Falcon and Winter Soldier SEASON 1, EPISODE 5: TRUTH (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'MCU Limited Series on Disney+' started by Donner, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. legendkillin Registered

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    When Isaiah was talking about the shield stars and stripes, I wonder damn what did he think of Rhodes being Iron Patriot?

    It was a solid episode, I liked seeing Sam working hard and training to use the shield. It takes actual work to use it since Cap made it look kind of easy. Walker used some basic techniques with it.
     
  2. legendkillin Registered

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    So is the Power Broker stuff something they are setting up for another season?

    Zemo just got wrapped up and Karli Flagsmasher stuff should be next.

    Walker's Rogue Cap will always be a problem with whoever that person was. They seem to be setting Carter up as the Power Broker.
     
  3. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    Zemo's mask barely served any purpose. And somehow I doubt they're going to fuse his mask to his face otherwise that would mean no more Daniel Bruhl appearing as he is or going clubbing unless he dances in a mask, but it would get very hot in that.
     
  4. Dark Raven It's not about what you deserve...

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    I was thinking: since Julia Louis-Dreyfuss is such a big actress, why didn't she get the "And" credit at the end of Falcon and Winter Soldier instead of Daniel Bruhl? Why is she stuck somewhere in the middle after Wyatt Russell?
     
  5. Zarex Registered

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    I doubt he thought much of it. As I posted earlier, Iron Patriot was a US military weapon and not a US symbol like Captain America.

    It was pretty much a lengthy cameo, so the middle credit makes sense. Ms. Louis-Dreyfuss is a 60 year old billionaire and a breast cancer survivor with 11 Emmys, so she may not be competitive regarding credit placement at this stage of her career.
     
  6. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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  7. Web-Head Oh boy yeah

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    I was thinking about this the other day too. I would have liked to see him wear it more than just in that one scene. He could have worn it when he was going after Karli or something at least.
     
  8. JB33 The Eternal Deviant

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    Hated the race baiting in this episode. Ugh. Haven't felt like that after anything Marvel since the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3. Left a bad taste in my mouth and kind of killed the hype for Episode 6.
     
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  9. Silvermoon Made To Be Ruled

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    Can you go into more detail how it bothered you? (I'm just curious since you're the first one I've seen that has hated the racial discussions that happened in this episode)
     
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  10. JB33 The Eternal Deviant

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    Good idea, I should probably clarify more.

    I had zero problem with Isaiah's story (well, the only problem I had was changing his captors to Americans from the Nazis, who in the comics were the ones who experimented on him). I feel like Isaiah came off so unlikable by making it a blanket statement on white people, rather than the people specifically who did that to him. Sam stuck up for Steve Rogers but Isaiah seemed unwilling to give the respect that was deserved to Steve and the shield, regardless of his horrible experiences.

    I don't know. I see what Marvel was trying to do, I just find in my opinion it wasn't executed that well. It felt like just another divisive black vs white thing when it didn't need to be. It's a reflection of how I feel about everything in real life right now. Some horrible things have happened to black people that have justifiably shined a spotlight on racism but we've gone too far overboard with the smearing of white people and "whiteness".

    Lastly, and this is just a personal thing, I love the character of Steve Rogers and I love the symbolism of the shield and the stars and stripes so Marvel taking a big **** over all that through the eyes of Isaiah just really irked me.

    In a nutshell: you can tell Isaiah's story without making this another black vs white thing. We don't need that ****. Not with escapist stuff like Marvel Comics which is something that should be bringing us all together.
     
  11. Donner Formerly Elektra1 (she/her/hers)

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    I don't see any smearing of whiteness going around. That sounds like you taking things a bit too personally.

    In CA:TFA, Steve was going to be sent off to a lab to be a lab rat, so it's established in MCU canon that the Americans would absolutely experiment on people. I think the story of Isaiah hits harder because he was poked and prodded by his own people, which is something they absolutely would do. Let's not forget that the Americans gave Japanese scientists immunity for their horrendous human experimentation in WWII in exchange for their data. Blaming the Nazis again in this story would just be tiresome. It's more interesting that Isaiah was imprisoned by his own government and let's face it, it's not exactly a stretch. And to tell someone they should only blame the people who did them wrong and not the whole race is rich, given how people react to terrorist attacks and Covid-19 coming out of China. Why is it that black people should be held to a higher standard than anyone else? Isaiah can blame all white people if he wants. We do it all the time.

    I don't think it's Marvel's job to sing happy lullabies when people in the real world are suffering. And your complaint about not bringing people together doesn't make much sense given the last episode. Bucky and Sam are building those bridges, that's kind of the point.
     
  12. JB33 The Eternal Deviant

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    Yeah, I mean it could have struck a nerve with me and that's that. That scene just didn't work for me. Like, at all.

    I was also disappointed that Zemo's story (at least in this show) got wrapped up just like that. His whole role suddenly feels so much smaller and more pointless.

