World SUPERMAN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More from

Zev said:
But, uh... isn't the entire Superman franchise the love triangle between Clark Kent, Lois Lane, and Clark Kent?

Not to mention the love triangle between Lex, Lois, and Kal-El they had in the comics. That would've been weird to see in a sequel to the Donner pics.

But, if it makes you feel any better, just mentally CTRL-H Richard White with Jimmy Olsen, Lois' platonic photographer buddy, and Jason White with... ummm... Kara Kent. Assume she came around between movies. There, now it's completely faithful to the comics.

Next time, I'll show you how Superman gets a new costume and becomes Superman Blue. And Clark gets a mullet.

Which is also faithful to the comics.

And people wonder why Batman is more popular than Superman...
Touche', you unscrupulous fiend.

When I said
Adding love triangles where none need be is one of the most cheap, uncreative, insipid and most low-brow writing maneuvers a screenwriter could pull!!
, I meant to say "where none need be and especially if it wasn't there in its original incarnation...."

As you well know, the so-called love triangle between Superman, Lois Lane and Clark Kent has been a staple of comics continuity from early on, and while it's inexcusably irritating to see something like the Batman/Chase Meridian/Bruce Wayne love triangle from 'Batman Forever' or the entire Spider-Man/MJ/Peter bull$hit (again, and especially if it wasn't there in its original incarnation...), Action Comics is where the trend of using this entire of love triangles in superhero stories began.

The same can be said about the whole "perpetual damsel in distress" cliche. While it's absolutely unforgivable to cram something like that into a Spider-Man movie franchise (and yes, I'm talking about it happening to the same character again and again for no reason, not Gwen Stacy getting offed by the Green Goblin), as I told Hunter Rider earlier in this thread, Superman began that trend for superhero stories, so it's appropriate to use for his movies, to whatever point a reasonable fan could stand it.

What's CTRL-H got to do anything? That brings up my Internet history (that reminds me, I'd better clear that, pronto!). What are you talking about? I'm not up on the hip slang the cool kids are using these days. I ain't got the 411, know what I'm sayin'?

:wolverine
 
I'll admit, in Spider-Man I would've written it so when Peter starts walking away from the unbelievably hot woman who's warm for her form, I'd have MJ say "Is this because you're Spider-Man? 'Cause I kinda figured that out when your arch-nemesis kidnapped me specifically because you had a crush on me. Or are you gay for Harry?" But then, that's because I'm edgy and I like to throw bait to the slashers now and then. As you should know from reading my Spider-Man 6 script, where Eddie was clearly expressing latent homosexual urges for Peter by trying to kill him. See, it's subtext. It works on so many levels.

And just so you know, a lowest common denominator love triangle would be one where the non-hero man steps aside (because while he's a Nice Guy, but not The One. Read, he doesn't set the heroine's loins on fire) or where the part of the love triangle outside the star couple is a big jerk so that the woman can have a bit of "you go girl" empowerment and tell him off/smack him one, like in Titanic. In other words, one will the emotional mess of a woman having to choose one man out of two is negated by the decision being made easy or being decided for her, such as one of the men being killed.

And you should be pleased about Spider-Man 3, where they're apparently going to have a Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle, which is direct from the comic books.
 
Zev said:
I'll admit, in Spider-Man I would've written it so when Peter starts walking away from the unbelievably hot woman who's warm for her form, I'd have MJ say "Is this because you're Spider-Man? 'Cause I kinda figured that out when your arch-nemesis kidnapped me specifically because you had a crush on me. Or are you gay for Harry?" But then, that's because I'm edgy and I like to throw bait to the slashers now and then. As you should know from reading my Spider-Man 6 script, where Eddie was clearly expressing latent homosexual urges for Peter by trying to kill him. See, it's subtext. It works on so many levels.
You're a hero in that way, Zev...

