Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Herr Logan]

Well you guys have pretty much covered everything thoroughly

But I'll add this.When fighting the villains,meaning level bosses,I would try to make it as close to the comics as possible.

For example when fighting the Joker,he would use all his nasty tricks like long barrelled guns,squirt streams of acid from his breast pocket flower,throw Joker bombs at you,try and spray smilex gas at you.The whole lot.

When fighting the Penguin,you'd not only have to avoid his many deadly umbrella weapons like machine gun,flame thrower,gas,knife,electricity,but you'd also have to avoid attacks from his trained killer birds.

See villains like those guys don't offer much in the way of physical strength.They rely more on their nasty toys,so it makes it harder to get in there to lay the pain on them,because you're counter acting all their deadly tricks.But with bosses like Catwoman,Clayface or Bane.There's none of that kind of stuff.It's purely physical with them.

Absolutely. While the Penguin's role in the game will mostly be as the proprietor of a location chock full of good underworld information (good opportunities for dialogue between him and his associates, good place to get information from the Penguin himself and others), there will have to be at least one huge battle with the Penguin himself, with his full arsenal at his disposal. I envision the Batman chasing the Penguin throughout the uppr offices of his nightclub and then probably into the club itself, while Cobblepot pulls hidden umbrellas from all over the building and shoots at you (while you should take cover and wait) until he's satisfied that you aren't coming after him for the moment, then he'll keep running. You'd have to avoid his shots as well as try to disarm him each time he has an umbrella, in which case he'll immediately start running to his next weapon even as the current umbrella is knocked from his hands, before you can hit him with a Batarang, disable him with a gas pellet or tie him up with a bola. Also, if you throw a flashbang at him while he's firing at you, he'll open the canopy and protect his eyes. If you throw a tear gas capsule, he'll extrude a miniature, powerful fan from the tip of the umbrella, in front of the canopy He'll also protect himself from Batarangs and shuriken with the Kevlar fabric of the the parasols. Perhaps ricocheting a 'rang off the wall or ceiling can hit him and make him lower or drop his weapon. Any any case, I'm thinking it'll be one of those scenarios where the enemy is untouchable until a certain point. When that point is reached and the Penguin stands his ground, then you have a real window to put a hurtin' on him. Taunts and curses from the Penguin will occur throughout the whole sequence, of course.
At some point during that battle sequence, birds will trained killer birds will attack you, but those birds should also be used repeatedly almost every time you get caught sneaking around or just outside the Iceberg Lounge. That's why you have to be especially careful when doing surveillance there.

The Batman should fight the Joker twice at the very least. During at least of of the fights, the Joker should have all his tricks and toys with him. Perhaps a huge fight in an amusement park funhouse. Maybe the one featured in 'The Killing Joke'? The Joker is also pretty strong, because he's crazy and barely feels pain. He's not as strong as say, Two-Face, but he's pretty formidable, and he fights dirty.

By the way, Clayface isn't as simple as a physical fight, obviously. What do you think of my proposals for that fight earlier?

Thanks for posting, Doc.

 

[The Joker]

Absolutely. While the Penguin's role in the game will mostly be as the proprietor of a location chock full of good underworld information (good opportunities for dialogue between him and his associates, good place to get information from the Penguin himself and others), there will have to be at least one huge battle with the Penguin himself, with his full arsenal at his disposal. I envision the Batman chasing the Penguin throughout the uppr offices of his nightclub and then probably into the club itself, while Cobblepot pulls hidden umbrellas from all over the building and shoots at you (while you should take cover and wait) until he's satisfied that you aren't coming after him for the moment, then he'll keep running. You'd have to avoid his shots as well as try to disarm him each time he has an umbrella, in which case he'll immediately start running to his next weapon even as the current umbrella is knocked from his hands, before you can hit him with a Batarang, disable him with a gas pellet or tie him up with a bola. Also, if you throw a flashbang at him while he's firing at you, he'll open the canopy and protect his eyes. If you throw a tear gas capsule, he'll extrude a miniature, powerful fan from the tip of the umbrella, in front of the canopy He'll also protect himself from Batarangs and shuriken with the Kevlar fabric of the the parasols. Perhaps ricocheting a 'rang off the wall or ceiling can hit him and make him lower or drop his weapon. Any any case, I'm thinking it'll be one of those scenarios where the enemy is untouchable until a certain point. When that point is reached and the Penguin stands his ground, then you have a real window to put a hurtin' on him. Taunts and curses from the Penguin will occur throughout the whole sequence, of course.
At some point during that battle sequence, birds will trained killer birds will attack you, but those birds should also be used repeatedly almost every time you get caught sneaking around or just outside the Iceberg Lounge. That's why you have to be especially careful when doing surveillance there.

