Should Some Marvel Mutants Be Fixed?

[RockSP]

It's funny cuz it's true.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Making villains into heroes almost never works long term.

What about Wonderman, Hawkeye, The Prowler, Black Widow? Heck, Namor has been switching sides for the past 70 years worth of stories...


I think it just depends on how any specific writer wants to handle the characters...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There was no Skrull in the X-Men. Cyclops made a point in saying that there couldn't possibly be a Skrull in their ranks, or the Skrull would've seen them coming during the San Francisco invasion. The Skrull were caught totally by surprise.

Also, the story concluded with [blackout]Beast adjusting a sample of the Legacy Virus to only attack Skrulls. The X-Men then rubbed it all over themselves and let themselves gets captured. In order to stop the virus from spreading to the rest of their race, the Skrulls in San Francisco all killed themselves.[/blackout]

So if there even was a Skrull in the X-Men, they're either dead or will die soon.

What the f***? A**hole Cyclops I've made my peace with, but now [blackout]Beast is making biological weapons aimed at full-on genocide[/blackout]?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

What the f***? A**hole Cyclops I've made my peace with, but now [blackout]Beast is making biological weapons aimed at full-on genocide[/blackout]?

Well, it WAS war....war for domination of the entire planet.

Hank should get a medal, imo.

 

[Manic]

What the f***? A**hole Cyclops I've made my peace with, but now [blackout]Beast is making biological weapons aimed at full-on genocide[/blackout]?

They tried to soften the blow [blackout]when Cyclops told the Skrulls that he'd give them the cure if they evacuated their forces. A mind-reading Skrull believed him, and Scott was sure Hank would've had one ready. However, Hank (who didn't even want to use the virus) didn't have enough time to make a new cure. Hank's supposed cure was rendered moot when the Skrulls decided to blow themselves up rather than trust Cyclops.[/blackout] It was still an a-hole move, though.

 

[Dread]

What about Wonderman, Hawkeye, The Prowler, Black Widow? Heck, Namor has been switching sides for the past 70 years worth of stories...


I think it just depends on how any specific writer wants to handle the characters...

Namor began as an anti-hero and that remains to this day.

Hawkeye and Prowler were not villains for very long. Black Widow was for longer than those two, but she shifted very early in her published career. It wasn't decades worth of material like Sandman or Juggernaut, which is probably why it was the hardest to make work. Even Venom had been going a good 5 years or so before the "lethal protector" kick started happening.

 

[GyLocke]

Cyclops: "I hate you, Charles! I used to look up to you as a morally righteous role model, but it turns out you've done horrible things, like make us forget people who died! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to send Wolverine on a mission to assassinate my only son."

That's not fair. Cyclops only began his rule of terror after decimation. The species can become extinct in a bus crash. It was time to man the **** up. Xavier's ways were simply not working. The man caused more **** ups more than any good guy in comics. Even before the retcons.
"Oh no, Evil Preacher is using my powers to kill mutant kind!"
"Oh no, my evil side is destroying the world! The heroes are in a blue sphere now!"
"Oh no, my Evil psychic twin sister-parasite killed all the mutants!"

Age of Apocalypse was ********. If someone killed Xavier in the crib, the 616 would be mutant utopia.

 

[Manic]

Xavier was a mixed bag of successes and failures. His forming of the X-Men was sheer brilliance, but he really had no clue how to conduct business with those kids in tow.

If Charles Xavier really want to make a difference, he would've taken those millions of dollars he used to trick out his mansion, and bribed every man and woman in congress. Nothing says "please don't kill me with a sentinel" like a hundred grand slipped cautiously under the table.

 

[GyLocke]

Or you know, just mind-rape the **** out of them till people hold hands with mutants under a rainbow.

 

[Manic]

Nah, they'd eventually break free of their mind control without constant maintenance. Why else do you think powerful psychic villains haven't tried to control the government?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it WAS war....war for domination of the entire planet.

Hank should get a medal, imo.

Big fan of the wholesale slaughter of entire species, are you?

Ugh, now every time I look at Beast I'm gonna see Dr. Mengele.

 

[El Bastardo]

There aren't many flaws to a plan involving the wholesale slaughter of an entire species.

 

[chamber-music]

I think most people are irritated by the Kyle & Yost slaughter spree on NEW X-MEN, not THE 198, which they didn't write (I believe).

Basically, a pair of other writers had relaunched NEW MUTANTS and it merged into ACADEMY X and so forth. It had a sprawling teen cast and was akin to "X-Men as Hogwarts" only with more teen soap and less action. It may have been akin to X-FORCE by the late 90's before Milligan got aboard and turned it into X-STATIX. It needed a kick in the rear to move things in the drama department up a notch.

