The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[aaronil]

What if the Riddler is introduced under an alias as an FBI special agent serving as liason with the MCU in the Batman manhunt. However, his past as master con artist Edward Nashton only is revealed much later - it was his neurosis that enabled the Feds to catch him. I see him as an OCD villain with a distorted code; for example he avoids killing, but when someone is killed in his death trap when another captive tries to escape, he ruthlessly beats the survivor for "causing" the others' death.

Apparently the Feds were so impressed with Nashton that he was brought on board to crack their unsolvable cases. MCU has been tearing the city upside down to find Batman, but to no avail, and after something goes seriously wrong the new DA calls in the FBI. Nashton is strategically sent in as an innocuous and eccentric information gatherer, as the FBI is concerned about the extreme measures of some police. Nashton is supposed to crack the case then turn it over to his superiors to apprehend the Batman. To this end, he invents a criminal persona "The Riddler" and stages crimes to lure out the Batman into death traps. Nashton earns the trust of the MCU by helping apprehend a serial killer (Zsaz? Holiday?). During his investigation, Nashton comes to see the Batman as embodying the dark secrets of Gotham; it later becomes clear to the audience that Nashton derives a sick sense of satisfaction by besting other criminals because it allows him to "redeem" himself with his genius. Perhaps he committed a terrible crime he feels guilty for?

In comparing the Riddler to Ra's al-Ghul ("Gotham you are evil, I'll destroy you all") and the Joker ("Gotham you are evil, you'll destroy yourselves"), the Riddler says "Gotham you are complicit in an evil (Batman) which will destroy you." So Riddler is trying to reveal Batman as the enemy of Gotham and orchestrate scenarios where Batman's actions hurt Gotham's citizens and pit them against Batman.

How about that?

 

[Rasputin911]

^Well, maybe i'm just blazed but that seems pretty damn profound....

 

[MadVillainy]

Your logic is nonexistent. The Riddler is a far better villain that the three you mentioned put together. Who says a villain must kill lots and lots or be insane to be great?

Mayber not kill but i mean seriously what can Riddler's master plot be. He wants to unmask Batman?...been done.
What has Riddler ever done that is important. Side with Hush (lame). Hes been beat up by Hush, Poison Ivy. He cant fight or anything. His whole origin is stupid too. (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Nashton_(New_Earth))
Riddler is just a weak villain considering what other villains our left in the Batman rouge gallery
When you skin his whole motif down to its bone...Hes just a theif who wants to know who Batman is. And I agree Deathshot and Bane is are mediocre villains but even there mediocrity is still better than Riddler at his best.

 

[I Am The Knight]

What if the Riddler is introduced under an alias as an FBI special agent serving as liason with the MCU in the Batman manhunt. However, his past as master con artist Edward Nashton only is revealed much later - it was his neurosis that enabled the Feds to catch him. I see him as an OCD villain with a distorted code; for example he avoids killing, but when someone is killed in his death trap when another captive tries to escape, he ruthlessly beats the survivor for "causing" the others' death.

Apparently the Feds were so impressed with Nashton that he was brought on board to crack their unsolvable cases. MCU has been tearing the city upside down to find Batman, but to no avail, and after something goes seriously wrong the new DA calls in the FBI. Nashton is strategically sent in as an innocuous and eccentric information gatherer, as the FBI is concerned about the extreme measures of some police. Nashton is supposed to crack the case then turn it over to his superiors to apprehend the Batman. To this end, he invents a criminal persona "The Riddler" and stages crimes to lure out the Batman into death traps. Nashton earns the trust of the MCU by helping apprehend a serial killer (Zsaz? Holiday?). During his investigation, Nashton comes to see the Batman as embodying the dark secrets of Gotham; it later becomes clear to the audience that Nashton derives a sick sense of satisfaction by besting other criminals because it allows him to "redeem" himself with his genius. Perhaps he committed a terrible crime he feels guilty for?

In comparing the Riddler to Ra's al-Ghul ("Gotham you are evil, I'll destroy you all") and the Joker ("Gotham you are evil, you'll destroy yourselves"), the Riddler says "Gotham you are complicit in an evil (Batman) which will destroy you." So Riddler is trying to reveal Batman as the enemy of Gotham and orchestrate scenarios where Batman's actions hurt Gotham's citizens and pit them against Batman.

