Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 1

[KRYPTON INC.]

Jesus... This thread.

 

[DanielFM]

Both Jane and Pepper are very good at what they do, but their expertise doesn't really make them all that useful in a movie with superheroes punching things.

Neither Sharon's expertise as just a "good I-shoot-stuff agent".

I won't get tired of mentioning it. Black Widow works in MCU movies because she is a superspy. The best trained at what she does. Anything less and she would feel shoehorned.
Maria Hill works because she is so minor of a character that her usefulness really doesn't get into question.

If you think getting "Maria Hill #2" as Cap's girlfriend is cool well, good for you. For me it doesn't cut it.

PD: Just in case someone mention Peggy was just a "good I-shoot-stuff agent" too, there is a whole world of difference. She was that in a time when women where at home saving scrap iron and rising children instead of crossing the ocean and being part of the most bloody war of history.
Just worth remembering.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well maybe she'll be a superspy this time around.

 

[Mike5575]

Neither Sharon's expertise as just a "good I-shoot-stuff agent".

I won't get tired of mentioning it. Black Widow works in MCU movies because she is a superspy.

The best trained at what she does. Anything less and she would feel shoehorned.

The fact that Black Widow is a superspy is exactly why it shouldn't work.

You're a spy, not a soldier. Now, you want to wade into a war.

Natasha needed to steel Bobbi Morse's batons and borrow Cap's Shield just so she wasn't completely useless in a fight against robots. Any edge Black Widow has in fighting skills over Sharon is negligible considering the vast power differences between the other Avengers.

It really depends on the story, and how the characters are used. Black Widow's ability to dispatch normal humans in IM2 and TWS is much more believable than her being able to slay armored robots with a tiny pistol. Considering that Black Widow and Hawkeye will be on opposing sides, it's likely that Hawkeye and Sharon Carter could team up to take down Black Widow. You know, just let the mere mortals slug it out.

 

[Three_Inches]

The fact that Black Widow is a superspy is exactly why it shouldn't work.




Natasha needed to steel Bobbi Morse's batons and borrow Cap's Shield just so she wasn't completely useless in a fight against robots. Any edge Black Widow has in fighting skills over Sharon is negligible considering the vast power differences between the other Avengers.

It really depends on the story, and how the characters are used. Black Widow's ability to dispatch normal humans in IM2 and TWS is much more believable than her being able to slay armored robots with a tiny pistol. Considering that Black Widow and Hawkeye will be on opposing sides, it's likely that Hawkeye and Sharon Carter could team up to take down Black Widow. You know, just let the mere mortals slug it out.

The Widow's fighting prowess, although formidable, is not her contribution to the team. That is not her power. Her wit and cunning are her power.

 

[Mike5575]

The Widow's fighting prowess, although formidable, is not her contribution to the team. That is not her power. Her wit and cunning are her power.

I liked how they used Widow in the EMH animated series. She wasn't really part of the team, but was a spy running around doing spy things, such as infiltrating Hydra. That should be her role in the MCU, but Marvel needs a female hero on the roster, and Edgar Wright sat on Ant-Man for years, which is why we got Widow instead of Wasp. Widow was at her best in discovering a way to neutralize the tesseract.

 

[BoredGuy]

so, according to the thought process of some on this thread:

-Rhodey should give up being WM, because he'll never be the best Armored avenger, hence, useless
-Bucky will never be as good as Cap, so they should drop the character
-Falcon too, because he just "does what [Cap] does but slower"
-Every SHIELD agent besides Nick Fury will never be as good as him, so they should just retire and go home

seriously, I mean, why "shoehorn" all these useless, boring characters in?
</snark>

I feel like some people round here must've been spurned hard by a blonde at some point in their life

 

[Voltron]

Exactly BoredGuy! Double standards indeed! Sharon's kickass and EVC's so sweet and kind irl.

 

[DanielFM]

so, according to the thought process of some on this thread:

-Rhodey should give up being WM, because he'll never be the best Armored avenger, hence, useless
-Bucky will never be as good as Cap, so they should drop the character
-Falcon too, because he just "does what [Cap] does but slower"
-Every SHIELD agent besides Nick Fury will never be as good as him, so they should just retire and go home

seriously, I mean, why "shoehorn" all these useless, boring characters in?
</snark>

I feel like some people round here must've been spurned hard by a blonde at some point in their life

Two armored Avengers, even if one is sub-par, is very valuable (that's without taking into account Tony has left the Avengers). They are a very strong asset.
The same for a slightly-less-super-soldier specialized in assassination and with a definitely powerful bionic arm.
Or a very interesting combination of agile flight and combat expertise (Falcon).
They are all redundant in a way but still very valuable.

