Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 1

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There's a damn good reason Scarlett's BW is larger priority and far ahead in screen time of this pair and it's not just popularity but talent. There's a reason Atwell is so highly thought of and now has her own series.

Look at the quality of actresses the other films have and are getting and compare them to EVC who some want to make a leading lady? Gwyneth Paltrow, Natalie Portman, Cate Blanchette, Tilda Swinton, Rachel McAdams.

Which one of these is not like the other?

Maria Hill and Sharon should have been cast with far stronger actors. As it stands there's not much to do with them unless you want to degrade the quality of the films. I blame Whedon for the Cobie hire and yeah Disney, Feige, the Russos whomever for EVC and not recasting when they should have.

Well, I think Natalie Portman sucks, or maybe it's her "I give no ****s about Marvel" attitude that really puts me off about her. Kat Dennings is even worse. I don't mind Cobie. She's passable. At least she's not the ***** she is in the comics. But maybe, that's the point...
 
Man, reading all of these comments makes me feel so sad for Sharon. :(

I don't know. Maybe it's not a conspiracy theory. One of the reasons the Russos teamed up BW with Cap is because she's a shady character and Cap has a very black and white view of the world, where Widow sees nothing but shades of grey. I'm sure Sharon Carter is like a Black Widow clone in the comics, having a similar viewpoint and all, but the general audience wouldn't know that. Time would be needed to establish that dynamic between Sharon and Steve. Where, with Widow, they wouldn't need to establish that dynamic, it's already there. Then, there's the thing with Black Widow being popular or something. Fans want to see more of Black Widow, or maybe Kevin Feige forced them because he loves Black Widow. Or maybe Disney forced the Russos because they love Black Widow. Well, they don't love her enough to make that much merchandise. :woot:

:woot::woot::woot:

We don't know what Marvels original plans were for Sharon in TWS. But I will admit that some of Nats dialogue really did remind me of Sharon from the comics (especially the fossil joke). But if they did give Sharons role/personality to Nat in TWS it leaves the question of what will Sharon be like in CW?
 
They gave some of Sharon's role and lines from the comics to BW (and a few to Sam), not the personality. Sharon in the comics isn't wooden, she's passionate, tough, fiery, and jokey. So Sharon from the comics is not a clone of MCU BW. I really enjoyed Staron's banters in the comics.

EVC will succeed/fail based on her performance as Sharon Carter in CW. A good script and direction from the Russos will only go so far.

But for gods sake don't insult the likes of Natalie Portman and Gwyneth Paltrow by comparing them to EVC. Regardless of what you think of Gwyneth as a person she has done a great job as Pepper Potts and outshone Scarlett in IM2. As for Karen Gillan, Kat Dennings, Chris Pratt, and Dave Bautista they have all proved themselves in Marvel roles which EVC arguably remains to do.

I do feel for EVC as she's in a tough position being asked to create chemistry with Cap that matches Peggy & Nat. The possibility that she will start to bond with Cap by flirting over coffee at Peggys funeral doesn't help - I hope this isn't true as its very distasteful imo and willl just upset Steggy fans. Add in the fact that Cap is dating Peggys neice and she has a tough role to sell.
Yeah, at the end of the day, it's up to EVC to really sell Sharon.

Also where did I insult Portman and Paltrow?

Yeah I preferred Paltrow to Scarjo in IM2 definitely.

Also it takes two to create chemistry so it's up to Evans and EVC where they have to play off each other. EVC did mention that she did a screen test with Evans and the production people liked it enough to hire her.
 
Man, reading all of these comments makes me feel so sad for Sharon. :(

I don't know. Maybe it's not a conspiracy theory. One of the reasons the Russos teamed up BW with Cap is because she's a shady character and Cap has a very black and white view of the world, where Widow sees nothing but shades of grey. I'm sure Sharon Carter is like a Black Widow clone in the comics, having a similar viewpoint and all, but the general audience wouldn't know that. Time would be needed to establish that dynamic between Sharon and Steve. Where, with Widow, they wouldn't need to establish that dynamic, it's already there. Then, there's the thing with Black Widow being popular or something. Fans want to see more of Black Widow, or maybe Kevin Feige forced them because he loves Black Widow. Or maybe Disney forced the Russos because they love Black Widow. Well, they don't love her enough to make that much merchandise. :woot:
No Sharon is not.

Also it's fine that Cap and BW teamed up, but it would not have hurt for Sharon to have more than 3 minutes. I really disliked the way how her name was just thrown as an afterthought. I would've preferred for Sharon herself to have told Cap her real name. Anyway, 3 and a half more months until CW to see how everything unfolds with Sharon!
 