Kyle and Yost got aboard and instead of a kick in the rear, they gave it an atomic bomb to the face. While M-Day gutted the book by depowering half the cast, Yost & Kyle's brilliant idea was to make the stakes higher by killing off supporting characters left and right, then mutilating the rest. What they failed to understand is that simply made it a horror show where you roll your eyes every time Jason Vorhees stabs a co-ed, or something. The term "overkill" is too subtle.

Thank good its not just me who was tired of Kyle and Yost. When Marvel decided to cancel a bunch of their X-titles I was kind of annoyed (especially considering most of them came back making it pointless).

I liked Generation X and it just started getting intresting again once ellis took over and so I wasn't happy when got cancelled but I was intrested in seeing DeFillippis and Weir new group of New Mutants (I've always been a fan of the teen mutants from the orginal 5 to New Mutants and Gen X).

It wasn't high on action but it had some good character development and then just when it was getting going Yost and Klye show and kill a bunch of characters while the rest of them get depowered.

Its frustrating reading something where a new charater shows up only to be killed off 9 issues later.

 

[El Bastardo]

I liked Kyle and Yost's run. I suppose it went a little overboard, but hey, it was a breath of fresh air, too. Superhero comics tend to have no stakes whatsoever, and so it was nice to read something where a few characters got to bite the dust, and it wasn't a What If? or alternate timeline.

Yes, yes, I know, the deaths were not eloquent. That was kind of the (a?) point.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Big fan of the wholesale slaughter of entire species, are you?

Ugh, now every time I look at Beast I'm gonna see Dr. Mengele.

In the context of a Sci-Fi setting? Absolutely. Do you think the Skrulls were planning to take over Earth and have a tea party?

They were hunting humans for sport in the Frontline tie in.

This discussion reminds me a bit of the Galactic Storm event Marvel had a few years ago. Did you guys ever read that?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

There aren't many flaws to a plan involving the wholesale slaughter of an entire species.

Easy there Slobodan lol

 

[TheCorpulent1]

In the context of a Sci-Fi setting? Absolutely. Do you think the Skrulls were planning to take over Earth and have a tea party?

They were hunting humans for sport in the Frontline tie in.

This discussion reminds me a bit of the Galactic Storm event Marvel had a few years ago. Did you guys ever read that?

Yep. Are you talking about the split in the Avengers' ranks over the decision to kill Supremor?

What does the sci fi setting have to do with it, though? It's a war, and last time I checked, attempting genocide as a means of defeating your opponent was a pretty major war crime.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Yep. Are you talking about the split in the Avengers' ranks over the decision to kill Supremor?

Yeah. I thought it was interesting that Captain America, a veteran of a war involving genocide, chose mercy.

As far as the Skrulls though, i dont think following Geneva Convention laws was part of their agenda...if it came down to killing every last one of them, or losing fellow Earthmen to possible extinction at worst, or a life of slavery and being used as medical expieriments at best, for all my friends and family....? Yeah, i think i'd do it.

 

[chamber-music]

they should send all the unnecessary X-relatives into space not just Vulcan. Daken can go too.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah. I thought it was interesting that Captain America, a veteran of a war involving genocide, chose mercy.

As far as the Skrulls though, i dont think following Geneva Convention laws was part of their agenda...if it came down to killing every last one of them, or losing fellow Earthmen to possible extinction at worst, or a life of slavery and being used as medical expieriments at best, for all my friends and family....? Yeah, i think i'd do it.

One of the things that made me love Cap so much.

You're assuming that genocide is the only option, though. As Cap pointed out in Galactic Storm, there are better ways to defeat your enemy without sinking to their level. Sacrificing your principles to survive shouldn't be an option, as far as I'm concerned.

Although, to be fair, Cyclops doesn't really have any principles anymore.

 

[El Bastardo]

Easy there Slobodan lol

Et tu, Spoons?

Although, to be fair, Cyclops doesn't really have any principles anymore.

Cyclops rocks.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It just saddens me that super-fascist, death-squad-having Cyclops is now what so many people consider a great hero.

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't consider him a great hero. I consider him a better Cyclops, considering how wussy, sappy, and/or stupid (as well as other colorful descriptors) he's been portrayed in the past.

And, really, he's not that bad.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He is, though. He's two steps away from being an outright villain who's willing to sacrifice everything to ensure the survival of the mutant race. That's Magneto's territory right there.

He was at his best most recently in Whedon's AXM run, as far as I'm concerned. He was still a badass, but you know he meant it when he said "X-Men don't shoot people."

 

[El Bastardo]

But has he shot anyone? Have any of the X-Men shot anyone?

Bishop shot someone, and Bishop's not an X-Man anymore.