Natasha is already on the edge of being valuable for the Avengers. Bring a budget version of her and she doesn't bring a lot.

I won't even comment on the Shield agents thing. You can have a secret agency witha single agent, right?

 

[Voltron]

Two armored Avengers, even if one is sub-par, is very valuable (that's without taking into account Tony has left the Avengers). They are a very strong asset.
The same for a slightly-less-super-soldier specialized in assassination and with a definitely powerful bionic arm.
Or a very interesting combination of agile flight and combat expertise (Falcon).
They are all redundant in a way but still very valuable.

Natasha is already on the edge of being valuable for the Avengers. Bring a budget version of her and she doesn't bring a lot.

I won't even comment on the Shield agents thing. You can have a secret agency witha single agent, right?

To you maybe, but to others she's not a budget version! She showed strength and boldness in that launch scene. Plus more kickass women the better and interacting with one another would be ace.

You're already assuming when you haven't even seen CW and what she's capable of.

 

[BoredGuy]

I won't even comment on the Shield agents thing. You can have a secret agency witha single agent, right?

s'called hyperbole, exaggeration, as well as snark, or more generally, a joke
look those terms up, they'll be very helpful to you around here

 

[DanielFM]

s'called hyperbole, exaggeration, as well as snark, or more generally, a joke
look those terms up, they'll be very helpful to you around here

A dumb hyperbole/exaggeration/joke won't get you very far.

That example was pointless because in that exact instance, you need by definition regular mooks and elite guys directing them.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Natasha is already on the edge of being valuable for the Avengers. Bring a budget version of her and she doesn't bring a lot.

But this isn't about what they bring to the fight. It's what they bring to the PLOT as a CHARACTER!

 

[Voltron]

Exactly!

Also, let Steve find happiness with Sharon! Let the Cap find love!

 

[BoredGuy]

A dumb hyperbole/exaggeration/joke won't get you very far.

yeah well, neither will being an a******

 

[Rote]

It took 2 films for Thor and Jane to get together, with no need for Jane to overcome previous related Thor's love interest, and still they are painfully lame. Same about Tony and Pepper, which are better, but the real pay off came only in IM3. And it's with Jane and Pepper in both movies having the roles of female leads and famous actresses. Now we have the last Cap's solo movie, there Sharon has to prove herself that she's worth to be related to Peggy, that she's worth of Steve, that Steve truly loves her, not memory of Peggy, and that's all with Sharon not being even the female lead. And EVC being a very dubious actress, no compare with Atwell. And Steve's main emotional arc is not about her, but about Bucky and his conflict with Tony + Zemo. And after this big overstuffed IW, there they will hardly find a place for much time with old team, so it's very doubtful, that she'll get there prominent role and not the another cameo. Sounds like very promising love story, yeah.

 

[DanielFM]

But this isn't about what they bring to the fight. It's what they bring to the PLOT as a CHARACTER!

Ok, then don't feature her as a prominent part of the team in the artwork, when she isn't useful.
Have her in the back with the rest of the cast and I see no problem.

yeah well, neither will being an a******

You started by being overly sarcastic for no reason.
I have no intention to get the discussion dragged to that level. Let's stay civil please. I'm sorry if I offended you.

It took 2 films for Thor and Jane to get together, with no need for Jane to overcome previous related Thor's love interest, and still they are painfully lame. Same about Tony and Pepper, which are better, but the real pay off came only in IM3. And it's with Jane and Pepper in both movies having the roles of female leads and famous actresses. Now we have the last Cap's solo movie, there Sharon has to prove herself that she's worth to be related to Peggy, that she's worth of Steve, that Steve truly loves her, not memory of Peggy, and that's all with Sharon not being even the female lead. And EVC being a very dubious actress, no compare with Atwell. And Steve's main emotional arc is not about her, but about Bucky and his conflict with Tony + Zemo. And after this big overstuffed IW, there they will hardly find a place for much time with old team, so it's very doubtful, that she'll get there prominent role and not the another cameo. Sounds like very promising love story, yeah.