1) "hardened cynical morally flexible spy plays off the idealistic old fashioned steadfast moralistic hero" is exactly Sharon and Steve's dynamic.

Which wouldn't work in the MCU. Because then that would make Sharon a Black Widow clone. Because Black Widow came into the MCU first with that personality and dynamic.

So having her in that role in Winter Soldier was the best choice from a storytelling standpoint.

Sharon being "a young idealistic SHIELD agent" has never really been a thing.

2) The Russos came in when the script was complete, and campaigned to have Black Widow get "a much bigger role". They admitted this.

The screenplay was ready to go, but they had ideas of their own. Namely that they needed a lot more Black Widow.

Maybe because Widow being in that role made the most sense, given the MCU continuity which is DIFFERENT from the comic book continuity? But no, the Russo's hate Sharon Carter and this is all a conspiracy to hurt her. Of course it is!

For Black Widow to get such a massive role, something had to be sacrificed. Unless the movie was originally seventy minutes long.

The Russos have also said that Steve's neighbor who is actually a SHIELD agent wasn't originally Sharon.

So where was Sharon before they turned some random bit character into Sharon?

First you say the Russo's cut Sharon and put Widow into her place and then you say Sharon wasn't even in the script until the Russo's put her in there as Steve's undercover neighbor.

Which is it? Both of those things can't be the case.

But I'm guessing none of that means anything because movies aren't comics or some other tired old rhetoric.:whatever:

The comic book continuity is NOT the MCU continuity. I don't care how salty that makes you, its still true.



How about the fact that Sharon was always a seasoned SHIELD agent, and the Russos made her into a young, inexperienced agent who lost to Crossbones even though she had a gun on him. There's your respect from the directors.

Natasha pushing Steve to date her doesn't do Sharon any favors, since the movie doesn't spend any time of showing much about Steve and Sharon, or about Sharon herself. Not many thought much about the pairing because of Natasha's recommendation.

What most took away is that Natasha is a good friend because she's trying to get Steve someone. It was for Natasha's benefit.

What sense would it make to eat up a ton of screen time to establish Sharon as a seasoned SHIELD agent and her relationship with Steve when they could just drop Black Widow in and use her established place in the MCU as shorthand (and Scarlett Johansson is already under contract) and hit the ground running? Pacing is important in movies.

But lets look at Sharon's treatment in the movie again.

Nick Fury assigned her to watch over Steve Rogers. This is obviously an important job to give to a SHIELD agent, looking after the "greatest soldier in history" as Fury called him. And she got the job. So obviously Fury has great respect for her.

She acted heroically when Crossbones (a highly trained dangerous and more experienced fighter and one of Cap's biggest enemies in the comics) was trying to intimidate people in the control room into launching Project Insight.

After SHIELD gets destroyed she is able to get a job in the CIA right away. She must have something going for herself if she can do that.

Black Widow respected her enough to think she would be a good romantic partner for Steve.

How is any of that a disrespectful treatment? Given that the movie had Black Widow and The Falcon and Nick Fury as major supporting characters eating up a lot of screen time (and big stars playing those characters) Sharon got a good role in the movie all things considered. And she was set up for future movies going forward, to expand her character. Why would the Russo's set her up as a future love interest for Cap if they didn't want to use her?
 
There's a damn good reason Scarlett's BW is larger priority and far ahead in screen time of this pair and it's not just popularity but talent. There's a reason Atwell is so highly thought of and now has her own series.

Look at the quality of actresses the other films have and are getting and compare them to EVC who some want to make a leading lady? Gwyneth Paltrow, Natalie Portman, Cate Blanchette, Tilda Swinton, Rachel McAdams.

Which one of these is not like the other?

Maria Hill and Sharon should have been cast with far stronger actors. As it stands there's not much to do with them unless you want to degrade the quality of the films. I blame Whedon for the Cobie hire and yeah Disney, Feige, the Russos whomever for EVC and not recasting when they should have.

Agreeing with all of this, but mostly responding (rather late) to say that Rachel McAdams is a wonderful addition to the Ladies of the MCU. Just saw her today in "Spotlight" (featuring Ruffles :yay: in a terrific performance) and I was reminded just how much presence she has. I remember how charming she was opposite Grumpy Old Man Harrison Ford in "Morning Glory" a few years back.
 
Which wouldn't work in the MCU. Because then that would make Sharon a Black Widow clone. Because Black Widow came into the MCU first with that personality and dynamic.

So having her in that role in Winter Soldier was the best choice from a storytelling standpoint.

Black Widow didn't have a dynamic of any stripe with Cap before TWS.