And just so you know, a lowest common denominator love triangle would be one where the non-hero man steps aside (because while he's a Nice Guy, but not The One. Read, he doesn't set the heroine's loins on fire) or where the part of the love triangle outside the star couple is a big jerk so that the woman can have a bit of "you go girl" empowerment and tell him off/smack him one, like in Titanic. In other words, one will the emotional mess of a woman having to choose one man out of two is negated by the decision being made easy or being decided for her, such as one of the men being killed.
Any love triangle in a superhero movie that isn't based on the source material (see 'Superman Returns,' 'Fantastic Four,') and isn't portrayed exactly like it was in the comics (see X-Men films 1-3) is a lowest-common-denominator love triangle. Any superfluous love triangle is a lowest-common-denominator love triangle.

And you should be pleased about Spider-Man 3, where they're apparently going to have a Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle, which is direct from the comic books.
The only thing about 'Spider-Man 3' tht pleases me is that they've finally screwed it up so much that I no longer have to self-monitor myself when I say the entire movie is a piece of crap, and that the people who are vehemently defending the drastic alterations from the source material are not real fans of the real Spider-Man. I wished and prayed for the ambiguity and the shades of gray (the previous villains were extremely well cast, even though the first was horribly dressed and the second was horribly written, but now they don't have any of that going for them) to dissolve, and now it has. I have no hesitation when I say those things, and I'm a huge stickler for people being accurate in their speech/writing, as you may have learned.

Why would I be happy about the love triangle in particular? It's not straight from the comics. Not in the least. The real Spider-Man isn't anywhere to be found in any of these movies for more than a couple of seconds, barring the beautifully done full CGI scenes of the web-swinging in the first one. Movie!Peter and Movie!Spider-Man are nothing like the comics version, despite the costume and a few of the special effects (and I do mean few). Movie!MJ isn't anything like the real Mary Jane, and I have no big expectations from Movie!Gwen. Again, why would I be happy with this? I'm assuming you were appealling to the comics fan in me when you asked that question.

On the other hand-- if you were appealling to the nihilist in me-- if it's supremely bad and as far from the comics as Movie!Venom, Green Goblin Jr's costume and Movie!Sandman's personal history (having a wife and killing Uncle Ben), then that will make me very happy, since they'll have maintained a steady level of pure crappiness instead of fluctuating like they did in the previous two.

There's a chance I won't see the movie, though. I'll be terribly disappointed if I don't get to. :(

:wolverine
 
One, I'm pretty sure Sandman didn't kill Uncle Ben, and second, could you not spoil me for upcoming movies that I'm looking forward to? Do not mess with me, man, or I will descibe in excrutiating detail plot developments from Smallville.

For example, did you know Smallville introduced the "Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue" problem into Super-canon? That's right. Clark is actually worried about his super-sperm super-shooting so hard that it renders the difference between missionairy sex and anal sex moot.

Now, I trust we understand each other... or do I have to start telling you about what they did to Lois?
 
But back to the story. I think a scene something like this should be the first scene directly after the credits, in which we see Superman in costume (in the opening he's in the lead spacesuit) for the first time. Just, ya know, minus the gratuitous Batman references.

Although it would be fun to have a scene where Superman stopped by Gotham to offer help to Batman if he needs it and Batman just totally blows him off.
 
Zev said:
One, I'm pretty sure Sandman didn't kill Uncle Ben, and second, could you not spoil me for upcoming movies that I'm looking forward to? Do not mess with me, man, or I will descibe in excrutiating detail plot developments from Smallville.

What exactly did I spoil for you? Was it the part where Movie!Gobby Jr. looks like something out of the Sega Genesis game Kid Chameleon? The part where the only Movie!Venom casting choice I would have initially expected less than Topher Grace is Andy Dick? The part where every single supervillain in that movie franchise is required to have a deep, personal connection to Movie!Peter, thus rendering the whole "power and responsibility" theme decimated, if not completely obliterated for the semmingly preferred theme of "gotta take care o' my people, 'else I got nothin' to pine about"?


