Sandman Is Not A "Villian" in SP3.. He is a Victim of the Black Suit

[Dragon]

Okay. This reminds me of the debate just before Spidey 2's release. A number of folks couldn't accept that Peter would lose his powers, while for some of us, (ahem) it was pretty obvious.

Same here. People can't handle the lameness of Sandman being Ben's killer and are going off into this tangent, now making him an innocent victim

The police wouldn't tell the Parkers that Marko was the actual killer of Ben with no evidence. They'd merely say he was an accomplice. Sandman is THE MAIN VILLAIN here. THC has said it, Raimi has said it. Like Ock(lost his wife) and even the goblin (He was trying to save his company) there will be some tragic circumstances (caring for his daughter) but anyone who thinks they're going to flip on his killing Ben is barking up the wrong tree. They don't tell stories that way in big budget Hollywood.

On the contrary- they introduced his killing Ben to make him a worse villain.

 

[Equint77]

if you think that waiting is a reality around here.. you people should have seen this place during it's early years when it was still spider-man hype.com

people judge on the stupidest things..... movie posters, rumors, script leaks, interviews.... waiting is never gonna happen here.... which is why there's 30,000 threads in this forum.

Everything gets picked apart... even when they're not even valid.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I think we need to ask ourselves one question. Is this photo a Dream or a Flashback. I found this over at Rotten Tomatoes Spider-Man 3 website. There are so many assumptions out there that people take for granted. If this photo is indeed true. I for one am going to accept the fact that he indeed is the killer or has something to do with. People are just going to have to live with it.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I think we need to ask ourselves one question. Is this photo a Dream or a Flashback. I found this over at Rotten Tomatoes Spider-Man 3 website. There are so many assumptions out there that people take for granted. If this photo is indeed true. I for one am going to accept the fact that he indeed is the killer or has something to do with. People are just going to have to live with it.

Their white light [Just like in spidey 2 When Uncle Ben is talking to Peter, before he says "I'm Spider-man No More"] So i'll guessing it's a dream sequence made up in Peter's mind by the symbiote


But I won't know for sure until I see The movie .

 

[The Shredder]

Very interesting theory.

But I have to admit, that I actually like this idea of Flint being something of the villain of the movie, but also something of a pawn in a much larger story that Peter would not be initially aware of. So basically it keeps Sandman as the sympathetic/complex villain he has been shown to be in the comics, and also adds a bit more depth than just being a superpowered thug that he could have very easily become. Awesome.

 

[Dragon]

Their white light [Just like in spidey 2 When Uncle Ben is talking to Peter, before he says "I'm Spider-man No More"] So i'll guessing it's a dream sequence made up in Peter's mind by the symbiote


But I won't know for sure until I see The movie .

The "white light" in this image is a REFLECTOR, (you can see them in the wider shots of this filming) used because they were shooting at night, and needed more light. Why the hell would they shoot this scene on a New York street, which is extremely expensive, if the were only going to make the background white? They would have shot it in the studio for much less money.

They're using the same type of reflector here:

Is this a dream sequence too?

And note, no white background in these shots:

 

[neobido9999]

If it tunrs out (and it looks like it will) that sandman is merely a petty crook (and a thug) but not a murderer, i very much like what Sam Raimi is doing here.

The villains of the piece echo peter parkers own issues - Doc Ock was a proud man but after the accident power obssessed, Sandman is a victim of symbiote as much as Parker and Brock is ultimately destroyed by the symbiote himself - due to him giving into it.

The only evil person is in some ways Norman Osbourne, or at least part of him. Again this was only bought about by a trauma, like the other bad guys.

In other words, all the villains tie in to parker (and in some cases he wrongs them as much as they wrong him) and they are all, ultimately (with the exception, i imagine, of Brock in full on Venom mode) sahdes a grey charcters. This makes them far more interesting than a Blofeld type chacrer, one who is remote from the hero and irredeemably bad. And it give the whole trilogy a kind of intelligent humanist stance which can be seen in other Sam Raimi film (notably A Simple Plan). Only differnece bieng, he does it with a comic book vocabularly.

---

Reading some of the other posts it occurs to me just how much potential there is for subtext in this movie, the idea of PP being consumed by the symbiote/revenge, the idea of the sybiote the finding brock (in a church) and taking revenge on the person who rejected it. it could ber both a great event movie and a great human story

 

[dark_b]

but still. what are the chances that sandman has the same shirt when he kills ben and when he becomes sandman.

or spidey when he dreams remembers him only with the green shirt thats why he has teh sam shirt on with ben.

 

[The Joker]

The "white light" in this image is a REFLECTOR, (you can see them in the wider shots of this filming) used because they were shooting at night, and needed more light. Why the hell would they shoot this scene on a New York street, which is extremely expensive, if the were only going to make the background white? They would have shot it in the studio for much less money.

They're using the same type of reflector here:

Is this a dream sequence too?

And note, no white background in these shots:

Go Dragon

The only way Sandman is going to be a victim of the black suit, is because it's going to amplify Peter's already overwhelming hatred for Marko to the point where he's going to want to, and probably will try to kill him.

That scene in the subway tunnel, where we see Sandman struggling for his life in the water, and symbiote Spidey just swinging away from it, is obviously something Peter did on purpose.

Like throwing the pumpkin bomb in Harry's face. He's gone over the edge.

And as someone else said, the Police would not call in Peter and May and tell them that Marko was Ben's real killer unless they had unshakeable evidence.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

sandman is an escaped prisoner not trying to fight spidey, spidey goes after him, because the symbiote is making him do it, sandman is not an evil villian, hes tryig to help his family and other things, and, peter is going after him because peter found out that marko was his unce bens killer and the symbiote is making him full of rage, it makes him want to kill sandman alot more.

