World X-MEN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Herr Logan]

Oh, you should. It's great television. There's actual suspense because characters die. Characters you care about and love and they die and yet instead of getting angry you actually feel sad about the characters dying.

And I know you don't like character comparisions, but Michael Scofield?

Is Batman.

Only cooler.

No one is cooler than the Batman, dammit.

Possibly Wolverine... depending on who's writing and when, but that's it.

 

[Herr Logan]

Apparently they deleted that guy's plug for that book and article associated with it. Good. The article inaccurately described the events in the trade paperback. It said that the events of Jean becoming Dark Phoenix and killing herself and then Xavier dying and having his mind put in a cloned body led to his passing leadership to Storm. Newsflash: He quit after the first big set of events, not the second. Yeah, Xavier almost dying put him in a bad mood, but he was going to go back on hiatus anyway. Also, 'Days of Future Past' didn't make anyone question whether they wanted to be an X-Man any more significantly than any other major conflict. Nobody on the team even witnessed that future firsthand.

Anyway, I hate it when people come through here leaving generic plug posts they leave in other threads. Either you belong in here or you don't.

 

[Herr Logan]

Apparently they deleted that guy's plug for that book and article associated with it. Good. The article inaccurately described the events in the trade paperback. It said that the events of Jean becoming Dark Phoenix and killing herself and then Xavier dying and having his mind put in a cloned body led to his passing leadership to Storm. Newsflash: He quit after the first big set of events, not the second. Yeah, Xavier almost dying put him in a bad mood, but he was going to go back on hiatus anyway. Also, 'Days of Future Past' didn't make anyone question whether they wanted to be an X-Man any more significantly than any other major conflict. Nobody on the team even witnessed that future firsthand.

Anyway, I hate it when people come through here leaving generic plug posts they leave in other threads. Either you belong in here or you don't. He could at least try to tie it to the topic of the thread...

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I'm not the most hardcore X-Men fan there is. And I was thinking about how craptacular the X-Men films are, and that I once, foolishly, enjoyed them.

Then, I'll tell you what happened.

I've been on this here message forum for years, and early on, I encountered Herr Logan, the guy who started up this thread, and it struck me how opinionated he was. Tough, but indeed very fair. And just a couple of years ago, I met an incredible guy, who well and truly became by best friend. Now, his name is Nicholas, and he's an absolute X-Men diehard, since childhood. Early on knowing him, I expressed how much I liked the X-Men films, and he merely sighed. It was then that he proceeded to tell me everything that was wrong with the films, and those who enjoyed the films.

When he was done, I was amazed. Not long after, observing the Fox Animated Series, I was amazed at just how much the films paled in comparison.

Now, I'm not the biggest X-Men expert in the world. I don't know much, but because of my buddy Nicholas, I've come to respect and enjoy the X-Men through him. We even went to X-Men: The Last Stand on opening day, although we were both cracking up and crying from the "poorness" of it. And we both agree that was the best of the three!!

What does this have to do with Herr Logan, anyway? Well, before I began the meat of my post, I wanted to just say how much I admire and enjoy talking to Herr Logan, because if I didn't know better, I'd almost say he was my friend Nicholas. And needless to say, I was quite impressed in another thread with how much Herr Logan "got" how bad the X-films were.

So anyway, my buddy Nick and I were talking about how we'd do popular comic book franchises, and he laid out for me how he would have done the X-Men films. I thought it was so fantastic, that I want to lay it out here, for you.

Prerequisite info: Yul Brenner as Magneto. Keep Patrick Stewert as Xavier. Keep Kelsey Grammer as the Beast. Glenn Danzig as Wolverine. (This is all he really had thought out so far) Have the comic book costumes. More subdued colors, of course. Put Wolverine in the brown/orange costume.

1st film: No Wolverine. Not even a hint of him. Start with the original team, pit them against Magneto and the original Brotherhood lineup. Magneto is captured at the end of the film. Include Sentinels.

2nd film: Wolverine comes in, but is far from a main character. Very far. Make him an extreme loner. Start to introduce new students like Rouge (who gets her "Ms. Marvel" powers by the end of the film, though not necessarily through Ms. Marvel for legal reasons). Magneto escapes, the X-Men must contend with both Magneto and Mastermold.

3rd film: Wolverine becomes a little more of a main character. Magneto was not re-captured, Mastermold/Sentinels is gone, but Apocolypse becomes a major threat, and Wolverine is kidnapped to become a new Horseman. Magneto/the Brotherhood team up with the X-Men to take down Apocolypse. Wolverine freed, of course.

That'a a rough outline of his plans, I can't remember all of the details, but that's a general outline. Needless to say, I was floored.

I mean, I appreciate the idea behind what Singer did. Make it realistic, because after the fiasco that was Batman and Robin people were a little weary of comic book movies. But that's why you make the film so good, yet accurate, that people look past the "yellow spandex." Or at least compromise. My buddy says that he would have even been willing to accept the black suits if they were less bulky and Wolverine had a mask. You know, I don't mind a realism revolution in comic book movies... I don't even mind alterations (as is plain to see, I'm a huge fan of the Burton Batman films, flawed as they may be), but not at the expense of destroying everything from the source material. You're supposed to honor it, not mock it. Which is symbolic of the "Yellow Spandex" line. It was pointing out that the source material was rediculous in some ways, which isn't how you do it.

I feel that Singer almost makes up for it with Superman Returns, a film that is infinitely better than bad (though it still sports a few flaws). But still, I think he needs to stay away from the X-Men.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Dammit, double post! Somebody delete, pelase.

 

[Herr Logan]

DocLathropBrown:

I owe you a big apology. I somehow missed this post altogether and didn't go back through my subscribed thread list to double-check. I've been on the Hype less and less since I started working retail again, and I was almost sure nobody even remembered this thread. Sorry, man.


Thanks for posting, and I appreciate your endorsement of my character.

You already know that I'm very much against the "realism revolution" in comic book movies, primarily because of the extreme degree to which it desecrates excellent characters and stories. I'm 100% in favor of enhancing the experience of a superhero story by filling in certain gaps with realistic elements and closely approximating real-life phenomena, and that's something that I think comes through when I describe how I'd do certain things in my ideal movies. However, when core elements of characters and stories are cut out because the creators of the adaptation are too cowardly and uncreative to try and sell the fantasy, that's just plain wrong. If you're going to use the names and even partial likenesses of these characters whom have starred in legendary and amazing stories, you should damn well actually use the actual characters.

When it comes to superheroes, the costume is more often than not an essential character trait. Certain alterations can be made in certain cases (and that absolutely does not apply to Superman or Spider-Man), such as darkening the tones of certain costumes, but you can't take away Wolverine's mask, give him long leather sleeves and pretend that a 6'2" pretty boy could pass for him. That's just false advertising. Wolverine is 5'3", has bare, hairy arms while in costume and has worn a mask for more years than not while with the X-Men. Piggybacking on the clothing trends of 'The Matrix' and other leather-fests doesn't count for sh1t when it comes to actual superhero costumes.
It takes far more talent/creativity/balls to figure out a way to bring the original images to life than to say "screw it" and start over with a completely bland look. Also, there's nothing "realistic" about the Movie!X-Men costumes. You can't do what they do while wearing leather over foam rubber and get the job done. When the actors pass out from heat exhaustion, it's time to switch to tights, because athletes actually do their

Anyway, the costumes are the least of the problems with the X-Men movies, obviously, but it's a perfect visual representation of how they stripped away essential and some of the most interesting aspects of each character. Make them all fan-fic versions of themselves wearing flavorless, unimaginative clothing, and get rich doing it. Bastards.