For example, did you know Smallville introduced the "Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue" problem into Super-canon? That's right. Clark is actually worried about his super-sperm super-shooting so hard that it renders the difference between missionairy sex and anal sex moot.

I know you're making that ***** up. Yeah, they've been throwing sex at the audience since early on, but I can't believe they would even broach those subjects.

Also, we don't talk about anal sex in the Safe Haven, Zev. Yes, this is a thread franchise based on putting our greatest fantasies out there for the rest of the true fans, but I think I made some pretty distinct guidelines as to what we're supposed to be discussing and/or proposing. Take it back to the Mondy Funky whatever thread where the Sodomy King himself-- Elijya-- can appreciate your imagination.

Now, I trust we understand each other... or do I have to start telling you about what they did to Lois?

Made her an undercover stripper? Made her Clark Kent's shower buddy? What do I care, it's 'Smallville,' and thus could not have less to do with the real Superman.

:wolverine
 
You can't fool me. You know as well as I do that backwash from Smallville spilled into Birthright, Superman's new Post-Crisis origin. Thus, I can frighten you with Smallville all I want!

For example, did you know that Lois Lane shows no journalistic initiative and instead feeds off the kindness of strangers, living in other people's houses while insulting them to their faces? Also, she's a high-school drop-out. And a boozehound.

And thanks to Infinite Crisis, this could all be the New World Superman canon! BWAHAHAHA!

I would tell you what they did to Lex Luthor and Clark Kent's relationship, but since you can't talk about... errr... nal-ay ex-say here, it'd be kinda pointless.

Anyway, back on topic.

Ummm...

What was the topic again?
 
Zev said:
You can't fool me. You know as well as I do that backwash from Smallville spilled into Birthright, Superman's new Post-Crisis origin. Thus, I can frighten you with Smallville all I want!

For example, did you know that Lois Lane shows no journalistic initiative and instead feeds off the kindness of strangers, living in other people's houses while insulting them to their faces? Also, she's a high-school drop-out. And a boozehound.

And thanks to Infinite Crisis, this could all be the New World Superman canon! BWAHAHAHA!

I would tell you what they did to Lex Luthor and Clark Kent's relationship, but since you can't talk about... errr... nal-ay ex-say here, it'd be kinda pointless.

Anyway, back on topic.

Ummm...

What was the topic again?

The topic was how to make ADAPTATIONS THAT ARE FAITHFUL TO THE COMICS, GOD DAMN YOU!

:wolverine
 
Right, okay.

First of all, Superman Returns took an important step from Pre-Crisis to Post-Crisis by making Lex Luthor inherit all that money (on the minus side, the CGI in the flashback was a little weak and the flashback on a whole was kinda pointless). Plus, so long as he doesn't starve to death on that desert island, it's his word (and as many attorneys as he can hire) against Lois Lane, Lois' kid, and Superman. So I'm guessing he's going to stay a free man for the foreseeable future.

While I wouldn't like to see him remain the main villain (Psst! Brainiac! Brainiac!), I would like to see him at least as a threat or even a nuisance. In the next movie, he should be smearing Superman in the public eye or making billions off the stock market or somehow collaborating with the villains. Possibly even making a villain, like Metallo or Parasite.

It's not that you can't make a Superman movie without using Lex Luthor. It's just... why would you want to? A Superman movie without Lex Luthor is like a day without sunshine and a day without sunshine is like... night.

Plot-wise, keep up the soap opera. One thing I hated about the original movies (and later, the Smallville TV series) was that they always went back to the status quo of "woman doesn't know Clark's secret, Clark's in love with her but they can't be together because of X, lather, rinse, repeat." Some forward motion on the plots, please. Something should change by the end, permanently. Even if Superman doesn't get together with Lois Lane, let her find out he's really Clark Kent or blow up the Fortress of Solitude or something.
 