Very cool idea Penguin often uses his umbrellas to deflect attacks from Batman.I even once recall him stopping Batman from diving on him once with one by opening the umbrella and deflecting him,as the umbrella had steel re-enforced ribs.

Also the Penguin has umbrellas that can fly.So I'm sure they could be used too.It would make the Penguin all the more difficult to keep up with too,as he's not as agile on his feet as the Batman is.

The Batman should fight the Joker twice at the very least. During at least of of the fights, the Joker should have all his tricks and toys with him. Perhaps a huge fight in an amusement park funhouse. Maybe the one featured in 'The Killing Joke'? The Joker is also pretty strong, because he's crazy and barely feels pain. He's not as strong as say, Two-Face, but he's pretty formidable, and he fights dirty.

The Joker can swallow alot of pain yes.Batman has beat the living s*** out of him many times before,and he's still standing.But as a fighter,he's not the best.He rarely relies on fisticuffs to combat Batman.

Most times he doesn't even try to fight back if Batman manages to grab him.He normally uses some nasty toy to hurt Batman,causing him to release Joker.

I don't know if you ever played the Batman game on the Super Nintendo based on the 90's cartoon.Well in that,the Joker's level was based in an amusement park.And in one confrontation you have to fight Joker on a roller coaster which he's escaped on.

Really cool.Not only do you have to combat Joker and avoid his nasty toys,but you also have to keep yourself from falling off the coaster car.Great fight.

By the way, Clayface isn't as simple as a physical fight, obviously. What do you think of my proposals for that fight earlier?

Well yes I know Clayface is not purely physical.Because he's not a normal man.He has super powers,in which Batman relies on his own toys to counter act.

I loved your ideas for that fight.What would your confrontation for Catwoman be??

Thanks for posting, Doc.

No prob.

Glad I could contribute again after so long

 

[Herr Logan]

Very cool idea Penguin often uses his umbrellas to deflect attacks from Batman.I even once recall him stopping Batman from diving on him once with one by opening the umbrella and deflecting him,as the umbrella had steel re-enforced ribs.

Also the Penguin has umbrellas that can fly.So I'm sure they could be used too.It would make the Penguin all the more difficult to keep up with too,as he's not as agile on his feet as the Batman is.

Flying umbrella? I'll... think about it.

The Joker can swallow alot of pain yes.Batman has beat the living s*** out of him many times before,and he's still standing.But as a fighter,he's not the best.He rarely relies on fisticuffs to combat Batman.

Most times he doesn't even try to fight back if Batman manages to grab him.He normally uses some nasty toy to hurt Batman,causing him to release Joker.

I don't know if you ever played the Batman game on the Super Nintendo based on the 90's cartoon.Well in that,the Joker's level was based in an amusement park.And in one confrontation you have to fight Joker on a roller coaster which he's escaped on.

Really cool.Not only do you have to combat Joker and avoid his nasty toys,but you also have to keep yourself from falling off the coaster car.Great fight.

I loved your ideas for that fight.What would your confrontation for Catwoman be??

I'm not sure there would be one. She's pretty much reformed. Then again, if she were dosed with small amounts of fear gas and, in the midst of the frame-job-inspired Bat-hunt, told certain lies about the Batman having to do with his intentions toward her neighborhood (I forget which part of Gotham, but she basically protects it on her own) and herself... That's something to think about.

The obvious choice for a confrontation with Catwoman is a rooftop chase either preceded or followed by a fight, and I'm sure there's some way of working that in while still keepiung the premise I just mentioned. The Batman wouldn't run away from an enraged, drugged Catwoman as she might be a danger to the public, and he hardly needs to in the first place. She's an impressive fighter, and she held her own against Lady Shiva for about a minute and a half, but the Batman is the superior martial artist. It would be her drug-induced rage that would make her especially dangerous.

