World X-MEN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

Herr Logan · May 19, 2006

Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More
From
X-MEN

This thread is a spin-off of the original Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More from the Misc. Comics Films forum. That thread was open to the discussion of all superhero properties, and I have branched out into several property-specific ones so we can better keep track of peoples posts and have more linear and organized discussions about each superhero property.

Listed below are several posts links from the original Haven that pertain to the subject of this particular thread. It is not a complete list, and anyone who wants to link or re-post something they thought was interesting is welcome to do so.
I recommend reading these posts before posting your own ideas, but its not a requirement.
I ask that while people can respectfully point it out, they not act harshly when a user makes a new post that contains material that is similar to what has already been posted in either the original Haven or this particular thread.

This thread, like its predecessor, is dedicated to the brainstorming and discussion of ideas pertaining to how faithful and optimally entertaining superhero movie adaptations could have, or still could, be made. This is also a place for analyzing what has come before and how that could be a basis for ideal film adaptations of the various superhero properties we know and love, more closely based on the source material. The topic of this thread is the X-Men, including spin-off properties such as Wolverine.

I think certain movies already made could be taken as a basis for fully faithful adaptations, as in a large portion of a particular movie could be left mostly the way it is with specific alterations to what held that movie back from being better. Even some of the obvious changes to the various mythos could be used to enhance the story or execution of an adaptation that could still be considered faithful by discriminating, analytical and demanding fans. If there hasnt been a movie made of the superhero(es) discussed in this thread, then ignore the last two sentences.
I want to discuss the theoretical possibilities present in both the original source material and the existing adaptations, and how those could be put into new productions that completely nail both the "spirit" and the essential details of these mythologies. Plots, script, character traits, costumes, even casting decisions are open for discussion. This is ultimately for the purpose of creative discussions for their own sake, although I would be delighted if it inspired high-quality, faithful fan scripts beings written (Dragon has written some excellent Spider-Man screenplays, for example).

All other non-comics media are valid topics as well (live action and animated TV series, video games, etc.). Again, it's fine to use ideas from existing products (casting, plot elements, dialogue, props/effects, etc.) as a basis or part of an idea for a "new" product if the new product would be significantly more faithful, even though it would be implausible for a rebooted franchise (a la "Batman Begins") to include these same elements in reality; reality is mostly irrelevant here.
It is unlikely that these ideas will lead to a better movie being made; not unless one of the thread participants ends up being a big-time producer or someone important in the business reads this thread. This is for us, the fans. We spend a good deal of time on the Hype, and it really doesn't accomplish much in terms of tangible results anyway. That's okay, since the point of this forum, presumably, is for the purpose of imparting information, critiquing superhero products, and discussing ideas. This is for people who are intelligent, imaginative, and passionate and have ideas to share conforming to the stated topic.

Ground Rules:

If you believe that the movie adaptations already made are perfect or good enough and do not need revision or analysis, then you have nothing to contribute to this thread, so be on your way and dont intrude where you have nothing to offer. Do not waste our time with conformist platitudes. Do not come in here and defend film decisions that are considered flaws by contributing posters, unless you have another aspect in mind that does need changing and post an equal or greater portion of text discussing a criticism or suggesting an idea for an existing or hypothetical product that is very faithful to the source material.

Were here to talk amongst ourselves, and anyone who disagrees with the spirit of this thread is in no way obligated to read any of the content herein or reply. Any of the behavior I described above that occurs here is trolling, pure and simple. This thread isnt about argument and hostility. The only personal criticism that should occur is that which is directed toward the producers (meaning anyone involved in the production in any way) of preexisting superhero products, and even that should be kept reasonably limited, since everyone who truly belongs in this thread is assumed to have some level of disagreement with said producers, sometimes to the point of resentment. We need not spend excessive time on blaming them for their failings, but dont hold back your true feelings on those screw-ups either. Disagreement between rule-abiding posters is fine. Just keep it civil and within the guidelines. Or else.
Nobody is allowed to use terms like fanboy, nerd, purist, hater, or anything like that in a derogatory manner toward other posters or comic fans in general in this thread. The word "whining" and the like-- unless used with regard to a character in a movie, comic book or TV show (ex. Spider-Man was quite the whiner...)is forbidden, as is nitpicking, and anything else intended to bully anyone into complacency and acceptance of existing products. The phrase impossible standards and anything to the effect of movies and comics are different mediums, so there have to be changes, the general audience will not accept the same things comics fans will, and people want to see realism, if not accompanied by a massive amount of faithful and potentially marketable ideas meant to compensate or work around these alleged facts, are also strictly forbidden.

It is okay to suggest minor deviations from the source material for this topic, as long as the majority of the ideas you put forthor are simply replying to and agree withare consistent with the source material and/or significantly more faithful than previous existing adaptations.