Zev said:
Right, okay.

First of all, Superman Returns took an important step from Pre-Crisis to Post-Crisis by making Lex Luthor inherit all that money (on the minus side, the CGI in the flashback was a little weak and the flashback on a whole was kinda pointless). Plus, so long as he doesn't starve to death on that desert island, it's his word (and as many attorneys as he can hire) against Lois Lane, Lois' kid, and Superman. So I'm guessing he's going to stay a free man for the foreseeable future.

Superman's word would carry a lot of weight... if he hadn't abandoned the Earth for no good reason!!

Wait, what flashback?

While I wouldn't like to see him remain the main villain (Psst! Brainiac! Brainiac!), I would like to see him at least as a threat or even a nuisance. In the next movie, he should be smearing Superman in the public eye or making billions off the stock market or somehow collaborating with the villains. Possibly even making a villain, like Metallo or Parasite.

Sounds good.

It's not that you can't make a Superman movie without using Lex Luthor. It's just... why would you want to? A Superman movie without Lex Luthor is like a day without sunshine and a day without sunshine is like... night.

Exactly.

Plot-wise, keep up the soap opera. One thing I hated about the original movies (and later, the Smallville TV series) was that they always went back to the status quo of "woman doesn't know Clark's secret, Clark's in love with her but they can't be together because of X, lather, rinse, repeat." Some forward motion on the plots, please. Something should change by the end, permanently. Even if Superman doesn't get together with Lois Lane, let her find out he's really Clark Kent or blow up the Fortress of Solitude or something.

Fair enough.

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Superman's word would carry a lot of weight... if he hadn't abandoned the Earth for no good reason!!

Wait, what flashback?

The flashback to Clark Kent discovering he could fly... errr, hover. Yeah, sure, it was neat and captured how sweet it would be to jump old-school-Superman-style, but what was the point?

Singer should've saved it for the director's cut.

Also, just to add a few retroactive notes on the whole proposed "Superman Fights Back" thing. During the Superman/Luthor confrontation (one of the things I disliked about Superman Returns was that it felt like Lex Luthor and Superman were in two separate movies until the third act), Superman notes that Lexcorp Tower will be the tallest skyscraper in Metropolis, but as tall as Lex builds it, "I'll still be able to fly over it."

Then Lex tells him, sotto voce, that he made his Kryponite ring out of the same shiv he stabbed Superman with (the part he didn't leave buried between Superman's ribs). Can you imagine how intense that scene would be, especially considering that neither of them could attack the other due to the press being there? Although admittedly, hearing the slashers go on about it would be annoying. "Lex Luthor's talking about the time he penetrated Superman, they are totally gay for each other!"

On the character front, maybe make Clark obsessed with bringing Luthor down. He nearly died, Lois nearly died, because of this guy, it makes sense he'd be in the mood for a little payback. Of course, this is Superman, not Batman, so by the end he forgives Luthor, which obviously pisses Luthor off more than anything else he could do.

By the way, how do you feel about the scene of Superman saving Stephanie Brown?
 
It's surprising how still after all this time, Zev and I still kind of see eye on eye with some things. Once again, thanks for all your work on Spider-Man: The Series dude, you're definitely a great writer.

That's where I see the sequel somewhat headed as well. Lex Luthor inherited all of this money for a reason. Not just to have a cool looking set design with the Vanderworth mansion. Lex is more than likely going to use this money to set the foundations for LexCorp. That was one thing I noticed immediately on my first viewing of the film.

It was a great step toward post-crises. What many people don't realize is that Superman: The Movie mythos, unlike any other superhero film that came before it, is so well known that to create a totally different world would really throw ALOT of people for a loop. It's more known than Batman (the Burton film). And with Batman Begins, one of the still most common misunderstandings is that it was not a prequel to Batman. Thus, it's common sense that if they would have launched directly into post crises there would be many confused viewers of the general audience- "since when did Lex Luthor become a business man?". Now, Lex has all of this money and he's certainly going to use it- and I think he'll more than likely use it to build the foundation of LexCorp, and the general audience would not be confused because it fits with what they know. Lex loves power and land and Lex just got this **** load of money.