 

[Mike5575]

Ok, then don't feature her as a prominent part of the team in the artwork, when she isn't useful.
Have her in the back with the rest of the cast and I see no problem.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Sharon Carter is no more useless than Natasha Romanoff in a superhero fight. Put either of them in a fight against Vision and see who will last the longest. Black Widow would probably last a fraction of a second longer before Vision melts both of them with the mind stone. There's a reason why only Hawkeye and BW were seen rescuing civilians from that bus in Avengers 1. They weren't very useful to the fight.

Since SC is on the same side as Hawkeye, Clint and Sharon could team up to take down Black Widow. See, that's some usefulness right there.

Black Widow found out a way to neutralize the tesseract in the Avengers as well. See, Black Widow was useful there. She contributed greatly to the conflict without actually fighting anyone.

For Sharon Carter, she's about as useful as the writers want to make her in any given moment. It's the same for any character from Hulk to Jane Foster. So, yeah. Stop hating on Sharon please.

 

[RedRose]

I wonder if Steve is going to call her "Agent Carter" at any point.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

Well in Infinity War, there is no reason aside from perhaps budgeting and script issues to get rid of any of the established Avengers. There is no such thing as overkill here

 

[fixxxer]

Wow! I take a couple of months away from the Hype, and return to see that this one has officially become the entire forum's most bizarre thread.

Going over the last few (OK, many) pages the sense I get is that many people here are projecting. Both projecting their feelings from the comics onto the MCU, and on the flipside, projecting some ambiguous "threshold of worthiness" that any prospective mate of MCU Cap has to cross. A threshold that seemingly only Peggy in the history of womanhood has crossed.

Can we wait and see how her character and relationship with Steve (if there's one) will play out before the knives are unsheathed? At this point, we don't even know if her last name is Carter (though it probably is) for crying out loud.

 

[Voltron]

Obviously this is a "Sharon Carter Thread" meaning people who like/love or dislike/hate her can discuss her here freely. But yeah the hate is OTT, baseless, mostly double standards and because to them Sharon poses a threat to their preferred "Steve ships". I bet if Hill and Sharon swapped roles it would be Hill bearing the brunt of the hate.

 

[Suzanne78]

I think some of the "hate" is mostly one poster, and it's just getting replied to a lot. Others have expressed some reasonable opinions about Sharon based on TWS and the comics. We're not all going to agree on her character, and to be honest, I feel that's Marvel's fault for the way the comics have handled her in the past.

I'm ready to see whether I develop a connection to EVC's portrayal. But.... Is it unfair of some of us to say that EVC and Sharon has some rather big shoes to fill, re. Peggy? I mean, that can kind of be part of the character's arc for CW, her aunt's legacy driving her to be the best agent possible, her aunt's relationship with Steve complicating her own. Dismissing the impact of Sharon on Steve's life (in the comics) is just as bad as dismissing the impact of Peggy on his (in the movies).

It's up to the filmmakers and VanCamp to make her stand out, at least for me. I'm a bit skeptical, but, like I've said before, since this is a CW adaptation and very lightly so, I'm keeping an open mind. It's sort of a continuation of a throughline of Steve's story from TFA: he cannot ever fully escape from his past. Bucky, Zola, now Peggy and Sharon.... Steve will always have to deal with his "ghosts" and either move on from them or fold them into his life.

 

[Loki882]

so, according to the thought process of some on this thread:

-Rhodey should give up being WM, because he'll never be the best Armored avenger, hence, useless
-Bucky will never be as good as Cap, so they should drop the character
-Falcon too, because he just "does what [Cap] does but slower"
-Every SHIELD agent besides Nick Fury will never be as good as him, so they should just retire and go home

seriously, I mean, why "shoehorn" all these useless, boring characters in?
</snark>

I feel like some people round here must've been spurned hard by a blonde at some point in their life

Don't forget "if a character doesn't have godlike superpowers, or really advanced tech/armor, then they shouldn't be an Avengers because they're useless." Never mind that the different character with different backgrounds/powers/skillsets, and different ideologies/ways of doing things coming together is a big part of what makes team books fun/appealing, or that the comics have been doing it for DECADES, often with great success. Nope, they're useless.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I'm not sure how forcing Sharon's storyline to invoke Peggy is helping any.