Please do not include concepts based on Marvel's Ultimate Universe that differ greatly from the real Marvel Universe (616). I realize this is largely subjective, so I'll have to shoulder the terrible burden of deciding what is "faithful enough;" I'll try not to be capricious about it.*

*That last rule was added on 6/03/06, so contributors who began sharing concepts that are overall strongly based on the Ultimate Universe prior to that may continue to further develop them (example: The Question proposed a movie for 'The Ultimates' on 6/02/06, so that, as a movie or a multi-film franchise, gets a free pass forevermore). Other posters should not start posting that type of material, or rather they should be aware that I will address it and judge the content acceptable or unacceptable. Thanks for bearing with me.

Do not belittle classic superhero or villain costumes. Do not use the word "panties" to describe those shorts that some heroes wear over their tights. It's fine to describe a costume as "tights" as long as they actually are and you aren't belittling anything. It's not okay to use the word "Spandex" to describe a costume from the comics that is not actually made of it, unless you're suggesting that Spandex, Lycra, etc. be used in the production of the movie, or maybe suggesting Neoprene or something else over it. Using the term "gay" in any derogatory sense whatsoever in this thread will result in an immediate report to a moderator, without warning, whether or not you've read this.

Again, its okay to disagree with a persons criticism of a movie if you have another one to share, but do not post remarks about an existing or real-life upcoming film if you have no significant complaints about any of the productions being discussed.

I hope the guidelines are clear. Everyone is welcome to contribute or comment, as long as they follow the rules and dont make any criticisms that are not relevant to the thread. You either belong here or you dont, and that choice is up to you , so have respect enough to let the environment herein reflect the title of this thread.
Anyone who violates the rules or causes trouble will be promptly reported.

Thank you for your cooperation.

It is recommended, but not strictly required, that you supply a unique title at the beginning of each new post, especially when it isnt a reply to anothers post. This will help in identifying the topic of each new post at a glance and finding specific posts with the Hypes search engine. You can resend older posts in the appropriate thread and add titles to them.
Examples:

Hunter Riders Iron Man concept #1
Herr Logans Batman: Dark Knight Detective video game,
Everymans Captain America movie series concept #1
Zevs Daredevil TV Show concept
Logan & Zaphods Batman movie series concept.

Abaddon · May 20, 2006

Thanks for linking my X-idea,Herr.I actually came up with some revisions but was having trouble finding my old posts.I'll post my "official" version as soon as I can. :up:

Herr Logan · May 20, 2006

Abaddon said:
Thanks for linking my X-idea,Herr.I actually came up with some revisions but was having trouble finding my old posts.I'll post my "official" version as soon as I can.

No problem. I look forward to it. :up:

The Batman · May 20, 2006

Alllllllllllllll right!

The Batman · May 20, 2006

As for costumes, i think the reload costumes are perfect to put on screen. They're basically the 70's-80's costumes updated for today. Cyke's new look totally solves your problem, herr logan, as he only has a gold outline on his suit.

I'll get started on the sequel to my first X-Men

Herr Logan · May 20, 2006

The Batman said:
As for costumes, i think the reload costumes are perfect to put on screen. They're basically the 70's-80's costumes updated for today. Cyke's new look totally solves your problem, herr logan, as he only has a gold outline on his suit.

I'll get started on the sequel to my first X-Men

You mean just for the original team or beyond that?

Wolverine's "reload" costume in particular is crap. I would show an alternate (as in more militaristic) version of Wolverine's original Department H costume from the 70's (and then replace it with the brown and orange one in the next scene he's in), but not that ridiculous thing he's wearing in comics now. I know tha costume was created for the sole purpose of fostering more anti-costume mentality with regard to Wolverine. A couple years of it now, and then the fans will be expected to vote "no" for any Wolverine costumes ever again. Bastards.

I would still want to put trunks on Cyclops even if he wore that all-blue bodysuit, since I'm very much in love with my own trunks/rapelling harness idea. I'd give it to anyone who might need to climb with ropes, which includes all the original X-Men (even the Beast and Angel, just in case they get really tired and can't fly or grip), Wolverine, Colossus, Kitty Pryde (in case she can't phase for whatever reason), and others.

I'm thinking I'd give Cyclops the open-top cowl with bandaliers look in my ideal third X-Men movie, where I'd also introduce Gambit (who would also have a harness) and bring back a few of the original team members.

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 20, 2006

X-Men-(Part one)

The basic team is comprised of: Cyclops,Storm,Colossus,Nightcrawler,Wolverine,and eventually Kitty Pryde.Jean Grey has a small supporting role.

Costumes:

Well,not really.I just wanted to open with that pic.

Storm-

Colossus-

Cyclops-(A blend of these two drawing mostly on the Ultimate version)

Nightcrawler-(Sans the priest collar with some red slapped on)

Abaddon · May 20, 2006

Wolverine-(A blend of these)

Magneto-(I'd tone down the purple a bit,and emphasize the red)

Toad-(Without the stupid though,and perhaps something resembling that lilipad collar thing he used to wear)

Pyro-

Avalanche and Blob-

Abaddon · May 20, 2006

Mystique-

Kitty-(Who doesn't receive of costume,but rather steals a training one where's something similar to this)

I'll get to the story a bit later.

