Sherlock - Series 4

[Boom]

I mean if that's the last one, so be it. But I for one would like a fifth and final season. It didn't really feel like a show finale, with how rushed the ending was. Maybe that's just me.

Spoiler

Loved the Moriarty stuff, though a part of me was hoping he had somehow faked his death and made a big return.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

They did a great job keeping the tension high throughout this episode, the moment Eurus takes control the episode is high stress until the very end, a lot of resolution to so many plotlines going all the way back to the beginning of the show. I definitely think we'll still get a fifth series despite them ending with most plot threads tied up, they probably just decided to not hit us with a cliffhanger ending for the fourth time in a row.

 

[antsman41]

They say that it can "work" as a clean end... if their schedules never align again, but they have the heart for more.

I'm putting chips on a 5th Series coming out within the next 5 years.

 

[antsman41]

They did a great job keeping the tension high throughout this episode, the moment Euros takes control the episode is high stress until the very end, a lot of resolution to so many plotlines going all the way back to the beginning of the show. I definitely think we'll still get a fifth series despite them ending with most plot threads tied up, they probably just decided to not hit us with a cliffhanger ending for the fourth time in a row.

Definitely, I was on the edge of my couch the whole time in suspense.

Honestly was scared they were going to kill Molly... the other ultimatum scene was intense as well, but I couldn't see them killing of Mycroft.

 

[Matt]

I had a love hate relationship with this episode.

On one hand, I think the ending was perfectly satisfying (though I found the P.S. voice over to be a bit needless and cheesy). If this is a finale, it works well as one. It's a logical conclusion.

But at the same time, I didn't find the episode to be particularly enjoyable. It was at times too tense, to the point where I felt more on edge from the episode than I did invested in the episode. It wore me down to the point where I had to pause my DVR to take a break. It felt more like watching Saw than Sherlock.

I also didn't care for what was done with Molly. It was needlessly cruel. And that's fine, it could've worked but the viewer also needed some resolution. Seeing Molly walk by in the montage wasn't resolution. She, and the audience, deserved some catharsis for the character. Hell, LeStrade, who had no role in the episode, got more resolution than Molly. As such, the character feels more like a plot device than a character.

All that said. I'm not sure how the show comes back for a fifth season. There is no way to top the finale. You cannot make the stakes higher or more personal. There is no greater foe Sherlock can face. The only way to top it is to actually bring Moriarty back from the dead and to do it randomly after three years of speculation regarding "Did ya miss me?" would fee anticlimactic. So there really no way to escalate. Which may be fine. There is something to be said for three, unserialized, standalone detective stories as a season. But will it feel underwhelming? After a season of international assassins, a serial killer and a full blown Bond villain, complete with her trap filled island fortress, won't an unserialized season of detective stories feel underwhelming to the viewer?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I had a love hate relationship with this episode.

On one hand, I think the ending was perfectly satisfying (though I found the P.S. voice over to be a bit needless and cheesy). If this is a finale, it works well as one. It's a logical conclusion.

But at the same time, I didn't find the episode to be particularly enjoyable. It was at times too tense, to the point where I felt more on edge from the episode than I did invested in the episode. It wore me down to the point where I had to pause my DVR to take a break. It felt more like watching Saw than Sherlock.

I also didn't care for what was done with Molly. It was needlessly cruel. And that's fine, it could've worked but the viewer also needed some resolution. Seeing Molly walk by in the montage wasn't resolution. She, and the audience, deserved some catharsis for the character. Hell, LeStrade, who had no role in the episode, got more resolution than Molly. As such, the character feels more like a plot device than a character.

All that said. I'm not sure how the show comes back for a fifth season. There is no way to top the finale. You cannot make the stakes higher or more personal. There is no greater foe Sherlock can face. The only way to top it is to actually bring Moriarty back from the dead and to do it randomly after three years of speculation regarding "Did ya miss me?" would fee anticlimactic. So there really no way to escalate. Which may be fine. There is something to be said for three, unserialized, standalone detective stories as a season. But will it feel underwhelming? After a season of international assassins, a serial killer and a full blown Bond villain, complete with her trap filled island fortress, won't an unserialized season of detective stories feel underwhelming to the viewer?

These are all very good points...and honestly I don't know the answer to them. I will say, the show never quite captured the magic it had in S1 and S2 for me. S3 seemed a little too self referential, and Sherlock at times seemed overly quirky...whereas the first two seasons felt like a modern take on classic Sherlock, S3, and honestly this season as well, felt more like characters based off Sherlock characters rather than adaptations of them.