No prob.

Glad I could contribute again after so long

Glad you could, too.

 

[Zev]

Herr, if you don't want to use Joker, Ra's Al Ghul, or Red Hood as the master villain, might I suggest you go old school (REALLY old school) and use Hugo Strange? He knows Batman's secret identity and would definitely come as a delightful surprise to knowledgeable fans.

 

[Herr Logan]

Herr, if you don't want to use Joker, Ra's Al Ghul, or Red Hood as the master villain,

I thought I said I was okay with the Red Hood being the mastermind?

In any case, I'm mostly okay with Jason Todd being the "big bad" here. The biggest issue here is that he is supposed to be an anti-hero and not a straight-up villain. He's not interested in destroying Gotham City, is he? If he helped other villains break out of Arkham Asylum and one or two from Stonegate Penetentiary (Deadshot isn't crazy, so he gets put there), ran the Batman down to exhaustion, crippled his street-level information network, set the cops on his ass, distracted him with Bruce Wayne problems, and basically let the Joker kill large amounts of people, that would constitute him being just as bad as the villains, and there's a huge conflict of interest there. Then again, I'm still confused about what his part in the whole 'Hush' storyline was. Why was he collaborating there? If someone can satisfy that question definitively, then all the rest can be worked around. If Todd really is cracked enough to actively mastermind and conspire with the rogues, as well as stand by while hundreds (or thousands) of people are marked for death, then he's a good candidate.

If the Red Hood is the main guy, then the Joker's part in all this should be very indirectly related, if related at all. If Todd hated the Batman more than the Joker, then he could simply make sure the Joker had a chance at freedom so as to make the Batman's miserable life more miserable. The Joker wouldn't even have to know about it. He'd be marginalized from the group, basically. The Red Hood's plan would include most of the rogues gallery, but the ones for which I see specific parts to play are Riddler, Scarecrow and Hush. The Scarecrow would expose various key players in Gotham (like Gordon, possibly most of the GCPD, Catwoman, and others) to small doses of fear toxins, Hush would somehow infect the Batman with some kind of virus that weakens his performance (which will be alluded to most times that the player screws up or isn't doing well enough, as well as actively enforced by the computer in one or two sections), and the Riddler would lead the Batman on what ultimately amounts to a wild goose chase and then lead him into a locked-down house full of death traps and riddles. The other major events of the game (the killing of the street informants, the breakouts, etc.) can be perpetrated by Scarface, Two Face and Deadshot, although the two former villains will have their own schemes going throughout the game. The Red Hood would be directing several of these events with inside information on the Batman and Bruce Wayne. I can't think of a direct reason for every villain besides the Joker to be in the conspiracy, but either they will have one or they'll be present as independent threats.

The Joker would actually have a very big role in this game, since he'd be free to do what he does best, threaten lives, make good on threats, and drive the Batman crazy with his shenanigans. We'd be talking about a high potential body count, and a decent sized actual body count. I would have the Batman search for the Joker at every major/classic hideout or crime scene in Gotham he's ever used (the amusement park in 'The Killing Joke,' the aquarium from the laughing fish story, etc.). A combination of FMVs and in-game memory visions (a la 'The Suffering') would recount the greatest exploits of the Joker. So he won't be a bit player like he was in 'Hush.' He'd just be mostly on his own (aside from Harley Quinn and the dozens of idiots who think working for the Joker could ever be a good idea). He is antisocial, you know.

might I suggest you go old school (REALLY old school) and use Hugo Strange? He knows Batman's secret identity and would definitely come as a delightful surprise to knowledgeable fans.

Hugo Strange? Isn't he long past dead? If he's still alive (and that shall not be recognized by me if he was definitively killed), then there's certainly room for him, too.


By the way, I've been playing 'Still Life' today, and it features crime scene evidence collecting early on. This game is so. God. Damn. Slow. That I can't stand it, but I can still learn how certain things can be done. It's just the first game I've played where you actually use forensic swabs, tweezers, blacklight filters and luminol. The Batman would have all these things (although his blacklight should be a miniaturized device, not a broad filter panel you place over those floor-standing lights they set up at crime scenes) in his kit, and more. Actually, does anyone know if it's possible to have blacklight vision in lenses? I haven't read anything about the Batman using such devices, but it seems like a cool idea to me. His infrared vision would pick up the IR paint marker he uses, and blacklight vision would pick up bloodstains after spraying luminol.
Anyway, if there was a competent programmer, and this was in the future (which it obviously would have to be, unless one of you has a time machine and is willing to share... please?), then the gameplay for everything would go much faster. Hell, it would have to! Imagine seeing riddles scrawled in blood that you can only see after spraying luminol and turning on the blacklight!