Thus, yeah- definitely in the sequel we will probably see more of a transition from pre-crises to post-crises. And more than likely the reason we didn't see post-crises right away is because it would confuse alot of the general viewing public, especially those who are very familiar with the Donners films. So, in looking at SR as a first installment- I personally think that Singer did a great job. Yes it could have been better- more Clark Kent, less Lois Lane, and toss in a supervillain; all of which Bryan probably has in plan- he already mentioned other Kryptonians in an interview as a possibility.
 
Zev said:
The flashback to Clark Kent discovering he could fly... errr, hover. Yeah, sure, it was neat and captured how sweet it would be to jump old-school-Superman-style, but what was the point?

Singer should've saved it for the director's cut.

Ah, I see.

Also, just to add a few retroactive notes on the whole proposed "Superman Fights Back" thing. During the Superman/Luthor confrontation (one of the things I disliked about Superman Returns was that it felt like Lex Luthor and Superman were in two separate movies until the third act), Superman notes that Lexcorp Tower will be the tallest skyscraper in Metropolis, but as tall as Lex builds it, "I'll still be able to fly over it."

Cool dialogue.

Then Lex tells him, sotto voce, that he made his Kryponite ring out of the same shiv he stabbed Superman with (the part he didn't leave buried between Superman's ribs). Can you imagine how intense that scene would be, especially considering that neither of them could attack the other due to the press being there? Although admittedly, hearing the slashers go on about it would be annoying. "Lex Luthor's talking about the time he penetrated Superman, they are totally gay for each other!"

Cool dialogue again.

You have a preoccupation with gay slash fan-fic. You know this.


On the character front, maybe make Clark obsessed with bringing Luthor down. He nearly died, Lois nearly died, because of this guy, it makes sense he'd be in the mood for a little payback. Of course, this is Superman, not Batman, so by the end he forgives Luthor, which obviously pisses Luthor off more than anything else he could do.

Heh! Forgiveness is the best revenge when it comes to evil, hateful people. That and taking away their power and leaving them in prison.

By the way, how do you feel about the scene of Superman saving Stephanie Brown?

You mean in a new hypothetical movie, or is this something that happened in 'Superman Returns'?

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
You have a preoccupation with gay slash fan-fic. You know this.

I know this? Just yesterday I marathon-wrote a series of lesbian porn ficlets in honor of our nation's Independence Day. Mystique-as-Jean and Emma Frost sex? HOT.

And the existence of gay slash fanfic will never stop being funny. We slash women all the time, who knew they slashed us back?

You mean in a new hypothetical movie, or is this something that happened in 'Superman Returns'?

:wolverine

Hypothetical movie.
 
Triligors said:
It's surprising how still after all this time, Zev and I still kind of see eye on eye with some things. Once again, thanks for all your work on Spider-Man: The Series dude, you're definitely a great writer.

Yeah, how did that go, anyway? Anyone comment on it? We get any recs?
 
Ended a while ago here at SHH. Lots of people liked it.

Sent it over to kryptonsite recently, since it's generally a similar concept as Smallville. A young superhero. For the most part LOTS seemed to have loved the Pilot episode and still waiting for reactions on the next two eps.

Also, it had great reviews when it was over at fanfiction.net.

So, it's looking pretty good fan wise. Not to mention I might be able to attain a phenomenal contact within my next couple of years at college- Hofstra University, one of their alumni is Avi Arad!!! So, looks like everything is really falling into place.
 
Zev said:
I know this? Just yesterday I marathon-wrote a series of lesbian porn ficlets in honor of our nation's Independence Day. Mystique-as-Jean and Emma Frost sex? HOT.

