should thor fly or should he be pulled by his hammer?

[Vartha]

Dude, in no way, shape, or form would Ulik ever be worthy of holding Mjolnir. Creel I can buy as maybe absorbing Mjolnir's power and fooling the enchantment into thinking he's part of Mjolnir or something like that, but Ulik? No way. Other Asgardians have failed to lift Mjolnir, too.

I'm saying Ulik being Asgardian would make him worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir.
Remember it was to heavy for any AVERAGE Asgardian to lift. Ulik is the Troll version of Thor, the strongest of his race. I'm just saying it's possible the enchantment was aimed at Mortals not beings of the Asgardian worlds.
I'm looking at ways to explain those stories. It makes complete sense to me.


In MYTH, there's no Worthiness enchantment at all. A FROSTGIANT walked off with Mjolnir while Thor slept.

 

[Captain Marvel]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.

quick question what are all of Thor's known and accepted powers in the comics? i was just wondering cause he is a marvel character i dont really know all that much on.

I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.

 

[Kurosawa]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.



I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.

And from that site:

He can use the winds to hover and has shown the ability to fly without the aid of Mjolnir.

 

[Aeltri]

If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...

 

[Dragon]

I'm saying Ulik being Asgardian would make him worthy and strong enough to lift Mjolnir.
Remember it was to heavy for any AVERAGE Asgardian to lift. Ulik is the Troll version of Thor, the strongest of his race. I'm just saying it's possible the enchantment was aimed at Mortals not beings of the Asgardian worlds.
I'm looking at ways to explain those stories. It makes complete sense to me.


In MYTH, there's no Worthiness enchantment at all. A FROSTGIANT walked off with Mjolnir while Thor slept.

The whole worthiness thing is supposed to be about personal morality, not being Asgardian or following any warrior's code. In fact, Thor was long presented as being opposed to killing as well.

While I'll have to re-read the issue in question (Thor #139) I think Ulik being able to lift the hammer was because of a spell on the Hammer created by the being called Orikal, whose power rivaled Odin's. It was also because they were in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated. That was how the hammer was captured and duplicated.

As for Creel, he only held the hammer because of his assuming the properties of the Uru metal, and in that scene can only hold it for a few seconds before it returned to Thor. Creel lost the power immediately.

The actual weight of Mjolnir ceased to be an issue around the time of Thor's first throwdown with the Hulk. Obviously The Hulk could match Thor's pure brute force level. So that was when they explained that it was Odin's enchantment (which Thor had him remove during the fight) that kept the Hulk from lifting it. The Hulk does lift it during the fight once the enchantment is removed.

 

[Kurosawa]

If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...

As great as Simonson's run was, I always felt he had Thor somewhat underpowered at times.

 

[Deadpool876]

If Thor fell from way way up the sky, he wouldn't die, right? right?! What was that? He would?! But he's a god for goodness sake! lol

 

[Ace of Knaves]

No he wouldn't die, but it'd still hurt him.

 

[Vartha]

The whole worthiness thing is supposed to be about personal morality, not being Asgardian or following any warrior's code. In fact, Thor was long presented as being opposed to killing as well.

While I'll have to re-read the issue in question (Thor #139) I think Ulik being able to lift the hammer was because of a spell on the Hammer created by the being called Orikal, whose power rivaled Odin's. It was also because they were in the Troll realm, where Uru metal originated. That was how the hammer was captured and duplicated.

As for Creel, he only held the hammer because of his assuming the properties of the Uru metal, and in that scene can only hold it for a few seconds before it returned to Thor. Creel lost the power immediately.

The actual weight of Mjolnir ceased to be an issue around the time of Thor's first throwdown with the Hulk. Obviously The Hulk could match Thor's pure brute force level. So that was when they explained that it was Odin's enchantment (which Thor had him remove during the fight) that kept the Hulk from lifting it. The Hulk does lift it during the fight once the enchantment is removed.

Thor HAS killed tho and would be willing to do so if it were to save the greater good. I'm not saying he'd go out and kill just to do so.
If you go back and read the Tales of Asgard the basic idea back THEN was Thor had TRIALS so to speak, that made him Stronger until he finally was strong both physically and mentally enough to lift Mjolnir.

But like I've said I have none of the older books to refer to anymore. I was missing 83-86 and had a HUGE run up to the 200's......MAN I miss those books.

 

[Wolfman]

C'mon it's gotta be the Ultimates way. The lightning looks better then giant viking flying thru the air. Kinda like in the end of Ang Lee's Hulk, when he's fighting his dad, whose absorbed some electricity.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Ultimate Thor looks like a robot, not a regal, God Prince.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A simpler explanation is that they were simply retconned after the fact. I doubt we'll ever see Ulik lift Mjolnir again, after all. Whatever the case, it certainly isn't a matter of strength. Captain America, who's just a peak human, can lift it while the Juggernaut can't.



I suggest checking out the Marvel Comics Database...

http://marvel.wikia.com/Main_Page

...when you're curious about a character.

That's what I figure as well. Thor's powers hadn't really been set in stone until way into the Lee/Kirby run, and even after that he either developed new powers on the spot or seemingly lost or forgot powers he'd had before. The long and short of it is just that Thor is one of the most highly inconsistent characters in comics.

A good example would be to look at Thor in Jurgens' volume 2 run and then look at Busiek's portrayal in Avengers from the exact same time. Thor appears much more limited in Avengers because he needs to be scaled back to work within the team setting and because Busiek is pretty notorious for underpowering Thor, based on the comics I've read.

If that were true then how come he nearly plummeted to his death during Simonson's run? IIRC he had to call Mjolnir to his hand in order to fly out of the lava pit. He can command the weather to some extent but he isn't exactly like Storm...