Okay, perhaps the game would have to get a "Mature" rating in order to fully portray the villains (the Riddler wouldn't have been the one who actually rubbed blood on the walls, he'd just write the scripts for the riddles... don't think I'm adding macabre elements to his character or anything...). I don't want there to be any cursing outside of what's allowed in the comics, because this is supposed to reflect life in the Batman's world, not life in our world or in the universe of movies like 'Se7en' or 'Saw'. I just want to be able to show the same amount of gore and blood that is allowed in the mainstream comics. It shouldn't look cartoony, though. The animation should be as realistic as is reasonable. The Batman's costume, for instance, would include the cowl (with lenses) and cape from 'Batman Returns,' but a dark grey bodysuit and black trunks, gloves and boots. Anyway, I just want to maintain a balance of real-world realism and superhero crime fiction and make it available to most Batman fans. To be honest, though, the rating won't matter much in terms of who's "allowed" to buy the game. The target audience for this type of game and Batman comics is actually mostly over 18, isn't it? Whatever.

Thoughts?

 

[Zev]

Red Hood's motive, as far as I see it, is to break Batman down to the point where he has to kill. To wear him down physically and emotionally to the point where Batman's only choice is to concede that Red Hood is right, that Red Hood's vigilantism is the only way. As for setting free all the villains, well, you've gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, right?

I too would see the Joker more of a wild card. No discriminating cadre of criminals would include him, because he's completely insane and just as likely to slaughter them as help them.

 

[Herr Logan]

Red Hood's motive, as far as I see it, is to break Batman down to the point where he has to kill. To wear him down physically and emotionally to the point where Batman's only choice is to concede that Red Hood is right, that Red Hood's vigilantism is the only way. As for setting free all the villains, well, you've gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, right?

That sounds plausible. It would have to be made clear that Todd has truly lost all sense of what he used to believe in. I don't mean in terms of that he's willing to kill villains, but that he's willing to endanger and aid in killing innocents to prove a point. There would have to be a whole bunch of words exchanged between the Batman and the Red Hood, before and during their final battle. I wouldn't want some half-assed revelation that led into a fast-paced, hectic battle with a few taunts thrown in.

I too would see the Joker more of a wild card. No discriminating cadre of criminals would include him, because he's completely insane and just as likely to slaughter them as help them.

Exactly.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'd like to announce that, after a discussion with Doc Ock, I fully endorse having the Penguin escape (or attempt to escape) the Batman's reach via a helicopter-umbrella. It will be a very large umbrella to begin with, and the shaft will extend downward, the handle will jut out to give Oswald a foothold, the ribs will extend outward and laterally to become a decent propeller. God only knows where a motor powerful enough to lift a 200+ lb. crime lord will be hidden, but that's negligable. The Penguin shall fly, and it will be good.

 

[Herr Logan]

Some questions for evidence collecting, analyzing and following up in 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective':

Well? What say you good people about "blacklight vision" being a setting on the Batman's binoculars, or possibly even the starlite lenses (which primarily are just toggled nightvision)? When viewing an area sprayed with luminol, should he use a separate blacklight, which is a more traditional approach?

Actually, it just occurred to me that perhaps luminol shouldn't play much of a role in his crime scene kit. When the Batman gets to a crime scene before the police do, he always tries to compromise the scene as little as humanly possible, so as not to screw things up for the cops. If he to a violent crime scene first, spraying luminol may or may not compromise the admissibility of evidence found there. If the Batman gets to the scene after the police have been there, the CSI team would likely have used luminol already, so all the Batman needs is a blacklight (and total darkness before turning it on).

Three possible ways around that:

1. someone (possibly even I, once I stop being such a lazy bastard) figures out that it's not the end of the world is a crime scene is already sprayed with luminol and shows no obvious signs of "staging" or planting evidence;
2. we ignore the consequences of such actions outright;
3. the Batman uses luminol only after the CSI team is done with the scene (unless they've already done it), and specifically when he gets a hunch that there's more blood here than the eye can see.