If the story, script, action and filming are good enough, the fantasy won't spoil it. Beef up the "realism" in places where it doesn't hurt anything, but don't go bragging to the public about how your movie is a "realistic" take on the source material. You won't catch me doing something so stupid, because I because in being right (as if you didn't know), and when you make movies like 'X-Men' and 'Batman Begins' and say that they're "realistic," you are clearly and obviously wrong beyond description. I don't want to appeal to audiences who want "realistic" superheroes. I want to appeal to the same audience that sees 'Star Wars' and doesn't question whether it's a sci-fi movie or a "serious drama." Which audience is that? Every-Goddamn-body, that's who. X-Men is a classic fiction franchise that grew immensely popular and inspired countless take-offs and imitations. Why not show the people the real deal? I still believe that authenticity counts for something. I want to appeal to an audience that has an appreciation for the superhero and epic genres, and since I would never have the intention of over-emphasizing the "realism" of the films, I couldn't be called a liar when plenty of sci-fi and action elements don't match up with the real-life laws of physics. 'Batman Begins' has absolutely no excuse for the multitude of utterly unbelievable aspects of the plot, but I would have all the defense I need against claims of "unrealistic" filmmaking; I'm making a superhero story and trying to bring the subject matter closer to reality when feasible, not the other way around.
Even if you couldn't explain a psychological or sociological occurrence in a movie (which is what I'm primarily concerned about in terms of "realism") in terms of real life, you can still make it work in your own fictional universe. So what if people in real life wouldn't believe a 6'3", 220 lb man in a grey and black costume that vaguely resembles a bat was an inhuman creature capable of superhuman feats? In the DC Universe, that's how it works, and you can't argue with that. So what if a real life movie-goer thinks that Wolverine in a skintight costume that's more than a few shades lighter than pitch black all over isn't as "cool" as the lanky hearthrob wearing a full-body rubber tire? Wolverine in the movie is still kicking as much ass as he ever would in any other costume. At least he is if you're doing it right. So what if the average viewer doesn't think Wolverine could be stealthy in anything but black clothes? He's either skilled enough to trick the eye and avoid the ear and remain undetected, or he's not. The only X-Man whose "realistic" stealth potential is in question regarding clothing is Nightcrawler. If he's able to disappear in shadows, I'm not going to give him white gloves and boots. Does that mean he's going to be all in black? Of course not; just substitute the same dark red in the center of his costume for the white, and it's good enough.

Here's another main problem with the X-Men movies summed up briefly: If you think Cyclops doesn't have enough depth, charisma or gravitas to make him the central character of an X-Men movie, you simply don't know the source material, and you've got no fecking imagination. Is the most stoic character the most interesting character? Not usually, but he can still hold his own if you give him enough to do and cover all the angles. You don't just *****fy him and make way for the cash cow. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have Wolverine upstage him when he shows up-- that's kind of inevitable, if you're being faithful to the older comics-- but I would never *****fy Cyclops. Singer gets the slightest bit more slack when it comes to Storm, since even I know that Storm was never a very "relatable" character. I don't expect these characters to be "relatable" to the average movie-goer, but Storm is even less relatable than Post-Crisis Batman. She's just... weird. Maybe wiccans and vegans with emotional repression issues can relate better, but even if she's distant and almost in a completely different world of her own, the filmmaker owes the audience a proper Storm. If she's not sellable enough by herself, then do what you're going to do with every other character anyway: reveal her character through interaction with others. These characters aren't nearly as interesting on their own as when they're with each other in the formative years of their respective memberships in the X-Men. That includes Wolverine. Sure, he can easily sell his own adventures on a weekly basis, but I always found him more interesting as an X-Man. Relationships in the X-Men movies were mostly shallow and underdeveloped, and some of the most important ones were ignored completely because the characters were unforgivably altered. Wolverine and Nightcrawler never sparred or shared a beer together. Why not? Because Movie!Nightcrawler was even more of a sham than Movie!Wolverine, and the two had nothing to talk about other than Weapon X. Escaped Weapon X assassin? Feck that "Ultimate" bullsh1t... I want the real deal. Where was the charming, flirty way with women he has? Where was one single real action sequence where Nightcrawler was actually Nightcrawler and not some mind-controlled puppet? Where was the theatrical and carefree flair he has? No, awkwardly stating "In the circuses of Munich..." in a terrible accent doesn't count; it's the lowest form of lip service. How the hell can his religious fanaticism and tattoos be considered interesting when compared with the real Nightcrawler? Oh, look, he's not just hideously deformed and fantastically agile, he's a complete, self-mutilating nutcase who cowers in the shadows of a church instead of even trying to be a part of the human race. Good going, Singer, you pretensious, egotistical assh0le. Why wasn't there a single believable moment of mutual affection between Jean and Cyclops? Because the filmmakers didn't care about that relationship. At all. They didn't care about the characters of Jean or Cyclops, period. Movie!Jean got more screentime because she was Movie!Wolverine's love interest, period. That's all wrong, and anyone who denies that is scum. Seriously, if you argue that it's appropriate to put more of an emphasis on Jean's feelings for Wolverine than her feelings for Scott, you're either a filthy liar or a deluded moron. This shouldn't be playing out like bad, teenage fan-fiction, it should be the very essence of these legendary characters. You know, I always found Cyclops and Jean very annoying as a couple, and I originally never liked Cyclops at all. After actually reading the older comics and seeing Cyclops in action, under extreme circumstances, I now know that he's a total badass and deserves recognition as such in the movies. I'm not going to say that I'm terribly entertained by Scott and Jean as a couple, but I've read more and have seen it play out more interestingly and compellingly than in the cartoon (the good one, not the pre-teen pandering bullsh1t 'Evolution'). The fact is, I'd have their relationship be one main focus of my ideal franchise, because I believe it can be interesting, or at least enough to keep from rolling your eyes too much while their relationship furthers the overall plot throughout several movies. Will that be the central theme of the franchise? Of course not. These aren't meant to be chick flicks, God dammit. Jean allows Cyclops to become more human and "relatable," and the contrast between how he is alone with Jean and how he is when he's on duty (which is almost always, as far as he's concerned) is supposed to be interesting. You get to see that his true badassery is grounded in love and compassion. You mess with the human race, and very likely a crimson beam of concussive force will knock you out cold. You mess with his loved ones-- the X-Men-- you get the sh1t beat out of you from his yellow-gloved fists. That's the Cyclops I want on the screen. That's the real potential of Cyclops, which we never got to see.


Ah, so much steam-of-consciousness ranting. Gotta love the predictability of me.