And the existence of gay slash fanfic will never stop being funny. We slash women all the time, who knew they slashed us back?

You knew it, Zev. You did. :up

Hypothetical movie.

Why is Superman saving Stephanie Brown exactly? Is this a reference from the comics, or what?

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Why is Superman saving Stephanie Brown exactly? Is this a reference from the comics, or what?

:wolverine

It's just a cute little scene. I mean, it's Superman saving a little girl and having a cutesy conversation with her. Doesn't get much more complicated than that.
 
Zev said:
It's just a cute little scene. I mean, it's Superman saving a little girl and having a cutesy conversation with her. Doesn't get much more complicated than that.
Well, it's not much of an Easter Egg, considering Stephanie Brown probably isn't an instantly recognizable figure for the majority of the audience and I haven't heard about any notable relationship between the two characters, but it's not offensive, and that's something. Sure, go with it.

:wolverine
 
Something just occurred to me:

Among the long list of "new" and "different" elements that J.J. Abrams planned to bring to the Superman movie-verse, most of them deemed controversial, objectionable and flat-out abominable, why was the idea of polar bears being seen in the Fortress of Solitude grouped along with the others?

Remember, this is Herr Logan-- Spokeperson for the Intelligent Purist, Servant of the True Comics Fans, and Bitter Foe of Conformist Studio Apologists-- speaking, so when I question critics' arguments against an element of an adaptation that wasn't in the comics, it actually means something.
So, why is it a big deal for this concept-- in and of itself, apart from J.J.'s other absurd and shameful intended story elements-- to be introduced in a Superman movie? Is it because critics of J.J's agenda simply added it on to complete the list, or is it because there's a real problem with that specifically? Is there a specific way in which the polar bears would act, or something to do with their method of access in relation to how the Fortress was, if at all, sealed or guarded from the outside world?

I personally think it would be kind of cool to see polar bears hanging around the Fortress of Solitude, if everything else was highly accurate to comics continuity (pre- or post-Crisis; either one is valid, and I'm an expert in neither, unlike other superheroes' histories which are represented in other Safe Havens).

The way I understand it, polar bears live at the North Pole, which is where the Fortress of Solitude exists. Now, I don't know how exactly how this idea was to be implemented, and I don't know how the Fortress was meant to be sealed off from the outside world or how the polar bears got in or if they could come and go. I guess it would be safe to assume Abram's treatment did not include a Fortress of Solitude that was accurate to the comics.
In the comics, the Fortress traditionally required a massive, ridiculously large and heavy key that few people other than Superman could use. If this was kept intact in a movie, then the bears would have to remain inside, or have something along the lines of electronic tags worn or attached to them that activated an opening somewhere, or a button they could press that was well-hidden or inaccessable to most human beings. Or maybe the Fortress wouldn't be sealed off at all, like the one in the various Superman movies, including 'Superman Returns.'
In any case the reason I think it would be reasonable is because, again, polar bears supposedly live in the same region as the Fortress, and also because Superman not only respects all life, but cannot be harmed by polar bears, even though they are the strongest and most fearsome animals native to the planet Earth that are still alive. I wouldn't even be surprised if Superman could communicate with them, which would afford him an understanding of whether the bears were likely to mess with his stuff. That's the biggest issue, really, whether or not they'd mess with his stuff. Anyway, that's my take on the situation.


Yes, I am indeed killing time while waiting for the bus that provides the simplest ride back home, and no, there was absolutely no need for this post. I thank you for your time and apologize for wasting it.
Have a blessed day, and do unto others as you'd have done unto you,and when a studio apologist is insulting towards you, tear their Goddamn, bootlicking, servile throats out and dance in their blood, because you know they'd do the same to you if they had half a chance!

:wolverine

EDIT: I could be confusing J.J. Abrams' ideas with Jon Peters' ideas. Apologies if I am.
 
