The Amazing Spider-Man So now we've seen both, which was the best?

[Fox]

Finally, despite of whether or not you thought TASM was a good or bad movie, I think we can all agree that a sequel to TASM has far more potential than a sequel to SM1 ever did not only because it's more like the comics but also due to the building blocks TASM had set up.

I COMPLETELY agree with this. I was actually just writing about this earlier today.

Also for anyone who's been reading them I just put up my latest post comparing the Raimi and Webb films, this time comparing Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane.

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/11/gwen-stacy-vs-mary-jane-babe-edition.html

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

Oh Lawd I disagree so much...

 

[Doc Ock]

Spider-Man 2 is my favorite Spidey film so far, but I do agree the potential of the sequel to TASM is very high. Watching TASM for the first time I grew more and more excited at the possibilities likely to be presented in the sequel. I think TASM2 has the potential of being the best Spider-Man film so far if done right.

 

[Fox]

Spider-Man 2 is my favorite Spidey film so far, but I do agree the potential of the sequel to TASM is very high. Watching TASM for the first time I grew more and more excited at the possibilities likely to be presented in the sequel. I think TASM2 has the potential of being the best Spider-Man film so far if done right.

Yup. Obviously there's always a chance that Webb will screw it all up, but the building blocks in this film lend themselves to a much higher potential. Here's hoping he pulls it off.

Oh Lawd I disagree so much...

On which point do you disagree?

 

[Indy Flash]

Webb's Spiderman.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Then you must have hated Selina Kyle's costume

Who can hate a women in tights?
And Selina Kyle wasnt actually a Villian,so the point doesnt stand

And...I wasn't speaking on armor either. There is other material one could use without being latex and be thinner than armor and actually look like Green Goblin in the comics.

Maybe in TASM3

So once more, you think someone with a hobby is out of character. You're right, that is your opinion, but I'm sure no one would have such a silly opinion as that. Anyone could have a hobby and having a fascination over folklore is just that, it's only when taking the serum would Norman go a step too far and actually become a goblin-esque character.

But the focus was never supposed to be that
It was his obsession with his work and his relationship with his son and Peter.

And you're getting obsession and having a hobby mixed up. Norman can only have a HOBBY of understanding folklore as someone who's into the tales from the Grimm Brothers for example rather than some obsession at first.

Never heard of a scientist having interests like that

To keep the pain at bay by using medicine to be inhaled through the mask from small chambers storing the medicine at the sides of Bane's mask that goes through the small pipelines or whatever they're called.

Pain from what?

And Raimi's Goblin only looks like a goblin neck up. Otherwise, he looks like he's wearing a pilot's outfit and he is.

And whats wrong with that?
He looks a lot more like a Goblin than Ultimate Goblin ever did
What part of this looks like a Goblin? http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/3/3f/Ultimategoblin-markbagley.jpg

So the point of the SWAT lizards was just to set an example. Pretty awesome, not. It's useless for Lizard to make an example out of an entire SWAT team. As I've said before, this could have happened to just one person, say Martha Connors or Billy and then Lizard trying to test out on the entire city which fails. Turning the SWAT team into lizards and only seeing them after the cure is released was not a great idea. The SWAT team became forgettable and when they finally appear again, it's more like "Oh, yah, I forgot about those guys." That's why at least they would've meant something if Spider-Man had to fight them.

Agree to that,I wanted Spider-man to fight em

So you're now contradicting yourself when you say we only saw it through Spidey's eyes and the news?

You say we didnt see people rushing when infact we did
You got even get my point about POV
There was no character main character on the streets like Rachel Dawes was in BB so we could only see that through the roof and TV and we did

Whatever the case, it makes no sense

It doesnt make sense to evacuate a street before shooting **** loads of bullets at a giant lizard?

 

[Spiderdevil]

Like Captain America's The Avengers costume? I really dig that type of material t:

I hated CapAm's costume in TA,the one in his own movie looked good though

 

[Anno_Domini]

Who can hate a women in tights?
And Selina Kyle wasnt actually a Villian,so the point doesnt stand

She was an anti-hero and on the thin line of villain and hero.

So now you're a sexist that only wants women in tights?

Either way, I never spoke about using latex for Green Goblin, so this is kinda a mute point, huh?

Maybe in TASM3

Of course, which could have still worked for Raimi's film as well

But the focus was never supposed to be that
It was his obsession with his work and his relationship with his son and Peter.

Osborn's focus could've been changed

Never heard of a scientist having interests like that

And you know many scientists?

Pain from what?

From the beating he took in the Pit that royally ****ed him up.

