Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13 - Part 2

[BullMcGiveny]

The Russos are filmmakers. They are not concerned with competition. They let Feige sand co. Worry about that.

At this point, you guys are just projecting and making **** up.

But Marvel is. And they capitalized into getting as close to an Avengers movies as they can get.

But yeah, we make **** up. We made up M&M talking about Sharon being one of the things front and center in Cap3. We made up Evans talking about Bucky, Sam and a relationship with a woman being in Cap3, too.

 

[Ksb36]

I'm not sure how much you can "pop" when all you've got to work with is washing machines and getting knifed.

And with that in mind, and assuming EVC is that poor an actress, then didn't they basically set her up to fail?

Yeah, I think they did, unfortunately. I believe the character's potential and the actress were both basically treated poorly. But I also believe that a better actress could have made more of the character, frankly.

"Can anyone really say that she was an important character in her own right?"

Does she have to be? Was Peggy? Or Pepper? Or Hope Pym? Was Sam, for that matter?

Cinematically, yeah, I would say Sharon does have to perform some service to the plot, and also be interesting on screen. Marvel's casting choices have been across the board outstanding, so its curious to me that such a charisma free actress landed that role. Each of the characters you mention above, are played by really, really good actors, and each made the most of their roles. Peggy, Pepper and Hope were the leading ladies of their respective films, while Anthony Mackie is the bomb.

Again, I will go back to the casting process. They screen tested just about everybody in Hollywood for that part, and then in the end, it seemed like they just sort of "settled" for EVC. Not an auspicious beginning for her, which isn't fair at all.

 

[Mike5575]

Exactly. Adding more characters would only help the box office for the movie. With or without BVS, Civil War would still have been made. So, I fail to see your point.

 

[MbJ]

It does seem a little weird to claim the Russos hate Sharon and had no intention of using her, while at the same time claiming she was gonna be the lead in Cap 3 before Marvel got scared of BVS and decided to make this movie a crossover.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

It does seem a little weird to claim the Russos hate Sharon and had no intention of using her, while at the same time claiming she was gonna be the lead in Cap 3 before Marvel got scared of BVS and decided to make this movie a crossover.

Explain the disparity between M&M and Evans' comments and the end result, then.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Yeah, I think they did, unfortunately. I believe the character's potential and the actress were both basically treated poorly. But I also believe that a better actress could have made more of the character, frankly.

Cinematically, yeah, I would say Sharon does have to perform some service to the plot, and also be interesting on screen. Marvel's casting choices have been across the board outstanding, so its curious to me that such a charisma free actress landed that role. Each of the characters you mention above, are played by really, really good actors, and each made the most of their roles. Peggy, Pepper and Hope were the leading ladies of their respective films, while Anthony Mackie is the bomb.

Again, I will go back to the casting process. They screen tested just about everybody in Hollywood for that part, and then in the end, it seemed like they just sort of "settled" for EVC. Not an auspicious beginning for her, which isn't fair at all.

Sharon could contribute just as all others.

A lot of the actresses rumored denied having any knowledge, so it seems to have been just a rumor.

Is it fair to blame EVC or anybody aside from the Russos for that, though? They hired her, after all.

Sure, if she was an acting prodigy, maybe she would have made it work. But we're not demanding the same of others.

ScarJo had much more to work with in Iron Man 2 and she didn't pop. They still gave her an increased role in The Avengers.

 

[BatsDC]

The writers started writing this in 2013... Before BvS was delayed to May '16. So yeah...

 

[Ksb36]

Explain the disparity between M&M and Evans' comments and the end result, then.

Well, none of us have seen the film, for starters. Ultimately, we are all speculating.

Why do directors make any decisions? To make films tighter, more compelling, more cohesive. Maybe they don't like the Sharon character, maybe the actress is dull, maybe they couldn't figure out a way to make the character relevant in the story they wanted to tell. I have no idea.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Exactly. Adding more characters would only help the box office for the movie. With or without BVS, Civil War would still have been made. So, I fail to see your point.

Well, I don't own stock.

Them adding Spider-Man, Iron Man, Black Panther and every other Avenger would boost ticket sales, sure.

It doesn't necessarily mean that reflects on Cap himself.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well, none of us have seen the film, for starters. Ultimately, we are all speculating.

Well, according to everyone who has seen it.

Why do directors make any decisions? To make films tighter, more compelling, more cohesive. Maybe they don't like the Sharon character

Sounds likely. But many seem offended by the idea.

maybe the actress is dull

The actress they hired, whom they were free to fire. I guess no woman wants to be in a Marvel film and potentially kiss Chris Evans.

maybe they couldn't figure out a way to make the character relevant in the story they wanted to tell. I have no idea.

The writers seemed to, they're often quite good at writing. Maybe they should have listened to them.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

The writers started writing this in 2013... Before BvS was delayed to May '16. So yeah...

Curiously, Evans claims to have only talked about it with Feige circa Age of Ultron.

 

[BatsDC]

That would have been early 2014, so its possible that was when they first discussed it with the actors. If WS wasn't successful maybe plans would have changed.

 

[MbJ]

Explain the disparity between M&M and Evans' comments and the end result, then.

Things are in flux all the time with blockbuster movies. So many things change from early writing to in theaters that most movies have extensive "What Could Have Been" pages at various movie sites.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Things are in flux all the time with blockbuster movies. So many things change from early writing to in theaters that most movies have extensive "What Could Have Been" pages at various movie sites.