Herr Logan said:
Something just occurred to me:

Among the long list of "new" and "different" elements that J.J. Abrams planned to bring to the Superman movie-verse, most of them deemed controversial, objectionable and flat-out abominable, why was the idea of polar bears being seen in the Fortress of Solitude grouped along with the others?

Remember, this is Herr Logan-- Spokeperson for the Intelligent Purist, Servant of the True Comics Fans, and Bitter Foe of Conformist Studio Apologists-- speaking, so when I question critics' arguments against an element of an adaptation that wasn't in the comics, it actually means something.
So, why is it a big deal for this concept-- in and of itself, apart from J.J.'s other absurd and shameful intended story elements-- to be introduced in a Superman movie? Is it because critics of J.J's agenda simply added it on to complete the list, or is it because there's a real problem with that specifically? Is there a specific way in which the polar bears would act, or something to do with their method of access in relation to how the Fortress was, if at all, sealed or guarded from the outside world?

I personally think it would be kind of cool to see polar bears hanging around the Fortress of Solitude, if everything else was highly accurate to comics continuity (pre- or post-Crisis; either one is valid, and I'm an expert in neither, unlike other superheroes' histories which are represented in other Safe Havens).

Well, as I understand it (and thus as it really happened), Kevin Smith had a scene in his Superman script where Brainiac and L-Ron (the "gay black robot" Jon Peters wanted in the script) entered the Fortress of Solitude. Jon Peters wanted an action beat, like he fights Superman's guards. Who are polar bears. Kevin Smith wanted to know why Superman would need guards, because he's Superman. I can agree that maybe Superman should have a forcefield or even a locked door (after all, that big crystal palace should be pretty easy to find, if you're looking for it), but polar bear guards? That Brainiac fights? It's just stupid.

Also, as long as we're adapting bits from the comics, can we include the scene where Superman films a porno?

superman2rf.jpg
 
Zev said:
Well, as I understand it (and thus as it really happened), Kevin Smith had a scene in his Superman script where Brainiac and L-Ron (the "gay black robot" Jon Peters wanted in the script) entered the Fortress of Solitude. Jon Peters wanted an action beat, like he fights Superman's guards. Who are polar bears. Kevin Smith wanted to know why Superman would need guards, because he's Superman. I can agree that maybe Superman should have a forcefield or even a locked door (after all, that big crystal palace should be pretty easy to find, if you're looking for it), but polar bear guards? That Brainiac fights? It's just stupid.

Also, as long as we're adapting bits from the comics, can we include the scene where Superman films a porno?

superman2rf.jpg

Brainiac fighting polar bears is indeed stupid. Superman having guards isn't necessarily a stupid idea, but having the bears doing the guarding? Granted, they are the nastiest creatures in the Animal Kingdom aside from humans, but that's why they wouldn't only guard effectively against anything other than humans-- or things more advanced and dangerous than humans. Who would they protect against? Penguins?

Anyway, I didn't realize they were supposed to be a legitimate line of defense. I thought maybe they were just pets or just animals Supes let wander around his clubhouse at their leisure, since that is the kind of person Superman is (someone who loves animals and isn't afraid of polar bears).
If it wasn't an unreasonable expense, I'd have some polar bears just hanging out in the Fortress and have Superman casually pet them and toss them some enormous steaks or something when he stopped by. But yeah, if I was going to have Brainiac attack the Fortress, I wouldn't pretend that regular Earth polar bears were a line of freakin' defense against any intruders that could give Superman trouble.

:wolverine
 
Possibly a little outside this thread's purview, but any Superman movie featuring Brainiac and Lex Luthor teaming up, even if only briefly, must feature a callback to the picture below in the poster (I think it would be a welcome change from Christ symbolism/character in cool pose; someone I would like to say to each and every cover artist working in the comics industry as well).

Superman_167.jpg


Imagine seeing that hung up at your local megaplex, only with real actors (or a CGI Brainiac if they choose to go that direction). I think that would pretty much absolve the WB of everything up to cancelling Justice League Unlimited.
 