And she's hardly the only cynical pragmatic spy in fiction.

First you say the Russo's cut Sharon and put Widow into her place and then you say Sharon wasn't even in the script until the Russo's put her in there as Steve's undercover neighbor.

Which is it? Both of those things can't be the case.

I didn't say that :whatever: I said that "Kate" was originally not Sharon.

That means one of two things;

1) Sharon had a different role that was cut.

2) Sharon wasn't in the script at all.

Which despite the fact that

a. the movie is full of SHIELD and SHIELD agents and Sharon is a SHIELD agent, a major Captain America supporting character.

b. Peggy, who in 2009-11 (the period TFA was developed in), was pretty irrelevant as far as WWII Cap love interests went aside from the fact that she's related to Sharon, was put in the movie as a main character. Even though movie Peggy is much more similar to Cynthia Glass and Betty Ross than she does with Peggy Carter.

c. That M&M have talked about wanting to use since the 2011.

The comic book continuity is NOT the MCU continuity. I don't care how salty that makes you, its still true.

I don't think you care about how irrelevant it is, either.

Comics not being the MCU means that things can be changed. It doesn't mean that any change is beyond discussion. Or that change for the sake of change

What sense would it make to eat up a ton of screen time to establish Sharon as a seasoned SHIELD agent and her relationship with Steve when they could just drop Black Widow in and use her established place in the MCU as shorthand (and Scarlett Johansson is already under contract) and hit the ground running? Pacing is important in movies.

1) Natasha doesn't really have much of a relationship with Steve at the beginning of TWS. The relationship forms during the movie.

Sure, she tries to set him up on dates, which sticks out like a sore thumb. But Steve apparently doesn't know the first thing about her, like, oh, that she's morally bendy.

2) All it would take to establish Sharon as a seasoned agent is showing her being capable in the same place Natasha is.

3) "the sense" would be that a. Sharon would be someone new, who Steve didn't know well and didn't know if he could trust, which is a major theme in the movie.

and b. Because then you have Sharon as a fleshed out character, which makes it easier to carry out future storylines with her and Steve.

But lets look at Sharon's treatment in the movie again.

Nick Fury assigned her to watch over Steve Rogers. This is obviously an important job to give to a SHIELD agent, looking after the "greatest soldier in history" as Fury called him. And she got the job. So obviously Fury has great respect for her.

And in that capacity she did nothing at all.

She acted heroically when Crossbones (a highly trained dangerous and more experienced fighter and one of Cap's biggest enemies in the comics) was trying to intimidate people in the control room into launching Project Insight.

So did a nameless SHIELD technician, and a room full of nameless SHIELD agents.

And then she heroically was knocked on her ass with zero effort from Rumlow.

Black Widow respected her enough to think she would be a good romantic partner for Steve.

If I walk up to you and say you should to vote for XYZ for president, and then I walked away, without explaining what party is XYZ or what is XYZ's stance on immigration, health care, security, etc.

Would you feel compelled to vote for him/her?

How is any of that a disrespectful treatment?

The part where she went from major character who is experienced and capable to a minor character who is inexperienced.

Given that the movie had Black Widow and The Falcon and Nick Fury as major supporting characters eating up a lot of screen time (and big stars playing those characters)

The "big stars" argument needs to stop. The Russos hired her. They can't say that they didn't want to spend time on EVC because she's not a big star, and it is ridiculous to invoke that poor excuse on their behalf.

Sharon got a good role in the movie all things considered.

"Good role" is in the eye of the beholder, apparently.

Sharon got a role intended for a bit character, by their own admission.

She literally got the same treatment as a character not intended for anything and never expected to appear again.

And she was set up for future movies going forward, to expand her character. Why would the Russo's set her up as a future love interest for Cap if they didn't want to use her?

Where are these future movies? They keep talking about Iron Man, Spider-Man, Bucky, Black Panther, Peter Parker, Black Widow, Spidey, and their arcs. Nothing on Sharon.

If she gets a decent role in Civil War, I'm guessing it was in spite of the Russos.

We do know that she isn't going to be a love interest in Civil War, despite it being in the script originally per Mr. Chris Evans himself. So on she has to wait for Cap4, if it happens, because Cap is busy with Hawkeye and Scarlett Witch for now.
 
Honestly, I'd have a lot of trouble buying Emily VanCamp as a hardened cynical morally flexible anything. I had to suspend my disbelief just to buy her as the agent assigned to protect Steve.

If someone like Charlize Theron was playing the role, it would be a different story.
 
What, pretty athletic women with soft voices can't be agents?