The Batman · May 20, 2006

Herr Logan said:
You mean just for the original team or beyond that?

Wolverine's "reload" costume in particular is crap. I would show an alternate (as in more militaristic) version of Wolverine's original Department H costume from the 70's (and then replace it with the brown and orange one in the next scene he's in), but not that ridiculous thing he's wearing in comics now. I know tha costume was created for the sole purpose of fostering more anti-costume mentality with regard to Wolverine. A couple years of it now, and then the fans will be expected to vote "no" for any Wolverine costumes ever again. Bastards.

I would still want to put trunks on Cyclops even if he wore that all-blue bodysuit, since I'm very much in love with my own trunks/rapelling harness idea. I'd give it to anyone who might need to climb with ropes, which includes all the original X-Men (even the Beast and Angel, just in case they get really tired and can't fly or grip), Wolverine, Colossus, Kitty Pryde (in case she can't phase for whatever reason), and others.

I'm thinking I'd give Cyclops the open-top cowl with bandaliers look in my ideal third X-Men movie, where I'd also introduce Gambit (who would also have a harness) and bring back a few of the original team members.

Most of the characters reload costumes are pretty good. I'd most likely use those.

There are two ways the reload costume for logan is drawn. Do you mean the one with the classic wolvie boots and gloves, or the one with millitary boots and gloves?

Herr Logan · May 20, 2006

The Batman said:
Most of the characters reload costumes are pretty good. I'd most likely use those.

There are two ways the reload costume for logan is drawn. Do you mean the one with the classic wolvie boots and gloves, or the one with millitary boots and gloves?

I'm not even sure. I just know that the bodysuit pattern is horrible. I prefer something much simpler like his original costume (from 'Uncanny X-Men,' not 'Incredible Hulk' #181, unless something tasteful could be done about those "whiskers") or the brown and orange one. The latter costume I think would look the best on screen, but again, I'd definitely show a yellowish, black-striped uniform in Wolverine's first scene in my second X-Men film; this would be where Professor Xavier recruits him right then and there at the Department H headquarters in front of Wolverine's supervisor.

I've also decided that Logan will accept his offer largely based on the fact that Xavier had the balls to do it like that. The next time you see him, he's acclimated to working with the X-Men (but still rough around the edges, of course) and wearing a uniform that honors the Yashida clan with its colors, with a mask that resembles both a samurai headpiece and an indiginous Canadian tribe's totem mask. Anyone who thinks Wolverine would look silly in that on screen obviously doesn't believe that good filmmakers actually exist. Besides, the very concept of the X-Men is silly. Everyone with half a brain knows Xavier's naive and deluded and costumed vigilantes aren't likely to make political progress in the "real world." But we still root for them and we read and watch superhero stories. It's just the ones who can't accept basic traits of their chosen genre that are ashamed of it.

Okay, off-topic. Anyway, it's the completely over-done yellow and blue pattern I have a problem with, not the boots or gloves, necessarily. I also think he should have the trunks. They help emphasize his stockiness and short stature if he's drawn correctly.

:wolverine

Herr Logan · May 20, 2006

Abaddon said:
X-Men-(Part one)

Thanks for posting, Abaddon. :up:

These designs differ a lot from my own preferences, but there's nothing to say about that, really. I'll have more to say when you post the story.

Just tell me this: How tall is Wolverine going to be in your version? Also, is this a movie or TV series, live action or animated?

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 20, 2006

Herr Logan said:
Thanks for posting, Abaddon.

These designs differ a lot from my own preferences, but there's nothing to say about that, really. I'll have more to say when you post the story.

Just tell me this: How tall is Wolverine going to be in your version? Also, is this a movie or TV series, live action or animated?

I actually meant it for a movie.But a live action with a movie-budget would be a dream come true.

And I'm mostly familiar with your costume preference anyway.

I'd say Wolverine would be about 5'4. And I forget to mention I'd change Avalanche's helmet to resemble his comic counterpart.

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Abaddon said:
I actually meant it for a movie.But a live action with a movie-budget would be a dream come true.

And I'm mostly familiar with your costume preference anyway.

I'd say Wolverine would be about 5'4. And I forget to mention I'd change Avalanche's helmet to resemble his comic counterpart.

Wolverine is 5'3", not 5'4".

Someday I'll forgive you for that, but for now, I can't even look at you.

Anyway, comics Avalache definitely looks better.

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 21, 2006

Herr Logan said:
Wolverine is 5'3", not 5'4".

Someday I'll forgive you for that, but for now, I can't even look at you.

He wears boots sometimes.