By the way, I should point out that I'm aware that luminol does not react with blood to a CSI's satisfaction within seconds in real life, that can either be ignored (similarly to the procedural conflict mentioned earlier) on the basis that this is a superhero/sci-fi story as well as a crime fiction story, or circumvented by that same reasoning in saying that the Batman has developed or obtained some kind of super-duper, instant results-getting formula. Call it "Bat-luminol" if you have to, but not in the menu or computer in the game.

Many of the weapons and utility devices I listed earlier should appear with the "Bat" prefix in an official capacity in the game, even though the Batman won't always refer to them as such in his speech. It may seem corny, but the reason I list them that way is because it denotes that these devices are not typical of their general type. These are modified and/or enhanced versions, specifically tailored to the Batman's needs. It's not a regular bola. A regular bola would likely break the legs, arms or ribs of whomever you wrapped it around, whereas the Batman's are meant to simply incapacitate without undue harm. Thus, they are "Bat-bolas"! They're not Flexicuffs or Ty-cuffs. The nylon bodies of the strips are laced with sapphire and metal, and they need a diamond-edged cutting tool to remove them. Thus, they are "Bat-cuffs"! They're not regular boomerangs or shuriken, dammit. They're shaped like bats and thrown by a guy who also looks like a bat. Thus... you get the idea. It's not meant to be cheesy (well, maybe just a little...), it's meant to be precise.

Thoughts on all of that?


Moving on...
The Batman's crime scene kit would have tweezers (the best damn state-of-the-art forensic tweezers ever made, of course!), with which he would collect hair and fiber samples. As far as fiber samples go, I'm not sure how exactly that's supposed to play out. This isn't a linear game where you'll only be looking at just one, two or three crime scenes and following what ends up as being one big case to the end. There are dozens of crime scenes, hopefully each a little different from the last. I'm not even sure how a real CSI unit would use fibers from a coat, shirt or other piece of clothing left at a crime scene in a very large city, unless it was some very rare specimen.

Now, there will be some "gimme's" along the way in terms of forensic science work. If you find a piece of burlap and/or straw in an area where there isn't much of either and your odor-analyzing chromatograph detects the faintest trace of a psychotropic gas, then you know who your #1 suspect is (not necessarily the only one, though). If you find a green hair and/or traces of a specific kind of acid, and/or purple polyester fibers, you know who was there.

Still, most of the "small" cases will have you examining either crime scenes or possible locations for vital evidence of bigger schemes (sometimes mentioned casually in passing by Jim Gordon... no pressure or anything...):

• taking blood stains (for DNA)
• noting splatter patterns (the Batman will likely figure those out on his own automatically when you survey the scene, and if not, you'll have to bring him to someone who can... either way, no geometry homework for the player there) to determine weapons used and height of assailant
• soil and residue samples (which can give clues as to what area of the city or outskirts the perps may have walked through)
• hair samples (for color, length, and/or DNA), vapor analysis (at the very least tells you if someone was using gas in the commission of a crime)
• taking note of utility marks (left by tools used for breaking and entering, etc.) considering the evidence left on/in dead bodies, of course
• testing drugs

This is not a complete list, necessarily.


That evidence will lead you to:

• known residences, hang-outs and places of supposedly legitimate employment (where you'll meet them outside when they get off work... just for a friendly drink or a free ride home... or not) of known criminals;
• general lowlife hangouts when either there are no known locations to search, or there are and they just don't pan out at the moment;
• if known residences, hang-outs and employers don't pan out for the moment and you have other things to do (and you likely do), you might leave listening devices behind in their homes, the computer can alert you when sounds of a resident returning register-- you can also leave tracers on vehicles or packages found-- you can cut off the signals from all tracers and listening bugs if or when you're satisfied they won't be of any further use and will just clutter up the audio feed list and GPS map;
• areas that contain rare materials matching residue found at crime scenes,
• places that match phone numbers, matchbooks, written addresses or other such things left behind;
• classy criminal hangouts like the Iceberg Lounge (the Penguin's nightclub) to search for higher-class crooks and gain general info-- to keep things quiet here, it's best to use surveillance equipment and stay hidden from the guards, the the nasty little proprietor himself, and the birds (my God, the birds!);
• places likely to be used for whatever wide-scale crime schemes are in play, either by garden-variety gangsters or colorful rogues