Well I had to suspend my disbelief that 5'2", runs slow and funny, non-athletic with poor physicality and no defined muscle mass, wooden Scarjo is femme fatale, world class hand to hand combatant, super-athletic, deadly assassin and spy.

If someone like Emily Blunt or Rebecca Ferguson were playing the role, it would be a different story.
 
*reads through the last few pages of the thread*

image_zps95iw8fz6.png
 
What, pretty athletic women with soft voices can't be agents?

I didn't say that, I said I didn't buy VanCamp as a seasoned agent. I think she would make a fine Skye from Agents of Shield.
 
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I didn't say that, I said I didn't buy VanCamp as a seasoned agent. I think she would make a fine Skye from Agents of Shield.

Her name is Daisy. Or, as Daisy's father would say:

HER NAME IS DAISYY!!!

Sharon Carter came across as a very competent Shield Agent. Her only slip up was losing to Crossbones(A Captain America villain). I don't see what the big deal is. Not being a Black Widow doesn't exactly make you some newbie recruit.
 
It seems like the scope of Sharon Carter's role has changed. Oh well.
 
What, pretty athletic women with soft voices can't be agents?

Well I had to suspend my disbelief that 5'2", runs slow and funny, non-athletic with poor physicality and no defined muscle mass, wooden Scarjo is femme fatale, world class hand to hand combatant, super-athletic, deadly assassin and spy.

If someone like Emily Blunt or Rebecca Ferguson were playing the role, it would be a different story.

I'm not saying Scarlett doesn't run in a funny manner, but her body has looked the part since Iron Man 2. What, were you expecting a body like Angelina Jolie's? That's even more unrealistic in my opinion.
 
I didn't say that, I said I didn't buy VanCamp as a seasoned agent. I think she would make a fine Skye from Agents of Shield.
They did say that Sharon was an upcoming agent and Fury trusted her and thought her capable of protecting Cap.

I'm not saying Scarlett doesn't run in a funny manner, but her body has looked the part since Iron Man 2. What, were you expecting a body like Angelina Jolie's? That's even more unrealistic in my opinion.
I'm aware that her body looked like that since IM2...
Which is why I mentioned that Emily Blunt or Rebecca Ferguson would be great as Black Widow.
 
http://comicbook.com/2016/01/08/exclusive-russo-brothers-tease-captain-america-civil-war-romance/

When we put the question of Civil War romance to the Russo Brothers, Anthony Russo quipped, "You mean, aside from Cap Bucky?"

Joe Russo added, "That falls under the surprise in the story as well, but we can only keep Cap romantically uninvolved for so long. At some point, something has to happen with that character, so we are very aware of his lack of romantic life. We want to keep dimensionalizing his character so maybe something interesting will happen."
 
http://comicbook.com/2016/01/08/exclusive-russo-brothers-tease-captain-america-civil-war-romance/


When we put the question of Civil War romance to the Russo Brothers, Anthony Russo quipped, "You mean, aside from Cap Bucky?"

Joe Russo added, "That falls under the surprise in the story as well, but we can only keep Cap romantically uninvolved for so long. At some point, something has to happen with that character, so we are very aware of his lack of romantic life. We want to keep dimensionalizing his character so maybe something interesting will happen."

If SC/A13 is assumed to be the DLI, then how much of an element of surprise exists in that?

As they say in the Superhero Code, duty before booty.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
Cool they are confirming that Sharon/Steve is happening in CW :woot:
According to the other interviews, they say they will take their time and I'm fine with that ! Slow building is great :)

I didn't think it was a confirmation but more like, "Stay tuned" type of tease. I do like the idea of a slow build for them, though. Just as long as we have a natural, organic build.
 
I didn't think it was a confirmation but more like, "Stay tuned" type of tease. I do like the idea of a slow build for them, though. Just as long as we have a natural, organic build.
Yeah, I personally take EVC's words more as a confirmation, than this. She talked about romance and how she will be Sharon Carter in this film openly. (Hah, if it's really supposed to be "surprise", then VanCamp doesn't know, how to keep secrets)
But when the Russos can't say something clearly and begin this "maybe yes, maybe no, maybe rain, maybe snow", I take their words with a grain of salt, because of such cases, for example. They had to know that time about Civil War and still they said: "It's highly unlikely"
[YT]YErStWa_nZ0[/YT]

Also, they said at the comic-con, that Atwell can make an appearance in IW. So, maybe this surprise is about bringing Peggy back to Cap. Sharon will help :woot:
 
Time-stone brings her to the present in IW, calling it now

wouldn't be surprised if they did that, Marvel loves them some Atwell/Carter
 
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