Anyways

The Story

It opens with a Prof. Xavier voiceover,like the one used in Singer's version.We see brief glimpses of the teams origins-Colossus in Russia,Storm in Africa,etc.Then we see a young Kitty Pryde enter her home after coming from dance class.She tells her parents she left early because she was getting another one of her headaches.Her mother suggest they see a doctor,but her father thinks its merely stress do to taking on so many activites.He tells her that she should take it slow,everytime she's ever wanted to do something,she succeeds and then moves on to something else(he mentions her currently taking on ballet and gymnatics,and having gained a black belt in karate school).Kitty goes upstairs to lie down,and closes her eyes trying to stop the pain.Her mother talks with her father about the problem while making dinner,and asks her husband to ask her if she wants some tea.Her father stands on the landing and calls up to her.Kitty,still experiencing pain,tries to shut him out. She takes a deep breath,and before she even realizes it,begins sinking into the bed.Her father walks up the stairs and over to her room only to find it empty.Her mother turns away from the stove and walks out towards the staircase,and a horrified look comes over her face as she sees Kitty phase down the ceiling along with her bed sheets,and calmly float down.She lets out a piecring scream and Mr.Pryde comes running down the stairs.The scream is enough to snap Kitty out of it,and she opens her eyes and falls on the floor.Her mother is hysterical and her father desperately tries to make sense of whats going on. She points to ceiling where a pillow is hanging from it,having not been completely phased.KItty is freaked out by her parents reaction,and her own experience.The last thing she remembers was being in her room and closing her eyes.She gets up and looks up at the ceiling,then gasps and backs into the television....literally.The screen goes to static and she pulls out of it.The scene ends with everyone bearing panicked facial expressions.

more later.

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Abaddon said:
He wears boots sometimes.

Anyways

The Story

It opens with a Prof. Xavier voiceover,like the one used in Singer's version.We see brief glimpses of the teams origins-Colossus in Russia,Storm in Africa,etc.Then we see a young Kitty Pryde enter her home after coming from dance class.She tells her parents she left early because she was getting another one of her headaches.Her mother suggest they see a doctor,but her father thinks its merely stress do to taking on so many activites.He tells her that she should take it slow,everytime she's ever wanted to do something,she succeeds and then moves on to something else(he mentions her currently taking on ballet and gymnatics,and having gained a black belt in karate school).Kitty goes upstairs to lie down,and closes her eyes trying to stop the pain.Her mother talks with her father about the problem while making dinner,and asks her husband to ask her if she wants some tea.Her father stands on the landing and calls up to her.Kitty,still experiencing pain,tries to shut him out. She takes a deep breath,and before she even realizes it,begins sinking into the bed.Her father walks up the stairs and over to her room only to find it empty.Her mother turns away from the stove and walks out towards the staircase,and a horrified look comes over her face as she sees Kitty phase down the ceiling along with her bed sheets,and calmly float down.She lets out a piecring scream and Mr.Pryde comes running down the stairs.The scream is enough to snap Kitty out of it,and she opens her eyes and falls on the floor.Her mother is hysterical and her father desperately tries to make sense of whats going on. She points to ceiling where a pillow is hanging from it,having not been completely phased.KItty is freaked out by her parents reaction,and her own experience.The last thing she remembers was being in her room and closing her eyes.She gets up and looks up at the ceiling,then gasps and backs into the television....literally.The screen goes to static and she pulls out of it.The scene ends with everyone bearing panicked facial expressions.

more later.

Sounds like a good start. :up:

Abaddon · May 21, 2006

I edited in a mention of Kitty's father watching a news program about the mutant problem,to put a greater emphasis on the fact that while the adult figures deal with serious,world problems and issues regarding persecution,and the like Kitty is mostly oblivious because she's a teen girl and she lives in her world,and its the discovery of her own "otherness" that brings about this awareness.I also want to mention that I've aged KItty by a few years,so her abilities manifest now that she is 16.

The Story

It opens with a Prof. Xavier voiceover,like the one used in Singer's version.We see brief glimpses of the teams origins-Colossus in Russia,Storm in Africa,etc.And Magneto's as well.Then we see a young Kitty Pryde enter her home after coming from dance class.She tells her parents she left early because she was getting another one of her headaches.Her mother suggest they see a doctor,but her father,turning away from a news program regarding the mutant issue, thinks its merely stress do to taking on so many activites.He tells her that she should take it slow,everytime she's ever wanted to do something,she succeeds and then moves on to something else(he mentions her currently taking on ballet and gymnatics,and having gained a black belt in karate school).Kitty goes upstairs to lie down,and closes her eyes trying to stop the pain.Her mother talks with her father about the problem while making dinner,and asks her husband to ask her if she wants some tea.Her father stands on the landing and calls up to her.Kitty,still experiencing pain,tries to shut him out. She takes a deep breath,and before she even realizes it,begins sinking into the bed.Her father walks up the stairs and over to her room only to find it empty.Her mother turns away from the stove and walks out towards the staircase,and a horrified look comes over her face as she sees Kitty phase down the ceiling along with her bed sheets,and calmly float down.She lets out a piecring scream and Mr.Pryde comes running down the stairs.The scream is enough to snap Kitty out of it,and she opens her eyes and falls on the floor.Her mother is hysterical and her father desperately tries to make sense of whats going on. She points to ceiling where a pillow is hanging from it,having not been completely phased.Kitty is freaked out by her parents reaction,and her own experience.The last thing she remembers was being in her room and closing her eyes.She gets up and looks up at the ceiling,then gasps and backs into the television....literally.The screen goes to static and she pulls out of it.The scene ends with everyone bearing panicked facial expressions.