Did you watch TDKR yet?

And whats wrong with that?
He looks a lot more like a Goblin than Ultimate Goblin ever did
What part of this looks like a Goblin? http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/3/3f/Ultimategoblin-markbagley.jpg

Because it looks like a giant goblin, that's the part that looks like a goblin

Agree to that,I wanted Spider-man to fight em

Indeed.

You say we didnt see people rushing when infact we did
You got even get my point about POV
There was no character main character on the streets like Rachel Dawes was in BB so we could only see that through the roof and TV and we did

BB didn't follow Rachel throughout that entire panic scene; we followed other characters and even no-named characters in TDK. That's my point; Webb could have followed just random, no-named citizens.

It doesnt make sense to evacuate a street before shooting **** loads of bullets at a giant lizard?

It makes sense for the street to still be evacuated when the SWAT team are no longer making orders?

 

[The Joker]

it is like when people said tobey wasn't quipping enough when him and andrew had about the same amount of humor

I definitely wouldn't say that. There was a lot more quips coming out of Andrew's mouth in the carjacker scene alone than Tobey would say in an entire movie.

 

[Spiderdevil]

She was an anti-hero and on the thin line of villain and hero.

So now you're a sexist that only wants women in tights?

Whatever,She's not the main villian
I would've hated Bane in tights
Similarly I wont mind Shocker in tights if someone like Kingpin in the main villian and he is like a Hitman or something.Plus Shocker's costume has good scientific explanation

Either way, I never spoke about using latex for Green Goblin, so this is kinda a mute point, huh?

I am against anything skin tight
Some material like they used in the Daredevil movie will be fine though.

Of course, which could have still worked for Raimi's film as well
Osborn's focus could've been changed
And you know many scientists?

Whatever the case.We can all proclaim about what raimi should have done or should not have done but the fact remains that he gave his version of Green Goblin and the movie was incredibly successful.Hence it was a correct decision

From the beating he took in the Pit that royally ****ed him up.
Did you watch TDKR yet?

I did,but never got the mask logic
Heard there were deleted scenes narrating his origin..

Because it looks like a giant goblin, that's the part that looks like a goblin

Looks nothing like a giant goblin to me

BB didn't follow Rachel throughout that entire panic scene; we followed other characters and even no-named characters in TDK. That's my point; Webb could have followed just random, no-named citizens.

Nolan did it because he had to show the effect the gas was causing,it was necessary
Not the case in TASM,there was no gas,just simple evacuation.No panic per se,just congestion

It makes sense for the street to still be evacuated when the SWAT team are no longer making orders?

And there are just 6 SWAT officers in New York?

 

[LegendAssemble]

Spider-Man 2 is my favorite Spidey film so far, but I do agree the potential of the sequel to TASM is very high. Watching TASM for the first time I grew more and more excited at the possibilities likely to be presented in the sequel. I think TASM2 has the potential of being the best Spider-Man film so far if done right.

The problem though with the Amazing Spider-Man as stands is the way it's just kind of there. Connors is under developed, the parents are dropped from the movie, Rathas death, it's a good spider-man adventure but it's a shadow of what a movie should be. I mean say what you want about Raimi's films but they were much stronger movies than this one was.

 

[Fox]

The problem though with the Amazing Spider-Man as stands is the way it's just kind of there. Connors is under developed, the parents are dropped from the movie, Rathas death, it's a good spider-man adventure but it's a shadow of what a movie should be. I mean say what you want about Raimi's films but they were much stronger movies than this one was.

But that's where I feel the 'structural intent' (if you will) is different. Raimi's films were built to be individual films (certainly the first one was) that stand on their own. Webb's film feels like it's almost a pilot to a feature film sized TV show. Ultimately it comes down to what form of storytelling you prefer.

I prefer Webb's because I've always felt that Spider-man worked better as a serial character. When it came to Peter's parents being dropped from the movie I wasn't concerned or let down because it seemed to be a theme that was introduced with the specific intent of being developed upon later.

It really comes down to story telling preferences.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Whatever,She's not the main villian
I would've hated Bane in tights
Similarly I wont mind Shocker in tights if someone like Kingpin in the main villian and he is like a Hitman or something.Plus Shocker's costume has good scientific explanation

Ahh, so now minor villains can have skin tight costumes, but just not the main villains

I am against anything skin tight
Some material like they used in the Daredevil movie will be fine though.

That material can still be viewed as skin tight though. Not following your logic.