This is not a complete list, necessarily

I would very much like input or comments on all that stuff, but I actually strayed far from my original questions:

• Should fiber analysis lead the Batman to attempt to trace all clothing to its manufacturer, or should the Batman automatically decide not to do so when it's a very common piece of material?
• Should the Batman prompt the player to check the Batcomputer for all criminal profiles that may mention a tendency to wear certain types of clothes, which will then produce a low-priority list with which you can cross-reference all other evidence found?
• Should the Batcomputer's profiles and dossiers be that detailed?

Tell me true!

Pretty please, with a knife to your throat and a cherry on top?

 

[Herr Logan]

Anybody?




Zaphod: For the love of God, post the other part of your Spider-Man movie concept!

Zev: What happens in your concept for a Captain America sequel? Will it begin in more or less the year the movie would be released, or the 60's, or anywhere in between?

Kame-sennin: Anything you want to add or comment on video game concepts or anything else will be faithfully copied word-for-word and scrawled onto the walls of my university's restroom stalls in the blood of the unworthy!

Somebody say something interesting, God dammit!

 

[Zev]

Well, now that you ask, I do have one or two ideas for a Cap sequel. So, Cap's been frozen. In a bit of a nod to the comics, Namor finds him (I think we can leave out the bit where Eskimos worship Captain America) and turns him off to SHIELD. He's de-frosted. The entire first act is character-driven, Steve catching up with the world. Bucky's dead, America's hated around the world, his old sweetheart (Bernice Rosenthal?) is a grandmother and ovah him, Nick Fury looks the same but is now a cold, cynical spymaster. To Cap, the world has gone to hell in a handbasket. He goes to see a Quentin Tarantino film and his ears burn.

Sharon Carter is assigned as liaison to him. She hates it, of course. Thinks it's a babysitting assignment. And it is. Cap isn't allowed in combat. He's too valuable a propoganda tool. Recruitment in the armed forces have tripled since he showed up. So now he does USC shows.

At a base in South Korea, Captain America enthralls the troops with tales of his exploits in WW2. Then Red Skull attacks. The psycho's kept himself alive by transferring his consciousness into a series of cloned bodies. Now he wants a sample of Captain America's DNA to make himself a superpowered clone body and (of course) make an army of ubermensch to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

Red Skull and his men kill the commanding offices in the first strike. Captain America rallies the men and fights back. Big setpiece. Skull's men attack on hoverjets. Cap, being Cap, commandeers one. So does Sharon. A chase through the jungle after Skull. Cap thought Skull was dead, now he's out for revenge. Skull shoots down Sharon's hoverjet. Cap is faced with a choice: Catch Skull or relieve his old partner's death. He chooses to save Sharon.

Second act. Captain America is told to stand down. He's going to be put into protective custody. It's clear that he's thought of as a relic. Sharon busts him out and they go after Skull alone.

And that's all I've got so far.

 

[Cullen]

Somebody say something interesting, God dammit!

Something interesting, God dammit.

If nothing else, I aims ta please.

 

[Zaphod]

Zaphod: For the love of God, post the other part of your Spider-Man movie concept!

Herr, dont listen to Ra's!

"Paitence is a weakness your enemies will not share..."

Anyway, it's pending. I wouldn't mind hearing some more of your X-Men movie treatment actually.

 

[Herr Logan]

Something interesting, God dammit.

If nothing else, I aims ta please.

If nothing else, I'll aim to maim.

 

[Herr Logan]

Herr, dont listen to Ra's!

"Paitence is a weakness your enemies will not share..."

Anyway, it's pending. I wouldn't mind hearing some more of your X-Men movie treatment actually.

You better know that you're paraphrasin', bub. It wasn't "patience," it was somethin' else.

Fair enough. I'll try to think some more about my X-Men movie idea. Let me know which model you want though, the one where the franchise starts with the second generation, or the original five.

 

[Cullen]

If nothing else, I'll aim to maim.

Hey, you asked. How could I refuse?

