World X-MEN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[JLBats]

By the way, Zev, I finally saw the issue of 'Astonishing X-Men' from which that panel of Wolverine cutting paper dolls and blithering like a small English child came from.

I thought that was a homemade comic strip or something you made or found online. Apparently Joss Whedon has continued to ruin his own title. Such a shame, since his first story arc was pretty good. The story arc 'Danger' was crap for reasons I probably explained already, and this latest one is crap because it's further evidence of Whedon embracing the drastic retcons and contemporary alterations forced upon the X-Men mythos during Grant Morrison's reign of terror, despite what I heard about Whedon hating the Emma/Cyclops romance.
Cassandra freaking Nova. Why couldn't he just let her slip away into obscurity? Why couldn't he just let us forget what an egotistical ass Morrison was instead of rubbing it in our faces with a severe focus Emma and Cyclops and bringing Xavier's long-long evil twin back to the X-Mansion? Wait, I know why he brought Nova back... it's so she could incapacitate the X-Men so Joss can reclaim the glory of making a young woman the star of the show. Let's just put the Beast and Wolverine and the now useless leader of the X-Men out of commission so Kitty Pryde can strike Wolverine's classic pose from the Dark Phoenix Saga's Hellfire Club battle royale and then save all their asses, yet again. Oh yes, and now Danger, a hideously uninspired rip-off of an already bad plot from the ass-end of 'Operation: Zero Tolerance', is back. If it weren't for 'Firefly' and the movie it spawned, I'd classify him as a world-class screw-up. He gleefully and willfully made 'Buffy' jump the shark, big-time, his only remaining contributions to the X-Men movie were two really stupid lines, and now this.

To be fair, Joss Whedon was not responsible for Buffy jumping the shark. Look at the best seasons. The early ones. When Joss was heavily involved in the show. In later seasons, when it jumped the shark, the rare good episodes were the ones written by Joss himself. I find that very telling.

And I'm actually enjoying the current Astonishing X-Men arc. What I like about Joss' run is that he does exactly what the essay in your sig suggests he should do... he's altering the window dressing instead of demolishing the house, and he's doing a very good job of it. You can criticise him for embracing the changes Morrison made, but he's at least doing a decent job of it. For me, more retcons are hardly the solution.

 

[Herr Logan]

Hey guys, I was thinking some more about my idea for a Wolverine Solo movie. I'll just post the first half of it, because I don't want to annoy you guys with a gigantic post, I'll post the rest of it in a little while. Tell me what you think of the beggining.

I would, as stated before, have it start with a dream sequence. Wolverine is looking through a fogged window, he can't make out what's going on outside the window very well, and he desperatley wants to, but he's afraid to break the glass because he might loose what he's viewing, and what he's viewing is a memory. Or memories.

He sees himself, as a child playing and laughing with a young red haired girl and a rugged looking boy, the faces of both blurred. The memory would flash through random happy secenes from Origin. Rose reading to him in bed, jumping into his father's arms ect. Then the dream would darken, the window becomes cold, and frost creeps along the glass, it cuts to his mother screaming at him shouting "ANIMAL!" at the top of her lungs, bodies are in the backround, but Logan can't make them out, he sees the child version of himself crying piteously on the ground. Wolverine then jerks awake, looking around to see his sheets ripped, his claws extened. Looking at the clock he sees it's 4:AM, he quickly dresses and rushes outside.

He's stalking the rouge bear like in the beggining of the Claremont/Millar mini series, and as he walks through the Canadian Wilderness he spots an old abandoned Cabin. His thoughts flash back to a different Cabin, and he see's himself cradling the body of Silver fox and shouting and crying, it then cuts to a quick cut of a ferocious battle between himself and Sabertooth. Logan shrugs off the memory and continues on.

I'd have a quick five to ten minute secene here of Wolverine stalking and traking the Bear, to display his animalistic side and animalistic senses. This would show the audience, much more then the movies ever did, the wild side of Wolverine. After finding and killing the bear, we would get a quick shot of Wolverine's face, and we would see him looking at the dead animal with pity, and even a bit or remorse. It would cut to a bar, and he would find the hunter who shot the poisioned arrow into the bear, Causing it to run rampant and kill innocents. Wolverine would explain what the hunter had inadvertantly done, and tells him he can come quietly or get himself hurt. The hunter turns and smashes a mug into his face, and Wolverine smiles to himself saying, "bub, I hoped you'd do something like that."

It would then Cut back to an apartment, and Wolverine would be mulling about, when a voice chimes into his head, professor X. They would casually talk for a bit, prof. X asking him why Wolverine seemed so please, with Wolverine responding that he had to kill a bear. the Prof. would ask if this is what made him happy, with a somewhat dissapointed tone, and Wolverine would quickly reply that that didn't make him happy, but beating the snot out of the bastard that turned the animal into a savage killer did. This would display another important aspect of Wolverine's Character, that he doesn't hunt and kill animals for enjoyment, he respects life. Eventually the Prof. would tell Wolverine that the reason he contacted him was because a large amount of his mail had been returned. When Wolverine asks from who, the Professor replies, "a woman named Mariko," A dark look passes over Wolverine's face and he tells the Proffessor that he may be away from the mansion longer then he expected.

Basically, the first act of this movie is all set up, but also important character development that I believe was left out in the X-men movies. Wolverine's more animalistic abilities, which really were barley touched upon, and also his compassion. We would learn that Wolverine has a connection with Animals, and we would see how tortured he is by his memories.

Sounds very well thought-out and visualized.
Question: do the scenes from 'Origin' come into play significantly later in the movie or in sequels, or are they merely cameos and atmospheric effects? That's not criticism, just a question. I could see them as just being the icing on the cake for when Wolverine thinks of himself as more of an animal than a man, and especially when Lord Shingen (cheating little punk that he is) called Wolverine an animal. The way you describe it is very cinematic and I think would definitely get the presumable affect of shocking the audience briefly and heightening the tension throughout.

I don't own, and possibly never read the full original Wolverine miniseries (I hope I haven't just destroyed my Wolverine "geek cred" right there), but I know the jist and I know the ending to it very well. I don't know if Wolverine had a telepathic talk with Professor X in the story about how he didn't enjoy killing the bear, but rather enjoyed punishing the man and respects wildlife whenever possible, or if you added that yourself. Either way, I like your choice to put that emphasis in there, because I think it's an important dimension for Wolverine. He's not an indiscriminate killer, and while there's no question he gets off on violence in general, he's got enough civility and nobility to choose his battles in such a way that his needs as a primal fighter and/or killer are satisfied by that which satisfies his needs as a superhero. A superhero is the highest moral honor a human being can achieve (or a samurai... whatever, you know?), and Wolverine is definitely a superhero, and it's important to make people remember that.

Again, very good stuff, Infinity.

I know I haven't responded to your last post yet, and I will try to very soon. I just haven't figured out what to say yet, as I'm struggling with the issue still. I appreciate your responding to my posts, however. I would like feedback from people who've read the stories in question (since they can best visualize what it could be like on the screen if done well), but I'm perfectly happy to read what you or anyone else has to say about it. Thanks again for posting.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Sounds very well thought-out and visualized.
Question: do the scenes from 'Origin' come into play significantly later in the movie or in sequels, or are they merely cameos and atmospheric effects? That's not criticism, just a question. I could see them as just being the icing on the cake for when Wolverine thinks of himself as more of an animal than a man, and especially when Lord Shingen (cheating little punk that he is) called Wolverine an animal. The way you describe it is very cinematic and I think would definitely get the presumable affect of shocking the audience briefly and heightening the tension throughout.

I don't own, and possibly never read the full original Wolverine miniseries (I hope I haven't just destroyed my Wolverine "geek cred" right there), but I know the jist and I know the ending to it very well. I don't know if Wolverine had a telepathic talk with Professor X in the story about how he didn't enjoy killing the bear, but rather enjoyed punishing the man and respects wildlife whenever possible, or if you added that yourself. Either way, I like your choice to put that emphasis in there, because I think it's an important dimension for Wolverine. He's not an indiscriminate killer, and while there's no question he gets off on violence in general, he's got enough civility and nobility to choose his battles in such a way that his needs as a primal fighter and/or killer are satisfied by that which satisfies his needs as a superhero. A superhero is the highest moral honor a human being can achieve (or a samurai... whatever, you know?), and Wolverine is definitely a superhero, and it's important to make people remember that.

Again, very good stuff, Infinity.

I know I haven't responded to your last post yet, and I will try to very soon. I just haven't figured out what to say yet, as I'm struggling with the issue still. I appreciate your responding to my posts, however. I would like feedback from people who've read the stories in question (since they can best visualize what it could be like on the screen if done well), but I'm perfectly happy to read what you or anyone else has to say about it. Thanks again for posting.

I've actually been contemplating doing 3 or 4 Wolverine movies, and having Origin be either told throughout all four as he finds out more of himself, or have it be the first Wolverine movie and have everything that happened afterwards, from the early 1900's to weapon X be told as he discovers more, and have him never fully learn what happened to him early in life, as a tragic touch. Either way, the audience would eventually figure out what the flashbacks came from, or would already know. And I'm glad you noticed the animal reference, that was what I was going for.


I did add the telepathic talk, but Wolverine does mention that he didn't enjoy killing the bear in the mini. And if you haven't read the whole story you really should pick up the graphic novel. I have issue 1,2, and 4 from my uncle (it was only after I read them until they nearly crumbled that I learned of their fairly high money value, but then I think I got more out of them reading them anyways) It's my favorite Wolverine story, classic, and it really described the character and paved the way for writers to write him for the next twenty years. It's definatley a good read.

And yeah, I really wanted to emphasize that while Wolverine is violent, he does have his nobility as you so rightly put it. One of my favorite Wolverine moments is when Wolverine proclaims he's going hunting, and Storm begins to berate him for the harming of innocent animals, to which Wolverine responds curtly that he doesn't kill the animals, only gets as close as possible to the animal to touch them without scaring them away. It's really a shame the writers now a days disregard that and write him as a brainless killer.

Thanks for the feedback Herr, and don't worry, you didn't ruin my Wolverine street cred, if anything I've ruined my x-men street cred becase I haven't gotten any of the X-men essential books yet

 

[Infinity9999x]

EDIT: Oh, and one thing I want to add, in the flashback secene with Wolverine Fighting Sabertooth I mention earlier, I want Sabertooth to mention "I always give you good birthday presents don't I boy!?"
Okay, now on with the next part of my movie.

Wolverine takes a plane to Tokyo, and as he glances out the window over the city he's met with a cascade of memories. It shows him training with an unnamed martial arts master, practicing his Japanese in a nicely furnished building, meeting a pretty young woman ect. Wolverine is visibly shaken by the sudden attack of memories, rubbing his forehead, but he shakes it off.
As he exits the plane he takes a picture out of his wallet of Mariko, and through a flashback we see how they met and their love for one another.

As he's leaving the airport, bustling through the crowds, and he suddenly stops, his head whipping around, sniffing the air. He's suddenly cautious and alert, showing the mannerisims he displayed when stalking the bear. He smells a familiar scent, a dangerous once, but he can't pinpoint it, there are too many people. Finally he turns around and makes his way forward again, albeit suspiciously.