One last thing I'll say for now is that I'm realizing more and more just how much I'm likely to fall into the same trap of giving Wolverine a disproportionate amount of screentime and/or focus as Singer & Co. This is likely because I know more about him than the other characters, understand him well and relate to him more than any other fictional character. I also think he really is one of the most interesting and entertaining Marvel characters, especially if you have him evolve in a movie franchise the way he did in the comics (and yes, that has to be somewhat gradually). My defense is that at least my version would be the real Wolverine and not some half-assed waste of screentime. When he does something, it will be meaningful and in character. Yes, it will seem harder at first to tell what is "in character for him" (for a layman newcomer, I mean, not for we who have read X-Men comics), but his many dimensions and drives will be revealed along the course of the movies and it will become less erratic, how he switches back and forth between antagonist and team asset. I honestly feel that, of these characters, he's got the most substance to him. That doesn't mean the other characters get marginalized; it means he's a stand-out character among a team full of other interesting characters.
Another thing about him in my ideal franchise is that his full potential will be explored, without making him omnipotent. He will be, pound for pound, the best fighter in each movie, claws in or out. Some people write him off as a guy who throws out a few one-liners, pops his claws and gets knocked aside because they can't show too much violence in whatever story he's in (most people's reference point on these boards is the cartoon). Well, when the opponent isn't completely deserving of a swift death, he'll do some clawless fighting as well, and he can also purposely wound instead of kill with his claws (which is how I'd handle it in the video games that accompany the movies). His original station on the team is being the hand-to-hand fighter, and he'll also be the "get me out of these chains" guy in his movie, using absolute precision to free others from bonds with slashes that would be excruciating if off by one milimeter. He will grow to be the martial arts trainer of the rest of the team, an unofficial second-in-command to Storm when she's the boss, and a motivator for the rest of the team. He's the true inspirer of the X-Men, really, in the story and out of it, because he's the ultimate example of how compassion and belief in a dream can win over a hardened, cynical heart. He doesn't believe the dream will come true, but he believes that the dream is good, and he comes to believe that the X-Men are, to paraphrase Malcolm Reynolds of 'Firefly,' "His kind of stupid." He starts off as being not just asocial but sporadically antisocial-- as much a danger to the team as to the enemy, as witnessed when Nightcrawler innocently taunts him in a Danger Room exercise and nearly gets killed when Wolverine doesn't think it's so funny-- and then he becomes one of the most ardent supporters of Xavier's cause. Again, it's not about the result of their work, but the work itself. And yeah, the whole "family" thing, which becomes a huge theme by the time the new team gets comfortable with each other.

So much for a quick last note. Okay, one last thing: I was massively dissappointed with 'Superman Returns,' but we can't strictly argue about the virtues or flaws about that movie here or in any other Safe Haven thread (there is a Superman Haven), since the Havens are about noticing perceived flaws and improving upon them, but not defending what other people consider flaws. Unless you've got an equal or greater number of criticisms to expound upon, I suppose. Again, this isn't about being "strictly negative," but it's about imaginative progress and demanding more from products that don't fully deliver what their very titles promise.


Thanks again for posting Doc, and I'll see if I can't be more focused and cogent when I revisit this page. Again, I've been working retail during December... I'm pretty fried right now.

Happy Holidays, Havenites!

 

[Zev]

One of my pet peeves (and this is coming from someone who LIKES the X-Men movies) is when comic book characters are treated as basically name-drop source material. In that Elektra movie, you can't recognize any of the characters from their namesakes. Typhoid Mary is some chick who can suck the life out of stuff. How does that at all relate to a schzoid pyrokinetic? If you're going to make a character whose power is to kill people with lesbian kisses, don't call her Typhoid Mary. Save that name for the real Typhoid Mary and just admit that you're making up new stuff (cough cough Catwoman cough cough).

You don't see Peter Jackson filming LOTR and making Tom Bombadil this badass Elf commando who saves the Fellowship from the evil dragon Faramir. Comic books, for all their faults, are at best a part of American mythology and should be treated as such. Comic book characters should be treated as literary characters.

(Yes, this entire post was just an excuse to post that link. But I think it's worth it. Stay after the credits.)

 

[Herr Logan]

t:

 

[Goddessreicho]

Merry Christmas all, may we one day get what we ask for

 

[Herr Logan]

It's that time again. Time to ask you, the good people of the Safe Haven community, what you think I should do with regard to formulating an ideal movie concept.

Many of you are familiar with my basic plot proposals for my various X-Men movie concepts. Some people aren't, and others may have forgotten, so here's a brief summary. My next post will contain questions to which I'd like your answers.

Movie 1:
Intro to the X-Men saga, certain characters' origins, beginning of friendships and the Scott/Jean romance. Villains include Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants (Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Toad, Mastermind, Unus the Untouchable).

Movie 2:
Intro to the "Second Genesis" team of the X-Men, plot of 'Giant Sized X-Men' #1, where the new team rescues the old team from Krakoa the Living Island. The old team quits. Training and character interactions for new team. Modified plot for 'X-Men' #98-101, where three X-Men are kidnapped by Stephen Lang's Sentinels and the remaining X-Men come to rescue them. Jean Grey gets nuked while saving the others from massive radiation and becomes the Phoenix.

Movie 3:
The Dark Phoenix Saga, including the battle with the White Queen and her goons in Illinois over Kitty Pryde and the showdown, the Hellfire Club back in New York and the battle with Dark Phoenix in Central Park and outside the Grey family's house. Professor X defeats the Phoenix persona, but Jean Grey destroys herself anyway, rather than allow the threat of Phoenix to return and hurt the ones she loves. Cyclops leaves the X-Men, and Kitty Pryde is enrolled at the Xavier Institute. Angel guest stars as the facilitator of the X-Men's intrusion into the Hellfire Club, and the Beast returns to help fight Dark Phoenix.

Movie 4:
Kitty Pryde trains to be an X-Man, earning the codename Sprite. Storm is now field commander of the team. Wolverine trains the others to fight hand-to-hand and takes a special interest in Kitty. The retired Angel is kidnapped and brought underground by the Morlocks. The X-Men track him down and battle the Morlocks, almost losing Kitty to an illness created by a Morlock. Storm nearly kills Callisto in a knife fight. A new Brotherhood of Mutants (Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Destiny and one or two undecided candidates) is gathered, led by Mystique. The Brotherhood attempts to assassinate Senator Robert Kelly during a press conference where he will elaborate on his stated intention to run for President on a Mutant Control platform. The X-Men stop the Brotherhood.



Movie 5:

This one is undecided. I want some input as to which is the best way to go. I'll get into it more in my next post.

 

[Herr Logan]

Questions about what you think I should do with my movie franchise:


Movie 1:



Movie 2:

Should I include the search and rescue mission on Krakoa?
My instinct is to do so, since that will provide an urgent motivation to gather a new team. With the recruitment of Wolverine especially, I feel there needs to be urgency, since Professor X would hardly cross the Canadian government without a very good reason, and facilitating Wolverine's defection from his post is a good way to start trouble. I'm not going to have Wolverine's recruitment be the result of aimless wandering or some other half-assed new origin; I want his real origin intact. Furthermore, I believe a lot of good character interactions and preliminary character development could come from keeping the plot from Giant Size X-Men #1. The characters Thunderbird and Sunfire are great for dialogue and character conflict, but there are hardly needed if I don't use Krakoa. Sunfire will leave the team directly after the Krakoa mission, but Thunderbird will stay on and then die by the end of the movie.

If I do not use the Krakoa story, should I include Thunderbird and/or Sunfire anyway? Should I leave them out even if I do use that story, to cut the running time a little?

If I do use Krakoa, should I use a more faithful version of the Lang Sentinels/Phoenix Genesis story, where the Sentinels' base is on the moon (or possibly on an independent satellite base)?
My idea was to have it set on Earth to save on time, since it will already be a very long movie with Krakoa, the Sentinels and the additional character scenes in the story. If I do not use Krakoa, I will definitely set the Sentinel base in space. The question will then become whether or not I use the "X-Sentinels" (advanced robots that mimick both the behavior and the powers of the original X-Men, including the Professor), which I would leave out if I used Krakoa.