the story continues with Xavier watching a Senate hearing held by to discuss the mutant threat.Senator Kelly is present along with Henry Gyrich,and Valerie Cooper,who have brief cameos.Kelly delivers an impassioned speech advocating the Mutant Registration Act.He cites incidents of violence involving mutants,including an allusion to an incident at Cape Citadel years prior.Hank McCoy is introduced as an expert on genetics,and explains the possible causes of mutation and makes some suggestions and how it should be dealt with.Kelly immediately rebuts with snarky comments about McCoys large hands and feet,and his foolishly idealistic beliefs.At the meetings end Hank speaks with Xavier wondering if bigots like Kelly in power will ever allow for progress.Xavier says that in the meantime it is importnat that he opens the doors to those youths who are disenfranchised so that they're hearts don't harden when confronting the coldness of those like Kelly.Seconds later Xavier stops sensing a prescence.He tells Hank to go wait with Bobby and the others,and travels down a corridor where he see's Magneto.They have a talk,pretty much the same as the one in the Singers X-Men.Xavier still has hope for mankind blah,blah,blah.Magneto intends to bring hope to mutantkind blah,blah,blah.

We go back to Kitty's house where the girl lies in her room still upset by the discovery and hasn't gone to school in weeks.She's afraid that she'll use her powers while in class and everyone will find out that she's a freak.Her mother(still somewhat in denial) talks to her about some alternatives. She mentions some other private schools who've shown interest based on her academic ability.She shows her a letter from the Massachusetts Academy about wanting to meet with her soon.Kitty dismissing her moms attempts to make her feel better,saying she doesn't want to accept the fact that she can't lead a normal life anymore.The doorbell rings and Mr.Pryde answers to find a bald man in a wheelchair alongside a tall man in his 20's,wearing ruby-red shades.Confused,he asks if they need some help,and Xavier tells him he's there for an appointment to discuss Kitty's eligibility for his school.Mr.Pryde shakes his head and in the middle of disputing the claim "regains" his memory after Xavier gives a slight gesture,and remembers speaking to him over the phone.He apologizes and lets them in,calling his wife over.

more later

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Abaddon said:
I edited in a mention of Kitty's father watching a news program about the mutant problem,to put a greater emphasis on the fact that while the adult figures deal with serious,world problems and issues regarding persecution,and the like Kitty is mostly oblivious because she's a teen girl and she lives in her world,and its the discovery of her own "otherness" that brings about this awareness.I also want to mention that I've aged KItty by a few years,so her abilities manifest now that she is 16.

the story continues with Xavier watching a Senate hearing held by to discuss the mutant threat.Senator Kelly is present along with Henry Gyrich,and Valerie Cooper,who have brief cameos.Kelly delivers an impassioned speech advocating the Mutant Registration Act.He cites incidents of violence involving mutants,including an allusion to an incident at Cape Citadel years prior.Hank McCoy is introduced as an expert on genetics,and explains the possible causes of mutation and makes some suggestions and how it should be dealt with.Kelly immediately rebuts with snarky comments about McCoys large hands and feet,and his foolishly idealistic beliefs.At the meetings end Hank speaks with Xavier wondering if bigots like Kelly in power will ever allow for progress.Xavier says that in the meantime it is importnat that he opens the doors to those youths who are disenfranchised so that they're hearts don't harden when confronting the coldness of those like Kelly.Seconds later Xavier stops sensing a prescence.He tells Hank to go wait with Bobby and the others,and travels down a corridor where he see's Magneto.They have a talk,pretty much the same as the one in the Singers X-Men.Xavier still has hope for mankind blah,blah,blah.Magneto intends to bring hope to mutantkind blah,blah,blah.

We go back to Kitty's house where the girl lies in her room still upset by the discovery and hasn't gone to school in weeks.She's afraid that she'll use her powers while in class and everyone will find out that she's a freak.Her mother(still somewhat in denial) talks to her about some alternatives. She mentions some other private schools who've shown interest based on her academic ability.She shows her a letter from the Massachusetts Academy about wanting to meet with her soon.Kitty dismissing her moms attempts to make her feel better,saying she doesn't want to accept the fact that she can't lead a normal life anymore.The doorbell rings and Mr.Pryde answers to find a bald man in a wheelchair alongside a tall man in his 20's,wearing ruby-red shades.Confused,he asks if they need some help,and Xavier tells him he's there for an appointment to discuss Kitty's eligibility for his school.Mr.Pryde shakes his head and in the middle of disputing the claim "regains" his memory after Xavier gives a slight gesture,and remembers speaking to him over the phone.He apologizes and lets them in,calling his wife over.