Wolverine arrives at his friends Asano's place, and they exchange greetings, during there talks, it's known that they know eachother from their government days. Wolverine tries to call Mariko serveral times without success, before Asano finally tells him she's not going to return his calls. When Wolverine asks why, he tells him that she's married. Wolverine goes into a rage, and he quickly leaves to go to Mariko's house. At this point he still does not wear a costume, because he didn't bring his X-men outfit along, prefering to only use that when he's an X-man. Right now he's not, he's Logan.

He sneaks into Mariko's home and finds her crying outside by a large statue, when he approaches her, he finds her bruised and beaten, abused by her new husband. Wolverine learns that Mariko's father returned hom, Lord Shingin, and that he arranged a marriage. For her honor, she had to comply. She takes Wolverine inside her house, and while explaining about her family's honor, shows him the Yoshida family sword. Wolverine also notices a large Samuri suit of armor, and sees that the Yoshida family colors are dark brown and a autumn brown yellow. (I picked this idea up from you Herr)

Mariko's husband enters and Wolverine nearly attacks him, but Mariko stops him. Wolverine is angry and distraught, and quickly prepares to leave, but as he does he is attacked by small throwing knives, laced with poision. He didn't notice the attack because he was too preoccupied with his emotions. He wakes up and is confronted by Shingin, who challenges him to a dual with Boken, wooden practice swords, telling Wolverine, "he is not worthy of a true blade"

Wolverine is still groggy from the posion, and Shingin takes it to him hard, hitting him in the nerve endings and pressure points. Wolverine pops his claws, and Mariko gasps, thinking Wolverine is an animal, because she did not understand that Shingin was trying to kill Wolverine with his blows. Wolverine is still bested, and Shingin calls Wolverine an animal, asking Mariko if "this animal is worthy of you" to which she responds "no"

Wolverine is thrown out onto the street, beaten and weak, not even able to stand, and dishonored. A gang approaches him, Wolverine tries to tell them that he wants no troubble, but the gang won't listen. Before they can do any harm however, they are taken by surprise by an unseen foe. (NOT Yukio as in the comic) Wolverine passes out, and awakens in a small apartment, being tended to by a woman.

Wolverine learns the woman's name is Yukio, but before they can talk more, the Hand, a group of nija assains attack, presumably going after Yukio. Wolverine kills the whole group, and he and Yukio leave to another part of town. There he learns that Yukio was an assasin for a crime lord, but she was forced to work for him and did not want to. The Hand were sent for her, and the crimelord was trying to kill her. Yukio tells Wolverine the only way she will be free is if the crimelord is killed, Wolverine offers her another option. Telling her that he'll offer the crimelord an option he can't refurse. During this, Yukio makes sexual advances towards Wolverine, which he refuses, still suffering his hurt from Mariko.

After this, we cut to Shingin sitting in his office. A cloaked individual enters, looking angry. The indvidual removes the hat they're wearing and we see it's Yukio. We learn that Yukio works for Shingin, and the crime lord that supposedly controls her is really one Shingin wants to eliminate. Yukio saved Wolverine because Shingin wants Wolverine to take out the crime lord, because he's extremely well protected. After he does that, he wants Yukio to kill Wolverine.

Yukio and Wolverine both sneak into the crimelords house, and low and behold, who is meeting there with him but Markio and her husband! They are all watching an ancient play, and as the play progesses, Wolverine notices that one of the actors has a real blade! As he jumpes towards Mariko and her husband, Wolverin flys through the air and kills the assasin. He then leaps on stage to protect Mariko. During the fight, Yukio finds and kills the crimelord that was the target as he tries to flee. As Wolverine battles the assasins on stage, one strikes a good blow with his sword. Wolverine flies into an animalistic rage, and here I would really want to show him go nuts. He would loose controll, snarling, blood everywhere. Though, he would still fight with skill, just with an amazing ferocity. When he finishes, he turns to see Mariko, staring at him in horror. As she leaves, Wolverine bows his head, knowing that he has most likely lost his love.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Yukio and Wolverine leave together, and though Yukio knows she needs to kill Wolverine, she can't bring herself too. She's fallen in love with him, and Wolverine, now distraught over loosing Mariko, returns her affections...
now, since I haven't read the TPB of this series in a while, I can't quite remember the specifics of ish 4 of this mini, but I do know, for some reason or other, Yukio ends up sneaking into Wolverine's apartment, and Asano enters. Yukio is startled and ends up killing Asano, and Wolverine obviously can't be with her after that.

Wolverine can't forgive Yukio, and she leaves, heartbroken and angry. Wolverine then proceeds to dismantle Shingin's empire. Over the course of the next two months, he attacks many houses and relay points of Shingin's crime lord empire, effectivley crippling the crime lord. We would see this in a series of brief secenes giving us the feeling that much time has passed. Also, as he's crippling Shingin's empire, he dons a costume, one that looks quite simmilar to a traditional samuri suit of armor, and one that is colored brown and yellow. He would make it himself, so I would want it too look homemade, yet still very cool and definatley Wolverine like. After this we go to Shingin, standing on his balcony looking very aggrivated. He asks his attendant, "Is the Gaijin dead yet?" He replys by saying ten of the most accomplish members of the hand were sent out, Wolverine is as good as dead. Moments later another attendant comes to Shingin, carrying a box. Shingin opens the box to see ten nija masks that the hand wear, and a note reading *Tonight* Shingin crumples the note, and tells his attendants to leave if they wish to live. When they ask why he is not, he tells them, "it's a matter of honor."

As this happens, Yukio tries to enter Shingin's house to kill him, she's angry at him, and she hates him, because she lost Wolverine. Shingin stops her and is beating her when Mariko runs up to him trying to stop her. Shingin is about to respond angrily when he gets a desperate call from his hand radio. When he picks it up to respond no one answers. Shingin's eyes narrow, he says, "He's here."

Marikos husband tries to run off with her, telling Shingin he's a fool and he's going to his death. He's stopped by Wolverine, but he puts a gun to Mariko's head. Wolverine slowly walks out under the orders of Marikos husband, and he shoots Wolverine. Yukio then kills him with her throwing knives. Wolverine is hurt but he heals from it quickly, Yukio asks to stay and fight with him but he won't let her, she knows that he will never forgive her because of Asano. Wolverine then confronts Shingin, who had gone into the next room and drawn the Yoshida family sword. Wolverine asks, "Shigin! Am I worthy now?" to which the crime lord replies, "that, Gaijun, is yet to be seen!"

And the two engage in a ferocious battle of abilty and skill. I woudl really want to demonstrate Wolverine's abilty with this fight, showing the audience that he was not simply a brawler with claws, but a trained fighter. The battle would be intense, ending with Wolverine grabbing the front end of shingin's coat, it would cut to his face, and we would hear the "Snickt" sound. Then we would see Shingin's body fall to the ground.

Mariko would enter, looking to her father's body to Wolverine. Wolverine would tell her that her honor dictates her to be his sworn enemy, since he killed her father. Mariko slowly picks up the sword, her hand trembling, and would explain that her father held no honor, having disgraced the Yoshida family name ect. ect. (basically what she says in the comics) they would then embrace.

At this Point everyone would think everything's happy. It cuts to a small house out in the country, Wolverine walks in carrying some logs, saying "Mariko! I brought in some more wood for the fire." He glances at the kitchen table and see's a birthday cake sitting there for him, with a small card that proclaims HAPPY BIRTHDAY! On the front. Wolverine calls Mariko's name again. There is no response, Wolverine freezes, he sniffs the air, and immediatley he knows there is something wrong. He sprints to Mariko's bedroom, and finds the sheets torn and bloody, he then slowly walks around the bed, trembling. The camera would be angled behind Mariko's body, looking up at Wolverine, so the audience doesn't really see what a horrible mutalation it is, but we get the idea. Wolverine yells out in anguish, and falls to his knees, cradling Marikos body. After a moment Wolverine would notice a small note, written in blood on the bedside table. Inside it would read:

You can never hide from me boy, I always find you, especially on your birthday. I hope you like your present.

You can guess what the next movie would be about.

And sorry for the two long posts, but I'm going to my grandparents tommarow, so I wanted to get it all out there, since I don't know how often I'll be able to use a computer.

 

[Herr Logan]

To be fair, Joss Whedon was not responsible for Buffy jumping the shark. Look at the best seasons. The early ones. When Joss was heavily involved in the show. In later seasons, when it jumped the shark, the rare good episodes were the ones written by Joss himself. I find that very telling.

And I'm actually enjoying the current Astonishing X-Men arc. What I like about Joss' run is that he does exactly what the essay in your sig suggests he should do... he's altering the window dressing instead of demolishing the house, and he's doing a very good job of it. You can criticise him for embracing the changes Morrison made, but he's at least doing a decent job of it. For me, more retcons are hardly the solution.

I insist that Joss Whedon was responsible for 'Buffy' jumping the shark. I once thought that maybe he no longer had much control over it or something, but on one of the 6th season DVDs (I watched every single one of them through Netflix), there's a public panel with Joss, Marti Noxon, some other crew members and several cast members, and whether or not Joss was as deeply involved as he was in previous seasons or not, he presented himself as all too happy to bring his fans a darker, more "edgy" era of Buffy. I have a hard time believing that he would involve himself in a dog and pony show like that and claim credit for even approving the 6th and 7th seasons if it was all a farce. He didn't need to suck up to UPN, since that network was lucky to even have him on there. Joss claimed the credit, he gets the criticism.

It's sort of like how I thought that when the channel Spike (the first network for men, dontcha know!) was first broadcast and had "new," more "mature" episodes of 'Ren and Stimpy' that were far more disgusting and much less intelligent than the episodes that ran on Nickelodeon back in the day, I assumed it was new people bastardizing the property of a genius who'd been fired from his own show years ago. Nope, turns out John Kricfalusi was back in business, running the show and once against doing the voice of Ren, and from his commentaries on the DVDs of the early episodes (some of which I own), I know that the extra-smutty, extra-scatalogical crappy episodes were what he was going for all along, but was only prevented from doing so by the "strict" censorship of Nickelodeon. Another example of me giving the creator too much credit and assuming someone else did the bastardizing.

Frank Miller is another example of a creator who turned into a shell of his former self and shat on his own work.


Anyway, like I said, no matter how badly Joss screwed up in the past or will in the future, he'll always be near the top of my list of best fiction creators ever, if only for 'Firefly.'

 

[Herr Logan]

Good stuff, Infinity.

There's no shame in being young and broke and without ownership of the Essential X-Men. Worst comes to worst, you can still find a Barnes and Noble or Border's or other big, honkin' bookstore, grab some o' them graphic novels and read 'em there. Many of those stores have comfy chairs and everything.


For a moment, I was afraid that Wolverine wouldn't wear a costume for the rest of the movie. He did actually have that costume before that miniseries, but I don't believe it was explained before that series that the new costume was in honor of Mariko. I also don't know if it was explained in the movie. Anyway, I'm okay with how you handled it. As long as he wears his original costume (or permutation thereof, such as how I used the exact same design but with orange and black instead of yellow and blue in my concept).

