcissist. He's funding and operating lots of black market schemes, and he's trying to gain control of the underworld at the same time he's trying to gain control of the buisness market. Bruce Wayne stands in his way of gaining control of the market, Batman stands in his way of the underworld.

So you have him frame Bruce Wayne for a murder, to try and force Bruce out of the way for him to grab his company, while at the same time forcing Bruce to go on the run. Now Bruce is in a whole lot of crap from both sides, on the run as Bats and Bruce Wayne. could do for an interesting dynamic.

Basically I kind of picture the Riddler as an anti-Bruce in this situation. A genius with an obsession, but this obsession is for power, not to help others, and his one weakness is his compulsion to leave behind riddles.

Interesting ideas, Infinity, so a few constructive (I hope) criticisms are in order: First of all, I take issue with referring to any 45-year-old actor as "youngerish." Second, while framing Bruce might indeed make for an interesting dynamic, I would rather let the whole Batman-as-a-fugitive thing play out on its own; they don't need to make Bruce a fugitive too in order to make it more dramatic or epic or complex. Third, your take on Nygma as a stock market aficianado who runs black market schemes under the table sounds like applying the Nolan-Scarecrow set-up to Riddler, which seems IMO to make Riddler a secondary villain who works behind the scenes for most of the story, rather than the primary like Joker was. I'd rather see Nygma as the main threat.