more later

This all sounds great except for one thing:
Robert Kelly isn't really a bigot. In the comics, he drew attention to the fact that mutants truly are a security risk (and come on, they totally are) and as a libertarian had qualms about the civil rights violations that would come with the Mutant Registration Act, but he had to put his preferences aside for the greater good. Bigots-- people who not only fear mutants but behave cruelly and irrationally towards them-- use him as a figurehead, basically. Kelly may have become more bigoted after his wife was killed during a mutant-on-mutant fight (the X-Men may have been involved). If you revealed at some point in the movie that Kelly lost a loved one because of one of the X-Men's battles, that would allow for a more bigoted Kelly, but he still should behave at least civilly toward mutant advocates while in public. I mean, making fun of Beast's feet and hands? That's more Graydon Creed's (the bastard child of two sociopathic murderers) style, while Kelly is supposed to be a semi-sympathetic character. He's sort of like the middle ground between zealots like Bolivar Trask and civil rights advocates like J. Jonah Jameson (who just dislikes the X-Men because they're vigilantes, but has no problem with mutants in general and would never support the MRA if there was a vote).
Just my thoughts on that.

The Beast should absolutely be the one to debate with Kelly, not Jean Grey, so good on you for recognizing that.
Having Henry Gyrich and Valerie Cooper is cool.
Referencing Magneto's initial high-profile terrorist attack on Cape Citadel is good, too. :up:

I like what you did with Professor X planting a fake memory in Carmen Pryde's (I really can't believe someone would name their son "Carmen," but that's his name) mind. He used to pull that kind of $hit all the time, so despite his more recent high-horse policy on brain tampering, there's plenty of precedent.
You should probably fit in a reference to the fact that Kitty's parents were Robert Kelly supporters (which was true in the comics when they didn't know she was a mutant). Even just a T-shirt or something would do.

Good stuff. Now give me more!

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 21, 2006

Herr Logan said:
This all sounds great except for one thing:
Robert Kelly isn't really a bigot. In the comics, he drew attention to the fact that mutants truly are a security risk (and come on, they totally are) and as a libertarian had qualms about the civil rights violations that would come with the Mutant Registration Act, but he had to put his preferences aside for the greater good. Bigots-- people who not only fear mutants but behave cruelly and irrationally towards them-- use him as a figurehead, basically. Kelly may have become more bigoted after his wife was killed during a mutant-on-mutant fight (the X-Men may have been involved). If you revealed at some point in the movie that Kelly lost a loved one because of one of the X-Men's battles, that would allow for a more bigoted Kelly, but he still should behave at least civilly toward mutant advocates while in public. I mean, making fun of Beast's feet and hands? That's more Graydon Creed's (the bastard child of two sociopathic murderers) style, while Kelly is supposed to be a semi-sympathetic character. He's sort of like the middle ground between zealots like Bolivar Trask and civil rights advocates like J. Jonah Jameson (who just dislikes the X-Men because they're vigilantes, but has no problem with mutants in general and would never support the MRA if there was a vote).
Just my thoughts on that.

The Beast should absolutely be the one to debate with Kelly, not Jean Grey, so good on you for recognizing that.
Having Henry Gyrich and Valerie Cooper is cool.
Referencing Magneto's initial high-profile terrorist attack on Cape Citadel is good, too.

I like what you did with Professor X planting a fake memory in Carmen Pryde's (I really can't believe someone would name their son "Carmen," but that's his name) mind. He used to pull that kind of $hit all the time, so despite his more recent high-horse policy on brain tampering, there's plenty of precedent.
You should probably fit in a reference to the fact that Kitty's parents were Robert Kelly supporters (which was true in the comics when they didn't know she was a mutant). Even just a T-shirt or something would do.

Good stuff. Now give me more!

Ok,I see your point.I'm really more familiar with his X-Men:TAS,and movie,counterparts than the actual source.He could definitely use some justification for his feelings towards mutants,but I don't want to humanize him too much because it might squelch the McCarthy-esqueness of his character.Perhaps his comment on appearance could be changed to: "Not all these mutants are merely born with physical ...abnormalities(a more subtle indication).Some of them can start fires on whim,create bombs in the palm of their hands,and read our deepest and most private thoughts.We're talking about petential criminals in our midst." or something along those lines.

Also,as far as Kitty's parents being Kelly-supporters,I'd have the news program Carmen(far from what I expected

) was viewing talk about the upcoming Senate hearing and present an interview with Kelly.Then he and Teresa would have a brief exchange where they acknowledge their support.