I'm not sure how I feel about Sabretooth being the one to kill Mariko, or to have them almost live happily ever after, but I understand why you did it. I don't know how exactly I'd make it work in movies the way it did in the comics (not with her dying, but with them not being able to marry because she is obligated to undo what Mastermind did to her family structure first) without getting into Madylene Pryor and taking a good chunk of time. I do like the story where the X-Men come for the wedding and Viper and the Silver Samurai interrupt. Hell, I can see putting that in somewhere and figuring out a new reason for Mariko not being able to marry (maybe someone crashes the wedding and demands that Mariko make good on her father's contracts or whatever, and she has to postpone indefinitely, without the cold cruelty of when Mastermind hypnotised her, and Wolverine understands, begrudgingly).

In addition to being a such good friend and always remembering and celebrating Wolverine's birthday, Sabretooth also swore that Wolverine could never take a bride without killing her. He even tried to kill Viper, who Wolverine didn't even want to marry (but had to, of course... again with the giri). Given that, it does seem incongruous that Sabretooth didn't show up for Mariko and Logan's wedding, but I think he hadn't been created yet in real life.

Anyway, good stuff. Have a good time at your grandparents' place.

 

[kame-sennin]

Hey, my criticisms of others are worthless if people don't know that I'm more dedicated to the truth and to my principles than I am to my own ego. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I know I'm not completely wrong in what I wrote before, but if my off-the-cuff idea for a midly amusing four seconds of screentime carries the risk of alienating or insulting a true fan out of confusion, it's just not worth it.
Thanks for keeping me on my toes. So few people are up to doing it right.

Cool.

Thanks.

I guess the more I think about it, the more I am visualizing Angel as more like Wolverine than he was originally portrayed. Not in his mannerisms, speech patterns or personal history, of course (that would be a trashy, unforgivably unfaithful thing to do, even if it was just a little bit), but in terms of him being more of an angry, arrogant, unhappy person who's somewhat envious of the relative normalcy of his teammates and the cameraderie that comes easier between them. He was always very into Jean, and it's been far more of a real issue in the comics between he, Jean and Cyclops than it was with Wolverine, so making that more of a focus isn't embellishing at all. Warren and Jean had a chance. Wolverine and Jean didn't, unless maybe Cyclops had died while she was Phoenix, maybe, which obviously didn't happen.
Anyway, some part of me recognizes the need for some of Wolverine's very basic qualities, since I honestly think it would be a very bold move to make an X-Man movie that didn't include Wolverine at all. Hell, no producer would even consider that, really, to be realistic about it. I don't care, though. I said at the top of this and every other Safe Haven thread that this isn't about reality, it's about the ideal situation for real fans. Wolverine wasn't in the first several years of the X-Men, so he shouldn't be there in the first movie, period. But yeah, fans are drawn to the archetypical trouble-maker, or at least the brooding one. Cyclops is of course the ultimate brooder, but he's not allowed to be both a brooder and a "rebel", which does not mean he couldn't be the most interesting X-Man in the first movie, or possibly the whole series. It just means he can't serve as the role of "guy who keeps the leader on his toes," since he's the reluctant leader. Nobody else can fill that role as well as Angel, unless I want to write the Beast as he was written in the first three issues, since that version was quite pugnacious and surly. But I don't want to use that. I want to use the Beast as he's been written ever since X-Men #4, and that's a mostly patient, friendly, light-hearted class clown who usually doesn't act arrogant towards his own teammates despite his vast intellectual and physical superiority. The Beast will be seen as probably the most "likable" aside from Jean (who should be the most likable for the... target audience... for various reasons).
I think it can be pushed to a certain point, how much Angel is a "lone wolf" by nature. He was a superhero before the others were, and on his own, so I think that gives a fair basis for it. He'd of course be far more charming and sociable than Wolverine, as well as many other marked differences. Anyway, just wanted to confess what I think I've been going, and my reasons for why I don't think it's too far out of line, and I'm saying that if it seems I'm going too far with it, feel free to call me on it.

I don't think you've gone too far. As I sad before, I like where you're going with this. I think it's pretty believable for Angel to act the way he does given the way you set up the character.

As for the whole marketing thing. I know this is a "fantasy" thread, but I actually think it is plausible to change the cast mid franchise. It was done in the Star Trek films/series quite successfully (I think First Contact was the highest grossing ST film). Perhaps you might consider changing the beginning of Uncany 2 to show the original X-men disbanding or getting captured (if you go with the plot from Giant sized #1). That way, it will feel as though the original cast is being expanded instead of replaced. Essentially, Giant-sized X-men #1 had the right idea; introduce the new X-men as a group of rag-tag replacements collected to save the old team. Anyway, it's just a thought, but I think it would act as a 'passing of the guard'.

I think the Shi'ar thing would be especially great for a more traditional RPG game. If I was at all invested in the 'X-Men Legends' series and if there was going to be another one, I'd reccomend that as a big part of the plot.

If you want to tell us how you'd write the Shi'ar sections of the Phoenix Saga into either my game concept or your own, feel free. I've got some other stuff I'm working on at the moment, but I'm not writing it off.

I'll have to review your posts on the X-men game plots to give a more precise break down of how the Shi'ar would in a game. But, I think they would provide an intense and challanging final battle. As a child, my favorite games always took the action to a new and chaotic level for the end of the game. The Shi'ar royale guard is more than a match for the X-men, it would really put the players skills to the test (which they should have been honing in the danger room throughout the game) to face of against another, perhaps more powerful, super team. Anyway, I'll look over your game notes, and if anything comes to mind, I'll post again.

 

[kame-sennin]

This has been my basic working concept for my X-Men film franchise:

• Uncanny X-Men
  • Original X-Men vs. Magneto and Original Brotherhood
• Uncanny X-Men 2
  • New X-Men vs. Sentinels, Hellfire Club and Dark Phoenix
• Uncanny X-Men 3
  • New X-Men plus Kitty Pryde vs. Mystique's Brotherhood and possibly the Morlocks
• Uncanny X-Men 4
  • Old and New X-Men reunited plus more new X-Men vs. Mr. Sinister, the Marauders and Apocalypse

I think you have enough material here for 5 or 6 movies. However, you shouldn't take my word on that, because I tend to expand things in my mind, and when I get down to the writing, I often find I am short on material. Just take it under advisment.

Setting aside a full three-hour (or more) movie for brief introductions of all the new X-Men and giving them time to get to know each other well before Jean Grey gets her boost in power and psychic tampering by Mastermind during my truncation of the Phoenix Saga will make the emotional and dramatic impact behind the events of the story far more poignant and will not seem nearly as rushed.

I agree.

While I don't think back on either the Krakoa Island rescue or the Valhalla Mountain mission as my personal favorite X-Men stories, and I know that Count Nefaria and the Ani-Men aren't widely known as being among the top tier of X-Men villains, I think both stories could be done well, and the first story gives a good reason for Xavier collecting several new X-Men all at the same time, and allows most of the original X-Men to leave without seeming like ungrateful deserters. I could deal with having text on a screen in the very beginning of a movie explain that four of the five original X-Men left the team off-screen, but unless Xavier already had replacements at the ready, it doesn't seem very heroic for them to leave within a short span of time of each other. If they are captured, new X-Men are recruited to save them and the old X-Men leave knowing that there are still people to do their jobs, that's just better overall. Again, the source material is revered for a reason. A lot of it works for a reason. The Krakoa incident is a huge turning point in X-Men history and was indeed a good reason to bring in new people.
The story following that one is the first story where an X-Man actually died and stayed dead. True, Thunderbird had been in a total of three issues when he bought the farm, he wasn't popular and was killed out of necessity because he was too similar to Wolverine and apparently even just two supremely antisocial @ssholes on the team was too many (they already got rid of Sunfire in X-Men #94, and he was the worst of the three), but it was still a huge event.

This is what I was talking about in my last post. I think this is the best way to introduce the new cast even if it wasn't the greatest issue. You could always modify and play with the order of events to add drama. As I said be before, I recomend showing the X-men actually getting captured on Krakoa in the beginning of the film so that the audience has a sense of continuity between the films.

Personally, I'm not very fond of Krakoa, but I think it could be portrayed as very creepy and interesting, like something out of a horror movie. I have a huge, huge phobia of crabs, but I still feel compelled to use those gigantic, horrible crabs that attacked Wolverine and Banshee, because this thread is about faithfulness. It’s a very quick scene, anyway, just like in the original comic. Anyway, the whole island is alive and all its flora and fauna are psychically linked by a collective consciousness that was created during a nuclear bomb test decades ago (like Godzilla and friends), and it could be really creepy and cool.

I could be like King Kong, but without the muted racism! But seriously, a living island rendered with modern special effects could potentially be a lot cooler than the somewhat lame earth-monster that we say portrayed in the comic. I'm not suggesting that anything significant should be changed, just that the presentation of Krakoa could be incredible in a modern film, whereas the original seemed a little lack-luster.

I was planning on not having Havok and Polaris in this, but rather leave Beast with the X-Men and have him not be furry yet. This presents a problem with dispatching Krakoa the way they did in the comics, since Polaris was the crucial factor in that (she cut the gravity around Krakoa and several other X-Men blasted the island from beneath so it went all the way out of the Earth’s atmosphere). I think there’s still another way to do it, though.

The first thing to pop into my head is that they could cause an earthquake (Cyclops' optic blasts?) that causes the island to sink under the earth's crust. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, I just can't think of any right now.

The fact that some people find Count Nefaria and the Ani-Men to be corny wasn't even a factor in why I ever hesitated to use them in a movie. Never a factor. Just like I said in the Batman Safe Haven that I'd prefer not to use Clayface and Man-Bat for reasons completely unrelated to the "realism" of their powers and appearances, the same fits here; they aren't that widely considered top-tier villains. On the other hand, these two stories fit together well thematically and fit continuity perfectly. As for how the proverbial "general audience" would perceive the latter set of threats, I'll say this:
Count Nefaria's name would never change, at all. Anyone who would even consider that is a coward and shouldn't be in this thread. Don't think people would take it seriously? Go pack up your comic collection and hide it from all the “cool kids”, @sshole, your kind isn't wanted here. Here's his character history and info. His history should not be changed around too much, as in he should remain a descendant of Italian nobility no matter what, and he should probably be closely involved in international crime, illicit scientific research and development (hence, the Ani-Men) and his reasons for being a terrorist should be based on personal greed, like most classic Marvel villains. His visual appearance can be changed a bit. He doesn't need to have a monocle, necessarily. He obviously does need to have the Van Dyke facial hair. He should have some elements of one of his better known costumes, including some form of cloak or robe (not a mere trenchcoat, though... absolutely not).
If the Ani-Men seem too corny for you, again, you're in the wrong thread. There's no reason why the appearances and abilities of these characters can't be modified in such a way that they are impressive and creepy-looking in a classic sci-fi way. These are humans who committed crimes in animal-themed costumes and personas that have been turned into actual genetic hybrids with the animals they previously represented: bird, cat, ape, and frog. Nefaria was the one who had them modified, and he added a woman he turned into a dragonfly creature. Even after their transformations, they can communicate verbally with others. That's in no conceivable way "won't work." If some of them need to have voice modulators that translate their utterances into English, then so be it. Cat-Man and Ape-Man should be very easily translated visually, especially since there's already been a remake of 'The Island of Dr. Moreau' with decent creature effects that featured similar animal hybrids. Bird-Man, Frog-Man and Dragonfly may take some further consideration and deviation from their original looks in the comics, but anyone who thinks it can't be done should probably stop reading comics and watching any form of sci-fi. These are action villains. We don't need to take them seriously as "relatable" characters. They're perfect for testing out the abilities and early teamwork of the new X-Men, even though they aren't as essential to the mythos as other villains. Anyone with any imagination can see this “working” in a live action movie. You’re entitled to dislike these characters and the idea of using them in an X-Men movie, but you are not entitled to claim they “wouldn’t work” based on “realism” or how “corny” they are. Not in this thread. I apologize for belaboring this point, but I have no wish to repeat myself on this subject, so now I’ve made myself clear, and the first time someone makes an argument about the issues I specifically stated were off-limits for this thread, they will be asked to leave.