Should I use Errol Flynn as the basis of Nightcrawler's image inducer disguise, or should I pick another, somewhat more recent (but not from the recent era) actor?
It can't be someone like Johnny Depp or Orlando Bloom, since that would draw too much attention at first glance. Errol Flynn's prime was before the era in which the Second Genesis team appeared, so although he may have been recognizable, he was able to walk around without being swarmed by fans immediately. One way or another, I'd like to have Nightcrawler holographically pose as a famous actor from preferably a pirate movie (or it could be a space adventure movie with a swash-buckling hero, but maybe less recognizable than Harold Ford) to show off his personality and have Professor X or Cyclops warn him about doing it. The default is Errol Flynn, and I know it can be done with CGI or prosthetics.


Movie 3:

Should I open with an action mission sequence, with Jean demonstrating her augmented powers as Phoenix, that is independent of the Hellfire Club events?
I believe I'd like to start the movie with a bang either way (like James Bond movies and the like), since I want to show a number of characters interactions and specific development for Jean Grey before we get into the meat of the conflict with the Hellfire Club, and I don't want to make the audience wait for some real action. I could just do it in the Danger Room. Should I do that, or find an action villain whose story doesn't need any lengthy set-up?

Movie 4:

Should I put the Morlock plot before the Brotherhood plot?
I like to save the best for las, and the Morlock caverns are a very depressing and unexciting place to end the major action in a movie, although it could very well work. I simply like the Brotherhood better, even if there isn't the same level of danger to the X-Men themselves. The Morlocks certainly had the X-Men over a barrel in the comics, with Kitty Pryde made deathly ill and Storm taken hostage by Callisto. On the other hand, the danger posed by the Brotherhood is equally great in some ways, since it affects the entire mutant community. If Mystique and her cohorts kill Senator Kelly, it could very well be used as an excuse to re-commission the Sentinels and impose the Mutant Control Act that Kelly proposed. My version of this story would have Kitty be crucial in saving Kelly's life, which is a good climax for her development as a newbie superhero. Keep in mind, in the comics, the 'Days of Future Past' story, which is where this Brotherhood battle comes from, came before the Morlock story. In my movies, which villain plot do you think should go first?

Should Storm strike a fatal blow to Callisto during their battle for soveriegnty of the Morlocks? Should she become more ruthless in general following this?
Two of the qualities I want to emphasize for Storm in this movie are her strength as a leader and her compassion. While she steps up to take the place of a man who did his duty with grim determination and logic over feelings and seeks to follow his example, she also gets in touch with a maternal instinct and becomes very close with Kitty Pryde. To have her turn into a harder, colder person earlier on in the movie makes it possibly problematic when she has to tell Wolverine not to kill Pyro later on. Then again, the reason she gave for that in the comics was that the last thing mutants needed was Wolverine carving someone-- anyone-- up on national TV, so maybe the publicness of it all is the key factor here.

If Storm's personality becomes darker and more ruthless, should she change her clothes and hair to match like she did in the comics?
I personally would prefer not to change her appearance too much. I don't like the mohawk, and I prefer her wearing one of her black X-Men uniforms to the biker gear. Then again, I could work with the biker gear, even if I'd still dislike the mohawk. There's usually an option to merely change a uniform so that it projects a certain style, but since Storm will already be wearing a black latex-ish (it's really unstable molecules), almost fetishistic bodysuit in the previous two movies no matter what, I'm not sure how much further you can push it and still be a worthy superhero costume. As always, I want to stay faithful to the comics. I just really think she looks more like a real leader when she's got her regal look-- that white mane of hair and that billowing cloak. Also, she's just hotter in general that way .

Should I add another Brotherhood member, considering I'm going to use Rogue here? If so, should it be Spiral or the Toad?
I know for sure I'm going to use Mystique, Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Destiny and Rogue, but I'd like to showcase as many villains as possible. I might use Angel in this fight as well. I'm looking to put the X-Men at a disadvantage in this fight, although that could easily be done with Rogue being there and no one else added. Pyro and Avalanche are pretty easy game in some ways, and although my version of Destiny (who is a relatively young-looking woman in her late 50's instead of descrepit... I mean, she had a reasonably revealing and sexy costume in the comics, and since I'd use something very similar in my movies, I'd like to get the most out of it) would be an experienced fighter, she probably wouldn't be able to outfight even Nightcrawler. I want a fight between Destiny and Sprite, which will seem almost evenly matched, since Wolverine has been putting a lot of time into making Kitty a fighter. Destiny will also be armed with a crossbow and maybe some other nasty surprises. Spiral joined after this story in the comics, and at that point it was called Freedom Force, not the Brotherhood. I'm leaning toward using Spiral, if anybody. She was a heavy hitter on that team later on, and she's the perfect match-up for Wolverine as a physical combatant. Unlike in Bryan Singer's ego-trip, the real Mystique-- who I'd be using-- isn't at all a real match for Wolverine in a hand-to-hand fight, and the only person who could take him if he got close enough is the Blob, who is invulnerable to even adamantium claws. Spiral vs. Wolverine could be a very good thing. The Toad is a good character, visually (I know he's ugly, but his powers make for great action), and his personality can make for good character interactions. He could be sprung from the Vault at the same time as the Blob (Mystique will break Blob out early on in the movie). Then again, Spiral could also be broken out at that juncture. Spiral isn't from the Earth, so her status as a "mutant" is up for debate, but I don't intend to have her origins explained at all. I won't be so lazy and cliched as to have her be another silent combatant, but she'll probably be a woman of few words, or at least fewer that people like Pyro and the Blob. The things she does say will have several references to entertainment as a way of life, which hints at where she comes from-- the Mojoverse, where television is the only industry that matters. That sort of echoes Nightcrawler's M.O., being an entertainer previously. Anyway, my vote goes for Spiral as the seventh Brotherhood member, if there is to be one.


Movie 5:

What should the plot be about?
Here's what I know for sure about Movie 5:
The original X-Men team members will have returned at the end of the previous movie, or at least the living ones. Rogue will have come to Professor X for help with her psychological problems and her uncontrollable absorption powers toward the end of the previous movie after the Brotherhood battle and before Cyclops and the others come back. By this movie, she'll have trained enough and made enough psychological progress to be allowed a position of probationary X-Man. I want to add Psylocke and Gambit to the roster as well. I also want to bring back Jean Grey. That will leave us a total of 13 X-Men (Banshee will have been gone since the end of Movie 2... sorry I forgot to mention that before). I'd like to split them up into two strike forces-- blue and gold. All the newbies (Kitty, Rogue, Psylocke, Gambit) will be on Cyclops' Blue Team, and Cyclops will ask Wolverine to help whip them into shape, since he has displayed some real leadership skills and helped turn Kitty into an X-Man.

1) My original idea was to do a story with Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse as the main villains and do the Morlock Massacre thing. The problem here is that this has to happen, or begin happening, during the first half of the movie, and to replay key events from the comics, that doesn't lend itself well to the Blue/Gold split, which should happen shortly after Psylocke and Gambit join towards the beginning of the movie. Mr. Sinister plays a major role in that he is responsible for Jean Grey having been able to die in Movie 3 and also be alive right now (I'll get into that a little bit later). Mr. Sinister will be something of an underboss for Apocalypse, and while the Morlock Massacre is in the spirit of Apocalypse' philosophy, it was mainly Sinister's idea. Sinister will have contracted the Maurauders, including Sabretooth, to do the killing. Apocalypse will have Angel, who would have been wounded badly in the Massacre, abducted and transformed into a creature of hatred and violence, fully loyal to Apocalypse. His strength will be augmented and he will have organic/metal wings implanted to replace his damaged original ones. He will be the Horseman of Apocalypse called Death, while Apocalypse also will recruit and transform three other mutants to embody Pestilence, Famine and War. They will ride huge, genetically engineered and cybernetically enhanced flying horses and wreak havoc upon the populace. Good times. The X-Men will defeat the Marauders (with a knockdown-dragout fight between Wolverine and Sabretooth) and then the Horsemen and then Apocalypse, with probably a showdown with Mr. Sinister in there somewhere. That's my original plan, minus the details about Jean Grey.