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Abaddon said:
Ok,I see your point.I'm really more familiar with his X-Men:TAS,and movie,counterparts than the actual source.He could definitely use some justification for his feelings towards mutants,but I don't want to humanize him too much because it might squelch the McCarthy-esqueness of his character.Perhaps his comment on appearance could be changed to: "Not all these mutants are merely born with physical ...abnormalities(a more subtle indication).Some of them can start fires on whim,create bombs in the palm of their hands,and read our deepest and most private thoughts.We're talking about petential criminals in our midst." or something along those lines.

Also,as far as Kitty's parents being Kelly-supporters,I'd have the news program Carmen(far from what I expected) was viewing talk about the upcoming Senate hearing and present an interview with Kelly.Then he and Teresa would have a brief exchange where they acknowledge their support.

Yep, that sounds great. :up:

I definitely agree that there is a need to retain a McCarthy-esque tone with regard to the government and citizenry.

:wolverine

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Okay, I already went over who'd be in my first ideal X-Men movie in both the X-Men and the Brotherhood-- Prof. X, Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Marvel Girl, Iceman; Magneto, Toad, Mastermind, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Unus. Now for some plot notes.

I'm not exactly sure how the movie itself would start out, but I can run through the scenes which first show us the enlisted X-Men as a group. It would be just like in the very first issue where Jean Grey arrives in a taxi and the four boys are at a window watching her. They'll make remarks about how hot she is and joke around a bit, with Scott speaking the least. Warren, Bobby and Hank flirt with her for a good deal of their scenes together when not in battle (and sometimes during, especially in Warren's case). The students compete with each other, pretty fiercely in some instances but always within reason and without malice. They trust each other, regardless of the arguments that come up between them.

In the lair of the Brotherhood of Mutants, a similar thing is happening with the Scarlet Witch, as she is the only female among them and both Mastermind and the Toad have the hots for her. The difference is, they're not being at all charming about it, and it's not nearly as innocuous. Mastermind is far too forward and creepy and Quicksilver-- the overprotective (or is he just protective enough, under the circumstances) twin brother, throws him up against a wall in response. They fight a bit more, with Mastermind attacking Quicky with psionic illusions of fire or something, and then Magneto returns, enraged to see his minions behaving like children. Magneto warns Mastermind to back the hell off and leave Wanda in peace, and he chides Pietro for attacking a fellow mutant when it's only Magneto's place to discipline his followers. Quicksilver makes it more than clear that he isn't afraid of Magneto and doesn't give a rat's ass about his terrorist ambitions or his enormous ego. He's only there because Wanda feels indebted to Magneto for his saving her life, and Pietro will not stray from her while she's among these dangerous men. Magneto doesn't press the issue much further with Pietro, but makes some kind of show of force to show the others he's still in control. Toad acts obsequious toward Magneto as usual and gets b1tched out for being irritating. The members of the Brotherhood obviously do not get along. No jokes, no friendly jibes, no competitive games. The competition is real, the rivarly is real, and they'd just as soon stab each other in the back as give the time of day (except for the twins, who don't have the same coldblooded nature as the others). The audience will get a pretty good sense of which side they'd rather be on, if only for the emotional stability, if not the opulent setting.

Professor Xavier is very firm with his students when he has to be, but not cruel. Magneto is pretty heartless when it comes to Mastermind (because he's a scumbag who's only after money and power, no other lofty goals) and Toad (because despite his phenomenal physical properties, he's a weak person, and very annoying). He's pretty indifferent to Unus, but he knows the guy is also just a mercenary, just not as outright evil as Mastermind. To the Scarlet Witch, he is paternal (it comes naturally to him, for some strange reason... and no, I wasn't planning on having Magneto find out about the true nature of his relationship with the twins, but it could be implied heavily enough for the comic-reading audience to know I haven't neglected it entirely). One of the themes of the movie is "yay, teamwork!" The Brotherhood lose not because they have insufficient power, but because they can't trust each other and can't fight like a team. The fact that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch punk out during the final fight and the Beast uses a homemade super-gadget to turn Unus' power against him doesn't help.

There would be romantic tension between Jean and Warren, and also Jean and Scott. We already know who wins her heart by the end of the movie, so yeah.

There would be a point in the movie where the students go to Harry's Hideaway, a bar in Salem Center, and come close to getting in a fight with local toughs. Somehow or other, Scott Summer would be challenged to a game of pool and he'd win by a mile, since he's got that keen head for geometry. The opponent will find some excuse to try and start a fight, Scott won't back down, and Hank McCoy, former football star and large, bulky student, will convince everyone to calm the hell down. This is where we see that Cyclops has a macho streak in him, too, and he's fallible.

More later.

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 21, 2006

Herr Logan said:
Okay, I already went over who'd be in my first ideal X-Men movie-- Prof. X, Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Marvel Girl, Iceman; Magneto, Toad, Mastermind, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Unus. Now for some plot notes.

