So, does ANYBODY actually like Ultimatum? ... at all?

[squeekness]

Finally, another ASBR fan! I like him because it reminds me of the golden/silver age combined with Frank Miller Sin City and Batman Year One/Dark Knight return story. On hand Ultimatum doesn't fell like a story to me but just Jeph Loeb killing characters left and right. I thought Ultimatum would be a more better story combining the events of Ultimate Origins, Ultimate Power, Ultimate 3s and some other stories but most of the Ultimatum tie ins are good with a few bumps. maybe if a better writer like Brian Michal Bendis, Warren Ellis or Mike Millar was doing the story it would be a little better

ASBR is a great read because it's actually not boring. The more I read the more I loved it. It was way better than RIP.

Speaking of which, are the events of Ultimate Origins gonna come into play at all in Ultimatum???

That would require Loeb making use of continuity.

So, no.

LOL, probably true.

 

[Calavera]

i wanted to bump this because...well...i read one of the issues...and that scene involving the blob was worse than anything i have seen Garth Ennis do...

 

[squeekness]

I dunno... didn't Garth write the guy being killed by a polar bear in Punisher? His head was popped off.

 

[Red Mask]

i wanted to bump this because...well...i read one of the issues...and that scene involving the blob was worse than anything i have seen Garth Ennis do...

Ennis wrote Preacher, right? He's conceived worse.

 

[Anubis]

Hell, the whole gerbil affair from "The Boys" alone makes that whole thing seem pretty tame.

 

[Dark Victory]

Hell, the whole gerbil affair from "The Boys" alone makes that whole thing seem pretty tame.

Don't forget Tek-Knight...

 

[Anubis]

Good God, Tek-Knight aka captain f**k-it-to-death!

 

[Dark Victory]

Good God, Tek-Knight aka captain f**k-it-to-death!

When he destroyed the comet in his "special" way I couldn't breathe. His last lines were hilarious, too.

 

[SouLeSS]

From what I've figured, read and seen, most people who hate it hate what they're doing to the characters. And that it's Loeb so it's automatically awful.

Except they're the Ultimate versions of the characters, not the 616. Pissed the Blob at Wasp? Ultimate Blob was more of a masochist cannibal in UU than he was in 616, so it fits the charactization. The writing is, for the most part, better than most things out. Dialog is almost always spot in for the ultimate character. The problem is, a lot of people don't read Ultimate Marvel, and yet will continue to talk about Ultimatum without actually reading it, or the lead-up's to it.

I like it. It's a pretty 'honest' take on what would happen if something like that happened. If it were a 616 event everyone would come out alive nice and fine with maybe 2-3 B/C/D listers dying and MAYBE an A lister. The fact that they've killed off some of the "heavy hitter" and A list characters, and some of them in unceramonious ways (I.E. Strange thinking he can actually take the demon god, and the demon god laughing at him and killing him in less than a page) that should have realistically happened in 616 ages ago.

I like it. Ultimate Marvel was all about "easy reading / not bogged down by continuity", and very quickly it became bogged down by it's own continuity and crossover events. So what do they do? Basically wipe it all clean and start over. Makes sense, and it will make a hell of a jumping on point for anyone that wants to read Ultimate Marvel. Much like OYL did for DCU's proper (easy jumping on point, not that they were good writing), I can see Ultimatum doing for UU.

 

[mre]

OK, but I still think the story is boring, because it is wayyyy too slow.
I would have been more content with a meteor hitting NY and a bunch of heroes and ppl dying.

 

[kguillou]

Originally posted by SouLess

From what I've figured, read and seen, most people who hate it hate what they're doing to the characters. And that it's Loeb so it's automatically awful.

Except they're the Ultimate versions of the characters, not the 616. Pissed the Blob at Wasp? Ultimate Blob was more of a masochist cannibal in UU than he was in 616, so it fits the charactization. The writing is, for the most part, better than most things out. Dialog is almost always spot in for the ultimate character. The problem is, a lot of people don't read Ultimate Marvel, and yet will continue to talk about Ultimatum without actually reading it, or the lead-up's to it.

I respect your opinion SouLess but i've gotta strongly disagree with you here. Loeb writes the Ultimates in a COMPLETELY different voice from Millar's original interpretations. I can appreciate a writer coming in and putting his own spin on established characters but when it deviates so far from the original voice of the character(s) its just annoying and disrespectful. Millar established a unique voice and motivation for the Ultimates. The Ultimates were very different from their 616 counterparts. BUT because Leob doesnt know the difference between 616 and Ultimate he completely changed it around.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's blatent incestous relationship....since when? Hawkeye is a homicidal *******....since when?? At the end of Ultimates 2, Hawkeye was depressed that he lost his family but he wasnt shooting his own teammates!!Tony stark is a typical drunk just like his 616 counterpart...boring! Thor all of a sudden talks in the old shakespearian language that 616 Thor USED to talk in.....since when??? Oh and i thought the wasp was Asian???

Look If you like Loeb's Ultimates stuff thats cool, i'm not trying to pick on you but...c'mon, do you REALLY think Loebs Ultimate characterizations are "always on the spot"? t:

 

[SouLeSS]

From what Millar did and what the characters are now are two different things. Spiderman started off way different than he reads now. It's called progression, and over the years you can see the Ultimate Universe becoming more and more grim, and the characterization isn't off but by an foot in the most extreme cases.