Whatever the case.We can all proclaim about what raimi should have done or should not have done but the fact remains that he gave his version of Green Goblin and the movie was incredibly successful.Hence it was a correct decision

Because the film was successful, then it means the decision for Green Goblin's costume not resembling a goblin was successful? Some more logic that I do not understand from you. That's like saying Batman didn't have to be a detective since The Dark Knight Trilogy were so successful. Well, guess fanboys should stop *****ing as Batman didn't need to be a top ace detective and didn't need other training besides the League of Shadows.

I did,but never got the mask logic
Heard there were deleted scenes narrating his origin..

There were scenes of him being trained, but you can understand why the mask is used and the fundamentals of the mask itself.

Looks nothing like a giant goblin to me

Looks like more of a goblin than what Sam Raimi pulled.

Nolan did it because he had to show the effect the gas was causing,it was necessary
Not the case in TASM,there was no gas,just simple evacuation.No panic per se,just congestion

So there shouldn't have been fear or panic just because of the gas wasn't released yet? People should only be fearful when something's actually going on and not beforehand? Lol.

And there are just 6 SWAT officers in New York?

Were there more then six SWAT members going after Lizard?

 

[Shikamaru]

I definitely wouldn't say that. There was a lot more quips coming out of Andrew's mouth in the carjacker scene alone than Tobey would say in an entire movie.

This .

Tobey was George McFly in a Spider-Man suit and had like 1 or 2 quips per movie.

The problem though with the Amazing Spider-Man as stands is the way it's just kind of there. Connors is under developed, the parents are dropped from the movie, Rathas death, it's a good spider-man adventure but it's a shadow of what a movie should be. I mean say what you want about Raimi's films but they were much stronger movies than this one was.

I disagree. I would argue this movie is better than the Raimi films from an objective and adaptation point of view. I find the tone better, acting better, character portrayals better, fights better (SM1 looks dated even for its time), the faithfulness to the source material better, and I find the story better as well because it is more connected (First 20 - 30 minutes (the origin) of the first Raimi film feel like a different movie than the rest of the movie because nothing after the origin is connected to the origin) and it also is full of easter eggs and things they set up for the future whereas the Raimi films felt more stand-alone. I also find that I am able to take this movie more seriously due to less campy and cheesy lines and moments (GOD, was the dialogue in SM1 cheesy as hell - SM1 is an ok movie but the dialogue is a major turnoff IMO). I find it far superior to the Raimi films.

I wouldn't say Connors was underdeveloped. He definitely could've been more developed and be a better character in general but he was developed just fine and turned out well. Sony said Connors/Lizard had a lot of scenes cut out because they changed their plans for the sequel and those scenes that were cut would've contradicted their new plan for the sequel. Yet another reason why the sequel has no excuse but to be a movie with the same level of quality as the Nolan films and presumably Man of Steel. It has to at least be on Batman Begins' level of quality. And before you bring this up like you did in another thread where I said this, a Spider-Man movie on the same quality as Nolan's Batman =/= A dark Spider-Man movie that is a clone of Nolan's Batman.

Good point about the parents being dropped. They did say the subplot will come back later but I do think there should've at least been something at the end of the movie that keeps the subplot in there. They did a good job of temporarily putting away the burglar subplot without dropping it completely by showing that wanted poster at the end, implying Peter is still searching for the guy. They should've done something similar with the parents subplot. Peter starring at a picture of Uncle Ben and his parents while he is listening to Ben's voice-mail about how he has to follow his path in life would've been enough.

Ratha doesn't die. He did originally though. That's one of the major changes they did for their plans for the sequel. He was originally going to die in TASM 1 but Sony then decided to use him for TASM 2 too so they cut out the scene where he dies in the movie, which is sad because that was a great Lizard scene and brought in more philoshopical arguments into the movie (you can watch the scene on YT). Yet another reason why we have every right to expect TASM 2 to be in the top 5 comic book movies ever made.


I think the main reason why so many people found TASM disappointing was because it was a good movie. I would rank it on the same level as movies such as Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man 2. I thought those 3 movies were good and enjoyable flicks but they could've been a lot better. TASM is on their quality, specifically on Captain America's quality (which I think is the best of the 3 Marvel Studios movies I just mentioned). I think the reason no one had a problem with Captain America being just good as opposed to great while everyone had a problem with TASM being just good as opposed to great is because it is Spider-Man. Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman have always been the top 3 superheroes in iconic image, popularity, quality stories, quality of villains, development, and all of that thus people have way higher expectations for them than they do for any other superhero (and rightfully so).