And maybe that's fine. At some point, given the concept, maybe that was the inevitable pattern for the show. But in my opinion, the best balance of drama, comedy, and faithfulness to the spirit of the original material while still maintaining creativity and a new spin on the mythos were the first two seasons. However, I will say I enjoyed that this season went back to a slightly darker tone. The more comedic twist in the first two episodes of season 3 always seemed a bit odd to me.

If they do more...I'll certainly watch them, but I agree that I don't see how they could top the stakes that this season went out on. Moriarty is gone, and they found a brilliant way to creative a villain with Sherlock's sister that was more personal than intellectual, (though she was still that) which was wonderful. What other angles of the Sherlock mythos are there really left to explore? Bring Irene Addler back....and...what? Possibly explore the idea of Sherlock trying a steady romantic relationship? I don't really see them going that "off book" so to speak, or how it would provide enough drama for a full hour and a half episode.

Maybe they'll just do a one off every few years with a fun mystery every now and then...which I would be happy to watch honestly. But I agree, if they do another three episode season, I'm not sure where there is to go from here.

 

[Angelus_Darko]

I loved the episode except for one thing that doesn't add up to what we heard at the end of the third season.

Spoiler

Inside his mind palace, Sherlock says that Redbeard was put to sleep.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Loved last nights episode. Absolutely loved it. Finales can often be damp squibs but not only was it tense but I also found it absolutely riveting and it certainly gave us the most enjoyable Mycroft we’ve seen thus far – kudos to Gatiss on that one but looking at Sherlock as a series the acting, directing and writing in general have always been exemplary.

Another thing - under Moffat and Gatiss Sherlock has frequently been peppered with Bond references and homages. Last nights episode was no different, in that Sherrinford looked like a Bond villains lair (Mycroft’s old office in particular) and even Eurus’ cell reminded me more than just a bit of a Ken Adams’ set from Dr. No (the massive round skylight with cross beams). They are clearly fans of 007 so I’m thinking that as it’s going to be some considerable time before we see another Sherlock series [if at all] I’d absolutely love to see Moffat and/or Gatiss work on Bond at some point.

 

[Matt]

These are all very good points...and honestly I don't know the answer to them. I will say, the show never quite captured the magic it had in S1 and S2 for me. S3 seemed a little too self referential, and Sherlock at times seemed overly quirky...whereas the first two seasons felt like a modern take on classic Sherlock, S3, and honestly this season as well, felt more like characters based off Sherlock characters rather than adaptations of them.

And maybe that's fine. At some point, given the concept, maybe that was the inevitable pattern for the show. But in my opinion, the best balance of drama, comedy, and faithfulness to the spirit of the original material while still maintaining creativity and a new spin on the mythos were the first two seasons. However, I will say I enjoyed that this season went back to a slightly darker tone. The more comedic twist in the first two episodes of season 3 always seemed a bit odd to me.

If they do more...I'll certainly watch them, but I agree that I don't see how they could top the stakes that this season went out on. Moriarty is gone, and they found a brilliant way to creative a villain with Sherlock's sister that was more personal than intellectual, (though she was still that) which was wonderful. What other angles of the Sherlock mythos are there really left to explore? Bring Irene Addler back....and...what? Possibly explore the idea of Sherlock trying a steady romantic relationship? I don't really see them going that "off book" so to speak, or how it would provide enough drama for a full hour and a half episode.

Maybe they'll just do a one off every few years with a fun mystery every now and then...which I would be happy to watch honestly. But I agree, if they do another three episode season, I'm not sure where there is to go from here.

I actually think that may be the best way to go. Rather than attempting another full season, do an occasional two hour episode every few years (if the writers and actors are so inclined). Of course, we saw what happened when they tried that with The Abominable Bride. The results were less than stellar. Though that may simply have been, in part, due to the fact that the writers tried so hard to tie it into a very complicated cliffhanger, while also offering the audience nothing to move the cliffhanger forward. A true standalone story, that is just a standard Holmes mystery could be quite satisfying. But again we hit the problem: after serial killers and secret agents and Bond villains, would a simple murder mystery feel too pedestrian for the audience? I'm not quite sure of the answer to that.

I do also agree with you that Sherlock became too much of a caricature by the end. I was rewatching season one recently and the character is almost nothing like he is in season three and four. It is a major case of Flanderization. I suspect it is easy to go unnoticed because of the long gap between seasons (almost makes you forget the specifics of the proceeding seasons). But if you binge the earlier episodes followed by the later ones, you cannot help but notice that post-"death" Sherlock is nothing at all like season one and two.

At any rate, I wanted to post this from AV Club'a review on the episode (which is actually a very good read that sums up my thoughts on the episode well). It perfectly expresses my distaste for the Molly Hooper scene.