1a.) Should I have the Phoenix shown in Movie 3 be a clone, thus allowing the real Jean return in Movie 5?
My idea is to have Mr. Sinister replace Jean Grey with a perfect clone (or possibly a mostly-perfect clone) either right before, during or shortly after her massive radiation exposure and transformation toward the end of Movie 2, off camera. That allows the real Jean to come back, and pays homage to the classic retcon where the Phoenix entity copied Jean's body and memories rather than possessing her and using the real body. It also pays homage to Madylene Prior, a clone of Jean created by Mr. Sinister, without getting into Prior herself and the beginning of Cyclops' downfall as a character (running out on his wife and newborn child like a little b1tch) in the comics. If I use this plot, that will make it extremely personal for Cyclops, who will be the one to defeat, or apparently defeat Sinister. I'm thinking of ending the movie with the wedding of Scott Summers and Jean Grey. Should I do this?

2) Should I forgo the previously described plot and bring Magneto back, complete with the Acolytes (which will include or be backed up by previous members of both versions of the Brotherhood of Evil mutants) and a big ol' Asteroid base?
Magneto should face the newer X-Men in the movies, but I never found space for him, with all the other villains that needed to be shown. On the other hand, I don't want to use the story from 'X-Men' (volume 2) #1 (by Chris Claremont and Jim Lee) as an exact translation. This is where Magneto meets the Acolytes. I'm fine with the parts they showed in the animated series, with Fabian Cortez using and betraying Magneto, but I don't want to try and get into the thing from the comics where Magneto was turned into a baby and left in Moira McTaggert's care and Moira actually messes with his body chemistry so he hopefully wouldn't be a villain when he grew up. There's no room in the backstory for that, since the actual de-aging would have had to be shown, and a flashback that came out of nowhere is just cheap. I could combine elements from the 'X-Men' #1 story with ones from 'Fatal Attractions', but I don't want Wolverine to actually get his adamantium stripped from him. It could almost happen, like was hinted in two of the actual X-Men movies, but ultimately not happen. There's too major ways the Magneto plot could end in that movie: Fabian Cortez sabotages Asteroid M so that it will fall to Earth and kill everyone on it and a weakened Magneto sacrifices himself to save it, or it could end like in 'Fatal Attractions', where Magneto makes a particularly vicious attack on an X-Man and Xavier shuts down his mind in return. What do you think?

So, which plot should I use for 'Uncanny X-Men 5'? I could use the Magneto plot in Movie 6 instead, leaving room for Sinister/Apocalypse in Movie 5.

I'd very much appreciate any feedback you guys could give me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Infinity9999x]

For the first movie (lots of these ideas are ideas being thrown around in the x-men tv series thread, you should check it our Herr) I would use the original members of the team, all around 16 to 17 years old, as depicted in the first comic.

I'd have some of the first members already recruited, and begin the movie with Prof X. recruiting the rest of the first five. I'd really want to emphasize how hated these children are and feel, and show how hard it is for Xvaier to get anyone to come to his school.

I'd also have Prof X slightly unsure of himself. His fears hightened when Beast and Angel get into a small fight, but the ensuing fight damages a great deal of furniture and such, and Xvaier wonders how wise it is to try and get a large number of super powered adolescents under one roof. Not to mention teaching them how to use their powers in an aggressive manner, even if it is to eventually help people. Added on to this, Prof X had been monitoring Magneto even since their falling out, and suddenly he cannot locate him anymore.

During all this, I would also have Magneto (with his helmet designed to keep Prof X out) in the backround, plotting an attack on humanity. It would only show him in quick snippets, formulating his plan and constructing the proper tools to aid him. (I'm not quite sure what the plan is yet, but you get the drift)

I would also treat this as a coming of age tale. The five train hard, and slowly begin to master their powers, as well as the self hate they feel for themselves for being mutants. While at the same time going through all the things teenagers have to expierence to begin with. I'd show Scott and Jean's romance slowly begin to kindle and such.

Their final test would of course be the showdown with Magneto. After the battle, the X-men are of course victorious, but also badly injured. The rest of the world has mixed feelings about them. Yes, the x-men saved them from a very dangerous mutant, but what happens in this group of mutants decides to turn on them, who would stop them?

So while the X-men are heros, they're still treaded about nervously. But they also learn that while they may never gain full acceptance in the human world, they've learned to accept themselves.

 

[Herr Logan]

For the first movie (lots of these ideas are ideas being thrown around in the x-men tv series thread, you should check it our Herr) I would use the original members of the team, all around 16 to 17 years old, as depicted in the first comic.

I'd have some of the first members already recruited, and begin the movie with Prof X. recruiting the rest of the first five. I'd really want to emphasize how hated these children are and feel, and show how hard it is for Xvaier to get anyone to come to his school.

I'd also have Prof X slightly unsure of himself. His fears hightened when Beast and Angel get into a small fight, but the ensuing fight damages a great deal of furniture and such, and Xvaier wonders how wise it is to try and get a large number of super powered adolescents under one roof. Not to mention teaching them how to use their powers in an aggressive manner, even if it is to eventually help people. Added on to this, Prof X had been monitoring Magneto even since their falling out, and suddenly he cannot locate him anymore.

During all this, I would also have Magneto (with his helmet designed to keep Prof X out) in the backround, plotting an attack on humanity. It would only show him in quick snippets, formulating his plan and constructing the proper tools to aid him. (I'm not quite sure what the plan is yet, but you get the drift)

I would also treat this as a coming of age tale. The five train hard, and slowly begin to master their powers, as well as the self hate they feel for themselves for being mutants. While at the same time going through all the things teenagers have to expierence to begin with. I'd show Scott and Jean's romance slowly begin to kindle and such.

Their final test would of course be the showdown with Magneto. After the battle, the X-men are of course victorious, but also badly injured. The rest of the world has mixed feelings about them. Yes, the x-men saved them from a very dangerous mutant, but what happens in this group of mutants decides to turn on them, who would stop them?

So while the X-men are heros, they're still treaded about nervously. But they also learn that while they may never gain full acceptance in the human world, they've learned to accept themselves.

Thanks for posting, Infinity.

That sounds like a very viable plot for a movie.

You already know I'd do many things different in my movie concept (which I'll be happy to reiterate, if anyone wants me to), including having Magneto appear earlier in the film, having more than one confrontation with the X-Men and be backed up by the Brotherhood of Mutants. The original Brotherhood, that is, not that inane Mystique and Sabretooth crap. The main problem with that is, that requires screentime paid to the interpersonal drama going on in the Brotherhood (mostly surrounding Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, who don't really belong there), and I don't even have the actual villain plot conjured up very well.

Another thing I'd do differently is have a fight between Angel and Iceman insteal of Angel and Beast, although I can see your pairing as being more even and visceral, since those are both close-contact fighters.

Thanks again for posting.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Thanks for posting, Infinity.