 

[random_havoc]

From what Millar did and what the characters are now are two different things. Spiderman started off way different than he reads now. It's called progression, and over the years you can see the Ultimate Universe becoming more and more grim, and the characterization isn't off but by an foot in the most extreme cases.

Sorry, but progression and suddenly changing things with no explanation are two very different things.
There is and was and never can be any rational explanation for Ult Thor suddenly speaking shakespearian, nor for him having the 616 hammer rather than his Ult hammer.

The writing quality between vols 1,2 and vol 3,ultimatum also dramatically dropped, with it having depth, drama and emotion along with the action, to it being as deep as a Marvel Adventures title but with buckets of blood thrown on it. Having some characters killed off without major death scenes, okay. But pretty much not a single death scene had any emotional impact at all. That's not making some kind of original story, that's just terrible writing lacking ability to elicit drama.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

yeah, I don't even care about anyone who died because, while it makes sense that a lot of characters would die in the disaster that is in the story, killing a **** load of characters is clearly for shock value.

The only death I honestly remember is Daredevil's, mainly because Spidey made light of it afterward mentioning how much of a dick he was. That's why I liked it, cuz Spidey and DD weren't even friends.

But yeah, I skipped Ultimates 3, but from reading Ultimatum, I can see Loeb clearly ****ed **** up. His Thor is the worst part. I guess I'm glad Nick Fury left the Ultimate U, since he was probably one of the best characters and thus did not have to be ruined by Loeb.

 

[Blader5489]

The problem is, a lot of people don't read Ultimate Marvel, and yet will continue to talk about Ultimatum without actually reading it, or the lead-up's to it.

It sounds like you don't read Ultimate Marvel. Anyone who has spent any amount of time reading previous Ultimate comics would see just how off the mark Loeb is in terms of...everything.

And even ignoring that, Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum are just flat out bad comics in their own right. Dialogue is terrible, plotting is all over the place, characters exist as little more than plot devices, things happen inexplicably--it's just a complete mess of storytelling. If you think the writing here is better than most things on shelves now, then you must read a lot of ****** comics.

 

[SouLeSS]

I swear, the one time Marvel sticks to the "change the entire foundation, nothing will ever be the same!" People still find a way to make it superflous.

 

[Kitsune]

It's much better in the original Klingon

 

[random_havoc]

I swear, the one time Marvel sticks to the "change the entire foundation, nothing will ever be the same!" People still find a way to make it superflous.

A lot of comic fans want change, but they want change that's done well, not crappy. BIG difference.

And I've read almost every Ultimate U issue that's been put out btw, so u can throw that theory out.

 

[kguillou]

Originally Posted by SouLeSS
I swear, the one time Marvel sticks to the "change the entire foundation, nothing will ever be the same!" People still find a way to make it superflous.

What do you mean man? The 616 universe's foundation is profoundly different from what it was like 4-5 years ago. With the exception of Spider-man and I guess Hulk, almost every other marvel character is in a vastly different place then they were years ago. The breakup of the avengers, the civil war, Secret War, House of M, the registration act, all those things greatly changed the foudnation of the 616 universe. There's a new cap, Tony's on the run, Thor is exiled, Nick Fury is underground, characters like ironfist, luke cage, spiderwoman, and ms marvel are actually popular . Heck i'd say marvel's been sticking to their "change the entire foudnation nothing will ever be the same!" montra.

 

[K.B.]

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's blatent incestous relationship....since when?

Since Mark Miller introduced them in the Ultimate Universe.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

It was only implied with Millar. Even a Scot knows his bounds

Dirty Loeb

 

[Blader5489]

I swear, the one time Marvel sticks to the "change the entire foundation, nothing will ever be the same!" People still find a way to make it superflous.

Bottom line is that Ultimatum is a poorly written story in its own right, and a complete insult to fans of the Ultimate universe. Nobody wanted to see dozens of characters pointlessy killed off en masse. "Marvel is finally sticking to their 'nothing will ever be the same' line" is not an argument.

 

[Red Mask]

I don't know. The Ultimate universe basically was about everybody having their cake and eating it.

 

[random_havoc]

I don't know. The Ultimate universe basically was about everybody having their cake and eating it.

Elaborate

 

[hippie_hunter]

From what Millar did and what the characters are now are two different things. Spiderman started off way different than he reads now. It's called progression, and over the years you can see the Ultimate Universe becoming more and more grim, and the characterization isn't off but by an foot in the most extreme cases.

But there is a reason for progression to take place. The reason why we see the 616 Iron Man, Spider-Man, and Thor act the way they do now is because of the various events that have happened throughout their lives. The changes Loeb brought upon the Ultimate Universe were often brought upon drastically and no explanation whatsoever. The Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver relationship is understandable because Millar subtly implied it. But the rest were sudden, dramatic changes that had no chance to progress into what they are.

Why does Ultimate Thor have 616 Thor's hammer? Why did Ultimate Hawkeye adopt that ridiculous costume? Why is Ultimate Valkyrie suddenly competent? Why did Ultimate Captain America impersonate Ultimate Black Panther? They didn't show what led up to those things, they just happened. That is not progression.