As you stated, making the ani-men into doctor Moroe type creatures would allow them to "work" in an X-men franchise just fine. However, I'm not sure they are dynamic enough as villains to be truly entertaining. Also, they stray from the core conflict of the X-men mythos; the battle for diversity, equality, ect. And I'm aware that Krakoa island presents the same problem, but including that story is only more reason to get back to traditional X-men villains as soon as possible. Basically, because of the limited time frame alloted to a single film ore even a whole franchise, I feel that you should stick to "head line" villains who have a strong connection to the X-men and the core themes.

Anyway, at the end of the Valhalla mission, Nefaria gets in a plane and tries to escape, but Thunderbird grabs onto the plane and tries to stop him. At some point, in mid-flight, the plane explodes, killing Thunderbird while Banshee is trying to catch up and save him and Xavier is in telepathic contact with him.

If you leave out Nefaria, perhaps Thunderbird could die in the first sentenel attack.

The downsides to making this drastic change that I see right off are these:
It will not allow for the humorous costume-design scene and semi-relaxed school orientation sequences I proposed a few days ago. The X-Men should not be going to Krakoa without their famous costumes, since that mission will take a big chunk of screen time.
It will either not allow for my intended ending to the Phoenix Saga movie—where Wolverine leaves without explanation after Jean dies and then comes back just as unexpectedly, now wearing the patented X-Men belt buckle and ready to carry on as a dedicated X-Man—or it will remove a lot of the dramatic impact of it. It’s okay, though, since I still have an idea for how Wolverine can show how attached to the team he’s become and how much closer he is to his teammates, including Cyclops.

What do you all think?

I think if you keep the costume selection to a brief montage, all of that can still fit.

 

[kame-sennin]

It just occured to me that Ben Browder (of Farscape and Stargate: SG-1 "fame") would make an awesome Cyclops.

Think about it. He's... well, Cyclops enough to be a straight man for the wackier and more interesting mutants ("Oh, my girlfriend eats planets! Oh, my girlfriend is a demoness clone thing of my last girlfriend! Oh, back to the planet-eating girlfriend! Oh, now my girlfriend is an amoral and somewhat reformed supervillainess!"), but snarky enough to be charming and not be a stiff fuddy-duddy.

I don't know who that guy is, so I can't comment. But you reminded me that I think Jamie Bamber from Battlestar Galactica could make a really good Cyclops. He plays the straighman really well, but he can also pull off subtle humor and a character that has a very strong moral center, perfect for Cyclops. Does anybody else watch Battlestar? I love that show.

 

[kame-sennin]

Hey guys, I was thinking some more about my idea for a Wolverine Solo movie. I'll just post the first half of it, because I don't want to annoy you guys with a gigantic post, I'll post the rest of it in a little while. Tell me what you think of the beggining.

I would, as stated before, have it start with a dream sequence. Wolverine is looking through a fogged window, he can't make out what's going on outside the window very well, and he desperatley wants to, but he's afraid to break the glass because he might loose what he's viewing, and what he's viewing is a memory. Or memories.

He sees himself, as a child playing and laughing with a young red haired girl and a rugged looking boy, the faces of both blurred. The memory would flash through random happy secenes from Origin. Rose reading to him in bed, jumping into his father's arms ect. Then the dream would darken, the window becomes cold, and frost creeps along the glass, it cuts to his mother screaming at him shouting "ANIMAL!" at the top of her lungs, bodies are in the backround, but Logan can't make them out, he sees the child version of himself crying piteously on the ground. Wolverine then jerks awake, looking around to see his sheets ripped, his claws extened. Looking at the clock he sees it's 4:AM, he quickly dresses and rushes outside.

He's stalking the rouge bear like in the beggining of the Claremont/Millar mini series, and as he walks through the Canadian Wilderness he spots an old abandoned Cabin. His thoughts flash back to a different Cabin, and he see's himself cradling the body of Silver fox and shouting and crying, it then cuts to a quick cut of a ferocious battle between himself and Sabertooth. Logan shrugs off the memory and continues on.

I'd have a quick five to ten minute secene here of Wolverine stalking and traking the Bear, to display his animalistic side and animalistic senses. This would show the audience, much more then the movies ever did, the wild side of Wolverine. After finding and killing the bear, we would get a quick shot of Wolverine's face, and we would see him looking at the dead animal with pity, and even a bit or remorse. It would cut to a bar, and he would find the hunter who shot the poisioned arrow into the bear, Causing it to run rampant and kill innocents. Wolverine would explain what the hunter had inadvertantly done, and tells him he can come quietly or get himself hurt. The hunter turns and smashes a mug into his face, and Wolverine smiles to himself saying, "bub, I hoped you'd do something like that."

It would then Cut back to an apartment, and Wolverine would be mulling about, when a voice chimes into his head, professor X. They would casually talk for a bit, prof. X asking him why Wolverine seemed so please, with Wolverine responding that he had to kill a bear. the Prof. would ask if this is what made him happy, with a somewhat dissapointed tone, and Wolverine would quickly reply that that didn't make him happy, but beating the snot out of the bastard that turned the animal into a savage killer did. This would display another important aspect of Wolverine's Character, that he doesn't hunt and kill animals for enjoyment, he respects life. Eventually the Prof. would tell Wolverine that the reason he contacted him was because a large amount of his mail had been returned. When Wolverine asks from who, the Professor replies, "a woman named Mariko," A dark look passes over Wolverine's face and he tells the Proffessor that he may be away from the mansion longer then he expected.

Basically, the first act of this movie is all set up, but also important character development that I believe was left out in the X-men movies. Wolverine's more animalistic abilities, which really were barley touched upon, and also his compassion. We would learn that Wolverine has a connection with Animals, and we would see how tortured he is by his memories.

This is good stuff. I think the Claremont/Miller mini is a good foundation for a Wolverine film, and I like how you woven other elements of his past into that story. Well done.

One of my favorite Wolverine moments is when Wolverine proclaims he's going hunting, and Storm begins to berate him for the harming of innocent animals, to which Wolverine responds curtly that he doesn't kill the animals, only gets as close as possible to the animal to touch them without scaring them away. It's really a shame the writers now a days disregard that and write him as a brainless killer.

Too true, that was one of my favorite Wolverine moments as well.

 

[Herr Logan]

I think you have enough material here for 5 or 6 movies. However, you shouldn't take my word on that, because I tend to expand things in my mind, and when I get down to the writing, I often find I am short on material. Just take it under advisment.

I agree, there should be at least 5 or 6 in the franchise, with the original team returning to mesh with the new one and have it expand further for 5 and 6.

This is what I was talking about in my last post. I think this is the best way to introduce the new cast even if it wasn't the greatest issue. You could always modify and play with the order of events to add drama. As I said be before, I recomend showing the X-men actually getting captured on Krakoa in the beginning of the film so that the audience has a sense of continuity between the films.

Yeah, I think there is a way to work it so that the original team is seen at the very beginning. I really, really like the way the story is told in Giant Size #1, how the fate of the original team isn't revealed until after the new ones are recruited and having the big reveal about how and why they were taken and why Cyclops was let go toward the end. It's very, very creepy, how Krakoa was feeding off them and tricked Cyclops into bringing him more food. I think perhaps it should work like this:

The original team load onto the jet, fly to Krakoa in search of this massively powerful mutant Cerebro is making noise about, lots of banter between Iceman and Beast (he'd still be on the team, since I don't want to deal with Havok and Polaris or Beast's switching to the Avengers, and I want the whole team together here) that make Cyclops get testy, and then about a minute after they step off the plane, there's a blinding flash of light. Screen wipe to a dark and stormy night in a small town near the Bavarian alps with a "unique" looking young man being chased down by a fearful, rioting mob. That should be all we hear of about the original team until after all the brief intro scenes are done (which shouldn't take more than 20 or 30 minutes at the very most. Cyclops will then tell the new recruits about what happened as far as he knows, and a flashback shows him waking up in a tattered uniform without his visor, on the plane with an overriding command entered into the jet to bring him back home. He's exhausted with completely dry power stores (thus no eye beams for the rest of the trip home). That basically takes care of all the backstory needed, and it brings the returning fans in gently by showing those faces first (although clearly there will be plenty of people who simply can't wait to see Wolverine, but they'll definitely get their money's worth of him once things get rolling).
Good idea.

I could be like King Kong, but without the muted racism! But seriously, a living island rendered with modern special effects could potentially be a lot cooler than the somewhat lame earth-monster that we say portrayed in the comic. I'm not suggesting that anything significant should be changed, just that the presentation of Krakoa could be incredible in a modern film, whereas the original seemed a little lack-luster.

I agree. Some people have told me I should try to bring a "Lost" type feel to it, but I know there's barely a comparison there. 'Lost' is a long-term island story with human villains and more complicated plotlines, and Krakoa is essentially something out of a one-shot sci-fi story (not to say it isn't worthy, it's just not all that comparable). I think if done right, it could be incredible, even though most people probably prefer to see the X-Men fighting back in "civilized" environs and against foes who've logged more stories in X-Men history.

The first thing to pop into my head is that they could cause an earthquake (Cyclops' optic blasts?) that causes the island to sink under the earth's crust. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, I just can't think of any right now.

That's definitely something to consider. Thanks.

As you stated, making the ani-men into doctor Moroe type creatures would allow them to "work" in an X-men franchise just fine. However, I'm not sure they are dynamic enough as villains to be truly entertaining. Also, they stray from the core conflict of the X-men mythos; the battle for diversity, equality, ect. And I'm aware that Krakoa island presents the same problem, but including that story is only more reason to get back to traditional X-men villains as soon as possible. Basically, because of the limited time frame alloted to a single film ore even a whole franchise, I feel that you should stick to "head line" villains who have a strong connection to the X-men and the core themes.


If you leave out Nefaria, perhaps Thunderbird could die in the first sentenel attack.