 

[Herr Logan]

Well, now that you ask, I do have one or two ideas for a Cap sequel. So, Cap's been frozen. In a bit of a nod to the comics, Namor finds him (I think we can leave out the bit where Eskimos worship Captain America) and turns him off to SHIELD. He's de-frosted. The entire first act is character-driven, Steve catching up with the world. Bucky's dead, America's hated around the world, his old sweetheart (Bernice Rosenthal?) is a grandmother and ovah him, Nick Fury looks the same but is now a cold, cynical spymaster. To Cap, the world has gone to hell in a handbasket. He goes to see a Quentin Tarantino film and his ears burn.

Sharon Carter is assigned as liaison to him. She hates it, of course. Thinks it's a babysitting assignment. And it is. Cap isn't allowed in combat. He's too valuable a propoganda tool. Recruitment in the armed forces have tripled since he showed up. So now he does USC shows.

At a base in South Korea, Captain America enthralls the troops with tales of his exploits in WW2. Then Red Skull attacks. The psycho's kept himself alive by transferring his consciousness into a series of cloned bodies. Now he wants a sample of Captain America's DNA to make himself a superpowered clone body and (of course) make an army of ubermensch to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!

Red Skull and his men kill the commanding offices in the first strike. Captain America rallies the men and fights back. Big setpiece. Skull's men attack on hoverjets. Cap, being Cap, commandeers one. So does Sharon. A chase through the jungle after Skull. Cap thought Skull was dead, now he's out for revenge. Skull shoots down Sharon's hoverjet. Cap is faced with a choice: Catch Skull or relieve his old partner's death. He chooses to save Sharon.

Second act. Captain America is told to stand down. He's going to be put into protective custody. It's clear that he's thought of as a relic. Sharon busts him out and they go after Skull alone.

And that's all I've got so far.

That sounds very interesting, Zev.

The Red Skull will still have a big, honkin' skull for a head, right?

Thanks for posting.

 

[Zev]

That sounds very interesting, Zev.

The Red Skull will still have a big, honkin' skull for a head, right?

Thanks for posting.

Well, of course. Maybe just an ironic "copy error" from the cloning process or maybe he just gives himself an acid facial to "keep up appearances."

Interesting note: In a cheapo Albert Pyun Captain America movie, the Red Skull was changed from a Nazi into a... of all things... eeee-vil businessman. The more things change...

 

[Herr Logan]

Hey, you asked. How could I refuse?

I knew that one, special person here would do something that tasteless. You've distinguished yourself yet again, Cullen.

 

[Herr Logan]

Well, of course. Maybe just an ironic "copy error" from the cloning process or maybe he just gives himself an acid facial to "keep up appearances."

Interesting note: In a cheapo Albert Pyun Captain America movie, the Red Skull was changed from a Nazi into a... of all things... eeee-vil businessman. The more things change...

Was this movie ever aired anywhere?

 

[Mister J]

Was this movie ever aired anywhere?

Unfortunately, yes. I remember it back on HBO in the early 90's. Be thankful you didn't subject yourself to it. It was hideous.

 

[Cullen]

I knew that one, special person here would do something that tasteless. You've distinguished yourself yet again, Cullen.

Gee, thanks! I think.

(I mean, it's not like I had anything interesting to say in truth...)

 

[Cullen]

Unfortunately, yes. I remember it back on HBO in the early 90's. Be thankful you didn't subject yourself to it. It was hideous.

Hideous doesn't do it justice. It went beyond hideous into the truly wretched. It made me weep and I am not a Captain America fan.

I think it was better than the 70's Captain America TV movies though. But that's only because I haven't seen those movies since the seventies...

 

[Herr Logan]

Unfortunately, yes. I remember it back on HBO in the early 90's. Be thankful you didn't subject yourself to it. It was hideous.

Well, thankfully, by the turn of the century they stopped reducing formidable, classic supervillains down to evil businessmen, right? Right?

God damn the Fox network. Damn them all to hell!

 

[Zaphod]

You better know that you're paraphrasin', bub. It wasn't "patience," it was somethin' else.

Fair enough. I'll try to think some more about my X-Men movie idea. Let me know which model you want though, the one where the franchise starts with the second generation, or the original five.

'Second Generation', please my good sir.

Paraphrasin'? What ever do you mean?

*cough*