I'm not exactly sure how the movie itself would start out, but I can run through the scenes which first show us the enlisted X-Men as a group. It would be just like in the very first issue where Jean Grey arrives in a taxi and the four boys are at a window watching her. They'll make remarks about how hot she is and joke around a bit, with Scott speaking the least. Warren, Bobby and Hank flirt with her for a good deal of their scenes together when not in battle (and sometimes during, especially in Warren's case). The students compete with each other, pretty fiercely in some instances but always within reason and without malice. They trust each other, regardless of the arguments that come up between them.

In the lair of the Brotherhood of Mutants, a similar thing is happening with the Scarlet Witch, as she is the only female among them and both Mastermind and the Toad have the hots for her. The difference is, they're not being at all charming about it, and it's not nearly as innocuous. Mastermind is far too forward and creepy and Quicksilver-- the overprotective (or is he just protective enough, under the circumstances) twin brother, throws him up against a wall in response. They fight a bit more, with Mastermind attacking Quicky with psionic illusions of fire or something, and then Magneto returns, enraged to see his minions behaving like children. Magneto warns Mastermind to back the hell off and leave Wanda in peace, and he chides Pietro for attacking a fellow mutant when it's only Magneto's place to discipline his followers. Quicksilver makes it more than clear that he isn't afraid of Magneto and doesn't give a rat's ass about his terrorist ambitions or his enormous ego. He's only there because Wanda feels indebted to Magneto for his saving her life, and Pietro will not stray from her while she's among these dangerous men. Magneto doesn't press the issue much further with Pietro, but makes some kind of show of force to show the others he's still in control. Toad acts obsequious toward Magneto as usual and gets b1tched out for being irritating. The members of the Brotherhood obviously do not get along. No jokes, no friendly jibes, no competitive games. The competition is real, the rivarly is real, and they'd just as soon stab each other in the back as give the time of day (except for the twins, who don't have the same coldblooded nature as the others). The audience will get a pretty good sense of which side they'd rather be on, if only for the emotional stability, if not the opulent setting.

Professor Xavier is very firm with his students when he has to be, but not cruel. Magneto is pretty heartless when it comes to Mastermind (because he's a scumbag who's only after money and power, no other lofty goals) and Toad (because despite his phenomenal physical properties, he's a weak person, and very annoying). He's pretty indifferent to Unus, but he knows the guy is also just a mercenary, just not as outright evil as Mastermind. To the Scarlet Witch, he is paternal (it comes naturally to him, for some strange reason... and no, I wasn't planning on having Magneto find out about the true nature of his relationship with the twins, but it could be implied heavily enough for the comic-reading audience to know I haven't neglected it entirely). One of the themes of the movie is "yay, teamwork!" The Brotherhood lose not because they have insufficient power, but because they can't trust each other and can't fight like a team. The fact that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch punk out during the final fight and the Beast uses a homemade super-gadget to turn Unus' power against him doesn't help.

There would be romantic tension between Jean and Warren, and also Jean and Scott. We already know who wins her heart by the end of the movie, so yeah.

There would be a point in the movie where the students go to Harry's Hideaway, a bar in Salem Center, and come close to getting in a fight with local toughs. Somehow or other, Scott Summer would be challenged to a game of pool and he'd win by a mile, since he's got that keen head for geometry. The opponent will find some excuse to try and start a fight, Scott won't back down, and Hank McCoy, former football star and large, bulky student, will convince everyone to calm the hell down. This is where we see that Cyclops has a macho streak in him, too, and he's fallible.

More later.

A few questions:

Are the X-Men all teenagers?

What is the basic story in the film?

And how would you explain the Scarlet Witch's abilities?

Herr Logan · May 21, 2006

Abaddon said:
A few questions:

Are the X-Men all teenagers?

What is the basic story in the film?

And how would you explain the Scarlet Witch's abilities?

Scott, Jean, Warren and Hank are 18, and Bobby is about 17. This is approximately how old they were when all five members officially joined the team in the comics. They don't need to be older than this for the purposes of the story. They're not stupid kids, they're young adults.

The basic story is that it's the first time Magneto makes an overt attack in the name of "mutant liberation" and the first time the X-Men meet Magneto and the Brotherhood (not Xavier, as he knew Magneto back in the day). It will establish what Xavier is all about (ideally including a short flashback scene with the Shadow King in Cairo), what the X-Men are all about, and why there's a need for them (the socio-political climate regarding mutants). There's no real plot twist here; just the X-Men versus Magneto and the Brotherhood, with a lot of character development and some philosophic discussion in between fight scenes.

The Scarlet Witch's powers won't be explained in much detail. There would be some mention of altering probabilities among the Brotherhood, but generally they'd be referred to as "hexes" by the X-Men. Her powers are somewhat unpredictable and very potent, but once the X-Men figure out that she needs her hands free and her eyes unobscured to fire her hex-bolts, she'll be neutralized until she earnestly denounces her alliance with Magneto.

:wolverine

Abaddon · May 22, 2006

k,cool.

Also,I decided to change Magneto's look to this:

Herr Logan · May 22, 2006

Abaddon said:
k,cool.

Also,I decided to change Magneto's look to this:

I don't like the purple helmet!

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