You have a good point. On the one hand, the action would be amazing. On the other hand, these aren't the best characters we could use.
The thing about leaving out Nefaria in liue of the Sentinels is, I really wanted the first battle of the Phoenix movie to feature the Sentinels and not have it be a repeat fight. Also, Nefaria could also tie into the Sentinel plotline in some way. Perhaps his seige on Valhalla Mountain could actually be for the purpose of gaining control of the Sentinels, or maybe he could have been a contributor to the Sentinel-building process. I'm planning on having Sebastian Shaw be a major R & D backer for the Sentinels, so this could be a way to tie the second and third movies together more tightly. Perhaps a Sentinel or two could actually show up (responding to Nefaria's summons or trying to stop him from what he's doing) and get destroyed by the X-Men, with them not knowing what it actually is yet. A tease, I know, but again, the viewers will get their money's worth, of Sentinels and all else.

I'll have to give it more thought. You've got a point, that's for sure. I just have to give it more time, but I'm open to more suggestions and appreciate your feedback very much.

I'm not sure who else to put in there as a main villain, and I wanted the battle royale with the Sentinels to be in Movie 3.

I think if you keep the costume selection to a brief montage, all of that can still fit.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can. I know Wolverine may be comfortable making jokes during that kind of crisis, but the others would not be, and it wouldn't make sense for the Professor to allow such a process when they're to leave for Krakoa so soon for the reasons they're going.
I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I figured the quick way to give them their individual costumes so soon is to have the Professor ask each of them (that need a new costume, anyway) to visualize it, and he'll transmit their mental image to Cerebro and get the clothing machines to work before they're even home. This would be explained later on, rather than have him say every time, "Visualize your ideal costume." I hate to let that other scene go, but I just know it wouldn't fit with the urgency of the Giant-Size #1 story.

I don't know who that guy is, so I can't comment. But you reminded me that I think Jamie Bamber from Battlestar Galactica could make a really good Cyclops. He plays the straighman really well, but he can also pull off subtle humor and a character that has a very strong moral center, perfect for Cyclops. Does anybody else watch Battlestar? I love that show.

I've been watching it on Netflix. It just took a really dark turn at the end of the first half of Season 2, and I don't like it.

Anyway, whomever I used for Cyclops would have to be able to pass for 18 or 19 in the first movie. Yes, we're going back to high school for the origin scenes and Xavier's school is supposedly for late high school and college-age kids for the most part. It's faithful, and if done right, it would work. It wouldn't be anything like the stupid kids in Singer's X-Men movies.



Thanks for your feedback. I didn't mean to shoot any of your ideas down outright. Just voicin' my thoughts as they come to me. Feel free to throw out more ideas, because you've got a lot of them.

 

[kame-sennin]

Yeah, I think there is a way to work it so that the original team is seen at the very beginning. I really, really like the way the story is told in Giant Size #1, how the fate of the original team isn't revealed until after the new ones are recruited and having the big reveal about how and why they were taken and why Cyclops was let go toward the end. It's very, very creepy, how Krakoa was feeding off them and tricked Cyclops into bringing him more food. I think perhaps it should work like this:

The original team load onto the jet, fly to Krakoa in search of this massively powerful mutant Cerebro is making noise about, lots of banter between Iceman and Beast (he'd still be on the team, since I don't want to deal with Havok and Polaris or Beast's switching to the Avengers, and I want the whole team together here) that make Cyclops get testy, and then about a minute after they step off the plane, there's a blinding flash of light. Screen wipe to a dark and stormy night in a small town near the Bavarian alps with a "unique" looking young man being chased down by a fearful, rioting mob. That should be all we hear of about the original team until after all the brief intro scenes are done (which shouldn't take more than 20 or 30 minutes at the very most. Cyclops will then tell the new recruits about what happened as far as he knows, and a flashback shows him waking up in a tattered uniform without his visor, on the plane with an overriding command entered into the jet to bring him back home. He's exhausted with completely dry power stores (thus no eye beams for the rest of the trip home). That basically takes care of all the backstory needed, and it brings the returning fans in gently by showing those faces first (although clearly there will be plenty of people who simply can't wait to see Wolverine, but they'll definitely get their money's worth of him once things get rolling).
Good idea.

This works well. I knew when I suggested showing the original team in the beginning of the film, that some of the suspense of Giant-sized would be lost. This is a good compromise that keeps the mystery without confusing the audience with a completley new team right off the bat.

You have a good point. On the one hand, the action would be amazing. On the other hand, these aren't the best characters we could use.
The thing about leaving out Nefaria in liue of the Sentinels is, I really wanted the first battle of the Phoenix movie to feature the Sentinels and not have it be a repeat fight.

I should have elaborated more. When I suggested that Thunderbird get killed by the sentinels, what I meant was that he could be killed by any threat, and that I don't think him dying in a battle with Nefaria specifically is that important. I didn't realise you had moved the sentienel battle to a later film.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can. I know Wolverine may be comfortable making jokes during that kind of crisis, but the others would not be, and it wouldn't make sense for the Professor to allow such a process when they're to leave for Krakoa so soon for the reasons they're going.
I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I figured the quick way to give them their individual costumes so soon is to have the Professor ask each of them (that need a new costume, anyway) to visualize it, and he'll transmit their mental image to Cerebro and get the clothing machines to work before they're even home. This would be explained later on, rather than have him say every time, "Visualize your ideal costume." I hate to let that other scene go, but I just know it wouldn't fit with the urgency of the Giant-Size #1 story.

That could work, it's a shame you have to lose the original scene though.

I've been watching it on Netflix. It just took a really dark turn at the end of the first half of Season 2, and I don't like it.

That's a shame. I'm not sure you're going to like 2.5 very much.

Anyway, whomever I used for Cyclops would have to be able to pass for 18 or 19 in the first movie. Yes, we're going back to high school for the origin scenes and Xavier's school is supposedly for late high school and college-age kids for the most part. It's faithful, and if done right, it would work. It wouldn't be anything like the stupid kids in Singer's X-Men movies.

Ah, I see. Then Bamber would definatley not be right for the part.

Thanks for your feedback. I didn't mean to shoot any of your ideas down outright. Just voicin' my thoughts as they come to me.

My pleasure. But I don't think you've shot down any of my ideas. The story always has to come first, so if you don't think an idea works for the film, you should feel free to say so, I certainly do. Besides, I've taken a LOT worse criticism on my own works before.

Feel free to throw out more ideas, because you've got a lot of them.

Get out of my mind!!!!!!!

 

[Infinity9999x]

Good stuff, Infinity.

There's no shame in being young and broke and without ownership of the Essential X-Men. Worst comes to worst, you can still find a Barnes and Noble or Border's or other big, honkin' bookstore, grab some o' them graphic novels and read 'em there. Many of those stores have comfy chairs and everything.


For a moment, I was afraid that Wolverine wouldn't wear a costume for the rest of the movie. He did actually have that costume before that miniseries, but I don't believe it was explained before that series that the new costume was in honor of Mariko. I also don't know if it was explained in the movie. Anyway, I'm okay with how you handled it. As long as he wears his original costume (or permutation thereof, such as how I used the exact same design but with orange and black instead of yellow and blue in my concept).

I'm not sure how I feel about Sabretooth being the one to kill Mariko, or to have them almost live happily ever after, but I understand why you did it. I don't know how exactly I'd make it work in movies the way it did in the comics (not with her dying, but with them not being able to marry because she is obligated to undo what Mastermind did to her family structure first) without getting into Madylene Pryor and taking a good chunk of time. I do like the story where the X-Men come for the wedding and Viper and the Silver Samurai interrupt. Hell, I can see putting that in somewhere and figuring out a new reason for Mariko not being able to marry (maybe someone crashes the wedding and demands that Mariko make good on her father's contracts or whatever, and she has to postpone indefinitely, without the cold cruelty of when Mastermind hypnotised her, and Wolverine understands, begrudgingly).

In addition to being a such good friend and always remembering and celebrating Wolverine's birthday, Sabretooth also swore that Wolverine could never take a bride without killing her. He even tried to kill Viper, who Wolverine didn't even want to marry (but had to, of course... again with the giri). Given that, it does seem incongruous that Sabretooth didn't show up for Mariko and Logan's wedding, but I think he hadn't been created yet in real life.

Anyway, good stuff. Have a good time at your grandparents' place.

Thanks Herr, I just got back, and I did have a good time, though I can only take so much of little six year old cusins screaming at the top of their lungs as they play risk.

Anyways, yeah the idea for the costume I picked up from you in another thread somewhere. That's why I had Wolverine take notice of the Samuri armor and notice that the Yoshida family colors were brown and yellow (and I might switch the yellow to black, just because I've never been a big yellow fan) What I liked best about your explanation was that it would give the people who are all about realisim a reason to why he dons the costume, because his costume does resemble a samuri suit of armor in many ways.

The only part I'm stuck on is what he would make his costume out of. He wouldn't be by the X-men, so he couldn't use their technology, and I don't want to use leather for obvious reasons. I would want it to definatley look like his classic brown/yellow costume, but also show the audience that he's honoring Mariko. So I'm a bit stumped on that.

And yeah I know Sabertooth killing Mariko was a new element I threw into that story, but I wanted to set up Sabertooth for the next movie, which was why I would have a nameless stranger stalking Wolverine throughout this movie. In my final version of this script I would have Wolverine always be on the edge even more because he keeps catching the hint of a scent in crowded areas and such, but he can never find the source, and when it looks like someone might kill him (like after he gets thrown out by shingin and the gang comes upon him) a nameless person would murder his attackers. I might even let the audience catch a hint of a sabertooth staring at Wolverine from out under a cowboy hat in the scene when Wolverine exits the plane.

But I also see your point. I don't know if I would say Mariko and Wolverine are married yet in my story though, they could have been just staying together. But yes, I did cut out a big chunk of story with the whole Mastermind thing, but I wanted to cut that out to set up even more animosity in the Sabertooth/Logan relationship. I wanted the next movie to focus more on Sabertooth and Weapon X then the Japan storyline.

But, one problem with killing Mariko off in this movie is timing. I don't know if it would feel too rushed or not, so I'm still toying with it.

And good point about Sabertooth vowing to kill all of Logan's brides, I forgot about that one! I could easily switch that in instead of the birthday promise, they both work pretty well.

But anyways, thanks for the feedback, and if you have any ideas on the costume problem any ideas would be great!

 

[Herr Logan]

I'll get to your last post soon, Infinity. For now, I'll just say that the Clan Yoshida colors are not brown and yellow; they are brown and tan. The tan can be a dark tan. All I know is, if you turn the tan parts black, not only will that make it look like TV!Wolverine from 'X-Men: Evolution' (which is a mark of shame as far as I'm concerned), it simply won't be the right colors. I'd use a deep orange if I were to change it at all. As far as the "realism" of the fabric goes, I wouldn't even worry about it. I'd give him a uniform made of the same stuff he'd wear in my X-Men movies, personally-- either a lightweight, short-sleeve catsuit with trunks like in the comics, or a sleek neoprene version of his tights that looks exactly the same except a little bit thicker. Neoprene is what Movie!Spider-Man wore, and it's what wetsuits are made of, mostly. It's also what Movie!Batman from 'Begins' wore, but that one was made especially bulky on purpose, and that could never, ever be a proper Wolverine costume. Point is, it shouldn't hold up production, trying to figure out how to explain "realistically" how he got a professionally made costume. What, they don't have tailors in Japan? He's not Spider-Man (he has some money saved away), so we don't need to see him sewing his own threads. There's several ways to explain it, but either way, it should come out looking exactly like in the comics, without looking cheap or thrown together. Nor should it look overly fancy, since the comics suit is not very fancy.