These 3 heroes have always been the ones to raise the bar in all mediums of superheroes and specifically in the movies. They've always been at the top leading the way for all comic book movies. Ever since the Nolan Batman films specifically, the bar has been raised ridiculously high and every future comic book movie that is a Batman/Superman/Spider-Man movie will have to be around that level of quality (once again, a Superman/Spider-Man movie on the same level of quality as TDK =/= dark clone ripoff of TDK). Batman is already up there and currently leading. Superman will probably get up there next year since the Nolan and Snyder production crews are behind Man of Steel. Heck, even Iron Man, who is currently the closest superhero to reaching Batman/Superman/Spider-Man level of popularity and level of quality films, is not too far from reaching that level. Spidey has to get up there too if he is to keep his status as one of the "Big Three" in the movies and in the eyes of the general audience. You can't have just good movies like some of the Marvel Studios movies have been as opposed to great movies when it comes to Spider-Man. So although I really liked TASM, I want a Spider-Man movie that I can really love and that would blow my mind away. Something that can be considered up there with TDK and Avengers. Sony'd better give us that Spider-Man movie soon for the sake of Spider-Man staying at the top.

 

[chaseter]

I like how you said 'objective'.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Ahh, so now minor villains can have skin tight costumes, but just not the main villains

If minor villians are hit men or cat burgulars

Because the film was successful, then it means the decision for Green Goblin's costume not resembling a goblin was successful? Some more logic that I do not understand from you. That's like saying Batman didn't have to be a detective since The Dark Knight Trilogy were so successful. Well, guess fanboys should stop *****ing as Batman didn't need to be a top ace detective and didn't need other training besides the League of Shadows.

Because heroes and villians are the same right?
I would say Nolan's decision of not making Joker fall into the pit of chemicals was correct just like Raimi's Goblin
As for Batman,people want their heroes to have as many qualities as possible from their comic book counterpart
Nolan's Batman and Raimi's Spidey may be perfect for their trilogy but not the best characterisation of the Hero

There were scenes of him being trained, but you can understand why the mask is used and the fundamentals of the mask itself.

Similarly you can understand Goblin
He used the pilot's suit and since he wanted to hide his identity,he just picked one of those mask displays at his home at used it
Still not a very good explanation though

Looks like more of a goblin than what Sam Raimi pulled.

Nope

So there shouldn't have been fear or panic just because of the gas wasn't released yet? People should only be fearful when something's actually going on and not beforehand? Lol.

You are not getting me
People panicked in BB because a chemical was ****ing them up and turning them insane.Nothing of that sort in TASM

Were there more then six SWAT members going after Lizard?

Probably were.
6 were sent him to shoot him down

 

[Anno_Domini]

If minor villians are hit men or cat burgulars

Because heroes and villians are the same right?
I would say Nolan's decision of not making Joker fall into the pit of chemicals was correct just like Raimi's Goblin
As for Batman,people want their heroes to have as many qualities as possible from their comic book counterpart
Nolan's Batman and Raimi's Spidey may be perfect for their trilogy but not the best characterisation of the Hero

Lol, nice try in trying to make your point, but you clearly said a character, if successful in a movie, is the best way to go. Hero or villain, it doesn't matter. You said what you said

Similarly you can understand Goblin
He used the pilot's suit and since he wanted to hide his identity,he just picked one of those mask displays at his home at used it
Still not a very good explanation though

He did NOT just pick up a mask from his home. How in the world did you think of that?

Nope

Yes

You are not getting me
People panicked in BB because a chemical was ****ing them up and turning them insane.Nothing of that sort in TASM

So only gas creates panic? Fear itself doesn't create panic? Fear as in being evacuated from your homes?

Probably were.
6 were sent him to shoot him down

Probably isn't an answer.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Lol, nice try in trying to make your point, but you clearly said a character, if successful in a movie, is the best way to go. Hero or villain, it doesn't matter. You said what you said

When did I say hero and villian doesnt matter?
I for one am a big fan of Potraying Heroes as they are from the comics and the Villians to be modernised and changed to fit the plot(not too much ofcourse) Raimi's Goblin and Nolan's Joker are perfect example

He did NOT just pick up a mask from his home. How in the world did you think of that?

Dont we see plenty of Mask at display at his home
I am not sure,havent seen the movie in a long time

So only gas creates panic? Fear itself doesn't create panic? Fear as in being evacuated from your homes?

Gas creates much more panic.Especially that gas in BB,you could see the effect it had on those inmates and even Batman.
You are being ridiculous if you think there should be equivalent panic in TASM

Probably isn't an answer.

There's a giant lizard,they would send more than a 6 SWAT members
6 to shoot him down and others to evacuate the area

And people are not stupid enough to go to that area again once evacuated,irrepective of there being remaining SWAT officers or not.