One of the most affecting, well-acted scenes in “The Final Problem” arrives near the middle of Eurus’s elaborate “experiment.” In a series of tests seemingly designed to determine how effectively Sherlock has choked off his emotional life, Eurus forces him to make choices that will result in devastation and death. This one, though, requires no bullets or death sentences—Eurus forces Sherlock to get Molly Hooper to say the words “I love you,” and if he doesn’t succeed, she’ll die.

It’s an emotionally rich and nuanced scene, and features some of Louise Brealey’s best work as Molly. It’s arguably Cumberbatch’s best scene in the episode as well—he balances fear and anger with shame, sorrow, and remorse. Her refusal to pick up the phone stings. Her acknowledgment of his cruelty hits still harder. Her insistence that he say those words first, and his first forced attempt gives way to a devastatingly simple one that’s ripe with the aforementioned ambiguity these writers do so well, when they so choose. It’s a gripping scene with an ending that cuts deep: of course there was no bomb. Sherlock just wrecked that poor woman, and himself, for nothing.

And that’s it. No consequences. It hurts, but doesn’t linger. So what if it relegates a character, once again, to the position of lovelorn girl friday? We’ve got to get on to the next epic set piece.

The biggest issue with Sherlock’s typically brief fourth season is exactly that: nothing seems to stick. By episode’s end, Molly’s skipping in the door with a smile on her face; whether she’s arriving in response to a message Sherlock sent to a person unnamed, we’ll never know. There’s no price to pay for years of mistreatment capped off with a doozy of a phone call like that.

Link to Full Review

Oh, also, does anyone take issue with Moriarty being on the phone to little plane girl, considering who she was ultimately revealed to be? I have no problem with the use of a different actress [blackout](being as if it were all in Eurus's head, how she views herself may differ from how Sherlock remembers her in his fragmented memories[/blackout] but her speaking to Moriarty on the phone makes no logical sense and only serves to mislead the viewer rather than serve as a building block for the mystery surrounding the plane.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I actually think that may be the best way to go. Rather than attempting another full season, do an occasional two hour episode every few years (if the writers and actors are so inclined). Of course, we saw what happened when they tried that with The Abominable Bride. The results were less than stellar. Though that may simply have been, in part, due to the fact that the writers tried so hard to tie it into a very complicated cliffhanger, while also offering the audience nothing to move the cliffhanger forward. A true standalone story, that is just a standard Holmes mystery could be quite satisfying. But again we hit the problem: after serial killers and secret agents and Bond villains, would a simple murder mystery feel too pedestrian for the audience? I'm not quite sure of the answer to that.

I do also agree with you that Sherlock became too much of a caricature by the end. I was rewatching season one recently and the character is almost nothing like he is in season three and four. It is a major case of Flanderization. I suspect it is easy to go unnoticed because of the long gap between seasons (almost makes you forget the specifics of the proceeding seasons). But if you binge the earlier episodes followed by the later ones, you cannot help but notice that post-"death" Sherlock is nothing at all like season one and two.

At any rate, I wanted to post this from AV Club'a review on the episode (which is actually a very good read that sums up my thoughts on the episode well). It perfectly expresses my distaste for the Molly Hooper scene.



Oh, also, does anyone take issue with Moriarty being on the phone to little plane girl, considering who she was ultimately revealed to be? I have no problem with the use of a different actress [blackout](being as if it were all in Eurus's head, how she views herself may differ from how Sherlock remembers her in his fragmented memories[/blackout] but her speaking to Moriarty on the phone makes no logical sense and only serves to mislead the viewer rather than serve as a building block for the mystery surrounding the plane.

Yeah, I'd agree with that review. Overall I enjoyed the episode, but it resolved too quickly. The lack of resolution with Molly and how quickly Sherlock subdued his sister didn't fit with the rest of the episode. If this was or is truly going to be their final installment, it would have benefited from another 30 minutes to let everything really settle naturally.

And I agree that one offs every now and then may be the best way to go. And while it may not be as.... (to use that dreaded buzzword)..."epic" as the past seasons, I think it would be perfectly enjoyable. I'm of the same opinion as you that what held back the Christmas special was their desire to tie it into the normal show plot, a standard old school Holmes mystery would have been fine by me. And honestly, some of my favorite episodes of the entire series are the ones that are simpler but have a good emotional core, such as the first episode in S1 or Irene Addler's episode.