That sounds like a very viable plot for a movie.

You already know I'd do many things different in my movie concept (which I'll be happy to reiterate, if anyone wants me to), including having Magneto appear earlier in the film, having more than one confrontation with the X-Men and be backed up by the Brotherhood of Mutants. The original Brotherhood, that is, not that inane Mystique and Sabretooth crap. The main problem with that is, that requires screentime paid to the interpersonal drama going on in the Brotherhood (mostly surrounding Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, who don't really belong there), and I don't even have the actual villain plot conjured up very well.

Another thing I'd do differently is have a fight between Angel and Iceman insteal of Angel and Beast, although I can see your pairing as being more even and visceral, since those are both close-contact fighters.

Thanks again for posting.

No problem Herr. I do like your Brotherhood idea. I stayed away from it in my idea because I didn't know if I wanted to save them for another movie, or have them in this movie and go on to the pheonix saga later. (Which I'm still not sure about)

One thing I completley forgot about that I thought would be a good dynamic if the brotherhood was introduced, was the point you made about Quicksilver and Scarlet witch. I really think that would give the villians some nice added drama.

And actually, Iceman and Angel do make more sense. I simply went with the first two characters that popped into my head that I thought would give a good visual fight. Iceman would fit better, seeing as how he's always been the more carefree and reckless type, and he could easily annoy his other team mates.

One thing I'm still not really sure about is the costumes. While yellow and blue would be more faithful, I must confess I've just never liked the look. And I absolutley hated Wolverine in it (I'm a brown and tan guy all the way). I just don't really know what style I'd go with that would stay faithfull to the comics, while not making them look too much like bumblebees. I did toy around with a black and yellow style, simmilar to Ultimate X-men. If I did decide to stick to traditional, I'd want their suits to be simmilar to the FF4's, and make the blue very, very dark, and probably a darker yellow...almost tanish color, just to take away the bumblebeeish look.

 

[Herr Logan]

No problem Herr. I do like your Brotherhood idea. I stayed away from it in my idea because I didn't know if I wanted to save them for another movie, or have them in this movie and go on to the pheonix saga later. (Which I'm still not sure about)

One thing I completley forgot about that I thought would be a good dynamic if the brotherhood was introduced, was the point you made about Quicksilver and Scarlet witch. I really think that would give the villians some nice added drama.

In my movie concept, the major tension within the Brotherhood would stem from the Scarlet Witch's sense of obligation and gratitude towards Magneto for saving her life. Because of this, Wanda agrees to help him create a better world for mutants, although she is not completely gung-ho about starting wars and so forth. She's pretty naive about Magneto and thinks that, though his methods are "a little extreme," he's a good man, and because she experienced humanity's hatred and violence towards mutants firsthand, she believes something has to be done to protect mutants.

Quicksilver, Wanda's ever-protective brother, doesn't like Magneto in the slightest and knows that he's a dangerous, self-important zealot, not a benevolent "freedom fighter." Pietro also feels jealousy towards Magneto since Magneto saved Wanda basically the one time when she needed Pietro and he wasn't there. Because Wanda has chosen to stay with Magneto, Pietro feels he also has to stay to look after her. He doesn't feel any passion for Magneto's cause, but he doesn't love humanity enough to oppose him, either, since they have ostracized and attacked him and his sister.

Magneto has, of course, recruited other dangerous criminals who could try to hurt her even before Magneto has a chance to get her killed in his insane race war.
Unus the Untouchable is an opportunistic thug who primarily cares about money and having "the good life." He hasn't made any unwanted advances on Wanda yet, but you never know (especially if you're an overprotective brother).
Mastermind is a stone cold sociopath who's out for power. He's shown an unhealthy interest in Wanda, has behaved badly in that regard and gets physically assaulted by Quicksilver because of it. Mastermind will prove his ultimate twisted potential in 'Uncanny X-Men 3' when he turns Phoenix into Dark Phoenix.
The Toad is basically an anomic personality-- he latches onto others and does as they do. Since he doesn't seem to have a moral compass of his own, observes violent criminals daily and also has a creepy attraction to Wanda, Quicksilver doesn't want her alone with him, either. The Scarlet Witch is not helpless or defenseless, but hey, if it was your sister, would you let her out of your sight if you two were living in a den of violent terrorists and mercenaries?

Magneto inexplicably likes Quicksilver, and not because Quicksilver shows him any respect. He senses nobility in him, as well as competence. He'd like Quicksilver to be his second in command, but since his heart isn't in it, Mastermind takes a more active hand in running things and Quicksilver does the bare minimum for the team and just does things to make Wanda's life safer.

In my concept for 'Uncanny X-Men,' Magneto does not know that Wanda and Pietro are his children, and they do not know he's their father. There can be hints, but no outright dramatic irony (unless Professor X somehow reads it in their minds after the big fight is over and then still doesn't tell anyone) or acknowledgement.

And actually, Iceman and Angel do make more sense. I simply went with the first two characters that popped into my head that I thought would give a good visual fight. Iceman would fit better, seeing as how he's always been the more carefree and reckless type, and he could easily annoy his other team mates.

I just noticed, at least in the first few issues, that those two had more arguments than Beast and Angel, and that Iceman and Angel were both more hotheaded than any of the others.

One thing I'm still not really sure about is the costumes. While yellow and blue would be more faithful, I must confess I've just never liked the look. And I absolutley hated Wolverine in it (I'm a brown and tan guy all the way). I just don't really know what style I'd go with that would stay faithfull to the comics, while not making them look too much like bumblebees. I did toy around with a black and yellow style, simmilar to Ultimate X-men. If I did decide to stick to traditional, I'd want their suits to be simmilar to the FF4's, and make the blue very, very dark, and probably a darker yellow...almost tanish color, just to take away the bumblebeeish look.

I'm not entirely sure what to do about the original costumes, either. There need to be blue (or black) and gold colors in the uniforms, though, no question. Those were the colors and that has been re-emphasized over time. There could be less yellow/gold in the suits than in the comics, though, and it could be remade into more functional harnesses for the torsos, just like the "trunks" in most of my movie concepts will be customized rappelling harnesses.

One way or another, they need to be wearing those colors at some point, and preferably during a field mission at least once. I could have it be that the blue and gold suits are training uniforms and when they first have to fight Magneto without much warning (as in, they get a report that he's attacking a military base and they have to leave the Mansion immediately), they go wearing those. They could get their individualized costumes after successfully forcing Magneto to retreat the first time. Cyclops would still be wearing yellow gloves (which can be justified if need be by citing hand signal visibility as a factor) and a gold pelvic harness, but it would still be less yellow, anyway.


For Wolverine, which would come later on in the franchise, like I said, you could still use the original design of his costume and just use deep orange/tan instead of yellow and brown instead of blue. That could still look pretty awesome.

 

[Herr Logan]

Just a reminder that I'd like to hear people's thoughts as to the questions I posted above. I also have another one about Movie #2:


If I have the Lang/Sentinels base set on Earth, should I have the X-Men (who haven't been captured) track down Bolivar Trask and make him tell them where their friends are being held? I think this would be a good way to keep the secret base inaccessable to Cerebro but give them an interesting way to find them. If the base is set on the Moon, then I could have the Trask interrogation and/or the original way they found them. Thoughts?

 

[Herr Logan]

Nobody's answering my questions! Why??!