 

[Anno_Domini]

When did I say hero and villian doesnt matter?
I for one am a big fan of Potraying Heroes as they are from the comics and the Villians to be modernised and changed to fit the plot(not too much ofcourse) Raimi's Goblin and Nolan's Joker are perfect example

I am the one who said 'it doesn't matter' if you're trying to say a hero and a villain is different because you clearly said if a movie is successful then such an interpretation of a character is the "best" version simply because a film is successful, and that's clearly not true.

A hero can be better and a villain can be better. We haven't seen PERFECT interpretations of any comic book character, hero or villain, but at least Nolan's Batman was much closer than Raimi's Green Goblin.

Dont we see plenty of Mask at display at his home
I am not sure,havent seen the movie in a long time

So we see a metallic green mask in his home?

Once again, the idea that he just took said mask from his home is one of the most illogical things you've said.

Gas creates much more panic.Especially that gas in BB,you could see the effect it had on those inmates and even Batman.
You are being ridiculous if you think there should be equivalent panic in TASM

I am not being ridiculous actually because a giant lizard in New York should create equivalent amount of panic. You're ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

There's a giant lizard,they would send more than a 6 SWAT members
6 to shoot him down and others to evacuate the area

Yet we don't see this, thus this is only assuming

And people are not stupid enough to go to that area again once evacuated,irrepective of there being remaining SWAT officers or not.

'People are not stupid enough...'

Have you watched any CBMs?

 

[spider-neil]

Just watched the movie on Blu ray and I have to say I enjoyed it more on home theatre then I did at the cinema. I did up things that I missed with people sitting around me like when Spidey swings in from the bridge he says 'incoming!' and when he hits the bus after running from the cops he says 'bus'.

This movie for me is the second best superhero movie of the year (behind TDKR) I bumped it down to 3rd after watching Dredd 3D, but no, this movie is definately better than Dredd (imho).

 

[Anno_Domini]

Dredd actually made TAS-M move down a notch of my favorite CBMs for the year.

 

[Just one more]

LOL at this thread still going on

IMO, Raimi's SM takes it easily.

 

[LegendAssemble]

But that's where I feel the 'structural intent' (if you will) is different. Raimi's films were built to be individual films (certainly the first one was) that stand on their own. Webb's film feels like it's almost a pilot to a feature film sized TV show. Ultimately it comes down to what form of storytelling you prefer.

I prefer Webb's because I've always felt that Spider-man worked better as a serial character. When it came to Peter's parents being dropped from the movie I wasn't concerned or let down because it seemed to be a theme that was introduced with the specific intent of being developed upon later.

It really comes down to story telling preferences.

It's written to be part of a trilogy not to be serialized and another thing how is that an excuse. You can't say something is better if you believe you don't even have a complete story. The way it stands, without the deleted scenes its a choppy mess that serves no purpose. Look at Star Wars for example, each of those movies had solid arcs that were to a lesser degree forefilled even though we know they were going to be expanded upon even more in the future, giving us a full stories. TASM did not do this, it gave us a series of subplots, only one of which was satisfied at all.

 

[Juicy J]

It's written to be part of a trilogy not to be serialized and another thing how is that an excuse. You can't say something is better if you believe you don't even have a complete story. The way it stands, without the deleted scenes its a choppy mess that serves no purpose. Look at Star Wars for example, each of those movies had solid arcs that were to a lesser degree forefilled even though we know they were going to be expanded upon even more in the future, giving us a full stories. TASM did not do this, it gave us a series of subplots, only one of which was satisfied at all.

Debatable.
I feel that ASM was a cohesive film that worked in and of itself. It definitely was set up for a bigger story, but in the end the narrative it put forth worked. I think it could definitely be described as a complete story that's also a part of a greater whole.

 

[spider-neil]

It's written to be part of a trilogy not to be serialized and another thing how is that an excuse. You can't say something is better if you believe you don't even have a complete story. The way it stands, without the deleted scenes its a choppy mess that serves no purpose. Look at Star Wars for example, each of those movies had solid arcs that were to a lesser degree forefilled even though we know they were going to be expanded upon even more in the future, giving us a full stories. TASM did not do this, it gave us a series of subplots, only one of which was satisfied at all.

That's you're opinion that isn't a fact. The are plot threads that are dropped but other movie do that and are still lawded (like TDK). The bottom line for me when I was a movie is; was I entertained?
And with regards to ASM I was, even on multiple viewings.

The main plot thread of this movie is responsibility and that is carried through to a satisfying conclusion (for me).