Yeah, like an entire script being rewritten to include Iron Man and Spider-Man.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Well, according to everyone who has seen it.



Sounds likely. But many seem offended by the idea.



The actress they hired, whom they were free to fire. I guess no woman wants to be in a Marvel film and potentially kiss Chris Evans.



The writers seemed to, they're often quite good at writing. Maybe they should have listened to them.

I gotta admit that was funny.

 

[Ksb36]

ScarJo had much more to work with in Iron Man 2 and she didn't pop. They still gave her an increased role in The Avengers.

Ummmm. Well, there are a lot of people who would disagree with you there. It was not a very good film, and SJ had little to do in it. But she's a star, imminently watchable and beautiful to boot.

And Joss vindicated the character and the casting in Avengers, anyway.

There's all sorts of reasons why decisions are made on these films. It's a highly producer driven movie making model, so why isn't Feige or someone else getting any grief about Sharon?

Again, Marvel makes a habit out of studying what is working, in these films. Hayley got an entire tv series with two seasons because she made a huge impression on the right people. As did Clark Gregg.

EVC hasn't impressed the right people, and they've minimized her role, as a response. They weren't fully committed to the character from the beginning, and she wasn't able to change anyone's mind. That's my guess. Whether that is fair or warranted, is another question. It just is.

 

[miranstarr]

Anyway, Emily is being interviewed on Twitter right now as part of the #CaptainAmericaEvent. https://***********/hashtag/CaptainAmericaEvent?src=hash

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Ummmm. Well, there are a lot of people who would disagree with you there. It was not a very good film, and SJ had little to do in it. But she's a star, imminently watchable and beautiful to boot.

Yikes. That's how it's gonna be?

You can't deny she had lots more to work with.

There's all sorts of reasons why decisions are made on these films. It's a highly producer driven movie making model, so why isn't Feige or someone else getting any grief about Sharon?

I used to blame Feige, but then the Russos said that they fought to increase Natasha's role after they came on when the script was finished. It had to come at somebody's expense, and who has a conspicuously small role?

Again, Marvel makes a habit out of studying what is working, in these films. Hayley got an entire tv series with two seasons because she made a huge impression on the right people. As did Clark Gregg.

EVC hasn't impressed the right people, and they've minimized her role, as a response. They weren't fully committed to the character from the beginning, and she wasn't able to change anyone's mind. That's my guess. Whether that is fair or warranted, is another question. It just is.

Your argument seems revolved around that it is because of EVC, who the Russos could do nothing about, for some reason.

Hayley Atwell was the female lead in CATFA, so yeah, she impressed.

Clark Gregg had four roles in phase 1, while there was a SHIELD, each gradually increased. So he managed to endear himself.

For other actresses, they'll get a decent role and are just required to do a good job. EVC apparently has to work a miracle.

 

[Mike5575]

Yeah, like an entire script being rewritten to include Iron Man and Spider-Man.

This is complete and utter bs. The Russos have said that Spider-Man was ALWAYS part of their plans for Civil War. They never had a Plan B, where Spider-Man was not in it.

Feige fought long and hard against Pearlmutter to give Iron Man a big part. Ike just wanted a small cameo for the character.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Sorry, if I'm a bit harsh, but Sharon Carter isn't worth crucifying the Russos. There's just too much awesomeness in Civil War for people to really get upset about.

 

[Anita18]

But Sharon's a spy herself and people in general know that spies work in the shadows and are shady.

They spent the great majority of TWS getting Nat to change her mind (literally from the first 5 minutes to the last 5 minutes), and it worked very well. I don't think there would have been time to introduce a new character AND give them a journey like that.

We got to know and like new guy Sam, but he didn't go through the kind of arc Nat did.

Except the things that make BW a foil were established in TWS rather than before.

They chose to focus on and emphasize it in TWS, but we've seen her do slippery things and talk about the "red on her ledger" in previous films. The audience already knows how she ticks. That's a shortcut they chose to use, to jumpstart her arc and push the film thematically, rather than use a new character.

I understand that comic Sharon fans feel jipped, but the directors do have to make choices like that, and I can see why the Russos made the choices they did. Their first priority is making a good film, and they certainly succeeded in TWS. Even though Sharon had a tiny part, it had impact.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

This is complete and utter bs. The Russos have said that Spider-Man was ALWAYS part of their plans for Civil War. They never had a Plan B, where Spider-Man was not in it.

That's poor planning, if true.

Feige fought long and hard against Pearlmutter to give Iron Man a big part. Ike just wanted a small cameo for the character.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

And you do? All you've got is what I got, what's been said and reported.

You're just taking every word they say as gospel.

Sorry, if I'm a bit harsh, but Sharon Carter isn't worth crucifying the Russos. There's just too much awesomeness in Civil War for people to really get upset about.

Crucifying? Aren't you dramatic.

If you're into Iron Man and Spider-Man and Scarlet Witch, that's your business.

 

[MbJ]

Yeah, like an entire script being rewritten to include Iron Man and Spider-Man.

Until someone confirms that's what happened, I'm gonna call BS. The only one saying it is you.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Until someone confirms that's what happened, I'm gonna call BS. The only one saying it is you.

So it isn't at all a possibility?

 

[miranstarr]

 

[Ms. Marvel]

So it isn't at all a possibility?

It's unlikely given the way Marvel works.