I do agree that Sherlock became slightly caricature-ish by S3 and S4, I had a similar feeling watching it that I did when I saw Pirates 2 and 3 and Depp's performance felt like the looney tunes version of what he did in the first Pirates. Cumberbatch never got that bad, but he certainly amped up the quirkiness as the show went on. He still felt like a filly realized character, but a slightly more exaggerated one. And who knows why that is, maybe it had to do with the long gaps between filming, maybe it was a desire to continue to make the show more of their own creation and more based on rather than adaptations of the Doyle work. I have wondered if the more comedic tone of s3 (eps 1 and 2 anyway) was somewhat of an homage to the old Rathbone Holmes films, which were much lighter themselves.

Regardless, maybe doing a one off every few years will tone back the show again. But even if it doesn't, it hasn't gotten to the point that I don't enjoy it, it's just no longer one of my, "oh my god this show is incredible" recommendations, it's just very good and very fun.

 

[AlluAllu]

[YT]/SxmZpLWh7Fc[/YT]

Imo Sherlock avoided flanderisation and instead had good development. The way he talked to what he thought was a child on a plane was compassionate. Flanderised version of season 1 Sherlock would have offended the kid somehow.

I liked past two episodes, but I was disappointed that show didn't deal with the aftermath of Sherlock murdering someone. No one cared that he did that.

 

[Marvolo]

Other than the god awful final running shot this was a damn good finale. I hope its only a season finale and not a series finale. It doesnt have to be a yearly show but they dont have to permanently end the show. In a year or two or three come back and do more episodes. Just make it an occassional thing.

 

[C. Lee]

I liked the episode. If there are no more made with Cumberbatch it's a proper ending to the series.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

didn't I read or hear SOMEWHERE that there WILL be a fifth series?

 

[Orba]

didn't I read or hear SOMEWHERE that there WILL be a fifth series?

I think its more a case that they would all love to do more but with all their schedules being so full they have no idea if or when they will get a chance to do another series.

 

[Matt]

didn't I read or hear SOMEWHERE that there WILL be a fifth series?

The principles said something to that effect, but only kind of, and not really. Everyone involved said they would like to do another, but also acknowledge that scheduling for this show is a bit of a mess (which is why it took three years to release season 4). Cumberbatch and Freeman are hot A-listers at the moment. It is hard to work around the schedule of one of the hottest commodities in Hollywood. Two of them, who need to be together in the large majority of the scenes? Its a logistical nightmare, if not impossibility.

It may happen, but if it does, it'll be a wait and require one (or both) of the principles to cool off a bit. I don't see that happening with Cumberbatch any time soon...especially now that he is a key player in the Marvel cinematic universe, which will ensure he has a pretty hectic filming schedule for, at least, the next 4 or 5 years. In his downtime, he may want to branch out and do some more adult work, award-bait, that type of stuff. Same with Freeman (minus Marvel, plus several TV gigs). I think it is just going to be very hard to get everyone together again.

 

[Marvolo]

If this is the last one for a long time Id still like him to come back and do an older Sherlock at some point. If we have to wait a decade so be it.

Tho that would rule out a recast if BBC wants to recast the way they do with Dr. Who.

 

[Matt]

If this is the last one for a long time Id still like him to come back and do an older Sherlock at some point. If we have to wait a decade so be it.

Tho that would rule out a recast if BBC wants to recast the way they do with Dr. Who.

Is the recast a possibility?

 

[Marvolo]

I havent heard or read anything about it being discussed by anyone involved with the show, but at some point the character will likely be recast. Im just curious to see how long they hold the character and the show for Cumberbatch and Freeman.

 

[antsman41]

Ahh... it would be so cool to see them do 3 episodes in 10 years, then a Chistmas Special in like 20-25 years. Seeing a 60+ year old Cuberbatch/Freeman as Sherlock/Holmes would be so cool.

 

[TheVileOne]

I would never close the book completely on Sherlock. In the current age of television, everyone might suddenly decide to pick up on it again years from now.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I havent heard or read anything about it being discussed by anyone involved with the show, but at some point the character will likely be recast. Im just curious to see how long they hold the character and the show for Cumberbatch and Freeman.

Honestly I think they'd sooner start up an entirely new Sherlock Holmes show than try to do Sherlock without Cumberbatch or Freeman.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I hated that they went with another pointless Mary video/voice over instead of actually following up with what happened between Molly and Sherlock.

 

[The Shape]

Color me disappointed with the finale.

 

[tanita_mors]

I think back when they confirmed that season 4 is happening, they said that Cumberbatch signed on for both seasons 4 and 5. Frankly, I think they all love to do the show and make it different every time so if BBC is good with it and they find the time in their schedules in the next 5 years, we will see either a special or a new season. They are a close nit group that clearly gets along and likes working together and they keep showing that they won't cave under fan pressure. Sure they will give a little fan service, but it's still their show.