Okay, this is for Kame-sennin, Infinity9999x and anyone else who was interested in my X-Men movie concept conflict lately:

Kame-sennin brought up an excellent point about how Count Nefaria and the Ani-Men do not easily qualify as villains that involve the mutant/human diversity issues theme of X-Men comics. Now, that could be argued (Frog-Man still considered himself more human than Nightcrawler, even though the guy was literally mutated into a human/non-human hybrid by Nefaria's scientists), but there's no point. The way I see it, We could still bring the Sentinels into the third act. This movie would probably be longer than the rest, in which case I would actually call it 'Giant Size X-Men' (GSX, between you and me, but remember, none of my movies would ever actually have those abbreviations in the offcial titles... none of this 'X2' bull$hit). The first one would still be called 'The Uncanny X-Men' (UXM) the second one would be what I just said, and the third would be 'The Uncanny X-Men 3' (UXM3), and so on. Perhaps the second would have a subtitle ('Uncanny X-Men 2: Giant Size X-Men').

In any case, to fit in Krakoa, several 'Vignettes' stories, the Valhalla Mountain mission and a third villain plot, it would need to be pretty damn long, and it could be worth it. The Sentinels could be the third villain. Now, this could go a few different ways, a few of which are these:

1. The Sentinels are showcased and tested publicly and go berserk, drawing the X-Men straight to them and a battle royale breaks out. Jean Grey accompanies the new X-Men and becomes irradiated, either because a nuclear Sentinel power core explodes while she tries to smother it telekinetically, or because a fight breaks out or ends up at a nuclear reactor and she does the same. GSX:XM2 with her in a coma, Dr. Moira McTaggert and the Beast checking her vitals every few minutes, and the audience in frustrated suspence.
2. The X-Men fight and defeat the Sentinels, but Jean isn't there or simply doesn't get irradiated. UXM3 features another Sentinel fight or other way for Jean to get nuked and my miniature Phoenix Saga starts there, with Jean reviving and the first Kitty Pryde story playing out.
3. We actually do it like it was done in the comics and have the Sentinels grab a few X-Men (Jean, Wolverine and Banshee) and bring them to the moon where Stephen Lang is executing an insane and inexplicably hateful vendetta against mutants. If they come back through a solar storm (I wouldn't be against making an FF mention later on when attempting to discover the nature of Jean's power boost) and only Jean can stay outside the shielded shell to pilot the damaged space shuttle, it could be just like the comics. It could either be a cliffhanger at the point where she's getting nuked, or it could wrap up and leave on the cliffhanger of her in the coma like in the above option.

The disadvantage of Options 1 and 3 is that it makes the ending to UXM3 seem repetitive, as she will die at the end of the movie (don't worry, it's a clone, and the original is back in 'The Uncanny X-Men 5'). The advantage is it gives me an ending I can imagine at this juncture, and frees up UXM3 for a semi-brief "James Bond" type opening with a different villain that could be anybody, and then Jean can wake up after that action is over.

I guess I just really like the idea of the action involved in the Nefaria/Ani-Men/Valhalla story. I also like the idea of having a movie be a real 'Giant Size X-Men' movie; it's like two movies in one, basically. Hell, how long was 'Schindler's List'... oh, just 3.25 hours... well, I'll think about it.

I'm really digging the idea of the showdown with Lang and his Sentinels up on the moon base. Unfortunately, I would not feel right putting the X-Sentinels (robots that look and fight like the original X-Men) in this movie. Well... maybe. I don't know. You gotta admit it's a stretch, if this is only the second movie.

Thoughts?


​

 

[Herr Logan]

Still waiting on thoughts on 'Uncanny X-Men 2' vs. 'Giant Size X-Men.' Meanwhile...


I haven't talked too much about what transpires in what would now be UXM4. Cyclops is gone in the beginning, Storm is in charge, with Wolverine as her unofficial second-in-command. It's very possible I'll have them in a romantic/friends-with-priviledges relationship, but it won't misdirect any focus, and there wouldn't be any angst whatsoever, unlike with Scott and Jean, Kitty and Colossus (minimal angst there anyway) and later, Rogue and Gambit.

One thing I know for sure for this movie is that some of the main villains will be Mystique and her new Brotherhood of Mutants (also including a middle-aged and attractive Destiny, the an adult Pyro, Blob, Avalanche, and possibly a Spiral without a backstory). Magneto would be Mystique's idol in some ways, but not attached to her operation at first, although she hopes to make contact with the infamous fugitive and join him. There would be major differences between how Mystique handles her Brotherhood and how Magneto handled his.
Firstly, Mystique relies heavily on stealth, espionage and her high-clearance government position at DARPA as Raven Darkholme, whereas Magneto relied on raw power.
Secondly, Magneto used fear and charisma only to keep his subjects in line. Mystique uses charm, but with louts like the Blob and cold-hearted monsters like Spiral, charm doesn't cut it. She uses reason and keeps reasonably honest communications between she and her warriors. She keeps an eye on her people and tries to smooth over the rough spots, while still maintaining a strong personality and commanding presence. She's more personable, more relatable, but still scary as hell when you really see her nasty side. Magneto is awesome, but he had it easy in some ways when it came to leading, even with Quicksilver's insolence and Mastermind's impudence. He was a bit drunk on himself, Magneto was, but Mystique, being far less powerful and formidable personally, knows her limitations and does not see herself as a savior or would-be emperor. She's a freedom fighter and would prefer someone like Magneto be in charge, or someone equally as qualified, but she wouldn't take orders from someone she perceived as unworthy, and she knows she's better than most when it comes to planning and executing the kinds of operations she does. I want to make this absolutely clear: my Mystique would be the real Mystique, not some mute, naked mermaid who can inexplicably give Wolverine a proper beating. She's the ultimate femme fatale with a ruthless political agenda.

Mystique would break Fred Dukes-- aka the Blob-- out of prison, but it would not be like in the comics. It could be mentioned that the original X-Men fought the Blob and put him in prison. In the comics, the Blob was held in a regular maximum security cell, or a super-max at best, and she just blew the place up. For UXM1, I said that Unus the Untouchable and the Toad would be taken to the infamous Vault-- an ultra-max correctional facility for supervillains-- in Colorado. To be consistent, I need to have the Blob put there, since he obviously qualifies as needed the Vault to hold him. Mystique would break the Blob out personally, using spy tactics and her power of disguise. Very "Mission: Impossible"-esque.
Anyway, she's already working with Destiny, her long-time friend, lover and ally.
I don't know where Avalanche would come from (I know he's Greek, but I mean I haven't figured out a backstory for him... I should just look it up).
Spiral doesn't get a backstory, just to simplify things. She'd still be pretty nasty, and if anyone gets to be the one who doesn't say much, it's her.
Pyro is the one besides the Blob I know the most about. He was a successful novelist from Australia. I'd have him be somehow outed as a mutant at the beginning of the movie or have it told as happening previously, and have his career go down the toilet because of it, with him being labeled "unsellable" by all previously interested publishers, just as he's finished what he considers his best work. He'll join the Brotherhood because he believes in it as well as for the payment. I want it emphasized that Pyro is not a heartless killer and he is not an actual pyromaniac. He loves to watch flames dance, but then again, so do I, and I don't set fires maliciously or irresponsibly. He's not like Firefly from Batman comics. Anyway, I'd have him wear a red and black Nomex armor suit with red goggles and probably wear a military-grade flamethrower with fuel tank. I could be persuaded to give him a more faithful appearance, though. Either way, he's not using a damn lighter. I'd have him carry a lighter for smoking and have him play with it during "down time" or at briefings, but again, he's not a pyromaniac. He's actually pretty normal, and possibly the most sympathetic member of Brotherhood II.
I am considering using Toad again here. If so, Spiral is out. Let me know what you think.

Mystique's big sceme is to assassinate Senator Robert Kelly, who is running for president. She will not succeed. No one kills Kelly in my movies. The X-Men, including Kitty Pryde, stop them when Kelly campaigns on the lawn in Washington, DC.



Whoops, there's more to say, but I gotta run for nnow. More later. Thoughts now!!

 

[Infinity9999x]

Hey Herr,

I'm about dead tired, first day of football two a days started, so I had a nice fun time with 6 hours of friggin football. God, if the games weren't fun this sport would be about as enjoyable as Marine training. Anyways,

I think the fabric they used for Spider-man which you mentioned would work best for the costume Herr. And I know that most people hated the X-men Evolution cartoon, but the one thing I liked about it was Wolverine's costume. I never really watched it though. Anyways, I think I might stick to the classical design, but just go dark brown and dark tan for the colors. I could have a secene showing Wolverine go to a kind of tailor in Japan and tell him "I need a suit, something lightweight I can move easily in, and I want it to be in honor of this" then have him throw down a picture of the suit of Armor he saw at Mariko's.

Like I've said before, because of my limited knowledge of giant size X-men, I can't really help you with the ani-men Nefaria thing, but I do think you should end the movie with a cliffhanger. The pheonix saga is so big I think it needs at least a two movies, if just to set it up. And I always like little cliffhangers at the ends of the movies, it keeps the audience on their toes.

I like what you did with Mystique's brotherhood, especially Pyro, because I never knew his backstory. I think the more sympathetic angle would be a nice way to play it. Though, how sympathetic do you want to make him? Will he have troubble taking the life of others, or will he be more like one of those bad guys we feel sorry for, but know that he's a cold hearted killer too?

Also, with the plot being about Mystique trying to off Kelly, have you thought about a Days of Future Past storyline somewhere in your saga? I was just wondering because I thought it might be kind of a cool way to end a X-men movie series....of course some people might expect Wolverine to survive the Sentinal blowing away all his flesh....hell he can in the comics now

 

[Herr Logan]

Hey Herr,

I'm about dead tired, first day of football two a days started, so I had a nice fun time with 6 hours of friggin football. God, if the games weren't fun this sport would be about as enjoyable as Marine training. Anyways,

I think the fabric they used for Spider-man which you mentioned would work best for the costume Herr. And I know that most people hated the X-men Evolution cartoon, but the one thing I liked about it was Wolverine's costume. I never really watched it though. Anyways, I think I might stick to the classical design, but just go dark brown and dark tan for the colors. I could have a secene showing Wolverine go to a kind of tailor in Japan and tell him "I need a suit, something lightweight I can move easily in, and I want it to be in honor of this" then have him throw down a picture of the suit of Armor he saw at Mariko's.

That sounds great.

Good luck with the football, Infinity.