Well, despite the fact that nobody cares, I'll just ramble a little bit.
I recently bought 'Essential Classic X-Men' Vol. 2 and am almost done with it. It has convinced me that not only must I keep the double date between Bobby, Hank, Zelda and Vera in my concept for 'Uncanny X-Men', but they must go to a cafe where Bernard the Poet is spouting his mediocre verses. Tribute to the classic material will be my trademark when I am a renowned filmmaker. I'd also like it if they could go dancing, but I do want to keep a near-fight between Bobby and a bigoted idiot mocking Hank's appearance, so I may have to forgo the dancing.

I'm also thinking of expanding Magneto's Brotherhood of Mutants to include several recognizable early villains (such as the Vanisher, who did not work for Magneto, but did team up with other Brotherhood members when they were in league with Factor Three... also Mesmero, possibly Sauron, etc.) in cameo roles during the big fight toward the end. It would be good if the Blob could show up. The Blob is slated to show up again in 'Uncanny X-Men 4' when Mystique breaks him out of the Vault. It was supposed to be mentioned that the Blob worked under Magneto and fought the original X-Men before, so this would just cement that fact and give a nice, expensive visual (less expensive if he just uses a fat suit and doesn't have to deal with Cyclops, Iceman or Marvel Girl too much).

This would boost costs overall, as it will jack up the action, costumes and casting, but it might be worth it. I feel like it would be more impressive and substantial if Magneto really had a miniature army behind him instead of just five mutants. It would also truly stack the odds against the X-Men, possibly too much.


One thing I want to do is have the X-Men's involvement in the final battle be against the Professor's wishes. I want the second big villain fight to go somewhat poorly due to lack of team coordination, resulting in a big argument amongst the students back at the school and somewhat of a drop in Xavier's confidence in their efficacy. When Magneto has finished building a device that, in almost a mirror effect to Cerebro, boosts his powers and gives him much longer range, he'll demonstrate his power by raising and activating a volcano in a sparsely-populated city (as a warning shot, of sorts, with a controlled lava flow that leaves the death rate low or at zero) and threaten to do the same major cities across the world if the rest of the world doesn't disarm their major weapons and cede him sovereignty over the planet. He'll be attacking and broadcasting from an island stronghold where his Brotherhood readies themselves to be dispersed to these major cities to take power. Xavier will, without warning, take an aircraft from his hangar and depart to face Magneto personally after tracking him down with Cerebro's assistance. He will leave a recording for his students telling them to stay out of this conflict and keep their heads down. He doesn't think the X-Men are ready to take on the Brotherhood. He loves them and believes in them, but they just aren't ready. He has left automated instructions for their continued training in the event that he does not survive his journey. Futhermore, he has disabled the remaining jet in the hangar so that the X-Men cannot make the trip.

Cyclops decides he isn't going to sit idly and wait for the Earth to fall prey to further attack. He asks Beast to override Xavier's electronic locks on the jet and also finalize the installment of the jet boosters they have been working on (so they can actually beat Xavier to the punch, for the purposes of the story). He then says that he won't ask any of the others to go with him, but they are welcome to come, as long as they follow his orders, as he is still deputy leader of the team. They all volunteer.
When the X-Men catch up to Xavier's aircraft, Professor X contacts them, perturbed by their disobedience. Cyclops reminds him that from the day they joined the school, the Professor has taught them that with great power comes great responsibility. Regardless of his wishes, they will honor their committment and responsibilities as superpowered mutants who know the difference between right and wrong. They will all face the danger together. Xavier accepts this, if only out of necessity since he can hardly spare the mental effort of controlling five eager young mutants' minds if he's going to face Magneto and the Brotherhood.

Xavier will help the X-Men at several points in the final battle, which will occur throughout a castle-like structure on Magneto's island. He will free them from a particularly nasty illusion of Mastermind's, notify them of one or two deadly booby traps and will probably be the one to ultimately defeat Magneto.

Thoughts?

 

[The Batman]

The thing about realism is....i bet you most of the general audience dosent give a crap...as long as the movie is taken seriously, and has something that appeals to them--they wont care.

Case in point....the spider-man franchise does not try to stress realism in the slightest. its also the top superhero franchise our generation has seen. However, films like "SR", "X-Men", and "Batman Begins", peddle the realism crap and cant even make half of what spider-man does. My point? People like when comic films are actually...comic films. Now, the spider-man films are pretty flawed, but one thing i can say for it is that it does try to bring the comic atmosphere to it.

X-Men couldve been like that. Costumes couldnt be done? They're lucky X1 came out before SR, Spider-Man, and FF, because everyone clearly knows now that that is crap. Several comic films have attempted spandex outfits and no one looks silly in the slightest. It's about ego, plain and simple. If filmmakers truly wanted to bring the comicverse to life, they could. Really, its just about stroking ego and changing things for the sake of changing things. And fanboys will believe any excuse you give em because they dont wanna look whiny or anything, and dont want to feel ashamed that they *GASO* like superheroes.

It's just a shame you never really got the rush for the x flicks that you got from the cartoon.

 

[Herr Logan]

The thing about realism is....i bet you most of the general audience dosent give a crap...as long as the movie is taken seriously, and has something that appeals to them--they wont care.

Case in point....the spider-man franchise does not try to stress realism in the slightest. its also the top superhero franchise our generation has seen. However, films like "SR", "X-Men", and "Batman Begins", peddle the realism crap and cant even make half of what spider-man does. My point? People like when comic films are actually...comic films. Now, the spider-man films are pretty flawed, but one thing i can say for it is that it does try to bring the comic atmosphere to it.

X-Men couldve been like that. Costumes couldnt be done? They're lucky X1 came out before SR, Spider-Man, and FF, because everyone clearly knows now that that is crap. Several comic films have attempted spandex outfits and no one looks silly in the slightest. It's about ego, plain and simple. If filmmakers truly wanted to bring the comicverse to life, they could. Really, its just about stroking ego and changing things for the sake of changing things. And fanboys will believe any excuse you give em because they dont wanna look whiny or anything, and dont want to feel ashamed that they *GASO* like superheroes.

It's just a shame you never really got the rush for the x flicks that you got from the cartoon.

Amen to all of that.

I do disagree with you on one point, though. While the actual truth of the matter is that the Spider-Man movies were not the least bit realistic, there was plenty of talk about "realism" as an excuse for some of the drastic changes from the proper mythos. It's the same as with 'Batman Begins', where "realism" is their excuse for sucking the flavor out of the franchise, but the movie is as unrealistic as any cartoon. That kind of hypocrisy, dishonesty, egotism in action and cowardice is inexcusable.


I'm trying to envision a proper classic X-Men uniform that will look good on screen without provoking too much jeering from the "general public" and the cowardly masses of self-hating fans. While it is simple to change a costume like Wolverine's too rise above the hated color yellow (turn the yellow to orange and the blue to brown), I wouldn't tolerate that kind of departure for the classic uniform. The X-Men's standard colors were blue and gold, or black and gold. One way or another, you're getting yellow, or it's simply not authentic. I'd like to reduce the amount of yellow from the original, but I wouldn't dare eliminate it.

While I've justified adding trunks to various superheroes' costumes by making it a customized rapelling harness, something that works perfectly for the X-Men, it doesn't quite cover the use of a color like yellow. However, I figure the addition of a functional basis for the trunks, with no further comment and sufficiently entrancing surrounding visuals should be enough to let it stand alone. In the same vein, I'd like it if the yellow parts of the torso could be made into some form of utility/protective harness. This will give more of a professional look.