How about that?

I like. Where do I sign?

 

[Ryan]

What about having Riddler in the role Calender Man had in The Long Halloween see Hannibal in Silence of the lambs, spacey in usual suspects or norton in primal fear.. That way the Riddler is not the main villain causing crimes but instead plays a pivotal role in the movie with an evil twist at the end. Riddler is cerebral and other then the way Spacey played John Doe in Seven...where you never really saw him do anything physical...I can't see him being protrayed as much of physical threat to anyone. Just my thoughts.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Mayber not kill but i mean seriously what can Riddler's master plot be. He wants to unmask Batman?...been done.
What has Riddler ever done that is important. Side with Hush (lame). Hes been beat up by Hush, Poison Ivy. He cant fight or anything. His whole origin is stupid too. (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Nashton_(New_Earth))
Riddler is just a weak villain considering what other villains our left in the Batman rouge gallery
When you skin his whole motif down to its bone...Hes just a theif who wants to know who Batman is. And I agree Deathshot and Bane is are mediocre villains but even there mediocrity is still better than Riddler at his best.

The problem is you're equating dangerousness with character. I would'nt be such a Killer Moth fan if I did that, because pathetic as he is, he's a riot everytime he appears in a comic. Riddler doesn't have a definitive origin, I could give you links to atleast four different versions. Unlike other villains, what's cool about him is that he chose to become the Riddler without tragedy, and depite the larger than life persona and riddle games he really just wnats the world to see his intelligence, and maybe get rich and beat The Dark Knight along the way. It's not about importance, otherwise Death in the Family and War Crimes would be considered great stories, it's about the character, and how his obsession becomes his undoing, and how Batman must not use his fists in this instance, but his brains.

The only reason he might not be fit for a Nolan film is because he's set the standard to high with both films being city destroying plots. Call the comics unrealistic all you like but really this excludes a lot of potential. another reason why I believe the Riddler is the perfect character to ground the film, and make it about character than larger than life instances, a more grounded film that has revelations on the core characters. There's nothing wrong with the Riddler though.

 

[COMPO]

what if Riddler's true motive is to control Gotham like, control the mob, control the police and control the batman. Like he could institute a gang war and impecinate an FBI agent to get into the police force as a special task agent to help stop it and starts causing rifts within the department turning people against Gordon and also works with Black Mask and Penguin to start a gnag war and then have him have Black Mask to unite all the gnags in Gotham into one leader who he has control of with Penguin in charge of all the arms and imports of Gotham. So with causing rifts within Gotham he has control of the police and the mayor and also has control of the mob through Black Mask and Penguin.

 

[Two-Face]

I hope The Riddler won't find out who Batman is, I mean it's been done.

 

[I Am The Knight]

He has a question mark scar on his face?

...

 

[ronny]

I hope The Riddler won't find out who Batman is, I mean it's been done.

Agreed. That's a terribe cliche for a superhero movie and not knowing who Batman is only strengthens The Riddler character. Because that question drives him nuts.

 

[Jolly C.]

u know how the riddler gets in a coma from fighting batman in the comics? the climax could be riddler finding out who batman is but then at the last second he gets knocked out somehow and forgets the whole thing

 

[BlueLightning]

Much Deus Ex Machina?

 

[COMPO]

I hope The Riddler won't find out who Batman is, I mean it's been done.

be good if he comes close and its almost as if we almost believe he knows and really he's got the wrong person.

Agreed. That's a terribe cliche for a superhero movie and not knowing who Batman is only strengthens The Riddler character. Because that question drives him nuts.

its only recent superhero films they've found out. I mean superman and Batman the bad guys didnt know its only been BF Spiderman and daredevil taht have followed that pattern.

u know how the riddler gets in a coma from fighting batman in the comics? the climax could be riddler finding out who batman is but then at the last second he gets knocked out somehow and forgets the whole thing

thats kinda to cliche I mean people have seen it too many times on Smallville. but would be a good ending to see Riddle knowing he knew Btamn's identity and sat in Arkham going through names of people who could be Batman and being frustrated when he realises he doesn't know.