In other appearances, his weather command has allowed him to control even things that aren't really weather, like cosmic storms, and it has on at least one occasion flat-out trumped another weather god's control of the weather.

If you really wanted to arbitrarily assign an explanation to it, I guess you could say that since Thor's body is so dense, the amount of wind it'd take to keep him aloft would be disaster-level and harm the surrounding area. But basically it just goes back to what Captain Marvel said: Thor's powers are retconned and changed by practically every writer who comes onboard.

 

[Dragon]

Thor HAS killed tho and would be willing to do so if it were to save the greater good. I'm not saying he'd go out and kill just to do so.
If you go back and read the Tales of Asgard the basic idea back THEN was Thor had TRIALS so to speak, that made him Stronger until he finally was strong both physically and mentally enough to lift Mjolnir.

But like I've said I have none of the older books to refer to anymore. I was missing 83-86 and had a HUGE run up to the 200's......MAN I miss those books.

I didn't mean to suggest that Thor wouldn't kill. In issue #193 he killed the Storm Giants guarding the castle after Loki had usurped the Odin Ring.

What I meant was that the worthiness thing isn't about the willingness to kill- but that one would not misuse Thor's power. Ulik certainly would. In Tales of Asgard, it was presented that after every act of valor Thor could lift the hammer higher from the floor.

As a side note, it was funny to me when in Thor#432 that after Thor apparently killed Looki after Loki'd mortally wounded Masterson's girlfriend that Odin was so infuriated that he punished Thor for it.

 

[Dragon]

But basically it just goes back to what Captain Marvel said: Thor's powers are retconned and changed by practically every writer who comes onboard.

It was pretty clear that Stan saw Thor as Marvel's big gun. Their equivalent to Superman. In Silver Surfer #4, the Surfer admitted that he couldn't beat Thor and around that same time Thor's energy discharge from Mjolnir sent Galactus running for his life (Albeit with an assist from some Aliens he was defending). That's why it so annoyed me to see Thor beaten so easily by Superman in the JLA/Avengers mini.

 

[Danalys]

i figure that if he can't fly without his hammer he could give himself a boost up before throwing it so that he'll go up and fall back to where he was by which time it would return.

he could be boosting to a different place and catch the hammer aswell.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It was pretty clear that Stan saw Thor as Marvel's big gun. Their equivalent to Superman. In Silver Surfer #4, the Surfer admitted that he couldn't beat Thor and around that same time Thor's energy discharge from Mjolnir sent Galactus running for his life (Albeit with an assist from some Aliens he was defending). That's why it so annoyed me to see Thor beaten so easily by Superman in the JLA/Avengers mini.

Yeah, but things have changed a lot since Lee's time. He also intended Thor to be at least as powerful as the Hulk, if not more so, and wrote Journey into Mystery #112 to reflect that, but later fights between the two have almost always veered in the Hulk's favor.

 

[Wolfman]

Ultimate Thor looks like a robot, not a regal, God Prince.

I'm not saying I want the ultimate Thor on this movie, just the way he moves around - as a lightning streak. Like this:

 

[Dragon]

Yeah, but things have changed a lot since Lee's time. He also intended Thor to be at least as powerful as the Hulk, if not more so, and wrote Journey into Mystery #112 to reflect that, but later fights between the two have almost always veered in the Hulk's favor.

I don't recall a Thor/Hulk fight that didn't end in a stalemate for one reason or another. In fact, what always pissed me off with the Hulk was that he's like the one hero that gets beaten. Over the years, Ironman, the FF, Submariner, even Spidey has been shown to actually beat him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

When did Spider-Man ever beat the Hulk?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Huh? When was the last time Hulk lost a fight?

And he has never lost to Spidey has he?

The Hulk vs Thor fights are more often than not, Hulk winning.

 

[Weadazoid]

When did Spider-Man ever beat the Hulk?

He can jump around him, he can land punches on him, he can outsmart him.... but physically he will always where down.


Thor can match Hulk Physically, except for the anger and strength dealio...thats why Hulk wins so many fights.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

No Hulk wins so many fights because the powers that be say so, same thing with Wolverine.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He can jump around him, he can land punches on him, he can outsmart him.... but physically he will always where down.


Thor can match Hulk Physically, except for the anger and strength dealio...thats why Hulk wins so many fights.

By that same token, Thor can fly and fire blasts of energy that scare Galactus. They each have abilities the other doesn't, but for some reason, Thor's are usually forgotten in many of their fights.

 

[Weadazoid]

By that same token, Thor can fly and fire blasts of energy that scare Galactus. They each have abilities the other doesn't, but for some reason, Thor's are usually forgotten in many of their fights.

That's because Thor is very rarely outmatched physically and it pisses him off so he is willing to throwdown with the hulk based on pure brute force.


Given.... When Thor had to Battle Sutur and was given Odin streangth...face it that version of Thor puts a beat down on Hulk, and Sutur and Yimir would as well.

 

[Dragon]

There was an issue of Spidey Unlimited (?) from a few years back . The story had gamblers betting on Spidey fights. Spidey is fighting the Hulk- the Hulk tosses a truck at Spidey. Spidey spins a web that catches the truck and sends it back at the Hulk. The Hulk is knocked out.

But back to Hulk vs. Thor The fights I recall post JIM #112 are Sub-Mariner #35 from 1971, Defenders #10, Hulk #255. All of those endes in stalemates. I know Thor fought the Grey Hulk in his own title in the late 80's but never read that one. I know there have been other battles in special edition comics and so forth, but I'm not clear on how those fights ended.