    Lastly, I really didn't want Sam to become Cap. No, it's not because he's black before anyone jumps on me. I didn't want ANYONE to become Cap. Steve Rogers was Cap. I felt that in reality and in the Marvel Universe that Captain America should be retired. Again, just a personal preference thing. Plus., Falcon is really cool as is. I felt Sam should OWN that instead of taking up a mantle. As soon as he told Torres "Keep it" about the wings, I immediately groaned.

    The episode just didn't hit it with me. That's all.
     
  13. djsunyc Registered

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    episode 6 didn't air yet - we don't know if sam will still be called falcon or take up the captain america moniker.

    what this shows is that america is not the same america steve rogers grew up in. this america is much more complex and way more different.

    only wanting steve to be captain america means that america is dead w/ steve. america isn't dead...it's different. do you fix the boat and keep it or do you fix it and sell it? making sam captain america is fixing the boat and keeping it.
     
  14. JB33 The Eternal Deviant

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    This makes sense, but like I said I have a personal attachment to the character of Steve Rogers so in that sense I'm still not really going to feel any differently. We all have our own preferences with stuff like this.
     
  15. TeeKay Registered

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    Thank you.:up:
     
  16. Black Is King Registered

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    Truth: Red, White & Black
    The Falcon and The Winter Soldier Ep. 5: “Truth” is inspired by “Truth: Red, White & Black” which introduced Isaiah Bradley. The story was written by Robert Morales & illustrated by Kyle Baker. The scene when Isaiah tells Sam Wilson his tragic story is heavily inspired by this comic.

    63B8F803-2C15-4E69-8DDB-096A395FE7F7.jpeg
     
    #291 Black Is King, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  17. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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    Steve Rogers legacy still remains untarnished imo because of the man he is. That shield is a tribute to his fight and accomplishments as Captain America. No one can ever take away the good he's done or the amount of work he did to ensure freedom and liberty not just America but the entire world as The leader of The Avengers.
     
  18. FeedOnATreeFrog (A Metal Gear reference)

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    I thought the Isiah stuff was great, specifically because it’s ultimately going to be something Sam disagrees with.

    I like the theme of not letting other people define you, be it people of your same era, same race, same political leanings, etc.

    To me, exploring all of that actually makes Sam picking up the shield interesting (or makes Sam interesting at all). Whereas it could have been a simple story of Sam not feeling worthy or whatever, Sam’s Captain America, just like Steve, becomes a symbol of staying true to what You, the individual, believes. Just that whereas Steve dealt with navigating the spectrum of freedom and security, Sam’s battle is about race.

    And if you don’t want to get into this stuff, best stay away from modern Captain America stories.
     
    #293 FeedOnATreeFrog, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  19. legendkillin Registered

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    If Steve would have known he would have helped Isiah and the others that were experimented on. That is probably why they kept it real secret, even when Steve was out of ice Shield kept things hidden from him. He isn't the type to ask what is going on in every area of the organization, but he does not just follow orders when given or agree with every decision.
     
  20. Black Is King Registered

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    I’d like to state in general, Black Americans presenting their stories and perspectives on American life is not race baiting/political/woke, it’s reality being told from a valid perspective based on experience. Same goes for when Black Americans celebrate their culture and history, it’s not just an agenda. The implications are bigger than that for the people involved and for the culture.
     
  21. Lantern Venom Emerald Echo Podcast Co-Host

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    Well said.
     
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  22. Black Is King Registered

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    Thank you. I feel like these same discussions happen often times when the focus is on Black, women, and LGBTQ characters.
     
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  23. Hannibal75 Registered

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    I don't know if this has something to do with what you say, but outside the US I'm pretty sure that Bruhl is more well-known that JLD. He has after all a much more impressive career in cinema while she is mostly known from TV.
     
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  24. metaphysician Not a Side-Kick

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    Actually, that is a thought I had. Obviously we don't have direct evidence, but. . . we do know that almost immediately after the sketchy SSS experiments in Korea turned up a result, "the government" arrested Isaiah and disappeared him into a hole for decades. Now, obviously this ties into a simple allegory for race relations, but there's also a plausible additional angle: the people doing that experiment made him disappear because *they couldn't let anyone know what they were doing*. Because, I theorize, this was *not* a broadly approved project universally accepted by the government, but something being done secretly even within the government.

    Or, essentially, "The still relatively few Hydra elements in the SSR/SHIELD absolutely could not afford for word of this to reach someone like Peggy Carter or Howard Stark." Doubly so since they were clearly collaborating across US/Soviet lines, too ( vis a vis the Winter Soldier ).
     
  25. The Caped Knight Shield Avenger

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    Absolutely he would have done something about it. Steve doesn't like to see oppression of any kind. In fact in the comics Steve did do something about it when he found out about the mistreatment of Isaiah.
     

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