 

[Jolly C.]

i think that would pretty cool...i dont really see any other climax for the riddler unless he gets killed

 

[ronny]

its only recent superhero films they've found out. I mean superman and Batman the bad guys didnt know its only been BF Spiderman and daredevil taht have followed that pattern.

But in Batman '89 Bruce pretty much revealed his identity to The Joker. And in Batman Returns both Catwoman and Max Shreck find out who he is.
It's been a long running problem.

 

[Jolly C.]

well if the riddler could actually find out who he is and then tries to reveal it and as soon as he does he gets knocked out and looses his memory of it and that i think would be someone coming close to revealing who batman is then fails and so he can get obsessed with batmans identity after that and his purpose would still be there

 

[jmc]

The Riddler's driving force should be trying to find out who Batman is, and with every trap that he lays that Batman avoids, he grows more and more frustrated, resulting in more elaborate and dangerous traps. Essentially over the coarse of the story Riddler's ego becomes his downfall, I can sort of imagine a scene at the climax where Riddler has a hostage and Batman says he'll reveal his identity to save the hostage, but the Riddler refuses coz to him that would mean defeat, for someone who has used his intelligence to be one step ahead of everyone his entire life, failing to solve such a simple puzzle as finding out who Batman is would be a more striking blow than any kick to the head. So Riddler should never find out who Batman is, the character becomes more of a threat if he doesn't.

 

[Jolly C.]

i see what you r saying and it sounds solid...i was thinking that the riddler at that point actually knows who batman is then in some sort of accident or fight he gets knocked out before he can reveal batmans identity which then he develops amnesia which he thinks he knows who batman is but cant remember who which would drive him to be more obsessed with batman

 

[COMPO]

what if Riddler was just a PI who tried to help with the hunt against Batman but because he is just a PI. But, he is quite smart and knows about everything in Gotham and has OCD. He's now obsessed in finding out Batman through his own interlect to show GCPD that he is the man they needed to find Batman. But, I think it would be good that like in Hush he uses villains to fight Batman so he can analyse Batman and he starts to doubt whether Batman is a killer because Batman doesn't kill them. So he knows Batman as a killer is lie yet still wants to know who Batman is. Plus, he would send riddles at the his bat traps so taht the police will know he found out who Batman is.

 

[ronny]

I'd love it if we were first introduced to The Riddler as he visits Mr. Reese.
I can imagine Reese running off to some trailer park and living in fear of The Joker coming back. It would be an interesting scene.
Perhaps taking us through a lot of Riddler's personality quirks.

 

[brinomite]

ill be outcast for saying this, but i dont really wanna see riddler in the 3rd film. However, i do find it somewhat, again, SOMEWHAT coincidental that depp and bale are starring in a film together this year. all i have to say.

however, i feel as though michael pitt seems a bit too 'joker-like' in his appearance. He can really look like a sicko when he wants.

 

[BlueLightning]

You are not alone. There are plenty of people who doesn´t want the Riddler in 3. I, on the other hand, think that the Riddler is the logical way to go, and Nolan would do a terrific job in bringing him to life.

 

[brinomite]

You are not alone. There are plenty of people who doesn´t want the Riddler in 3. I, on the other hand, think that the Riddler is the logical way to go, and Nolan would do a terrific job in bringing him to life.

Well thank you for being rational...iyou could be right, i'm just getting extremely frustrated with people demanding a certain villain, it seems like SM3 amd venom. F*** riddler. There is plenty of backstory to be told in the 3rd film if there is one. e.g, bruce visiting his parents' grave...chased by corrupt police, the list goes on. I was just personally really turned off by the fact that after the midnight showing of TDK, walking out of the theatre people were already appointing villains for the next incarnation of Nolans' films and such...it almost seemed like the film wasn't appreciated to a certain extent.

 

[Iceburgeruk]

Who thinks it would be cool if as a humurous brief sub-plot in the span of a minute riddler figures out who batman is.

 

[Ryan]

Too bad you can't photoshop movies. I used to imagine the movie Seven as being Batman's (freeman) last crusade with robin (pitt) against the Riddler (spacey). Not a fan of robin or pitt for that matter, but Spacey plays his character as both physically weak but mentally challenging. However I wouldn't want Spacey now as he already did a lame Luthor in Superman and to me, would be too old to play the nemesis to Bale. Still, I'd be excited to see how Nolan does the Riddler....if he uses him.