Like I've said before, because of my limited knowledge of giant size X-men, I can't really help you with the ani-men Nefaria thing, but I do think you should end the movie with a cliffhanger. The pheonix saga is so big I think it needs at least a two movies, if just to set it up. And I always like little cliffhangers at the ends of the movies, it keeps the audience on their toes.

Count Nefaria and the Ani-Men weren't actually in 'Giant Size X-Men #1,' but rather the issues of X-Men directly afterward, meaning that Thunderbird lasted for three issues and two missions.

Count Nefaria is a nobleman involved in an international, European-based crime syndicate called the Maggia. I think Marvel called it this to avoid using the word Mafia, although they still did that occasionally. He's had superpowers at various times in his life, and I haven't decided if I want to give him those for the movie, since he isn't needed for a physical fight. The Ani-Men were robbers who used technology to boost their abilities and disguise them as different animals (Cat-Man, Bird-Man, Ape-Man, Frog-Man), and Nefaria had them mutated into hybrids of those animals, adding another member, Dragonfly. They took over the NORAD (military air command) headquarters at Valhalla Mountain (I forget where that is, but I think it's in the U.S.) and the X-Men went and stopped them. Thunderbird grabbed Nefaria's getaway plane and blew up in the sky with it. That's the very abreviated version.

I like what you did with Mystique's brotherhood, especially Pyro, because I never knew his backstory. I think the more sympathetic angle would be a nice way to play it. Though, how sympathetic do you want to make him? Will he have troubble taking the life of others, or will he be more like one of those bad guys we feel sorry for, but know that he's a cold hearted killer too?

Pyro isn't a cold-blooded killer. He was a travelling journalist who then wrote a series of torrid Gothic romance novels that were ignored or panned by critics in Australia but popular in the U.S. I may have Kitty Pryde explain this to the other X-Men when they find out some of the new Brotherhood roster's real names. She'll say it sheepishly, as it's embarrassing to practically admit to the likes of Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Colossus that you own those novels, I would think.
Anyway, Pyro fights for something he believes, but he's not heartless. He isn't sworn against killing like the X-Men are, and he does try to have a little fun when he's out on a mission, but he's not a cackling fiend who loves to hurt people. He's arrogant and angry, but not beyond reason, but the X-Men can't reason with him, since he's loyal to Mystique. He's a decent soldier, and yes, he counts as a villain, but he's got his wagon hitched to the wrong horse, so the audience can sympathize with him, but it's hard to root for a guy who's got a dozen fire creatures wreaking havoc on politicians, police, agents and our heroes.

Also, with the plot being about Mystique trying to off Kelly, have you thought about a Days of Future Past storyline somewhere in your saga? I was just wondering because I thought it might be kind of a cool way to end a X-men movie series....of course some people might expect Wolverine to survive the Sentinal blowing away all his flesh....hell he can in the comics now

Sorry, no 'Days of Future Past' in my movie series. Same events in the present, without help from Rachel Grey or "Kate" Pride. It's a valid question and suggestion, though, and certainly it should be mentioned that things could go out of control if the Sentinels are allowed to mass-produce and police the country or world.


I'm feeling quite sick right now, so I can't get into this in depth yet, but here's my dillemma for the other part of UXM4:

Bring back Magneto, or have Storm get a "biker chic" makeover and face off with the Morlocks.
Keep in mind, the Morlocks will be under seige in UMX5 (featuring Mr. Sinister, the Mauraders-- including Sabretooth--, the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse, and Apocalypse himself), so they could wait until then altogether, but it might be nice to set them up first. Depends on how badly we want Magneto back, I guess. I don't like the Morlock's that much, but I do like Storm's personality change storyline, and that's important to it. Thoughts?

 

[Herr Logan]

I forgot to mention that Rogue is one of the Brotherhood of Mutants under Mystique in UXM4 recently! How stupid of me! That's one of the main subplots in the movie!
She will have the same powers in the movie as she had in the comics, and through the same exact means (although we'll only hear about Carol Danvers, not see the life-theft take place). By the end of the movie, she's so messed up that she goes to Xavier for help. She will not become an X-Man right away, but she won't be a prisoner, either. Everyone is wary of her, but Xavier insists she be treated respectfully. In UXM5, she's an X-Man, wearing her skintight green and yellow bodysuit with brown bomber X-jacket. Yee haw!


There should probably be Sentinels in UXM4 as well as GSXM2. I want it known that Sebastian Shaw is one of the people bankrolling the Sentinels. Sounds messed up, since Shaw himself and several other members of the Inner Circle of the Hellfire Club are mutants, right? Well, they've got devices that fool Sentinels' scanners and make them appear human. After the X-Men trash the Hellfire Club in UXM3, I want Sebastian Shaw to be speaking with Robert Kelly and mentioning his fears for the rest of the world. After Jean goes into all-out Dark Phoenix mode, she freaks out and kills hundreds of people in New York City just to show that she can, bringing down lots and lots of heat on mutants, making the Mutant Registration Act a very attractive option to the public. Hell, even I would vote for it, honestly. No, I don't trust the government, but I damn sure don't want my loved ones getting blown up by a supervillain who can't be controlled. Anyway, I'm saying that I can give Kelly relatability because I understand and partially agree with his favorite argument. Again, he's not so much a bigot as a realist who fell on one side of the fence instead of the other. Wolverine himself would agree with Kelly if he actually lived in fear, but since he doesn't, even the "realist" of the X-Men won't concede that Kelly is right to be afraid of alll mutants.

The Hellfire Club has both devices to shield their mutancy from government scanners (they commissioned the creation of the scanners, after all, without Stephen Lang or Bolivar Trask knowing they themselves were mutants) and also to negate the on/off type mutant powers. They couldn't make the Beast or Wolverine, but Nightcrawler, Cyclops, Colossus and Storm all have psionic-based powers that use exotic energy to work, so they are held captive quite easily once defeated.

I was thinking of having Mystique use the same power-negating restraints on Nightcrawler after capturing him. She may not capture him if I use the Morlock story in UXM4, but if so, we would definitely get into his relation to Mystique. She'd try to get him to join them, since then she could protect him. Rogue would begin sympathizing with Nightcrawler and learn from him that Xavier (whom they already know founded and manages the X-Men) is a good man, a teacher and a specialist with mutant powers. If she needed help, he wouldn't spurn her. Niightcrawler would basically be her "sponsor" for the X-Men, but only after she spontaneously shows up at the end of the movie, since he doesn't expect her to actually cross over, and neither did anyone else.
They'd be on different teams in UXM5, with Nightcrawler on Gold and Rogue on Blue.

These are the team breakdowns for the Blue and Gold teams in 'Uncanny X-Men 5':

Blue:
Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Rogue, Gambit, Psylocke

Gold:
Storm, Phoenix, Angel, Iceman, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat

I wanted Shadowcat to take Jubilee's place, but I realized there were too many stealthy people on Cyclops' team and the Gold team should have a computer scientist, since Blue has Beast already. I did consider having Team Blue be mostly stealth (and new recruits) and Team Gold be mostly raw power, but the computer thing pushed me the other way. I could still change my mind.
Actually, maybe it should be the other way, since there's too few experienced members on the Blue Team.



Thoughts on any of that?

 

[Herr Logan]

I've got two different scenes for Wolverine at the end of 'Uncanny X-Men 3' after Phoenix kills herself, as alternatives to my original scene where he had taken off without word, came back and woke Nightcrawler up for a sparring match, and gave Storm a pleasant greeting and invitation into the match to close out the movie, reaffirming his allegiance to the X-Men whereas it was somewhat in question when he left.

1.

Cyclops is going to leave at the end no matter what. He says he may or may not come back to stay, but he needs some time alone, out in the world, to get his head together and figure out what kind of a man he is without Jean.

Cyclops gets in his car after saying his goodbyes, and Wolverine wasn't there in the house a minute ago. He shows up before Cyclops takes off, handing him some money.

Cyclops asks, "What's this?"

Wolverine says it's a small fraction of the total amount of beer money Nightcrawler owes him from his sparring losses, and that he wants Cyclops to pick up and bring back its worth in beer when he returns.

Cyclops reiterates that he may not come back.

Wolverine says something along the lines of, "Bull. You're the captain o' this team. Period. I just broke you in, an' I don't like my hard work goin' to waste. 'Sides, she ain't what made you the royal pain-in-the-balls tight-ass you are, Cyke. You are. I can't stand it, but they need it, so you're comin' back."

Cyclops smiles and says maybe he'll be back eventually. Maybe he'll feel up to it again some day.

Wolverine says, "Uh huh. Remember, get whatever German beer's available, but just one for every five Molson's. Have a good vacation, soldier-boy."

"Thanks, runt." And Cyclops leaves.

This scene reaffirms that Wolverine is indeed a team player and is not here just for Jean, and it shows his respect for Cyclops as a leader and a man.



2.

Wolverine gives some kind of cryptic clue that he's leaving for good (no, I haven't come up with what it is yet). He gets on his Harley Davidson and prepares to ride out to who knows where. Storm comes out and stops him, demanding to speak with him.
Storm tells Wolverine he can't leave. Xavier has charged her with leading the X-Men in the field and she doesn't know if she can handle it without help, and Wolverine is the most experienced member of the team in pretty much every way. In fact, he should probably be the team leader, she says

Wolverine says "No way," actually only referring to he himself leading the team. Furthermore, she can handle it and will be just fine.

Storm asks why it's so easy for Wolverine to walk away from them, after what they've been through. Hasn't he found anything there worth having besides Jean?

Wolverine asks what the hell she's carrying on about. He's gonna ride around for a couple of hours, wash his brain in the wind a spell, then pick up some beer with money he won off of Nightcrawler in poker. Then he's coming back to watch another one of those dumb-ass Star Wars marathons that Kurt and Peter have every now and again.

Storm looks sheepish and says, "Oh. Okay, then. Have a nice ride."

"This is worse'n the time you thought I killed deer for sport, darlin'. Gotta sharpen you up some. You're our 'fearless leader' now."

"I don't know if I am right for this," she says.

"Sure ya are. An' I'll keep you on your toes, darlin', don't you worry."

"And I will keep you in your place, don't you worry."

"No doubt," Wolverine says. "How about a race to the half-way point to town?"

"Challenge accepted."

He steals a kiss and slaps her on the ass, quickly getting back into riding position and riding off before Storm can react.

Storm summons a wind and races through the air to catch up to Wolverine.

Photo flash, fading to the class picture of the new team in costume, plus Cyclops and Jean. Theme music. 'Nuff said.



What do you think? I think the second might have been a waste of time to even suggest, actually.

 

[kame-sennin]

Okay, this is for Kame-sennin, Infinity9999x and anyone else who was interested in my X-Men movie concept conflict lately:

Kame-sennin brought up an excellent point about how Count Nefaria and the Ani-Men do not easily qualify as villains that involve the mutant/human diversity issues theme of X-Men comics. Now, that could be argued (Frog-Man still considered himself more human than Nightcrawler, even though the guy was literally mutated into a human/non-human hybrid by Nefaria's scientists), but there's no point. The way I see it, We could still bring the Sentinels into the third act. This movie would probably be longer than the rest, in which case I would actually call it 'Giant Size X-Men' (GSX, between you and me, but remember, none of my movies would ever actually have those abbreviations in the offcial titles... none of this 'X2' bull$hit). The first one would still be called 'The Uncanny X-Men' (UXM) the second one would be what I just said, and the third would be 'The Uncanny X-Men 3' (UXM3), and so on. Perhaps the second would have a subtitle ('Uncanny X-Men 2: Giant Size X-Men').