 

[Venom 1988]

sandman is an escaped prisoner not trying to fight spidey, spidey goes after him, because the symbiote is making him do it, sandman is not an evil villian, hes tryig to help his family and other things.

The first time they fight, Spidey doesnt have the symbiote.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

The first time they fight, Spidey doesnt have the symbiote.

yeah, but, spidey doesnt fight sandman again until he has the symbiote and symbiote spidey tracks sandman down and tries to kill him, the first fight they had in spidey3 will be when spidey is in his red and blue costume, sandman punches spidey out of the armored car, after he found out that flint marko was hios uncle bens killer, then, he was angry in there first fight, but, then when he gets the symbiote hes even more angry, "do you remember ben parker", "what does it matter to you anyway", "everything!", thats why peter wont stop until he kills sandman.

 

[Venom 1988]

yeah, but, spidey doesnt fight sandman again until he has the symbiote and symbiote spidey tracks sandman down and tries to kill him, the first fight they had in spidey3 will be when spidey is in his red and blue costume, sandman punches spidey out of the armored car, after he found out that flint marko was hios uncle bens killer, then, he was angry in there first fight, but, then when he gets the symbiote hes even more angry, "do you remember ben parker", "what does it matter to you anyway", "everything!", thats why peter wont stop until he kills sandman.

Ok now I get ya.

 

[lordofthenerds]

The first time they fight, Spidey doesnt have the symbiote.

And is Sandman is probably robbing the armored car for his family. The girl in the poster is his daughter btw.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

And is Sandman is probably robbing the armored car for his family. The girl in the poster is his daughter btw.

if thats true then that means sandman needs money for his family becauuse they are broke.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Very interesting theory.

But I have to admit, that I actually like this idea of Flint being something of the villain of the movie, but also something of a pawn in a much larger story that Peter would not be initially aware of. So basically it keeps Sandman as the sympathetic/complex villain he has been shown to be in the comics, and also adds a bit more depth than just being a superpowered thug that he could have very easily become. Awesome.

Well said Shredder.

 

[StarkCEO]

Everyone is already saying that Flint Marko as Ben Parker's murderer is a leap in logic, and I also agree. Obviously, Raimi is setting up the Sandman/Spider-Man conflict as a case of mistaken identity, whereby Peter Parker will feel even more guilty for abusing his powers to exact vengeance on the wrong man.

If you watch the trailers closely, you'll notice that Flint Marko is holding up shopping bags before he gets confronted by Spidey in the black suit. What kind of villian runs around errands, no doubt for his family? Also, the teaser poster featuring Sandman is of him protecting a child holding a stuffed animal. So he is obviously not a "villian" in this picture.

And lastly, the final shot of the Sandman in the Theatrical trailer is of him reaching out for help as he gets drowned in a torrent of water. Obviously, we are meant to sympathize with the Sandman character, and his persecution at the hands of the Black Suit serves further to villianize the symbiote and Peter's actions while under the influence of his new alien powers.

Adieu.

I am a detective, Adieu.

Actually if you slow down the trailer you can see Sandman is holding bags of $100 bills.

 

[Karea07]

Makes sense... good theory. I want Spidey's symbiote to take over and make him kill Sandman.

 

[Zarathustra_9]

It brings up an interesting thought...

In case Spidey doesn't kill him while being bonded with the Symbiote, could he actually forgive him/learn the truth after getting rid of it???

Is it possible that Spidey asks Sandman (!) for help and they team up together against Venom???
(Sandman possibly dying during the battle)

This is of course an idea born out of a sleep deprived brain and a lack of caffeine... Still, I think it could be one hell of a twist...t:

 

[Karea07]

I don't want Sandman fighting Venom...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Makes sense... good theory. I want Spidey's symbiote to take over and make him kill Sandman.

dont worry that will happen, symbiote spidey tracks down sandman.

 

[SolidSnake]

Not sure if this was discussed, but how would the suit destroy Spidey's judgment if he fights Sandman in the armored car?

Hope that makes sense...

 

[Flappy]

Okay. This reminds me of the debate just before Spidey 2's release. A number of folks couldn't accept that Peter would lose his powers, while for some of us, (ahem) it was pretty obvious.

Same here. People can't handle the lameness of Sandman being Ben's killer and are going off into this tangent, now making him an innocent victim

The police wouldn't tell the Parkers that Marko was the actual killer of Ben with no evidence. They'd merely say he was an accomplice. Sandman is THE MAIN VILLAIN here. THC has said it, Raimi has said it. Like Ock(lost his wife) and even the goblin (He was trying to save his company) there will be some tragic circumstances (caring for his daughter) but anyone who thinks they're going to flip on his killing Ben is barking up the wrong tree. They don't tell stories that way in big budget Hollywood.

On the contrary- they introduced his killing Ben to make him a worse villain.

It also reminds me of the debate that the "chip" will turn Octavius into a villain. Many didn't want to believe it and would come up with some crazy theories.

 

[Zarathustra_9]

I don't want Sandman fighting Venom...

Hmmm... Why not? Could be a cool battle... (Venom doesn't necessarily have to kill Sandman as well as Sandman doesn't necessarily have to ally himself with Spidey... I still like the idea tho', just for the sheer outlandishness of it ).

 

[jimmylace]

thats exactly what Ive been saying all along. I think a "villain" who isn't smart or calculating will be a nice change of pace.....