If needed, I can justify why Cyclops, if no one else, wears bright yellow/golden gloves. He would actually want his hands fully visible, for hand signals and the like. I don't know how tactical squads work in general, but I imagine that non-leaders have signals to give as well, so that works for the whole team. What about the boots?, you ask. Why do the boots have to be yellow, too? Shut up and enjoy the God damn movie, dammit!


The yellow parts of the Banshee's costume in 'Uncanny X-Men 2' would be a utility harness just like the Angel's in the first movie. This harness is constructed in such a way to distribute weight comfortably when other team members or civilians grab onto various straps on Banshee's costume while he flies. I'm also thinking there should actually be straps from which an X-Man can hang from him. The way I've planned the Banshee's descent onto Krakoa towards the beginning, Wolverine is actually attached via those straps, since there is time to make such a preparation. In more spontaneous instances, people can merely grab a hold of straps lining Banshee's uniform.


'Uncanny X-Men 2' is where the issue of costume color and stealth is directly addressed. When the new guys are conversing in the locker room before the big briefing about Krakoa and Thunderbird says he'd like something a bit stealthier, Wolverine-- in a tan/orange and brown and tiger-striped uniform complete with wing-eared cowl-- chimes in and says "Stealth ain't about colors, it's about skill; either you got it, or you don't. If I don't wanna be seen, I won't be seen. The rest o' the time, I want folks to know who's steppin' up right from the get-go." That's why he wears the mask; not to hide, but to advertise, because he likes recognition. Wolverine will also make derisive comments about "trendy" crap like black leather catsuits and how ridiculously impractical that is. They'll be wearing neoprene suits (in reality) that will pass as specially made bodysuits made of unstable molecules. You can't argue with the practicality of using space-age material specially suited to the job at hand.

Bottom line, Wolverine is right about the stealth thing as far as the Marvel Universe reality is concerned, and not only can no average movie-goer argue with that, if they don't know that the X-Men have never been a particularly stealthy group, they shouldn't be allowed admission. The X-Men's trademark is that you can generally tell where they've been. Sure, they attempt a sneaky entrance occasionally, but more often they tend to knock on the door with a devastating beam of concussive crimson energy.

Furthermore, in 'Uncanny X-Men 2', the character of Nightcrawler is introduced, and while his costume may actually be seen as stealthier than others (it's mostly black with dark red, and I've decided to change his white gloves and socks for dark red because I believe his shadow-blending abilities-- which are not conclusively mutant-related-- are implausible with white clothing) in its design, the character prefers a more flamboyant approach to superheroing and revels in the colorful, attention-grabbing aspects of the life. This also helps justify the equally, if not more, flamboyant look of Colossus, whose design, just like Thunderbird's, was picked fresh from his mind by Xavier on their way over to the mansion. The costumes were all put together when they arrived, since Xavier beamed the images back home to his mechanical costume maker. I don't care how implausible all that sounds, it's the best way to explain their having the time to make individual costumes in a time of urgent crisis when they're set to leave as soon as every new recruit is gathered.

 

[Herr Logan]

Another thing I've been thinking very hard about lately is the level of violence in the various movies. I'm thinking that, during certain scenes involving Wolverine from 'Uncanny X-Men 2' on, the ante goes up significantly, and instead of the cowardly/lazy work done in Singer's movies, the true impact of the violence gets its deserved attention.

While the only creatures Wolverine actually wounds before halfway through the movie aren't human (giant crabs, evil plants, Krakoa's humanoid-ish form), his less bloody attacks on humans should be sufficiently frightening (when he cuts General Chasen's tie and almost kills Nightcrawler for good-naturedly laughing at him in the Danger Room), and when he finally does draw blood, there should be enough actual blood shown that viewers get a true message of savagery and ruthlessness. This isn't gore for the sake of gore, nor should it be overly gory, but I was very dismayed at the way violence was handled in Singer's movies. In the very first movie, Wolverine impaled Rogue, and not only was there no actual blood seeping from the wound, it healed in seconds. His healing factor should not work that fast, and it should not have been that bloodless. Then he stabbed Mystique. Again, no blood. Later on, he stabbed Sabretooth in the chest with both sets of claws. It didn't even slow him down. In the sequel, he stabbed and slashed at several soldiers and there was no blood. I'm not saying I want to see blood for its own sake, but I do think there needs to be a more respectful and yes, even realistic, take on violence. They were so callous about it, but the true impact never got through. It was cartoony as hell, and in a pathetic way.

What I want is a movie where cartoonish action can run wild, but when the "gritty violence" aspects show up, it's not handled in a callous and irresponsible way. The true danger needs to be shown. No more cop-outs.


The savagery of Wolverine should be well-established by the time any human blood is spilled in 'Uncanny X-Men.' He is seen going wild on the giant crabs and the other dangers of Krakoa, and then his adversarial attitude around the mansion will keep everyone on edge. But things get really crazy after Sentinels attack the X-Men in Manhattan while they're shopping for Christmas presents (Wolverine himself is merely getting reacquainted with New York at this point), abduct Jean Grey, Banshee and Wolverine and bring them back to Stephen Lang's secret base.

After Stephen Lang has examined Wolverine, discovered that his skeleton is laced with adamantium, done a thorough background check on him (this may be the first time that his real name, Logan, is actually stated in the movie) and estimated the full extent of his powers (he thinks the titanium-chrome shackles should hold him, as his strength only goes so far), Lang slaps Jean Grey across the face after she insults him. Wolverine goes into a full-blown berserker rage at this, snaps the shackels he supposedly isn't strong enough to break (he sort of "Hulked out" momentarily, just like his most famous combatant tends to), cuts his leg restraints off and starts carving his way through several guards to try and get to Lang. The primal scream he emits during and right after he breaks free should be horrifying, and Lang will start ranting about "These animals want to be treated like people??", and when he starts slashing guards, there should be some actual blood and some terrified screams while he roars and hisses. He should have the presence of mind to slash through Banshee's mutant restraining collar and the anti-sonic muzzle placed on his face. In one seemingly wild slash, he tears through both devices without scratching Banshee, showing both his strategic capacity even during his most feral moments and his perfect accuracy and mastery of movement.

This slightly bloody display will not be as bad as what happens in the next movie, when he is left alone against at least a dozen Hellfire Club mercenaries. There should be more blood in this scene, and it could be considered more or less chilling, as he is not in a berserker rage in this scene; he is simply taking care of business, and he doesn't feel bad about it. As usual, I'm keeping it faithful, so while I wouldn't show a lot of close-ups of the wounds, the intent is that Wolverine permanetly disfigures and maims these men. They are hardened mercenaries, trained at the Taskmaster Academy (yes, this will be mentioned specifically, since I want to put a lot of Marvel Universe references in), and Wolverine tears them apart like so much meat. These are the guys who in the comics had to be rebuilt with cybernets just to live, and they became the Reavers, taking their bloody, vicious revenge on the man who tore them up.

I can't think of any particularly grisly killings for Wolverine to perform in the fourth X-Men movie, but I can guarantee that in 'Uncanny X-Men 5', when he fights Sabretooth, it will be pushing the envelope. Then again, a whole bunch of Morlocks would be getting killed, too, so it won't be the only instance of bloody combat.


I'm not going for an "R" rating here. You can get away with a lot in a PG-13 movie, and there's no excuse for making an X-Men movie that isn't PG-13. Hell, I'd be fine with a Wolverine solo film as well, as long as respect was paid to the violence which would surely occur throughout. No more bloodless slashings and impalings. Either show that the violence is real, or leave it out. You can't have it both ways without being a fraud.