In any case, to fit in Krakoa, several 'Vignettes' stories, the Valhalla Mountain mission and a third villain plot, it would need to be pretty damn long, and it could be worth it. The Sentinels could be the third villain. Now, this could go a few different ways, a few of which are these:

1. The Sentinels are showcased and tested publicly and go berserk, drawing the X-Men straight to them and a battle royale breaks out. Jean Grey accompanies the new X-Men and becomes irradiated, either because a nuclear Sentinel power core explodes while she tries to smother it telekinetically, or because a fight breaks out or ends up at a nuclear reactor and she does the same. GSX:XM2 with her in a coma, Dr. Moira McTaggert and the Beast checking her vitals every few minutes, and the audience in frustrated suspence.
2. The X-Men fight and defeat the Sentinels, but Jean isn't there or simply doesn't get irradiated. UXM3 features another Sentinel fight or other way for Jean to get nuked and my miniature Phoenix Saga starts there, with Jean reviving and the first Kitty Pryde story playing out.
3. We actually do it like it was done in the comics and have the Sentinels grab a few X-Men (Jean, Wolverine and Banshee) and bring them to the moon where Stephen Lang is executing an insane and inexplicably hateful vendetta against mutants. If they come back through a solar storm (I wouldn't be against making an FF mention later on when attempting to discover the nature of Jean's power boost) and only Jean can stay outside the shielded shell to pilot the damaged space shuttle, it could be just like the comics. It could either be a cliffhanger at the point where she's getting nuked, or it could wrap up and leave on the cliffhanger of her in the coma like in the above option.

The disadvantage of Options 1 and 3 is that it makes the ending to UXM3 seem repetitive, as she will die at the end of the movie (don't worry, it's a clone, and the original is back in 'The Uncanny X-Men 5'). The advantage is it gives me an ending I can imagine at this juncture, and frees up UXM3 for a semi-brief "James Bond" type opening with a different villain that could be anybody, and then Jean can wake up after that action is over.

I guess I just really like the idea of the action involved in the Nefaria/Ani-Men/Valhalla story. I also like the idea of having a movie be a real 'Giant Size X-Men' movie; it's like two movies in one, basically. Hell, how long was 'Schindler's List'... oh, just 3.25 hours... well, I'll think about it.

I'm really digging the idea of the showdown with Lang and his Sentinels up on the moon base. Unfortunately, I would not feel right putting the X-Sentinels (robots that look and fight like the original X-Men) in this movie. Well... maybe. I don't know. You gotta admit it's a stretch, if this is only the second movie.

Thoughts?


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I think you should go with option one. GSXM ends with Jean saving the team from the sentinel blast. Than UXM3 kicks off the pheonix saga (which is a lot to do in one movie, but still possible), and ends with Pheonix' death. At first, I agreed that this seemed to repetitve, but if it's done properly, it will be more of a coda or refrain. It will give the two movies a bit of symetry, and the life of the Pheonix will end as explosivley as it began.

More later.

 

[Herr Logan]

I think you should go with option one. GSXM ends with Jean saving the team from the sentinel blast. Than UXM3 kicks off the pheonix saga (which is a lot to do in one movie, but still possible), and ends with Pheonix' death. At first, I agreed that this seemed to repetitve, but if it's done properly, it will be more of a coda or refrain. It will give the two movies a bit of symetry, and the life of the Pheonix will end as explosivley as it began.

More later.

Thanks for the feedback, man.

How about if I did #3 with the end being after they splash down in the river and vacate the shuttle. Jean can either be comatose then, or she can rise above the water in a new costume, saying, "I AM PHOENIX!" Fade to black.

I've been thinking of having the final battle of UMX1 take place on Asteroid M, with Angel getting kidnapped and offered a place with the Brotherhood. If this happens, then Option #3 should not occur for UMX2/GSXM, since going up into space in the latter half in both movies to free kindnapped X-Men is way too repetitive.

What do you think?

 

[Herr Logan]

So I was listenin' to my fancy voice recorder's FM radio, and I heard Nine Inch Nails' "Bite the Hand that Feeds," or whatever the actual title is. I come up with scenes a lot while listening to music, and what came to mind instantly was Mystique in UXM4 in a personal training montage, with some other Brotherhood training thrown in.

If anyone thinks it would be bad to put such a scene in my movie, speak up. I don't want to be ruled by my constant urges to set my movies to alread-recorded songs. Hell, it's taking all my restraint to keep from giving Wolverine a Thorogood's "Bad to the Bone" intro or play AC/DC's "You Shook Me All Night Long" before, during or after Jean Grey begins to ravish Cyclops in UXM3. I still might, and maybe worse. God help me!!

 

[kame-sennin]

I haven't talked too much about what transpires in what would now be UXM4. Cyclops is gone in the beginning, Storm is in charge, with Wolverine as her unofficial second-in-command. It's very possible I'll have them in a romantic/friends-with-priviledges relationship, but it won't misdirect any focus, and there wouldn't be any angst whatsoever, unlike with Scott and Jean, Kitty and Colossus (minimal angst there anyway) and later, Rogue and Gambit.

I'm usually reluctant to add more to the pile, but are you still planning on introducing the Morlocks? It'd be the perfect time to do so with Storm in charge.

One thing I know for sure for this movie is that some of the main villains will be Mystique and her new Brotherhood of Mutants (also including a middle-aged and attractive Destiny, the an adult Pyro, Blob, Avalanche, and possibly a Spiral without a backstory). Magneto would be Mystique's idol in some ways, but not attached to her operation at first, although she hopes to make contact with the infamous fugitive and join him. There would be major differences between how Mystique handles her Brotherhood and how Magneto handled his.
Firstly, Mystique relies heavily on stealth, espionage and her high-clearance government position at DARPA as Raven Darkholme, whereas Magneto relied on raw power.
Secondly, Magneto used fear and charisma only to keep his subjects in line. Mystique uses charm, but with louts like the Blob and cold-hearted monsters like Spiral, charm doesn't cut it. She uses reason and keeps reasonably honest communications between she and her warriors. She keeps an eye on her people and tries to smooth over the rough spots, while still maintaining a strong personality and commanding presence. She's more personable, more relatable, but still scary as hell when you really see her nasty side. Magneto is awesome, but he had it easy in some ways when it came to leading, even with Quicksilver's insolence and Mastermind's impudence. He was a bit drunk on himself, Magneto was, but Mystique, being far less powerful and formidable personally, knows her limitations and does not see herself as a savior or would-be emperor. She's a freedom fighter and would prefer someone like Magneto be in charge, or someone equally as qualified, but she wouldn't take orders from someone she perceived as unworthy, and she knows she's better than most when it comes to planning and executing the kinds of operations she does. I want to make this absolutely clear: my Mystique would be the real Mystique, not some mute, naked mermaid who can inexplicably give Wolverine a proper beating. She's the ultimate femme fatale with a ruthless political agenda.
Mystique would break Fred Dukes-- aka the Blob-- out of prison, but it would not be like in the comics. It could be mentioned that the original X-Men fought the Blob and put him in prison. In the comics, the Blob was held in a regular maximum security cell, or a super-max at best, and she just blew the place up. For UXM1, I said that Unus the Untouchable and the Toad would be taken to the infamous Vault-- an ultra-max correctional facility for supervillains-- in Colorado. To be consistent, I need to have the Blob put there, since he obviously qualifies as needed the Vault to hold him. Mystique would break the Blob out personally, using spy tactics and her power of disguise. Very "Mission: Impossible"-esque.
Anyway, she's already working with Destiny, her long-time friend, lover and ally.
I don't know where Avalanche would come from (I know he's Greek, but I mean I haven't figured out a backstory for him... I should just look it up).
Spiral doesn't get a backstory, just to simplify things. She'd still be pretty nasty, and if anyone gets to be the one who doesn't say much, it's her.
Pyro is the one besides the Blob I know the most about. He was a successful novelist from Australia. I'd have him be somehow outed as a mutant at the beginning of the movie or have it told as happening previously, and have his career go down the toilet because of it, with him being labeled "unsellable" by all previously interested publishers, just as he's finished what he considers his best work. He'll join the Brotherhood because he believes in it as well as for the payment. I want it emphasized that Pyro is not a heartless killer and he is not an actual pyromaniac. He loves to watch flames dance, but then again, so do I, and I don't set fires maliciously or irresponsibly. He's not like Firefly from Batman comics. Anyway, I'd have him wear a red and black Nomex armor suit with red goggles and probably wear a military-grade flamethrower with fuel tank. I could be persuaded to give him a more faithful appearance, though. Either way, he's not using a damn lighter. I'd have him carry a lighter for smoking and have him play with it during "down time" or at briefings, but again, he's not a pyromaniac. He's actually pretty normal, and possibly the most sympathetic member of Brotherhood II.
I am considering using Toad again here. If so, Spiral is out. Let me know what you think.

Sounds good so far, no fish scales and a rag tag group anti-social mutants. However, I will advise against backstories to some degree. Mystique's backstory is fine, and it would be great to show the escape of the Blob, but I think by the fourth film, that the use backstories should be trimmed down. Essentially, the audience knows they are going to get an origin story in the first film. But they tend to want to just get the story rolling in the sequels. I have noticed that a lot of your backstories have been nicely intermixed throughout the films and don't really prevent any action, but it's still food for thought.

Mystique's big sceme is to assassinate Senator Robert Kelly, who is running for president. She will not succeed. No one kills Kelly in my movies. The X-Men, including Kitty Pryde, stop them when Kelly campaigns on the lawn in Washington, DC.



Whoops, there's more to say, but I gotta run for nnow. More later. Thoughts now!!

This is fine, not much to say about it. I would like to throw in my two cents and say that I'd prefer a better looking Robert Kelly than the one they cast in the current franchise (even though he was a great actor). Isn't Kelly supposed to be somewhat of a reference to JFK or Bobby Kennedy? If so, I think it makes sense that the actor cast reflect that slightly.

 

[kame-sennin]

I'm feeling quite sick right now, so I can't get into this in depth yet, but here's my dillemma for the other part of UXM4:

Bring back Magneto, or have Storm get a "biker chic" makeover and face off with the Morlocks.
Keep in mind, the Morlocks will be under seige in UMX5 (featuring Mr. Sinister, the Mauraders-- including Sabretooth--, the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse, and Apocalypse himself), so they could wait until then altogether, but it might be nice to set them up first. Depends on how badly we want Magneto back, I guess. I don't like the Morlock's that much, but I do like Storm's personality change storyline, and that's important to it. Thoughts?

Definatley set up the Morlocks and give Storm her personality change. It's a good moment for Storm and she needs her due.

Btw, feel better