Zev said:
Possibly a little outside this thread's purview, but any Superman movie featuring Brainiac and Lex Luthor teaming up, even if only briefly, must feature a callback to the picture below in the poster (I think it would be a welcome change from Christ symbolism/character in cool pose; someone I would like to say to each and every cover artist working in the comics industry as well).

Superman_167.jpg


Imagine seeing that hung up at your local megaplex, only with real actors (or a CGI Brainiac if they choose to go that direction). I think that would pretty much absolve the WB of everything up to cancelling Justice League Unlimited.

The trunks would still be tiny, but at least they'd be okay in proportion, since Superman would be tiny, too!

I'm not exactly rooting for a tiny caged Superman, but if it meant we'd get a supervillain who could actually take on Superman physically, I'd be open to it.

There's a lot of fuss over Superman's less than heroic performance in 'Superman Returns' when Lex and the gang are beating the ever-loving sh1t out of Superman on the New Kryptonian island. Apologists try to defend it by saying Superman was weak from the Kyrtonite. Funny how he seemed well enough to lift an entire Kryptonite island up to the edge of the atmosphere, while a shard was still lodged in his torso. I don't buy that the suns nurturing rays made him able to do all that when he couldn't defend himself against a group of thugs earlier, before he had a piece of it in his body. Yeah, Kryptonite weakens and hurts him, but that only means a God damn thing if you've got a heavy hitter going after him. At least that's the impression I got from the completely improbable (in context) things he did while beaten, touching Kryptonite and housing a jagged shard in his own body. They were incredibly inconsistent, and there's no excuse for it.

I hear the movie's not doing too well compared to projections and previous records. Golly, I never thought that an extremely lackluster script, a laughable attempt at an extremely simple costume to get right, and the damning remark made by Brian Singer that this was his first "chick flick" could have such an impact. Hell, 'Spider-Man 2' did amazingly well, and it had a horrendously bad script and clearly was a God damn chick flick. Oh wait, they actually got a very complicated classic costume right, and Sam Raimi didn't outright announce the shameful fact that he used hundreds of millions of dollars on a chick flick. Well, that explains it, then.

:wolverine
 
I watched the pilot episode of Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman on BitTorrent... man, that takes me back. I have family in Ohio that recorded that show and Full House on VHS. This was in the days before DVD boxsets, when video-taping was the only way to save a show you liked. I remember having Tiny Toons: How I Spent My Summer Vacation on a tape before my dad taped over it.

But I digress.

It's pretty amazingly faithful to the comics so far, considering the constraints of a TV budget. It packs more imagination and clever writing into its hour than Smallville does with all of its multimillion-dollar budget. The characters are likeable and well-cast, they've got the archetypial Perry White, Lex Luthor has his post-Crisis origin (Jimmy Olsen tells us that he's a "rags to riches" story)... and there's even a bit of the Lex/Lois/Clark triangle (the one where Clark is secretly in love with Lois while she's not-so-secretly in love with Superman while Lex is attracted to Lois). Sure, Lex has hair, but he did in the Bryne comics too, so that's forgiveable. I'd really like to see what the team behind it could do with the kind of budget Smallville gets.

That, and the pilot has a montage set to Bonnie Tyler's "Holding Out For A Hero" where Clark Kent tries on prospective costumes, including (I swear to God) Daredevil, Golden Age Flash, and Captain America outfits (they're just disguised enough not to violate copyright, but to the trained eye...).

And you've got to appreciate the final exchange between Luthor and Superman. Having heard Lex brag about his owning the tallest tower in the city by saying "I like the feeling of people having to look up to see me," Superman's kiss-off line to Lex before he flies up, up, and away is "If you ever need to find me, all you have to do is look up." There! That's the basis of the Superman/Luthor hatred, not Lex stealing Clark's girl or whatever.
 

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